Is it time to consider moving Hader

[Eye Black]

You can cross off the Rays, Twins, and Braves. These type of moves are things they don't normally do especially the Rays.

The Twins front office is now led by Derek Falvey. The Twins have done a masterful job building a competitive roster since his hire in the Fall of 2016. Falvey and Stearns were with the Cleveland Indians at the same time in 2012 (they were co-directors of baseball operations), with Stearns reportedly focused on player contracts, data analysis, and strategy, while Falvey worked on player acquisitions. During 2015-2016 Falvey was the Indians Asst. GM, which included pulling off the Andrew Miller trade at the deadline in 2016 (trading away Clint Frazier, Justus Sheffield, Ben Heller, and J.P. Feyereisen) on their way to playing in the World Series. That was the same July that the Brewers and Indians came to terms on a Jonathan Lucroy deal that was ultimately nixed by Lucroy.

 

I wouldn’t completely count out the Twins as a team that may make some big trade headlines at some point. They have the prospect inventory to do it, and if Falvey and company believe they have a legitimate chance to play for the World Series than they may be incentivized to make a big splash.

 

Regarding the Dodgers (mentioned earlier), one player I would love to pry from them is Wisconsin native SS Gavin Lux. He seems on the path to becoming a star and is likely only a year away from making his major league debut.

[Brew crew 92]

You can cross off the Rays, Twins, and Braves. These type of moves are things they don't normally do especially the Rays.

The Twins front office is now led by Derek Falvey. The Twins have done a masterful job building a competitive roster since his hire in the Fall of 2016. Falvey and Stearns were with the Cleveland Indians at the same time in 2012 (they were co-directors of baseball operations), with Stearns reportedly focused on player contracts, data analysis, and strategy, while Falvey worked on player acquisitions. During 2015-2016 Falvey was the Indians Asst. GM, which included pulling off the Andrew Miller trade at the deadline in 2016 (trading away Clint Frazier, Justus Sheffield, Ben Heller, and J.P. Feyereisen) on their way to playing in the World Series. That was the same July that the Brewers and Indians came to terms on a Jonathan Lucroy deal that was ultimately nixed by Lucroy.

 

I wouldn’t completely count out the Twins as a team that may make some big trade headlines at some point. They have the prospect inventory to do it, and if Falvey and company believe they have a legitimate chance to play for the World Series than they may be incentivized to make a big splash.

 

Regarding the Dodgers (mentioned earlier), one player I would love to pry from them is Wisconsin native SS Gavin Lux. He seems on the path to becoming a star and is likely only a year away from making his major league debut.

 

Funny timing with your post, and my post in the sell thread. But I must say, IF we trade Hader I hope it’s to an American League team, but the best deal should take precedence.

[Wahoo Maniac]

Timing > the players we get back will/can help us THIS year and next. Waiting costs us wins.

I have to ask, given you keep pounding on this, and I'm not speaking about the future because that's the point of the trade, to land multiple top tier prospects to help the team in the future. But if we're losing Hader in the pen "this year" then how do we upgrade that loss "this year" via the trade?

[MrTPlush]

It would take some insane perfect package to move Hader. You are either trading him and starting a full-blown rebuild or somehow a contending team is sending so much can't miss AA-AAA talent it actually would make sense. Hader is an essential piece to us contending short term I just can't fathom them trading him. The Astros are probably the only team that has the kind of insane prospects that trading a few off for Hader wouldn't deplete their system and maybe make sense. The only other two teams I could see are the Dodgers or Braves.

 

Dodgers are probably the most logical team because they have to be getting desperate to win and Hader could honestly put them over the top. However that much control of Hader is arguably worth one of the premier prospects in the game...not sure the Dodgers possess that. The Astros have the prospects, no doubt, but they may not be that desperate to trade away their reinforcements. Braves are an interesting possibility.

 

It is so hard to match up on a trade of such magnitude. There are arguably only a handful of teams with the prospects to do it that would want him. Add in the fact we are competing and have a bright short term future the trade would have to be not only good, but likely be AA-AAA elite talent so we could have a quick turnaround.

[Brew crew 92]

Timing > the players we get back will/can help us THIS year and next. Waiting costs us wins.

I have to ask, given you keep pounding on this, and I'm not speaking about the future because that's the point of the trade, to land multiple top tier prospects to help the team in the future. But if we're losing Hader in the pen "this year" then how do we upgrade that loss "this year" via the trade?

 

Example:

 

Acquire Will Smith from the Giants.

Smith > Supek & Stokes & Griep

 

Acquire Jake Diekman from KC.

Diekman > Olzyck

 

Claudio optioned for Diekman. I then also call up D Williams and IF he excels, I send Burnes down to start.

 

We could win just as many games with this bullpen than if we had Hader, I believe. But if that’s not a good enough back end Trade for Colome, at least we’d have him next year too.

 

The players given up in these trades are far inferior to the players acquired by selling Hader. Imo.

[KeithStone53151]

Dodgers are probably the most logical team because they have to be getting desperate to win and Hader could honestly put them over the top. However that much control of Hader is arguably worth one of the premier prospects in the game...not sure the Dodgers possess that. The Astros have the prospects, no doubt, but they may not be that desperate to trade away their reinforcements. Braves are an interesting possibility.

 

This won't happen, but for pure speculation purposes...I think something like Verdugo + Lux + Smith could be interesting, also add in them taking Braun and his contract. No way the Dodgers would be willing to give that up, but I think it has to be something like that to give up Hader. All those guys are either MLB ready or in the upper minors and very close to MLB ready.

[Wahoo Maniac]

Timing > the players we get back will/can help us THIS year and next. Waiting costs us wins.

I have to ask, given you keep pounding on this, and I'm not speaking about the future because that's the point of the trade, to land multiple top tier prospects to help the team in the future. But if we're losing Hader in the pen "this year" then how do we upgrade that loss "this year" via the trade?

 

Example:

 

Acquire Will Smith from the Giants.

Smith > Supek & Stokes & Griep

 

Acquire Jake Diekman from KC.

Diekman > Olzyck

 

Claudio optioned for Diekman. I then also call up D Williams and IF he excels, I send Burnes down to start.

 

We could win just as many games with this bullpen than if we had Hader, I believe. But if that’s not a good enough back end Trade for Colome, at least we’d have him next year too.

 

The players given up in these trades are far inferior to the players acquired by selling Hader. Imo.

Maybe I didn't accurately phrase my question. It was in regard to you saying previously that trading Hader, not anybody else, that can help this team win now. That's who I was referring to. Solely trading Hader. Stearns is going to acquire pen arms regardless at the deadline even with Hader still here. But if you lose Hader what exactly are we acquiring from that specific trade that makes us better "this year"? Because that's what you're said previously...unless I somehow misinterpreted everything

[Brew crew 92]

What makes us better this year by trading hader for prospects is:

 

More willing to give up prospects to improve this year because we have the prospect haul coming back from Hader. And maybe a prospect we get back is ML ready. It wouldn’t in my trade proposal but, Stearns could get a ML ready prospect back.

 

If this trade were made early enough, he might have time to trade a prospect or two received for Hader for immediate help too.

[MrTPlush]

What makes us better this year by trading hader for prospects is:

 

More willing to give up prospects to improve this year because we have the prospect haul coming back from Hader. And maybe a prospect we get back is ML ready. It wouldn’t in my trade proposal but, Stearns could get a ML ready prospect back.

 

If this trade were made early enough, he might have time to trade a prospect or two received for Hader for immediate help too.

 

So essentially you want to walk 5 steps back and then trade the prospects to move forward 5 steps.

 

Since our bullpen has arguably had quite the problems I don't see how rearranging deck chairs is going to help. Yeah, you could have some crazy theory on how we can be just as good and keep a few prospects to boot...but that is the kind of theory that isn't really reality.

 

Might as well stick the prospects out there and hope we hit it big.

[brewcrewdue80]

This team doesn't look like a true contender and with Moustakas and Grandal likely gone after the season we have many holes to fill. With a less than stacked farm system and only Hiura looking to be an impact offensive force it may be time to consider cashing in one of our two biggest assets and move Hader if we can get a huge package in return.

 

To be honest I would even consider moving Yelich but what do you guys think of the possibility of moving Hader. We should only do this if we can get a great return but I think its something we should consider. Teams like Houston, Tampa, and Atlanta have the need and the farm systems to make such a deal.[/quote

 

https://tenor.com/0avE.gif

[Brew crew 92]

What makes us better this year by trading hader for prospects is:

 

More willing to give up prospects to improve this year because we have the prospect haul coming back from Hader. And maybe a prospect we get back is ML ready. It wouldn’t in my trade proposal but, Stearns could get a ML ready prospect back.

 

If this trade were made early enough, he might have time to trade a prospect or two received for Hader for immediate help too.

 

So essentially you want to walk 5 steps back and then trade the prospects to move forward 5 steps.

 

Since our bullpen has arguably had quite the problems I don't see how rearranging deck chairs is going to help. Yeah, you could have some crazy theory on how we can be just as good and keep a few prospects to boot...but that is the kind of theory that isn't really reality.

 

Might as well stick the prospects out there and hope we hit it big.

 

Trade Hader = abundance of good to great prospects added

 

Replace Hader with inferior but multiple quality pen arms giving us more depth in the pen, and a good closer in Smith, And or Colome or whoever.

 

I would rather have multiple all star type players at positions other than fireman(admittedly the best there is). Trading hader strengthens the overall team.

 

No worries of injuries or regression even if slight, from Hader a bonus.

[Wahoo Maniac]

Stearns is acquiring pen arms with Hader still here. There's no way in getting around that. Removing Hader from the pen, even with others being acquired, makes us worse "this year". Trading Hader now makes the org as a whole better but not the MLB team. The MLB team wouldn't be better until most likely 2021 as his return might need some experience at the MLB level before it clicks given you prefer it being all prospects.

 

I doubt Stearns is worried about parting with prospects this deadline to make the team better since we don't have many impact prospects to begin with and the only FA are Moose/Grandal/Chacin/Thames (if options are declined) so it's not like a bunch of these prospects are going to be needed to backfill spots. If Shaw bounces back he replaces Moose so that's an internal fill along with Nottingham pairing with Pina to replace Grandal. Or they resign Grandal making Nottingham available to move. Or Moose is resigned and Shaw backfills Thames spot internally. Dubon either replaces Saladino or starts over Arcia. All other prospects can easily be traded.

 

Stearns knows he has Hader and Yelich sitting in his back pocket to immediately improve the upper minors overnight while also most likely adding young, very controllable MLB players.

 

Unless LAD parts with Verdugo, Lux to start or ATL parts with Riley or Fried + multiple other top prospects then Hader isn't going anywhere.

[Brew crew 92]

Stearns is acquiring pen arms with Hader still here. There's no way in getting around that. Removing Hader from the pen, even with others being acquired, makes us worse "this year". Trading Hader now makes the org as a whole better but not the MLB team. The MLB team wouldn't be better until most likely 2021 as his return might need some experience at the MLB level before it clicks given you prefer it being all prospects.

 

I doubt Stearns is worried about parting with prospects this deadline to make the team better since we don't have many impact prospects to begin with and the only FA are Moose/Grandal/Chacin/Thames (if options are declined) so it's not like a bunch of these prospects are going to be needed to backfill spots. If Shaw bounces back he replaces Moose so that's an internal fill along with Nottingham pairing with Pina to replace Grandal. Or they resign Grandal making Nottingham available to move. Or Moose is resigned and Shaw backfills Thames spot internally. Dubon either replaces Saladino or starts over Arcia. All other prospects can easily be traded.

 

Stearns knows he has Hader and Yelich sitting in his back pocket to immediately improve the upper minors overnight while also most likely adding young, very controllable MLB players.

 

Unless LAD parts with Verdugo, Lux to start or ATL parts with Riley or Fried + multiple other top prospects then Hader isn't going anywhere.

 

I’d put the odds of a Hader Trade at 50% at either this deadline or next years. I’m hoping it’s this year for the reasons I’ve already given. But I’d be ok with next year too. I will say, I believe Stearns will show us what he’s really capable of as a GM, over this next 2 1/2 years more than the last 3 1/2.

 

I’m hoping for a Hader Trade if for no other reason than most other GMs wouldn’t, And Stearns, imo, needs to do his design work differently than any other GM, because of our payroll being chronically lower than it should, based upon our unarguably best fans in baseball, and never having won a title in our 50 year existence.

[KeithStone53151]

I’d put the odds of a Hader Trade at 50% at either this deadline or next years.

 

I'd put it at about 0.1% this year and maybe 1-2% next year. I'd put the odds of the Brewers winning the world series one of the next two years higher than a Josh Hader trade.

[MrTPlush]

I’d put the odds of a Hader Trade at 50% at either this deadline or next years.

 

HighHeat, is that you?

 

Yes - 50%

No - 50%

 

Real bold cotton. Haha regardless 50% seems a bit extreme. While we are contending trading away someone with so much control and is so important is really unlikely. It is a nice theory and it has its place in armchair GM world, but it is pretty rare in actuality.

[Wahoo Maniac]

Hader's not being traded at a deadline until he has 1.5yrs remaining or is a rental. Both cases are years down the road

[tmwiese55]

I just do not foresee this as even a discussion right now with so much control left, under 1% this year and it only goes up slightly until he's into his 2nd to last year.

 

I mean, what's the goal? Get 3-4 prospects back where hopefully one is as good as him? And then trade that guy 1.5 years into him being good for more prospects and hope one of them is good?

[Madhawk23]

I just do not foresee this as even a discussion right now with so much control left, under 1% this year and it only goes up slightly until he's into his 2nd to last year.

 

I mean, what's the goal? Get 3-4 prospects back where hopefully one is as good as him? And then trade that guy 1.5 years into him being good for more prospects and hope one of them is good?

 

I would have to agree with this. Even if we find ourselves down 5-6 games at the deadline in a few weeks, it's almost impossible to see a scenario in which a team would be willing to cough up the prospect capital that would be needed for Stearns to even consider moving a guy like Hader that has that much team control and is arguably the most dynamic pen arm in baseball right now. I think it would take a package in the range of:

 

Braves: Pache, Anderson and Allard

Astros: Whitley and either Tucker/Alvarez

Dodgers: Verdugo, Ruiz and May (maybe we send Braun back in the deal)

Twins: Kirilloff, Graterol and Balazovic

 

And, I doubt any of those teams would give up anything remotely close to those prospect packages - even for someone as dominant and with that amount of team control as Hader.

 

Fun to think about though.

[Brew crew 92]

I just do not foresee this as even a discussion right now with so much control left, under 1% this year and it only goes up slightly until he's into his 2nd to last year.

 

I mean, what's the goal? Get 3-4 prospects back where hopefully one is as good as him? And then trade that guy 1.5 years into him being good for more prospects and hope one of them is good?

 

Are you being serious with the < 1%?

 

And not even worthy of discussion?

 

I Trust Stearns with his track record of trades to be able to acquire MULTIPLE starters on a championship type club, maybe a prospect that turns into an Ace? Maybe it’s a couple all-stars? Maybe he takes 2 or 3 of the 4 or 5 top prospects and acquire’s a stud pitcher?

 

I haven’t heard much talk(outside of 1 poster) about what happens if Hader regresses or gets injured, then what?

 

There’s been a lot of talk on this site over the years of having a GM able to have the courage to sell high on a popular player at his peak.

 

Hader is the best pen arm in the world, but it’s still a PEN arm, I believe multiple all-star position players are more valuable and so are stud starters.

[KeithStone53151]

I just do not foresee this as even a discussion right now with so much control left, under 1% this year and it only goes up slightly until he's into his 2nd to last year.

 

I mean, what's the goal? Get 3-4 prospects back where hopefully one is as good as him? And then trade that guy 1.5 years into him being good for more prospects and hope one of them is good?

 

Are you being serious with the < 1%?

 

And not even worthy of discussion?

 

I Trust Stearns with his track record of trades to be able to acquire MULTIPLE starters on a championship type club, maybe a prospect that turns into an Ace? Maybe it’s a couple all-stars? Maybe he takes 2 or 3 of the 4 or 5 top prospects and acquire’s a stud pitcher?

 

I haven’t heard much talk(outside of 1 poster) about what happens if Hader regresses or gets injured, then what?

 

There’s been a lot of talk on this site over the years of having a GM able to have the courage to sell high on a popular player at his peak.

 

Hader is the best pen arm in the world, but it’s still a PEN arm, I believe multiple all-star position players are more valuable and so are stud starters.

 

When is the last time a unanimous top 5 reliever in baseball was traded with more than 3 years of team control left on their rookie deal? Hence where the <1% comes in...

[Brew crew 92]

I just do not foresee this as even a discussion right now with so much control left, under 1% this year and it only goes up slightly until he's into his 2nd to last year.

 

I mean, what's the goal? Get 3-4 prospects back where hopefully one is as good as him? And then trade that guy 1.5 years into him being good for more prospects and hope one of them is good?

 

Are you being serious with the < 1%?

 

And not even worthy of discussion?

 

I Trust Stearns with his track record of trades to be able to acquire MULTIPLE starters on a championship type club, maybe a prospect that turns into an Ace? Maybe it’s a couple all-stars? Maybe he takes 2 or 3 of the 4 or 5 top prospects and acquire’s a stud pitcher?

 

I haven’t heard much talk(outside of 1 poster) about what happens if Hader regresses or gets injured, then what?

 

There’s been a lot of talk on this site over the years of having a GM able to have the courage to sell high on a popular player at his peak.

 

Hader is the best pen arm in the world, but it’s still a PEN arm, I believe multiple all-star position players are more valuable and so are stud starters.

 

When is the last time a unanimous top 5 reliever in baseball was traded with more than 3 years of team control left on their rookie deal? Hence where the <1% comes in...

 

Well, some GM needs to create a new Precedent, i’m hoping against hope that it’s ours.

[pacopete4]

Hader isn’t going anywhere and if you’re a win-now type of a mindset it really makes no sense no matter how many posts you use to justify it. Surrounding Hader with other quality pen arms would be the correct approach to do.

[brewcrewdue80]

Hader via JAWS on BRef is already 513th all-time for Relievers. And you can likely pencil him in to be top 375 by season's end. He's on a HOF arch at the moment. You never trade that, I dont care if its Vlad Jr. Extension talks should be considered after this season. You at least lock up his salary and give an extra 2 years control. Late inning. RP position solved for another 6years.

 

Any poster here that even agreed to a Hader trade in this thread should be temporarily banned until after the trade deadline. Ya'll are that ridiculous to bring that idea here.

[Brew crew 92]

Hader via JAWS on BRef is already 513th all-time for Relievers. And you can likely pencil him in to be top 375 by season's end. He's on a HOF arch at the moment. You never trade that, I dont care if its Vlad Jr. Extension talks should be considered after this season. You at least lock up his salary and give an extra 2 years control. Late inning. RP position solved for another 6years.

 

Any poster here that even agreed to a Hader trade in this thread should be temporarily banned until after the trade deadline. Ya'll are that ridiculous to bring that idea here.

 

Funny post.

 

Never in a trillion lifetimes, should he or would he extend Hader, way too high an injury risk over the 6 years. He’s a pitcher that throws nothing but fastballs, and it’s been shown that fastballs are hardest on the elbow. I’ll stop there.

[tmwiese55]

I just do not foresee this as even a discussion right now with so much control left, under 1% this year and it only goes up slightly until he's into his 2nd to last year.

 

I mean, what's the goal? Get 3-4 prospects back where hopefully one is as good as him? And then trade that guy 1.5 years into him being good for more prospects and hope one of them is good?

 

Are you being serious with the < 1%?

 

And not even worthy of discussion?

 

I Trust Stearns with his track record of trades to be able to acquire MULTIPLE starters on a championship type club, maybe a prospect that turns into an Ace? Maybe it’s a couple all-stars? Maybe he takes 2 or 3 of the 4 or 5 top prospects and acquire’s a stud pitcher?

 

I haven’t heard much talk(outside of 1 poster) about what happens if Hader regresses or gets injured, then what?

 

There’s been a lot of talk on this site over the years of having a GM able to have the courage to sell high on a popular player at his peak.

 

Hader is the best pen arm in the world, but it’s still a PEN arm, I believe multiple all-star position players are more valuable and so are stud starters.

 

Sorry, no way another team is going to give up that package with multiple all stars or an Ace pitcher. That's why it's less than 1%. I of course agree all star position players and a true ace are more valuable, but that's also why no one is going to give that to you.

 

What happens if injured, yea same goes for every player on the team. So, are we just going to perpetually trade good players as soon as they show they're good (but prior to injury) to get more prospects who we hope become good so we can trade for more prospects. Also, the prospects you trade for can also get hurt BTW. This is a discussion for when he gets to 2 years left and/or the team is not trying to win anymore.