Mets and Brewers talking Thor?

[MrTPlush]

Am I crazy to think Turang is probably our best trade piece at this point?

 

It is Turang and it isn't even remotely close after him. Then after that it is probably Lutz and Dubon...then it really falls off.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Am I crazy to think Turang is probably our best trade piece at this point? Hader/Keston are out. Seems like the only position player in the system with actual star potential. Seems like any deal for someone as good as Thor would need him in it. Still doubt we have enough to trump others. Turang, Peralta, their choice of Arcia/Dubon, Brown or Supak is probably about the best we can do and I doubt it gets it done. Plus we can't really eat a bad contract either like an LAD can do. But I'm not nearly as knowledgeable on the farm as many here.

 

I agree that Turang is probably the best of the team's tradable pieces, and is starting to gain some helium as a high-end prospect. I think Lutz arguably has more prospect upside, but he hasn't had that breakout season to put him on the national radar yet. So much depends on what the Mets are looking for. If they want pieces that are close t ML ready, guys like Grisham, Peralta/Burnes, Arcia/Dubon and Brown/Supak will have high appeal. If they want guys with arguably higher upside, Turang, Lutz and Ashby will hold more appeal. I personally think Ashby is going to be a stud, so perhaps I hold him in higher regard than I should.

[Brewcrewin07]

This deal should be so easy to get done...Burnes, Peralta, Arcia, and if they want another minor piece, so be it. Get it done, have the press conference. Easy Peasy.

[brooks_quichenick]

 

If San Diego really wants him, there’s no way the Brewers could compete with their prospect capital.

[KeithStone53151]

Am I crazy to think Turang is probably our best trade piece at this point?

 

It is Turang and it isn't even remotely close after him. Then after that it is probably Lutz and Dubon...then it really falls off.

 

In the minors, yes it's Turang for sure. I would argue Burnes/Peralta still hold more value than Turang at this point...and both are young enough with enough team control that they can easily be considered young controllable talent with upside. I'm also obviously not a scout, but maybe scouts would like the changes Grisham has made and could view him in the Lutz/Dubon category. Reminder he's only 22, I think scouts would need to like what they see though considering his struggles the last couple years. Maybe a team still dreams on Ray's upside, but unlikely. Also don't forget Supak, his numbers have been incredible.

[Brewcrewin07]

 

If San Diego really wants him, there’s no way the Brewers could compete with their prospect capital.

 

That's why you use pieces that are currently with the big league club..Peralta, Burnes, Arcia. Still young guys and under control, but proven major league talent. If I'm the Mets, that's what I want.

[KeithStone53151]

 

If San Diego really wants him, there’s no way the Brewers could compete with their prospect capital.

 

Yeah Padres could easily pony up 2 of their stud pitchers for Thor. While they clearly can blow us out of the water if they want to, we have enough to make offers competitive with what the Padres would likely offer. There is certainly a limit on how much they'll give up for Thor.

[Wahoo Maniac]

Am I crazy to think Turang is probably our best trade piece at this point?

 

It is Turang and it isn't even remotely close after him. Then after that it is probably Lutz and Dubon...then it really falls off.

 

In the minors, yes it's Turang for sure. I would argue Burnes/Peralta still hold more value than Turang at this point...and both are young enough with enough team control that they can easily be considered young controllable talent with upside. I'm also obviously not a scout, but maybe scouts would like the changes Grisham has made and could view him in the Lutz/Dubon category. Reminder he's only 22, I think scouts would need to like what they see though considering his struggles the last couple years. Maybe a team still dreams on Ray's upside, but unlikely. Also don't forget Supak, his numbers have been incredible.

Burnes/Peralta for sure have more value than Turang. Top 100 lists are mainly compiled based on scouts/teams opinions and Ray was back in it heading into the season. Sucks that he was injured in ST and then didn't say anything. Grisham, Nottingham, Brown aren't far behind Lutz/Dubon.

 

Quality MLB talent is and always will be the best spot in the system to trade from but we're still not landing Thor

[Brew crew 92]

Teams have their OWN lists, top 100 lists are for the fans to have a General idea who SOME of the better prospects are. Clubs prospect lists are done in real time, example would be, Grisham, who’s currently not highly rated on prospect lists, would be on teams lists, because they have scouts that have seen him play recently, teams know he’s broken out. Same with Rasmussen. We have far more quality prospects than public lists are showing,imo.

 

Thor is the type of move Stearns will not make. Injury concerns and price will keep him away, imo.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Teams have their OWN lists, top 100 lists are for the fans to have a General idea who SOME of the better prospects are. Clubs prospect lists are done in real time, example would be, Grisham, who’s currently not highly rated on prospect lists, would be on teams lists, because they have scouts that have seen him play recently, teams know he’s broken out.

 

This is a good point. The break-out guys are typically the ones who are traded at this time of year. Guys who are injured or are underperforming are sometimes added as PBNL types, but are rarely headliners.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Might be an initial conversation for DS to better understand the middling prospects the Mets are interested in, then switching gears and use those prospects as centerpieces for a Wheeler trade while leaving off the headliners. I know the Mets are a weirdly run franchise, but you don't make all the offseason moves they did last year only to trade away a power arm with lots of team control remaining. Wheeler will be dealt, no question about it - Syndergaard would cost too much in prospect capital.

[Madhawk23]

I suppose Syndergaard is only available because the Mets area franchise in disarray.

 

If Jose Quintana with 3.5 years of team control cost the Cubs Eloy Jimenez, Dylan Cease and others.

 

The Brewers don’t have a comparable prospect to Jimenez and trading Syndergaard for lower level minor leaguers signals the Mets are going to rebuild; thus they’d likely demand Turang, Lutz, Devin Williams, and a pitcher Bettinger, Ashby etc.

 

Jimenez was in A ball at the time of the trade. He was highly regarded, but not a top 5 prospect in baseball at the time. Cease had a good year coming back from injury but again...just was coming back from TJ and had serious command issues. The rest of the return was meh. I like both prospects and as a Brewer fan, loved the trade...but those prospects look better now than they did when traded for.

 

That said, I do generally agree that we don't have a prospects of the caliber Jimenez was even at the time of trade. Turang is close, maybe the speed/defense is enough to cancel out Jimenez tremendous power...hard to say. We do have pitchers of roughly similar value as Cease, but nobody with his combination of draft pedigree and upside.

 

My guess for Syndergaard, they want one of our two young pitchers and a couple more good prospects. Something like Peralta + Lutz + stuff. Maybe we get lucky and they value Ray highly instead of Lutz?

 

I beg to differ on your recollection of that Quintana trade. Eloy was absolutely one of the top 5-7 prospects in baseball at that time. And, I remember Cease being a Top 100 prospect as well. I specifically recall being shocked at how much the Cubs gave up for a guy in Quintana that was a solid SP with team control, but not anything even remotely close to a true ace. There was a small part of me that was ticked off that the Cubs outbid us for him, but that anger was quickly squashed when I saw that the Cubs had to give up a budding superstar in Eloy and a really good looking pitching prospect in return. No way did I want the Brewers to do that.

[brewmann04]

I sure the mets know what in our farm system and who can best help them. on the other hand we are talking about the Mets

[TURBO]

According to Jon Morosi of MLB.com, the Padres inquired with the Mets recently about the availability of Noah Syndergaard.

 

Morosi reported Tuesday night that the Brewers and Astros have both expressed interest in the 26-year-old right-hander, and now San Diego is apparently considering making a serious play. The Padres have a loaded farm system and certainly carry the chips to get a deal done, but it's going to be a high asking price and Syndergaard has been rather mediocre this season. That said, his career numbers are fantastic and he is under control through the 2021 season. The Padres tried to acquire Syndergaard from the Mets over the winter, so this new round of negotiations will come with some familiarity in expectations between the two front offices.

 

Source: Jon Morosi on Twitter

Jul 10, 2019, 12:47 PM ET

[TURBO]

So, if we deal Arcia, like so many here seem to want to do, who is our SS for the remainder of this season? Are you really willing to count on Dubon or Saladino to carry that load? We know what we have in Saladino, which isn't much, and Dubon is a total mystery at this level.

 

That is a bit scary to me.

 

I am soooo against trading Turang and Lutz, I truly believe they are our future, along with Hiura.

[KeithStone53151]

So, if we deal Arcia, like so many here seem to want to do, who is our SS for the remainder of this season? Are you really willing to count on Dubon or Saladino to carry that load? We know what we have in Saladino, which isn't much, and Dubon is a total mystery at this level.

 

That is a bit scary to me.

 

I am soooo against trading Turang and Lutz, I truly believe they are our future, along with Hiura.

 

I tend to agree with thie Dubon/Saladino part. Especially with Saladino being bad so far. I think it would be wise to gauge the market and see what SS would be available for trade before we consider dealing Arcia. If the Dbacks sell, they might have a couple decent options.

[pacopete4]

Braun could always return to SS. Probably would help him stack up some WAR for the remainder of the season.

[Wahoo Maniac]

Teams have their OWN lists, top 100 lists are for the fans to have a General idea who SOME of the better prospects are. Clubs prospect lists are done in real time, example would be, Grisham, who’s currently not highly rated on prospect lists, would be on teams lists, because they have scouts that have seen him play recently, teams know he’s broken out.

 

This is a good point. The break-out guys are typically the ones who are traded at this time of year. Guys who are injured or are underperforming are sometimes added as PBNL types, but are rarely headliners.

Of course the Top 100 lists are for the fans but they're not comprised based on opinions of whoever the writer is. It's based on market intel gathered from scouts/teams and what they're hearing out there. They're updated every 6 months I think so of course they're not fluid like internal rankings by each org. That doesn't negate the point that Ray being on it heading into the season means he actually is valued out there regardless of teams internal boards having him ranked 2nd or lower for our org. There's no way teams currently have Grisham ranked 30th for our system.

[Madhawk23]

Teams have their OWN lists, top 100 lists are for the fans to have a General idea who SOME of the better prospects are. Clubs prospect lists are done in real time, example would be, Grisham, who’s currently not highly rated on prospect lists, would be on teams lists, because they have scouts that have seen him play recently, teams know he’s broken out.

 

This is a good point. The break-out guys are typically the ones who are traded at this time of year. Guys who are injured or are underperforming are sometimes added as PBNL types, but are rarely headliners.

Of course the Top 100 lists are for the fans but they're not comprised based on opinions of whoever the writer is. It's based on market intel gathered from scouts/teams and what they're hearing out there. They're updated every 6 months I think so of course they're not fluid like internal rankings by each org. That doesn't negate the point that Ray being on it heading into the season means he actually is valued out there regardless of teams internal boards having him ranked 2nd or lower for our org. There's no way teams currently have Grisham ranked 30th for our system.

 

Yep - great point. I severely doubt that teams rank Joe Gray and Lucas Erceg higher than Trent Grisham and Drew Rasmussen right now. In fact, I've got to believe that those two guys alone are probably highly thought of right now among MLB scouts. And, Devin Williams is another example of a guy that I'm sure teams would be very interested in, but he's currently not even in the Top 30 prospect list anymore.

[pacopete4]

Might come down to a quantity vs. quality type thing or vice versa depending on what the Mets are looking at doing going forward. If they want a total tear down, they might be looking at multiple lower level guys over valuing 1-2 guys that are doing well at the AAA level.

[Brew crew 92]

Teams have their OWN lists, top 100 lists are for the fans to have a General idea who SOME of the better prospects are. Clubs prospect lists are done in real time, example would be, Grisham, who’s currently not highly rated on prospect lists, would be on teams lists, because they have scouts that have seen him play recently, teams know he’s broken out.

 

This is a good point. The break-out guys are typically the ones who are traded at this time of year. Guys who are injured or are underperforming are sometimes added as PBNL types, but are rarely headliners.

Of course the Top 100 lists are for the fans but they're not comprised based on opinions of whoever the writer is. It's based on market intel gathered from scouts/teams and what they're hearing out there. They're updated every 6 months I think so of course they're not fluid like internal rankings by each org. That doesn't negate the point that Ray being on it heading into the season means he actually is valued out there regardless of teams internal boards having him ranked 2nd or lower for our org. There's no way teams currently have Grisham ranked 30th for our system.

 

Right, but because their not fluid, and lag way, way longer than they should imo, it makes them inaccurate for that reason alone.

[Wahoo Maniac]

So, if we deal Arcia, like so many here seem to want to do, who is our SS for the remainder of this season? Are you really willing to count on Dubon or Saladino to carry that load? We know what we have in Saladino, which isn't much, and Dubon is a total mystery at this level.

 

That is a bit scary to me.

 

I am soooo against trading Turang and Lutz, I truly believe they are our future, along with Hiura.

Yes, I'm more than willing to let Dubon start the rest of the season. He's about to turn 25 and he's mature. The team clearly believes in his ability since he was replacing Arcia at SS last May before the injury. They wanted him back in AAA this year to regain his footing after the injury. He's been grading out at 55 hit, 60 run, 55 arm, 55 field since 2016 when he was in A+. SINCE 2016. He's a pure hitter. And he's improved his power annually while maturing physically over that span. Never once has any scouting report ever said he might have to move off SS. Everything has always been quick hands, quick feet, solid arm, steady defender. In case you're wondering those grades are the exact same as Turang (also now in A+), who everyone is drooling over.

 

Right now, Arcia is a dime a dozen performer who's inconsistent. I wish that wasn't the case because he's more talented than that but it's reality. I guess I find two things strange: people thinking it's super difficult to replace average defense and below average offense at the SS position and people overlooking Dubon while he grades out like a borderline Top 100 over the past several years with the performance to match it.

[KeithStone53151]

So, if we deal Arcia, like so many here seem to want to do, who is our SS for the remainder of this season? Are you really willing to count on Dubon or Saladino to carry that load? We know what we have in Saladino, which isn't much, and Dubon is a total mystery at this level.

 

That is a bit scary to me.

 

I am soooo against trading Turang and Lutz, I truly believe they are our future, along with Hiura.

 

Right now, Arcia is a dime a dozen performer who's inconsistent. I wish that wasn't the case because he's more talented than that but it's reality. I guess I find two things strange: people thinking it's super difficult to replace average defense and below average offense at the SS position and people overlooking Dubon while he grades out like a borderline Top 100 over the past several years with the performance to match it.

 

While I generally agree with you that Arcia is not THAT valuable and very replaceable, and that Dubon is underrated...I think you don't give Arcia's defense enough credit. He needs to be a bit more consistent, but he's a heck of a defender. Him being a strong defender helps cover for a mediocre 2b and limited range at 3b. Again, I still agree with you that I think Arcia is fairly replaceable. If we traded Arcia, we definitely should be looking at someone better than Saladino at the utility spot that can play SS. Frankly, we should be looking to improve that spot regardless...but I'd add urgency if we trade Arcia in case Dubon struggles out of the gate.

[Warning Track Power]

Orlando Arcia should not be the reason we do not acquire Thor. Assuming the rest of the deal is reasonable (meaning it's not Hiura, Burnes, Ray & Arcia), if Arcia is the key piece to completing a deal, you make it.

[rickh150]

Would Arcia, Burnes, and Houser get it done?