Is it time to consider moving Hader

[MrTPlush]

Hader is crucial to winning? He gave up 15 HR's in 75 Innings & couldn't throw strikes in the wildcard game.

 

Hader is crucial to winning in the sense that he has enough name recognition and past accolades that he could be a key portion of a trade that improves the ball club.

 

So you come to conclusions based on a single stat and one game. That's a pretty weak argument.

[pacopete4]

Brewers: Hader- 66.5

Dodgers: May- 54.7, Gray- 11.5 = 66.2

 

According to that site, it is about as even as you get.

[RollieTime]

I think the Brewers should hold out and demand Lux otherwise no deal. Dodgers will be desperate if they lose once again this year. I think if you play your cards right, you can pry someone like Lux from them. They don’t need him in their lineup right now like they need a shut down reliever. Plus they can just go out and drop $15 million on a SS or 2B to replace him at the drop of a hat.

[brewers888]

I think one of these teams that falls short this year especially if its LA again is going to be desperate enough to give what it takes to get Hader. To me that means a super elite every day prospect like Lux may just be in play and its the only way I am moving Hader. I am actually higher on our pitching situation than I am on our lineup and would be more than happy to get Lux in a deal for Hader.

 

We are probably losing Grandal and possibly Moose so offense is going to have to be a priority. Fact is our lineup didn't produce nearly enough for a team that had Yelich, Hiura, Grandal, and Moustakas so getting someone like Lux would be a big help.

 

If we aren't receiving a super elite prospect we should just hold on to Hader. If a rental reliever was able to get a prospect like Gleybor Torres in a deal I don't see why we can't possibly get Lux for Hader if they fall short again. If it turns out that Hader doesn't have that type of value we still have an elite reliever for the long term which isn't a bad outcome at all.

[tmwiese55]

My thought is LAD is going to avoid paying Seager big money when he comes up soon and have Lux take over for him and that's why they wouldn't give Lux up for Vasquez.

 

But really if Lux is really as good as he looks then there really isn't too many offers anyone can give them to make them give him up.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I think the Brewers should hold out and demand Lux otherwise no deal. Dodgers will be desperate if they lose once again this year. I think if you play your cards right, you can pry someone like Lux from them. They don’t need him in their lineup right now like they need a shut down reliever. Plus they can just go out and drop $15 million on a SS or 2B to replace him at the drop of a hat.

 

Dodgers just as easily can go out and drop $15 million per year on the top reliever on the FA market this offseason. Money is no object to that team. If they deal off high value players for Hader, it's because they see him as significantly better than anything they can acquire with only money.

[tmwiese55]

I think the Brewers should hold out and demand Lux otherwise no deal. Dodgers will be desperate if they lose once again this year. I think if you play your cards right, you can pry someone like Lux from them. They don’t need him in their lineup right now like they need a shut down reliever. Plus they can just go out and drop $15 million on a SS or 2B to replace him at the drop of a hat.

 

Dodgers just as easily can go out and drop $15 million per year on the top reliever on the FA market this offseason. Money is no object to that team. If they deal off high value players for Hader, it's because they see him as significantly better than anything they can acquire with only money.

 

Yea a quick glance through LAD payroll on Spotrac and it seems to me they clear off a lot of their dead contracts this year and should be in a very good financial position. Crazy how well run they've been. Must be nice to be an LA and Houston fan these days, loaded major league teams combined with loaded farms (though Houston's farm gave up a lot for Greinke).

[RollieTime]

I think the Brewers should hold out and demand Lux otherwise no deal. Dodgers will be desperate if they lose once again this year. I think if you play your cards right, you can pry someone like Lux from them. They don’t need him in their lineup right now like they need a shut down reliever. Plus they can just go out and drop $15 million on a SS or 2B to replace him at the drop of a hat.

 

Dodgers just as easily can go out and drop $15 million per year on the top reliever on the FA market this offseason. Money is no object to that team. If they deal off high value players for Hader, it's because they see him as significantly better than anything they can acquire with only money.

 

The difference there though is Hader is the cream of the crop for relief pitchers. They could sign a great free agent reliever and still not get a guy as productive and shutdown as Hader. I do understand your point though. That definitely is an option they could explore and I’m sure they will.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

That was his point. They could buy anyone, and if they choose Hader it's because he's better than what they can buy.

[rickh150]

Hader through a minor fit about his salary this offseason. It will be slightly more in 2020, but still below 1 million without arbitration. This uncomfortable situation is likely going to pop up again. It will be interesting to see if this prompts a multi-year contract to buy out some free agency years, saving the team a little in the long run, or if this prompts some trade rumors.

[PeaveyFury]

Minor is probably the right word to emphasize, as he was more disappointed that the Brewers and he didn't discuss a longer-term contract than anything, it seemed. As you said, it'll be interesting to see how that's handled this year when he's still got one very cheap year left.

[sveumrules]

Hader is crucial to winning?

 

Yes, the reliever with the second highest Win Probability Added in MLB over the last three seasons is crucial to winning.

[PeaveyFury]

I am somewhat bewildered that people are apparently willing to move on from a cheap, team-controlled reliever that was one of the only useful arms out of a bullpen that was maligned almost all year otherwise. It makes no sense at all.

[TURBO]

Brewers fans don't like nice things. Every time we get a great player, someone wants to trade him for prospects.

 

Hell, people here even want to trade Yelich. Hey he's good, let's trade him for prospects rather than have a superstar player to build around.

[pacopete4]

Brewers fans don't like nice things. Every time we get a great player, someone wants to trade him for prospects.

 

Hell, people here even want to trade Yelich. Hey he's good, let's trade him for prospects rather than have a superstar player to build around.

 

But what if, and hear me out here, they traded Yelich for another great player?

[clancyphile]

Would I move Hader? Well, in some rare circumstances.

 

But it would involve the Dodgers offering Bellinger, the Mets offering Alonzo, the Angels offering Trout, the Astros offering us the cream of their farm system (a half-dozen of their top 10 prospects) or some similar circumstance that means the GM calling Stearns would rightfully be asked to pee in a cup.

[Oxy]

I am somewhat bewildered that people are apparently willing to move on from a cheap, team-controlled reliever that was one of the only useful arms out of a bullpen that was maligned almost all year otherwise. It makes no sense at all.

 

I'm of the opinion that:

A. Relievers are more volatile than other players

B. Elite relievers have more value to excellent teams than good teams, to good teams than mediocre teams, and to mediocre teams than to bad teams

C. The Brewers w/o Grandal and Moustakas are a mediocre team (with a poor farm system).

 

If we can get a C, 3B, SS, and right-handed 1B man/slugger then it makes sense to hold on to Hader. If not, it certainly makes sense to trade Hader--especially if we can fill some of those holes I listed with good, young, cheap players.

[Never Outhustled]

I am somewhat bewildered that people are apparently willing to move on from a cheap, team-controlled reliever that was one of the only useful arms out of a bullpen that was maligned almost all year otherwise. It makes no sense at all.

 

I assume people want to trade him, not cut him. Here could be the key to fixing the SS hole.

 

Relievers have a short shelf life, especially those who rely on deception. Trading Hader now might prove to be genius.

[PeaveyFury]

Then who is pitching out of our bullpen? By my count, the only reliable-ish guy under contract next year other than Hader is Suter, and we're hoping that his September performance carries over. The team had a massive bullpen problem this year, and trading one of the best pieces from that even if it fills a different hole is just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

[phnxcrew]

Then who is pitching out of our bullpen? By my count, the only reliable-ish guy under contract next year other than Hader is Suter, and we're hoping that his September performance carries over. The team had a massive bullpen problem this year, and trading one of the best pieces from that even if it fills a different hole is just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

I think the idea to trade Hader also would involve some trades for relievers and definitely a couple FA signings. I don't see anyone offering us his pricetag, but if some one does good relievers seem to be going for a much lower rate on the FA market these days. At least, logic would say those wanting to trade Hader expect other moves.

[Never Outhustled]

Then who is pitching out of our bullpen? By my count, the only reliable-ish guy under contract next year other than Hader is Suter, and we're hoping that his September performance carries over. The team had a massive bullpen problem this year, and trading one of the best pieces from that even if it fills a different hole is just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

Knebel and Pomeranz.

 

Much easier to find a reliever than a stud SS. If Hader fades, it will be those 2 even if Hader is here.

[PeaveyFury]

Knebel and Pomeranz.

 

Much easier to find a reliever than a stud SS. If Hader fades, it will be those 2 even if Hader is here.

 

Pomeranz is a free agent and Knebel is coming off a major arm injury. Seems like a bad/dangerous plan to me.

 

Hader is cheap and effective. A couple of years from now? Totally on board with trading him. But trading from a position of weakness to address another weakness doesn’t make sense to me.

[Oxy]

Knebel and Pomeranz.

 

Much easier to find a reliever than a stud SS. If Hader fades, it will be those 2 even if Hader is here.

 

Pomeranz is a free agent and Knebel is coming off a major arm injury. Seems like a bad/dangerous plan to me.

 

Hader is cheap and effective. A couple of years from now? Totally on board with trading him. But trading from a position of weakness to address another weakness doesn’t make sense to me.

 

Hader IS cheap and effective, that's what makes him a valuable trade chip.

 

The bullpen is by far the strength of the team. We have a good OF as well. Having a strong and deep position player group and starting pitching is more important/fundamental than having a closer. A back end bullpen of Knebel, Black, Peralta, D Williams, Burnes and Pomeranz (if signed) has a very high ceiling/potential if not a long track record of reliability. There aren't many "reliable" relievers (including Hader...heck even Kimbrel as we saw this year).

 

I'm afraid of signing a few expensive veteran FAs to fill holes and have them flop, and have Hader becoming less effective and more expensive (thus losing trade value). With the farm system we currently have we could get stuck in a very bad place very quickly and for many years on end forcing us to trade Woodruff, Yelich, Hiura and completely start over. I think we can re-stock right now and put ourself in a decent position to win NOW with Braun and Cain still around AND build around Yelich, Hiura, Woodruff, +(whoever we get from a Hader trade) to win throughout the 2020s.

[3and2Fastball]

Hader is one of the very few big trade chips we have that can really help to bring in a much needed (and more important to the team) Shortstop.

 

Relief Pitchers are volatile by nature, year to year.

 

His production is trending downwards.

 

Yes, I'd trade him...

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Hader is one of the very few big trade chips we have that can really help to bring in a much needed (and more important to the team) Shortstop.

 

Relief Pitchers are volatile by nature, year to year.

 

His production is trending downwards.

 

Yes, I'd trade him...

 

I have a tough time seeing the Brewers outwardly shopping Hader this winter. But it wouldn't surprise me to see a team offer of a package of prospects or MLB talent that makes Stearns consider it, though.

 

I personally can't see Hader being dealt. But if he is, it's going to be for a huge haul. I could see a team with highly ranked systems like the Braves, Padres, White Sox, Rays, and Phillies making a godfather-type offer. The Dodgers and Astros are also possibilities.

 

Every one of those teams has pieces that are either already on the MLB roster, or are MLB-ready, that the Brewers would be interested in.