2019-07-04: Brewers (Woodruff) at Reds (Castillo) 1:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 1-0 -- Brewers held to two hits as they’re shutout for second consecutive game]

[adambr2]

The Grandal leadoff experience needs to end also. Not sure what else they can do. Maybe just put Cain back there and live or die with him. It's a mess.

 

When you get 2 hits it does not really matter who is leading off. Grandal has an excellent eye at the plate and gets on base about 38% of the time which is important in front of Yelich. He's probably as good of an option as any, they just don't really have anything going offensively right now.

[Eye Black]

I hope Shaw gets hot and comes back soon. Only partially kidding. Hiura hasn’t had the impact many were hoping for.

 

Hiura had one of the 2 paltry brewer hits today and was on base twice...tough for any one player to suddenly make the rest of a mlb roster hit. I get your point but it seems like a reach when Keston is far from looking the worst at the plate for this club right now.

Hiura needs to make more contact, but I think he will with time similar to how his season at Triple-A played out. The only Brewers player (among those with 50+ plate appearances) who is averaging a higher Exit Velocity than Keston Hiura is Christian Yelich. He’s 22 years old, I think Hiura could be a fine #6 hitter this season, but if other guys struggle he is unfortunately going to be expected to do more.

[treego14]

Yeah, Hiura is NOT the problem ... he struck that ball very hard in the 9th ... it was just right at somebody, unfortunately. He had one of our two hits today on a smoking liner, also.

 

Still, we need "contact" hitters, and we just don't have them. We have 100-plus strikeout guys at every spot in the lineup. Check the stats. It's painfully true.

[Bulldogboy]

The lack of 2018 Cain is even more of a killer than no 2018 shaw or Aguillar.

[Austin Tatious]

Even the biggest contrarian or Brewer homer ill-equipped to handle any negativity would have to agree that the loss of Derek Johnson has been a double whammy. Not only is the Brewer staff largely in disarray, but Johnson has helped a divisional rival.

[mtrebs]

As is tradition, the Brewers are complete garbage going in to the All-Star break. #SameOldBrewers.

[yourout]

Even the biggest contrarian or Brewer homer ill-equipped to handle any negativity would have to agree that the loss of Derek Johnson has been a double whammy. Not only is the Brewer staff largely in disarray, but Johnson has helped a divisional rival.

If I was a big league club looking for a manager he would be right at the top of my list.

[Brew crew 92]

The lack of 2018 Cain is even more of a killer than no 2018 shaw or Aguillar.

 

This is the number one problem we have with the offense. So bad he can’t hit leadoff where he belongs. Almost .100 points lower getting on base. Not sure we can hope he gets better after the break if this is thumb related.

[LaprilOne]

Garbage? That is really uncalled for. Are your really a Brewer fan?

 

Critical and tough analysis is called for. But "garbage?" C'mon man. (mr tr rebs)

[pacopete4]

Garbage? That is really uncalled for. Are your really a Brewer fan?

 

Critical and tough analysis is called for. But "garbage?" C'mon man. (mr tr rebs)

 

This won’t do any good. And I totally agree with you with what you said. But those crap comments just get passed over all the time around here and they are really only made by a select few who choose to drag this place down to the filth of twitter.

[mtrebs]

For the expectations I had for this team, especially from an offensive standpoint, yes, they've been playing like garbage. How many games are our only runs via the home run? How many games are we seeing guys making their MLB debut against us and dominating us, or how many times are pitchers getting their career highs in strikeouts against us? How many games are we going to throw away due to stupid mistakes on the basebath or in the field? How many games is Counsell going to start multiple guys that are struggling even though it's the most winnable game of the series, essentially conceding that game? How many series are we going to lose to teams that we should be beating (even worse, we are barely winning one of the games)?

 

Just because I see the Brewers for what they really are (a very mediocre team that is fortunate to have the record they do and be in the division they are), doesn't make me not a fan. In fact, I'd argue that I'm one of the bigger Brewers fans there are. I had high expectations after last season, and I wasn't happy with the decisions made over the offseason, and I'm definitely happy with how this team has been playing for most of the season. I'm actually more disappointed in this year's team than I was in the 2002 team (even when I was at loss 100 that year).

 

Since my comments are crap it must mean that they are false. If they haven't been playing like garbage lately, how have they been playing? How has their last 4-5 weeks gone, especially compared to how we believed they'd go? Must have gone pretty well if I'm incorrect.

 

The 2002 team, who was really garbage and lost 106 games that year, went 14-16 from June 1 through July 4. Guess how that compares to 2019? Exactly the same, and this year's schedule was "favorable". This team hasn't played better than the 2002 team, so I'd say "garbage" is a justifiable term.

[Brew crew 92]

Analytics have separated the high payrolls from the rest of the pack more than ever before. It’s become too easy to be smart, with all teams having the same information. Used to be high payrolls making the mistake of overpaying. No more. Teams can’t outsmart, baseball is gravitating to superteams, and those teams all have payrolls over 190. Most between 200-240.

 

The brewers, unless their payrolls take a leap upwards to 180+ in real contention years have no chance to win. The tax thresholds should also leap upwards because of the new national tv deals. So everyone should bump up 20 or so. Next year’s high payrolls will be 220-260.

 

Watch the Dodgers Yankees Astros and tell me the brewers have a chance.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I hope Shaw gets hot and comes back soon. Only partially kidding. Hiura hasn’t had the impact many were hoping for.

 

He hasn't been the savior, but it hasn't been nearly all his fault, either. He's been ok.

 

Shaw's nightmare season has continued in San Antonio so far. Hitting. 205 in AAA, 0 for 3 with 2 K's yesterday. He's certainly not making them regret the decision.

 

I don't know what the answer is. I mean, Hiura should probably be up. He's OK ... been better than Shaw. But he's no savior, at least right now. The hype train was a little too full steam ahead I think.

[willie key]

What?

[adambr2]

I hope Shaw gets hot and comes back soon. Only partially kidding. Hiura hasn’t had the impact many were hoping for.

 

He hasn't been the savior, but it hasn't been nearly all his fault, either. He's been ok.

 

Shaw's nightmare season has continued in San Antonio so far. Hitting. 205 in AAA, 0 for 3 with 2 K's yesterday. He's certainly not making them regret the decision.

 

I'm to the point where I think if Hiura doesn't start really helping, it's time for a "Hiura eat crow thread" where every one who was nails on a chalkboard calling for him to come up, or blasted the Brewers for sending him down, maybe has to admit that he isn't the god among men they were making him out to be. He's ok now, and he'll likely be good in the future. He should probably be up. But he's no savior.

 

But...90% of people who wanted Hiura up weren't expecting him to be the savior. They were expecting him to hit decent enough to be a considerable upgrade from the production that Shaw has provided, with the opportunity for more in the future as he grows. Which is exactly what he has been.

 

I don't know why there is this "I told you so" rhetoric around Hiura. He's doing fine. He needs to cut down on his K's, but for a 22 year old who has been playing professional baseball for all of 2 years, for his first 100 or so ABs, he's been just fine. He's got a 102 OPS+ to Shaw's 48. He absolutely has been a large offensive upgrade over Shaw even already and he'll improve.

 

No one expected him to hit like Christian Yelich from Day 1. Or if people did, they were certainly few and far between.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

But...90% of people who wanted Hiura up weren't expecting him to be the savior. They were expecting him to hit decent enough to be a considerable upgrade from the production that Shaw has provided, with the opportunity for more in the future as he grows. Which is exactly what he has been.

 

I don't know why there is this "I told you so" rhetoric around Hiura. He's doing fine. He needs to cut down on his K's, but for a 22 year old who has been playing professional baseball for all of 2 years, for his first 100 or so ABs, he's been just fine. He's got a 102 OPS+ to Shaw's 48. He absolutely has been a large offensive upgrade over Shaw even already and he'll improve.

 

No one expected him to hit like Christian Yelich from Day 1. Or if people did, they were certainly few and far between.

 

There were certainly people that expected him to be spectacular. But that's neither here nor there, and you are right. He's been ok. And he's far from the biggest problem. I just wish he were more of the solution than he has been, but obviously there's still time.

[Ennder]

As is tradition, the Brewers are complete garbage going in to the All-Star break. #SameOldBrewers.

 

The Brewers went 8-2 before the all star break in 2017. They went 10-4 in 2015. They were bad in 2016 and 2018. It is almost like it is just random noise.

[OnTheBlack]

Analytics have separated the high payrolls from the rest of the pack more than ever before. It’s become too easy to be smart, with all teams having the same information. Used to be high payrolls making the mistake of overpaying. No more. Teams can’t outsmart, baseball is gravitating to superteams, and those teams all have payrolls over 190. Most between 200-240.

 

The brewers, unless their payrolls take a leap upwards to 180+ in real contention years have no chance to win. The tax thresholds should also leap upwards because of the new national tv deals. So everyone should bump up 20 or so. Next year’s high payrolls will be 220-260.

 

Watch the Dodgers Yankees Astros and tell me the brewers have a chance.

 

 

Ok, I don't know how a team with 4 aces and a 5th coming next year would need a 180 million dollar payroll, but whatever.

 

But yeah, there's no difference. It's always been the same, some really good teams, the next tier, teams that could win if they get hot and so on. The Astro's are hardly a new phenomenon. And it took 5 years of them just completely tanking to get there.

 

Also....this was literally the argument I was making to YOU about a month ago. That just upping their payroll and signing one pitches wasn't going to guarantee Ueck or Selig get to see a World Series or that just spending money doesn't guarantee anything. If anything, spending smart if far more important. If the Red Sox weren't still paying Pablo Sandoval they could have spent some money this past off-season. If the Cubs weren't paying Heyward, Darvish among others, they too could have spent money. The Dodgers spent more than any team in baseball history a few years ago and didn't win the WS.

[OnTheBlack]

For the expectations I had for this team, especially from an offensive standpoint, yes, they've been playing like garbage. How many games are our only runs via the home run? How many games are we seeing guys making their MLB debut against us and dominating us, or how many times are pitchers getting their career highs in strikeouts against us? How many games are we going to throw away due to stupid mistakes on the basebath or in the field? How many games is Counsell going to start multiple guys that are struggling even though it's the most winnable game of the series, essentially conceding that game? How many series are we going to lose to teams that we should be beating (even worse, we are barely winning one of the games)?

 

Just because I see the Brewers for what they really are (a very mediocre team that is fortunate to have the record they do and be in the division they are), doesn't make me not a fan. In fact, I'd argue that I'm one of the bigger Brewers fans there are. I had high expectations after last season, and I wasn't happy with the decisions made over the offseason, and I'm definitely happy with how this team has been playing for most of the season. I'm actually more disappointed in this year's team than I was in the 2002 team (even when I was at loss 100 that year).

 

Since my comments are crap it must mean that they are false. If they haven't been playing like garbage lately, how have they been playing? How has their last 4-5 weeks gone, especially compared to how we believed they'd go? Must have gone pretty well if I'm incorrect.

 

The 2002 team, who was really garbage and lost 106 games that year, went 14-16 from June 1 through July 4. Guess how that compares to 2019? Exactly the same, and this year's schedule was "favorable". This team hasn't played better than the 2002 team, so I'd say "garbage" is a justifiable term.

 

 

Wow...this is a comically absurd post. First paragraph, stop asking really stupid rhetorical questions. Why not give us some answers?

 

As for taking a team that lost 102 games and arbitrarily picking a stretch in which they had a similar run as this current team, that may be the single dumbest "justification" I've ever seen! Just comically ridiculous.

 

3rd, "just because I see the Brewers for who they are," really challenges the rest of this post, but could actually be the most obnoxious. This is like someone announcing to people that "I'm just a realist." As if all the rest of the people giving THEIR measured opinions openly call themselves pessimists or optimists.

 

You see the Brewers as YOU see them, not "for who they are." When they're struggling, the most whinny fans will latch on and complain about everything and seemingly revel in the joy they get from doing it. I guess that's normal for a team that's so far out of the playoffs going into the ASB.....right? I mean, if they're garbage, they HAVE to be like last years O's and 60 games back by now? Oh...that's right, they were still atop the division heading into the 4th of July.

[Brew crew 92]

Analytics have separated the high payrolls from the rest of the pack more than ever before. It’s become too easy to be smart, with all teams having the same information. Used to be high payrolls making the mistake of overpaying. No more. Teams can’t outsmart, baseball is gravitating to superteams, and those teams all have payrolls over 190. Most between 200-240.

 

The brewers, unless their payrolls take a leap upwards to 180+ in real contention years have no chance to win. The tax thresholds should also leap upwards because of the new national tv deals. So everyone should bump up 20 or so. Next year’s high payrolls will be 220-260.

 

Watch the Dodgers Yankees Astros and tell me the brewers have a chance.

 

 

Ok, I don't know how a team with 4 aces and a 5th coming next year would need a 180 million dollar payroll, but whatever.

 

But yeah, there's no difference. It's always been the same, some really good teams, the next tier, teams that could win if they get hot and so on. The Astro's are hardly a new phenomenon. And it took 5 years of them just completely tanking to get there.

 

Also....this was literally the argument I was making to YOU about a month ago. That just upping their payroll and signing one pitches wasn't going to guarantee Ueck or Selig get to see a World Series or that just spending money doesn't guarantee anything. If anything, spending smart if far more important. If the Red Sox weren't still paying Pablo Sandoval they could have spent some money this past off-season. If the Cubs weren't paying Heyward, Darvish among others, they too could have spent money. The Dodgers spent more than any team in baseball history a few years ago and didn't win the WS.

 

Tank for 4-6 years and get very very lucky, might work, with the payroll @ 140 or less, but probably not. Even the tanks that do this would need a payroll over 140, imo. We’ll know in the next 3-4 years, with the white Sox, 4-5 with the tigers, 5-7 orioles, we’ll see if any of these teams can do it with a lower half payroll, I predict no, until they spend. The Padres will do it in all likelihood, without the horrible tank, because their payroll will be up close to the high payrolls.

 

We can continue to pretend we have a real chance with a payroll 70-100 less than the superteams, or some day forgo the annual 20-60 mil. Profit and actually spend smart, yes, but spend to at least have a REAL chance to win.

[mtrebs]

For the expectations I had for this team, especially from an offensive standpoint, yes, they've been playing like garbage. How many games are our only runs via the home run? How many games are we seeing guys making their MLB debut against us and dominating us, or how many times are pitchers getting their career highs in strikeouts against us? How many games are we going to throw away due to stupid mistakes on the basebath or in the field? How many games is Counsell going to start multiple guys that are struggling even though it's the most winnable game of the series, essentially conceding that game? How many series are we going to lose to teams that we should be beating (even worse, we are barely winning one of the games)?

 

Just because I see the Brewers for what they really are (a very mediocre team that is fortunate to have the record they do and be in the division they are), doesn't make me not a fan. In fact, I'd argue that I'm one of the bigger Brewers fans there are. I had high expectations after last season, and I wasn't happy with the decisions made over the offseason, and I'm definitely happy with how this team has been playing for most of the season. I'm actually more disappointed in this year's team than I was in the 2002 team (even when I was at loss 100 that year).

 

Since my comments are crap it must mean that they are false. If they haven't been playing like garbage lately, how have they been playing? How has their last 4-5 weeks gone, especially compared to how we believed they'd go? Must have gone pretty well if I'm incorrect.

 

The 2002 team, who was really garbage and lost 106 games that year, went 14-16 from June 1 through July 4. Guess how that compares to 2019? Exactly the same, and this year's schedule was "favorable". This team hasn't played better than the 2002 team, so I'd say "garbage" is a justifiable term.

 

 

Wow...this is a comically absurd post. First paragraph, stop asking really stupid rhetorical questions. Why not give us some answers?

 

As for taking a team that lost 102 games and arbitrarily picking a stretch in which they had a similar run as this current team, that may be the single dumbest "justification" I've ever seen! Just comically ridiculous.

 

3rd, "just because I see the Brewers for who they are," really challenges the rest of this post, but could actually be the most obnoxious. This is like someone announcing to people that "I'm just a realist." As if all the rest of the people giving THEIR measured opinions openly call themselves pessimists or optimists.

 

You see the Brewers as YOU see them, not "for who they are." When they're struggling, the most whinny fans will latch on and complain about everything and seemingly revel in the joy they get from doing it. I guess that's normal for a team that's so far out of the playoffs going into the ASB.....right? I mean, if they're garbage, they HAVE to be like last years O's and 60 games back by now? Oh...that's right, they were still atop the division heading into the 4th of July.

 

These questions are stupid? And asking me to solve them isn't? If I could answer them I'd be part of the MLB front office. The problem is that I don't think the Brewers management has the answer for them. Even worse, I don't know if there is an answer for them. The off-season decisions, along with unfortunate injuries, mind-boggling player regressions, and questionable approaches at the plate have this team with a lot of holes and room for improvement. The point of these questions was that the things I was asking were things that the Brewers keep doing to lose games/series. They keep finding different ways to lose.

 

A 30 game stretch isn't that small of a sample, it's nearly 20% of the season. if this years team can't play better than the worst team in franchise history, than that's a problem, especially considering this was supposed to be the "easy" stretch of the season. Now, 14-16 by itself doesn't seem too bad, but in the games that they are losing they aren't playing good fundamental baseball. That's where the frustration comes in. You play poorly and make stupid mistakes, I'll call your play during that time garbage, no matter what your record is.

 

How do you see the Brewers? Do you think they are more than a mediocre team? Why? What do they do consistently that makes you think that? I struggle to find reasons why someone would think so.

 

I take no joy when watching the Brewers struggle. I am a die-hard fan of this team and had high expectations after last season. They aren't meeting my expectations. A team can still have a decent record and still play like garbage. A lot of people look at their record or standings and see that they still are in it for this season. While that is true, the team's level of play over the last few weeks has been poor, and they could be in a lot better position than where they are at. So you can be happy with where they're at, and that's great. I'm not happy with it, and I'll continue to express my frustration with them until they meet my expectations.

[mtrebs]

As is tradition, the Brewers are complete garbage going in to the All-Star break. #SameOldBrewers.

 

The Brewers went 8-2 before the all star break in 2017. They went 10-4 in 2015. They were bad in 2016 and 2018. It is almost like it is just random noise.

 

I admit that it isn’t always going into the All-Star break when they tend to have their stretch where they can barely win a game. They do often have a mid-season swoon that really hurts their chances. Last year they were able to overcome it with a miraculous run at the end of the season. I would be very surprised if this year’s team can turn it around and do as well as last year.

[Pugger]

It is sort of amazing that the pitching has improved at the exact same time the offense has gone into a complete hibernation.

 

You speak the truth. The pitching in that series in Cincy wasn't bad and we can win with that. But if you can't score it won't matter. It is alarming how poor our hitting is and how prone we are to striking out. If this isn't fixed soon we are toast - even tho we are still tied for first right now. The ONLY reason we aren't in the cellar is because the rest of the division is beating each other up.

[Pugger]

Even the biggest contrarian or Brewer homer ill-equipped to handle any negativity would have to agree that the loss of Derek Johnson has been a double whammy. Not only is the Brewer staff largely in disarray, but Johnson has helped a divisional rival.

 

I think your assertion that the problem is our pitching doesn't hold water. We scored a grand total of 12 runs in that 4 game series and gave up 13. The only reason that doesn't look as dreadful as it actually was is because we scored 8 in the first game and 4 in the final 3. That ain't gonna cut it if we don't turn this mess around quick.

[OnTheBlack]

For the expectations I had for this team, especially from an offensive standpoint, yes, they've been playing like garbage. How many games are our only runs via the home run? How many games are we seeing guys making their MLB debut against us and dominating us, or how many times are pitchers getting their career highs in strikeouts against us? How many games are we going to throw away due to stupid mistakes on the basebath or in the field? How many games is Counsell going to start multiple guys that are struggling even though it's the most winnable game of the series, essentially conceding that game? How many series are we going to lose to teams that we should be beating (even worse, we are barely winning one of the games)?

 

Just because I see the Brewers for what they really are (a very mediocre team that is fortunate to have the record they do and be in the division they are), doesn't make me not a fan. In fact, I'd argue that I'm one of the bigger Brewers fans there are. I had high expectations after last season, and I wasn't happy with the decisions made over the offseason, and I'm definitely happy with how this team has been playing for most of the season. I'm actually more disappointed in this year's team than I was in the 2002 team (even when I was at loss 100 that year).

 

Since my comments are crap it must mean that they are false. If they haven't been playing like garbage lately, how have they been playing? How has their last 4-5 weeks gone, especially compared to how we believed they'd go? Must have gone pretty well if I'm incorrect.

 

The 2002 team, who was really garbage and lost 106 games that year, went 14-16 from June 1 through July 4. Guess how that compares to 2019? Exactly the same, and this year's schedule was "favorable". This team hasn't played better than the 2002 team, so I'd say "garbage" is a justifiable term.

 

 

Wow...this is a comically absurd post. First paragraph, stop asking really stupid rhetorical questions. Why not give us some answers?

 

As for taking a team that lost 102 games and arbitrarily picking a stretch in which they had a similar run as this current team, that may be the single dumbest "justification" I've ever seen! Just comically ridiculous.

 

3rd, "just because I see the Brewers for who they are," really challenges the rest of this post, but could actually be the most obnoxious. This is like someone announcing to people that "I'm just a realist." As if all the rest of the people giving THEIR measured opinions openly call themselves pessimists or optimists.

 

You see the Brewers as YOU see them, not "for who they are." When they're struggling, the most whinny fans will latch on and complain about everything and seemingly revel in the joy they get from doing it. I guess that's normal for a team that's so far out of the playoffs going into the ASB.....right? I mean, if they're garbage, they HAVE to be like last years O's and 60 games back by now? Oh...that's right, they were still atop the division heading into the 4th of July.

 

These questions are stupid? And asking me to solve them isn't? If I could answer them I'd be part of the MLB front office. The problem is that I don't think the Brewers management has the answer for them. Even worse, I don't know if there is an answer for them. The off-season decisions, along with unfortunate injuries, mind-boggling player regressions, and questionable approaches at the plate have this team with a lot of holes and room for improvement. The point of these questions was that the things I was asking were things that the Brewers keep doing to lose games/series. They keep finding different ways to lose.

 

A 30 game stretch isn't that small of a sample, it's nearly 20% of the season. if this years team can't play better than the worst team in franchise history, than that's a problem, especially considering this was supposed to be the "easy" stretch of the season. Now, 14-16 by itself doesn't seem too bad, but in the games that they are losing they aren't playing good fundamental baseball. That's where the frustration comes in. You play poorly and make stupid mistakes, I'll call your play during that time garbage, no matter what your record is.

 

How do you see the Brewers? Do you think they are more than a mediocre team? Why? What do they do consistently that makes you think that? I struggle to find reasons why someone would think so.

 

I take no joy when watching the Brewers struggle. I am a die-hard fan of this team and had high expectations after last season. They aren't meeting my expectations. A team can still have a decent record and still play like garbage. A lot of people look at their record or standings and see that they still are in it for this season. While that is true, the team's level of play over the last few weeks has been poor, and they could be in a lot better position than where they are at. So you can be happy with where they're at, and that's great. I'm not happy with it, and I'll continue to express my frustration with them until they meet my expectations.

 

These questions are stupid?

 

Yes.

 

And asking me to solve them isn't?

 

Nope. If you're going to assert that we're so much worse than the average at about a dozen things, but doing so by asking the question, I don't think it's stupid to ask you to compare how we are vs pitchers making their debut's vs other teams for instance.

If I could answer them I'd be part of the MLB front office.

 

Hmmm...doubt it. You'd still be a reactionary fan comparing this team to the 2002 100 loss team because at one point in the season they had the same or a similar record as that 100 loss team and then using that to justify why this team is so terrible.

 

A 30 game stretch isn't that small of a sample, it's nearly 20% of the season.

 

Nope, but again, you just going back and looking for a team that went 14-16 over 30 games and then randomly trying to compare the two isn't about sample size, it's about ridiculous cherry picking.

The off-season decisions

 

Please list the bevy of poor off-season decisions this team made or why this front office isn't up to the challenge?

So you can be happy with where they're at, and that's great.

 

Please show me where I said I'm "happy" with where they're at? Just because I'm not ranting and finding random obscure stretches with teams that played nearly 20 years ago that were similar to this years team doesn't mean I'm

"happy."

I'm not happy with it, and I'll continue to express my frustration with them until they meet my expectations.

 

Read; I'll continue to nonsensical anecdotal evidence(struggles vs pitchers making their debut?) and stomp my feet and throw a tantrum until they play like I want them to.

 

 

Hey, the Cardinals won the World Series in 2006(So more recently than your random 2002 example) while winning 83 games. And what does that have to do with this years Brewers team? No idea, just thought I'd match your ridiculous comp with another.