Is it time to consider moving Hader

[82brewcrew82]

Let’s say you could get a package like this right now for Hader.

 

OF Yordan Alvarez

RHP Corbin Martin

RHP J.B. Bukauskas

1B Seth Beer

The problem is that I don't think this package is even remotely reasonable.

[monkeyman343434]

No offense to anyone here, but i'm not sure why this is being discussed even?? If Stearns gets off his ass and actually makes some trades to make this team better THIS year, then there is no reason they can't make the playoffs. And next year, I also see zero reason why Moose AND Grandal can't both be signed(they can be), so what have you lost?? That team could be competitive for several years yet as is(with the addition of a few key pieces for the next couple of years). Worry about the future when it's time to worry about it. The time for them to be competitive and be a "big boy" baseball team is now and the next few years.

Because both Moose and Grandal are free agents after this year, so they can go wherever they would like, the Brewers don't control them. With the seasons' they're having, they're both going to command contracts much higher than what they're making this year.

[KeithStone53151]

I don't think they Brewers would get max value by trading Hader now. Generally a team isn't going to adequately pay for 4+ years of team control. If we are intending to trade Hader, it would probably best to do so with 1.5-2.5 years of team control. That probably matches up roughly with this window of contention anyways and when we'd have to retool/rebuild.

[Wahoo Maniac]

No. Hader has 4.5yrs remaining and this team is tied for first in the division and still has a bunch of talent to compete for the WS over the next couple seasons.

 

Yelich is going to make an absolute killing once his contract is up after 2022 so I'd worry about trading him before Hader. I wouldn't do anything until after 2020 at the very earliest but more closer to the 2021 deadline/after season.

[KeithStone53151]

No. Hader has 4.5yrs remaining and this team is tied for first in the division and still has a bunch of talent to compete for the WS over the next couple seasons.

 

Yelich is going to make an absolute killing once his contract is up after 2022 so I'd worry about trading him before Hader. I wouldn't do anything until after 2020 at the very earliest but more closer to the 2021 deadline/after season.

 

This is about where I'm at. We should for sure be trying to win this year and next year, 2021 will be a decision year where we consider trading some of our elite players if we fall out of contention. And I said consider, doesn't mean we should necessarily do it. But that would be roughly a time we could max out value on Yelich and Hader.

[RollieTime]

Let’s say you could get a package like this right now for Hader.

 

OF Yordan Alvarez

RHP Corbin Martin

RHP J.B. Bukauskas

1B Seth Beer

The problem is that I don't think this package is even remotely reasonable.

 

Alvarez is the number 11 prospect in baseball right now. Martin and Bukauskas are ranked 48th and 98th respectively. Beer will probably be in the 75-100 range when the next rankings come out. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to get 1 top 15 guy and 3 guys in the 50-100 range for 4.5 seasons (5 postseason runs) of the top reliever in the game. The Brewers have the most sought after reliever in the game playing at the league minimum. The Astros could turn around and move him with 2 years left on his contract and get a couple highly regarded prospects back down the road.

 

I don’t think I would want to move Hader right now with 4.5 years of control, but a package like that would be hard to turn down.

[brooks_quichenick]

Corbin Martin also just had Tommy John surgery the other day, fwiw.

[pitchleague]

Let’s say you could get a package like this right now for Hader.

 

OF Yordan Alvarez

RHP Corbin Martin

RHP J.B. Bukauskas

1B Seth Beer

The problem is that I don't think this package is even remotely reasonable.

 

 

I see Corbin Martin is now set for Tommy John surgery

[Brew crew 92]

There’s also risk involved in waiting to trade Hader. Risk from injury, and risk of regression, even if only slightly.

 

With that said let’s get the franchise altering trade done, 4-5 top prospects THAT CAN ALSO BE TRADED FOR TOP PLAYERS TO HELP US WIN NOW!

 

We can get a couple quality pen arms to solidify the backend, without giving up too much prospect capitol. And an offensive piece.

 

Still win now! Still win now, just without Hader, and with 4-5 top prospects we can use to plug any holes.

[ThisIsMyCrew]

How did this topic even get started? There is zero incentive to trading him. Rookie contract and best reliever in baseball. Also, we are still tied for first. Just don’t get it.

[trwi7]

There is zero incentive to trading him.

 

Sure there is. Relievers are so volatile. Edwin Diaz was every bit as good as Hader was last year, if not better and now he has an ERA pushing 6 with a FIP of around 4 and is giving up hard contact nearly half the time. Same is true for Blake Treinen and Jose Leclerc and Jose Alvarado and Jeurys Familia and Joakim Soria and Jeremy Jeffress and Dellin Betances.

[Brew crew 92]

There is zero incentive to trading him.

 

Sure there is. Relievers are so volatile. Edwin Diaz was every bit as good as Hader was last year, if not better and now he has an ERA pushing 6 with a FIP of around 4 and is giving up hard contact nearly half the time. Same is true for Blake Treinen and Jose Leclerc and Jose Alvarado and Jeurys Familia and Joakim Soria and Jeremy Jeffress and Dellin Betances.

 

Exactly.

That’s why Stearns should trade as high on Hader as he can as quickly as he can. THIS DEADLINE. The haul would be historic and franchise altering. With Stearns & co’s brainpower we could parlay the haul into multiple all star type players at multiple positions, giving this team a better chance to win NOW and during Yelich’s window.

[RollieTime]

There is zero incentive to trading him.

 

Sure there is. Relievers are so volatile. Edwin Diaz was every bit as good as Hader was last year, if not better and now he has an ERA pushing 6 with a FIP of around 4 and is giving up hard contact nearly half the time. Same is true for Blake Treinen and Jose Leclerc and Jose Alvarado and Jeurys Familia and Joakim Soria and Jeremy Jeffress and Dellin Betances.

 

Yup. I suggested trading Knebel the last two offseasons now and it really would of been wise to do so. He was bad most of last season before the final month. He probably regained most of his value back by being so dominant late in the year and in the postseason. Now he is missing all of this season.

 

For the Brewers to have continued success, they need to make moves to keep filtering young talent into the organization. Trading relief pitchers after career years is a fantastic way of doing that. Moving guys like Tyler Thornburg, Knebel, and Hader is something the Brewers should continue exploring each and every offseason. With Hader’s odd throwing motion and how hard he pitches, he is definitely a TJ candidate in his career. If he needs TJ surgery in June of next year and can’t pitch in the postseason for us in 2020 and misses all of 2021 as well, now you’re down to 2 years of control and his value at rock bottom. The window of opportunity to cash in on him would be gone.

 

There’s a lot to consider in regards of what to do with Hader.

[Wahoo Maniac]

There is zero incentive to trading him.

 

Sure there is. Relievers are so volatile. Edwin Diaz was every bit as good as Hader was last year, if not better and now he has an ERA pushing 6 with a FIP of around 4 and is giving up hard contact nearly half the time. Same is true for Blake Treinen and Jose Leclerc and Jose Alvarado and Jeurys Familia and Joakim Soria and Jeremy Jeffress and Dellin Betances.

 

Exactly.

That’s why Stearns should trade as high on Hader as he can as quickly as he can. THIS DEADLINE. The haul would be historic and franchise altering. With Stearns & co’s brainpower we could parlay the haul into multiple all star type players at multiple positions, giving this team a better chance to win NOW and during Yelich’s window.

Except most of the pitchers mentioned are older or didn't have Hader's pedigree/out of the gate dominant relief profile. When Hader came up everyone knew he was going to dominate out of the pen. He's surprised nobody and guys like him don't regress to the point they're worth mush less or even little. Edwin Diaz is 25 with 3yrs control remaining - if you think his 2019 is how he's going to perform moving forward and his value is dead then you'll believe anything. Hader's value isn't going anywhere unless he suffers a significant injury.

 

This team is in 1st place in their division and will be super competitive for the rest of this year and 2020. Come 2021 is when they need to start discussing when to trade both of them as Yelich will have 2yrs remaining at that point with Hader 3yrs. Until then they're going to help this team win so there's no point in even discussing it further because he's not going to be traded before then. Aroldis Chapman brought back an elite prospect (Torres), another Top 80 (McKinney), MLB pen arm (Warren) + flyer and he only had 2 months control. Trading Hader with 2yrs+ control will still bring an absolute monster haul and in the meantime we'll continue to get dominating performances from him. Same goes for Yelich as no way we're paying him 30-35M annually.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I get that its disappointing the brewers aren't 20 games over 500 and they have plenty if warts, but they are still a 1st place team in a deep division. For what they did over the offseason, it would be foolish at this point to sell, particularly with Hader.

 

Ride it out, if they tank over the next few weeks then they should look long and hard at trading guys like Moose and Grandal, maybe some other relievers who are actually having good years like Albers...Hader has too much team friendly control left for the brewers to ever actually get equal value in return by dealing him now - maybe they revisit that option 2 offseasons from now.

 

Odds are much higher that they add, not sell, by july 31st.

[rickh150]

What team gives them enough back? The package would have to be similar in prospects to what OKC received in picks from the Clippers for George. It would also HAVE to be after this season, since we still have a good shot at the postseason and Wold Series with one year players Moose and Grandal.

[Brew crew 92]

I get that its disappointing the brewers aren't 20 games over 500 and they have plenty if warts, but they are still a 1st place team in a deep division. For what they did over the offseason, it would be foolish at this point to sell, particularly with Hader.

 

Ride it out, if they tank over the next few weeks then they should look long and hard at trading guys like Moose and Grandal, maybe some other relievers who are actually having good years like Albers...Hader has too much team friendly control left for the brewers to ever actually get equal value in return by dealing him now - maybe they revisit that option 2 offseasons from now.

 

Odds are much higher that they add, not sell, by july 31st.

 

The selling high on Hader is NOT being a seller at the deadline. It’s selling high on Hader, AND using the massive prospect haul to better the team immediately, THIS YEAR. Sellers and buyers at the same time. Pen arms no matter how awesome(Hader)can be replaced with pen arms that can still close out the win. Some of the top prospects received can be used to acquire a top player or two to help win THIS year and the future. This eliminates possible injury and even slight regression from Hader being a concern moving forward.

[rickh150]

I get that its disappointing the brewers aren't 20 games over 500 and they have plenty if warts, but they are still a 1st place team in a deep division. For what they did over the offseason, it would be foolish at this point to sell, particularly with Hader.

 

Ride it out, if they tank over the next few weeks then they should look long and hard at trading guys like Moose and Grandal, maybe some other relievers who are actually having good years like Albers...Hader has too much team friendly control left for the brewers to ever actually get equal value in return by dealing him now - maybe they revisit that option 2 offseasons from now.

 

Odds are much higher that they add, not sell, by july 31st.

 

The selling high on Hader is NOT being a seller at the deadline. It’s selling high on Hader, AND using the massive prospect haul to better the team immediately, THIS YEAR. Sellers and buyers at the same time. Pen arms no matter how awesome(Hader)can be replaced with pen arms that can still close out the win. Some of the top prospects received can be used to acquire a top player or two to help win THIS year and the future. This eliminates possible injury and even slight regression from Hader being a concern moving forward.

 

I don't see this scenario playing out in three weeks..... again, maybe the offseason when tine isn't as much a factor.

[Brew crew 92]

What team gives them enough back? The package would have to be similar in prospects to what OKC received in picks from the Clippers for George. It would also HAVE to be after this season, since we still have a good shot at the postseason and Wold Series with one year players Moose and Grandal.

 

Teams with the prospects and the need for Hader at this year’s deadline:

 

1.) Twins

2.) Astros

3.) Rays

4.) Braves

5.) Dodgers

[Wahoo Maniac]

I get that its disappointing the brewers aren't 20 games over 500 and they have plenty if warts, but they are still a 1st place team in a deep division. For what they did over the offseason, it would be foolish at this point to sell, particularly with Hader.

 

Ride it out, if they tank over the next few weeks then they should look long and hard at trading guys like Moose and Grandal, maybe some other relievers who are actually having good years like Albers...Hader has too much team friendly control left for the brewers to ever actually get equal value in return by dealing him now - maybe they revisit that option 2 offseasons from now.

 

Odds are much higher that they add, not sell, by july 31st.

 

The selling high on Hader is NOT being a seller at the deadline. It’s selling high on Hader, AND using the massive prospect haul to better the team immediately, THIS YEAR. Sellers and buyers at the same time. Pen arms no matter how awesome(Hader)can be replaced with pen arms that can still close out the win. Some of the top prospects received can be used to acquire a top player or two to help win THIS year and the future. This eliminates possible injury and even slight regression from Hader being a concern moving forward.

That's not how it works though. All these prospects aren't going to help the MLB team immediately. What will happen is we'll lose Hader in the pen making our MLB team much worse while the organziation as a whlole improves its overall quality/depth. Those are two very different things. Best case scenario is we'd get 1 player back in the package who either has some MLB experience or are ready and just need that opportunity (if this is the case it's going to have to be a stud rotation arm or a pen arm - and it took forever to get a stud bat in Hiura at this level as Stearns wants vets for the stretch/playoffs, not rookies unless they're in the pen like Woodruff/Burnes).

[ThisIsMyCrew]

There is zero incentive to trading him.

 

Sure there is. Relievers are so volatile. Edwin Diaz was every bit as good as Hader was last year, if not better and now he has an ERA pushing 6 with a FIP of around 4 and is giving up hard contact nearly half the time. Same is true for Blake Treinen and Jose Leclerc and Jose Alvarado and Jeurys Familia and Joakim Soria and Jeremy Jeffress and Dellin Betances.

 

Yup. I suggested trading Knebel the last two offseasons now and it really would of been wise to do so. He was bad most of last season before the final month. He probably regained most of his value back by being so dominant late in the year and in the postseason. Now he is missing all of this season.

 

For the Brewers to have continued success, they need to make moves to keep filtering young talent into the organization. Trading relief pitchers after career years is a fantastic way of doing that. Moving guys like Tyler Thornburg, Knebel, and Hader is something the Brewers should continue exploring each and every offseason. With Hader’s odd throwing motion and how hard he pitches, he is definitely a TJ candidate in his career. If he needs TJ surgery in June of next year and can’t pitch in the postseason for us in 2020 and misses all of 2021 as well, now you’re down to 2 years of control and his value at rock bottom. The window of opportunity to cash in on him would be gone.

 

There’s a lot to consider in regards of what to do with Hader.

 

Sure! Maybe in the off-season. The team is in first place right now in the NL Central. Why would we trade our best pitcher who is and will be a huge part of our success. I get the concept of trading to fill the pipeline. But how often are we talking about guys who never make it? How many miserable years we have had missing the playoffs. Now a first place team on July 6th and we want to sell off our best pitcher, who will get CY Young votes. Seems crazy to me.

[Wahoo Maniac]

There is zero incentive to trading him.

 

Sure there is. Relievers are so volatile. Edwin Diaz was every bit as good as Hader was last year, if not better and now he has an ERA pushing 6 with a FIP of around 4 and is giving up hard contact nearly half the time. Same is true for Blake Treinen and Jose Leclerc and Jose Alvarado and Jeurys Familia and Joakim Soria and Jeremy Jeffress and Dellin Betances.

 

Yup. I suggested trading Knebel the last two offseasons now and it really would of been wise to do so. He was bad most of last season before the final month. He probably regained most of his value back by being so dominant late in the year and in the postseason. Now he is missing all of this season.

 

For the Brewers to have continued success, they need to make moves to keep filtering young talent into the organization. Trading relief pitchers after career years is a fantastic way of doing that. Moving guys like Tyler Thornburg, Knebel, and Hader is something the Brewers should continue exploring each and every offseason. With Hader’s odd throwing motion and how hard he pitches, he is definitely a TJ candidate in his career. If he needs TJ surgery in June of next year and can’t pitch in the postseason for us in 2020 and misses all of 2021 as well, now you’re down to 2 years of control and his value at rock bottom. The window of opportunity to cash in on him would be gone.

 

There’s a lot to consider in regards of what to do with Hader.

After Knebel's amazing 2017 why would the Brewers trade him heading into 2018 when he still had 4yrs control with a super competitive team in the hunt for a ring? That's the absolute worst time to trade someone like Knebel. Also, he had some injuries throughout 2018 starting in April but when he was healthy he was dominant like he was in 2017. Thornburg was traded during a time when the Brewers were rebuilding and not capable of making a deep run. It was the perfect time to trade him to add to the org and help build its foundation in the near and distant future (Shaw at MLB level filling 3b spot for years to come and Dubon in the minors). That's what Thornburg brought back with 2yrs control and less success/worst stuff than Knebel and certainly nowhere near the success of Hader. Knebel will be ready for next season with 2yrs control and a still very competitive team capable of that deep run. Even if he's traded before 2021 with 1yr control he'll still bring back a great return (assuming he's solid next year as it usually takes a year after TJ to settle back in) while giving us an excellent performance at the end of 2018 and hopefully helping the team next year as well. It's win/win.

 

The Brewers could also extend him a couple years giving them more time to use him and trade him with more control.

 

Hader also doesn't have an odd throwing motion that makes him susceptible to TJ and he sits between 93-97 depending how rested he is as opposed to someone who consistently throws 98-100. I guess I just don't understand the logic behind pushing for a Hader trade now while remaining silent on Yelich given he'll have 3yrs control after this year for like 42M or something. What if he regresses? What if he tears is ACL like Dubon did? Are we only having this conversation because Hader is a reliever?

[nate82]

What team gives them enough back? The package would have to be similar in prospects to what OKC received in picks from the Clippers for George. It would also HAVE to be after this season, since we still have a good shot at the postseason and Wold Series with one year players Moose and Grandal.

 

Teams with the prospects and the need for Hader at this year’s deadline:

 

1.) Twins

2.) Astros

3.) Rays

4.) Braves

5.) Dodgers

 

 

You can cross off the Rays, Twins, and Braves. These type of moves are things they don't normally do especially the Rays.

 

That leaves you with the Astros and the Dodgers. I don't see the Dodgers going out and paying what it would cost to acquire Hader and I don't see the Astros doing it either.

 

Again it is way too early to be trading Hader. This maybe an off season move but is probably more of a 2021 move. I just don't see a team trading away the talent needed for the Brewers to make a trade. This is the same issue the Angels had with Trout. There is basically no team out there that will even offer the amount of value to fulfill the kind of trade that would be needed.

[mtsportsfan]

I know it doesn't seem to matter, because we want the best deal. But if does happen , definitely prefer sending him to AL.

[Brew crew 92]

What team gives them enough back? The package would have to be similar in prospects to what OKC received in picks from the Clippers for George. It would also HAVE to be after this season, since we still have a good shot at the postseason and Wold Series with one year players Moose and Grandal.

 

Teams with the prospects and the need for Hader at this year’s deadline:

 

1.) Twins

2.) Astros

3.) Rays

4.) Braves

5.) Dodgers

 

 

You can cross off the Rays, Twins, and Braves. These type of moves are things they don't normally do especially the Rays.

 

That leaves you with the Astros and the Dodgers. I don't see the Dodgers going out and paying what it would cost to acquire Hader and I don't see the Astros doing it either.

 

Again it is way too early to be trading Hader. This maybe an off season move but is probably more of a 2021 move. I just don't see a team trading away the talent needed for the Brewers to make a trade. This is the same issue the Angels had with Trout. There is basically no team out there that will even offer the amount of value to fulfill the kind of trade that would be needed.

 

Then we take what we’d get with 3 1/2 yrs of control, for 2 reasons:

 

Protect from injury and regression, this is being overlooked way to much in my opinion, especially regression. Even if there’s slight regression his value goes down substantially, right now his overwhelming dominant aura adds to his value, imo.

 

Timing > the players we get back will/can help us THIS year and next. Waiting costs us wins.

 

So the prospect package would be closer to the 3 1/2 year control but team would get the 4 1/2.

 

You don’t know that the Rays Twins Braves wouldn’t be in. There’s never been a pen arm with the control like Hader On the market in the history of baseball.