Angels pitcher Tyler Skaggs passes away

[OldSchoolSnapper]

He did have TJ done previously and spent a lot of time on the DL even after. It's not out of the realm of possibility he was dealing with a ton of physical pain all the time and started self medicating rather than just partying.

[MrTPlush]

Wish this was shocking, but thus, exactly as expected. Unfortunate tragedy. At least they aren’t trying to retire his number like the Marlins did before any details emerged on how he died. Then it came to light he was drunk and on cocaine.

 

We will see if details emerge on why or how he got it...but not promising to say the least. Maybe he wasn’t using them to get high or whatever...a stretch, but I guess not impossible.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he developed a pain med problem as a result of various injuries. Like anything else, you keep needing more intensity and higher doses as you keep going. It could've been the only way he felt he could pitch. Or he was partying. But without any information and knowing his vast injury history I would say both are about equally likely. And in either case, a team employee should be telling someone there's a problem rather than helping him get more. They should both be in jail if that happened, except he's dead. I don't buy into this mantra going around Twitter right now that it's sad but his fault and so the other person should walk. Asinine way of looking at it, and if that person exists they are culpable here.

[homer]

This might be insensitive but I wish the family hadn't mentioned the Angels employee. That just opens everything up to speculation. Just let the investigation play out.

[JosephC]

Does MLB's drug testing program include fentanyl? And if not, why doesn't it? It certainly wouldn't qualify as a PED, but definitely should rank near the top of the list in the drugs of abuse category. If Skaggs has been a habitual user for awhile (say > 1 year), then MLB should have some questions to answer about it's drug program.

[xisxisxis]

Baseball teams spend about 30% of the year outside their home state. I am sure teams are getting prescriptions filled all the time outside the state where their MD is licensed. It's hard enough for the federal government to track prescriptions in state, without adding in the complication of purchases across 20+ states by the same entity/doctor. The only real people that the current crackdown addresses is people who actually have chronic pain and need to see their doctor every 60 days to get a hand-written prescription for another 60 days of drugs.

 

Slightly off topic, but there are hundreds of prescription drugs that when taken improperly will lead to death. A doctor can only do so much if the patient is not following directions. Just google "prescription drug deaths", the first hit should be a government website. Just look at the numbers. >70,000 in 2017!!!! while a large amount of that is driven by opioids, there has been a large increase in non-opioid related deaths also. This is from PRESCRIPTION DRUGS...

[DHonks]

Done forget that he pitched for the Andes and spent spring training in Phoenix. Not only are these drugs readily available, they’re dirt cheap and more readily available in Mexico. I knew someone that claimed to supply a lot of MLB’s supply of greenies, thanks to proximity to Mexico. This person didn’t feel they were doing anything wrong, and didn’t make any money on it. It was just a favor.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

This might be insensitive but I wish the family hadn't mentioned the Angels employee. That just opens everything up to speculation. Just let the investigation play out.

 

Thought the same thing, but the police were asking for that to happen by telling them.

[DHonks]

It's ridiculously irresponsible to speculate who supplied what, what Skaggs knew, and then to cast blame and responsibility for stuff none of us knows anything about.

 

If it turns out that something happened and drugs entered his body other than his own doing I'll apologize. 15 years around law enforcement will bet you that's not the case.

 

Pretty sure that's not at all what he meant. More like, we have no clue how he got them. It could have been a doctor, he could have had access he shouldn't have had, he could've stolen them. It could have been a damn clubhouse attendant with a hook up. We have no idea.

 

when my brother died of an overdose, my dad wanted to blame the person using with him or the person that sold it to him. But it was my brother. You use drugs for 25+ years, and you're playing Russian roulette every time. Especially since we know that neighborhood drug dealers care about quality control and stand behind the products they're peddling.

[MadScientist]

He did have TJ done previously and spent a lot of time on the DL even after. It's not out of the realm of possibility he was dealing with a ton of physical pain all the time and started self medicating rather than just partying.

 

More to the point, there's a very real possibility that the painkillers prescribed by the doctor do deal with the pain for the surgery was sufficient for Skaggs to become addicted. Besides prescriptions being for far too many pills, the instructions will say a maximum frequency whereas other medicines, like antibiotics, say the schedule you need to take them. If you take the opioids at the schedule on the bottle, there is a good chance of becoming addicted.

[LouisEly]

No young man without a crippling disease is going to have a script for Fentanyl especially in the era of the Opioid Crisis where the Federal government scrutinizes providers writing scripts for opioids.. People with laminectomies, knee replacements, amputations get Fentanyl. Not young otherwise healthy pro athletes.

I have two really good friends who are ICE agents. Despite what you hear in the news, the two biggest priorities and problems that ICE is tasked with right now are heroine and cocaine coming up from Central America and Fentanyl being smuggled in from China.

 

Unfortunately, Fentanyl can be obtained without a prescription.

[jerichoholicninja]

I have no idea how anyone can take a couple of pills like these let alone take enough that they become addicted. I've twice had them prescribed for me. The first time after major surgery and the side effects from one pill were so bad I decided that I would rather have the pain than the side effects and didn't take another. The second time they just gave them to me and I never even took one.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I couldn't even handle Vicodin that was prescribed but everyone will react to this stuff completely different.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I have no idea how anyone can take a couple of pills like these let alone take enough that they become addicted.

 

 

As OSS said, reactions are different for everyone.

 

I had TJ surgery a long long time ago (not in a galaxy far far away) and had vicodin prescribed for me. Once I decided I wasn't in pain enough to need the meds and tried to stop taking them, that was a monkey that was harder to kick than I expected. After a while, your body just expects it.

 

I take anti-seizure meds now, and at one point my doctor tried to lower my dosage because it was messing with my ability to do my job properly, and after 3 days of a lower dosage, I was getting the shakes, I was sweating, my heart was pounding, and all this was from a non-narcotic, non opioid med.

 

Someone else might not have this problem at all. Someone else might have it worse. I think this is all stuff that people academically are aware of, but I just think it bears repeating. Addiction is weird, and sometimes it creeps up on you. Yes, taking drugs is a personal choice, even necessary, prescribed drugs are a choice, but addiction is insidious. It happens before you're aware of it.

 

It's like weight gain. You can suddenly step on a scale and be like "whoa, when did this happen?" And people say "well just don't eat, how did you not know you were gaining weight?" Instead of demonizing people and saying "just don't do drugs" I think it helps to understand the mechanics of how addiction happens.

[HiAndTight]

I have no idea how anyone can take a couple of pills like these let alone take enough that they become addicted.

 

 

As OSS said, reactions are different for everyone.

 

I had TJ surgery a long long time ago (not in a galaxy far far away) and had vicodin prescribed for me. Once I decided I wasn't in pain enough to need the meds and tried to stop taking them, that was a monkey that was harder to kick than I expected. After a while, your body just expects it.

 

I take anti-seizure meds now, and at one point my doctor tried to lower my dosage because it was messing with my ability to do my job properly, and after 3 days of a lower dosage, I was getting the shakes, I was sweating, my heart was pounding, and all this was from a non-narcotic, non opioid med.

 

Someone else might not have this problem at all. Someone else might have it worse. I think this is all stuff that people academically are aware of, but I just think it bears repeating. Addiction is weird, and sometimes it creeps up on you. Yes, taking drugs is a personal choice, even necessary, prescribed drugs are a choice, but addiction is insidious. It happens before you're aware of it.

 

It's like weight gain. You can suddenly step on a scale and be like "whoa, when did this happen?" And people say "well just don't eat, how did you not know you were gaining weight?" Instead of demonizing people and saying "just don't do drugs" I think it helps to understand the mechanics of how addiction happens.

 

 

You're absolutely right. I had a dozen or so surgeries in about a 4 year span. Most weren't major, torn acl, torn rotator cuff, had my hip cleaned out...etc...etc..

 

When I was done with sports I had a couple bigger surgeries. A complete reconstructive shoulder surgery, hip replacement(at 25). For the shoulder surgery, that was extremely painful. And it was right around the time Oxy's were coming out. I'd never had a problem with my meds. The first few days after the surgery I needed them, then I'd forget and only take them when it was hurting.

 

For the shoulder surgery, they sent me home with a nerve blocker and fentanyl patches. This was the most painful surgery I'd had. They butcher it to, but another story. They had to cadaver ligaments to replace the ACL and rotator cuff in the shoulder, they....well, they did a bunch of stuff. But when I went to the doctor 5 days after the surgery, I was feeling better. I told him the pain was getting better. Still in pain, but nothing too bad. He wrote a script for 80MG Oxy Contins, twice a day...and put 5 refills on there. This was when Purdue pharma was in it's heyday and I'd never heard of an Oxy before. I went down to Florida after about 2 weeks. I'd forgotten my pills at home. I got so sick...and I was so clueless as to why, I went to a hospital. They told me I was in withdrawal. I was....well, I was pissed. I got the rundown about how in one 80 MG Oxy, that's equal to 16 percocets and they were supposed to be used for burn victims, cancer patients....etc...

 

 

I stayed in the hospital for a day and a half...got back to the hotel, spent the rest of the time in my room and when I got home, I got rid of the rest of them and then literally called my pharmacy and told them to cancel that. I was so lucky that I didn't know about pain pills at THAT TIME and that I'd gone on vacation and forgotten them, forcing me to stop taking them before it got too bad, otherwise, I don't know if I ever would have stopped. At the time, I didn't think I was that messed up, but I remember my family saying how bad I looked and how I'd lost a lot of weight.

 

But....it was a doctor writing the script.

 

Went on to have another 9-10 surgeries since then. I'll still take oxycodone or something that's not too strong, but I'm hypervigilant now. I was probably a week or two away from being a full-blown addict and then 5 months(the refills) away from even knowing it.

 

 

A lot of this started with the pharmaceutical company pushing legislation, one bill actually forced the Doctor to give pain medication to someone who said they were in pain, even if the Doctors could not find any cause for the pain. And they famously argued that only 1 pct of people who are prescribed opiates become addicted, inaccurately citing the New England Journal of Medicine.

 

 

 

I've known a lot of people who've died from my HS or community since Oxy Contins became big in the early 2000's. It really is a shame.

[HiAndTight]

They should absolutely find the person supplying the drugs. I see this all the time. The dealer will receive incredible amount of hate (which he should) but people forget that Tyler was the one who probably sought out the drugs. I have very little sympathy for those that choose to go down that path. I feel sad for the family.

 

If that makes me a jerk then so be it but I've had friends killed because people made bad decisions.

 

 

I'd say it makes you a person who shows very little empathy, who thinks it's more important to feel righteous when someone ELSE dies and to offer platitudes or stupid, childlike cliches like, "actions have consequences."

 

It also suggests to me that you're entirely ignorant about addiction and you very much like being holier than thou.

 

 

I tried to ignore you, but please, in the future, just write, "he got what he deserved," when talking about someone who died of an accidental overdose. That's pretty much what you're saying and it's pretty disgusting.

[HiAndTight]

He did have TJ done previously and spent a lot of time on the DL even after. It's not out of the realm of possibility he was dealing with a ton of physical pain all the time and started self medicating rather than just partying.

 

More to the point, there's a very real possibility that the painkillers prescribed by the doctor do deal with the pain for the surgery was sufficient for Skaggs to become addicted. Besides prescriptions being for far too many pills, the instructions will say a maximum frequency whereas other medicines, like antibiotics, say the schedule you need to take them. If you take the opioids at the schedule on the bottle, there is a good chance of becoming addicted.

 

 

 

You also can absolutely get fentanyl patches if you've had multiple surgeries and you've built up a tolerance to regular opiates.

 

The very last surgery I had was for a broken wrist..and it was embarrassing, I broke it slipping while playing tennis trying to break my fall.

 

But my chart had all my history and the doctor said to me Vicodin may not work and actually discussed a fentanyl patch.

I passed and since it wasn't a bad break, I didn't really need anything, but that's not the point. The point is, it's prescribed for more than people think. I could have taken some and sold them.

 

So it can be a reckless doctor, it can be a doctor legitimately trying to treat his pain...but I do find those a bit unlikely now given the emphasis on them, but it's not all just coming from a cartel and a shady guy on the corner.

[BigAlBarampGrill]

I have two really good friends who are ICE agents. Despite what you hear in the news, the two biggest priorities and problems that ICE is tasked with right now are heroine and cocaine coming up from Central America and Fentanyl being smuggled in from China.

 

You're friends are correct. Street heroin without fentanyl is still huge. The West side of Chicago has one of the largest heroin markets in the U.S. and crack cocaine is still being used. Don't forget crack nearly destroyed our inner cities in the late 90's and early 90's but I don't think people cared much.

[Baldkin]

I have no idea how anyone can take a couple of pills like these let alone take enough that they become addicted.

 

Addiction is a disease. It's a disease that lays dormant in people until the right conditions are meant, and then a switch flips.

 

What you said is similar to saying "I don't know how people can just get skin cancer. I've never had skin cancer, and I don't plan on getting it and I spend lots of time in the sun."

 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra1511480

[JosephC]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27554568/mlb-weighing-opioid-testing-skaggs-death

 

From the article:

"MLB does not currently test major league players for opioids, though they are on the league's banned-substance list."

 

MLB may be able to claim that they have the toughest drug testing policy when it comes to PED, but obviously their "drugs of abuse" program is completely worthless. On the banned-substance list, but not tested for? That makes no sense. I'd be pretty embarrassed if I was a "higher up" in MLB and the paying customers/general public is reading stuff like that.

[xisxisxis]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27554568/mlb-weighing-opioid-testing-skaggs-death

 

From the article:

"MLB does not currently test major league players for opioids, though they are on the league's banned-substance list."

 

MLB may be able to claim that they have the toughest drug testing policy when it comes to PED, but obviously their "drugs of abuse" program is completely worthless. On the banned-substance list, but not tested for? That makes no sense. I'd be pretty embarrassed if I was a "higher up" in MLB and the paying customers/general public is reading stuff like that.

Before grabbing the pitchforks, it might be good to think about this for a few minutes. This doesn't require a PhD in Chemistry... Why wouldn't they test for it if they COULD? How often do professional athletes who take steroid take them? Every few hours like pain killers/opiates? Why not? The active ingredients in Marijuana (banned substance) and Testosterone (PED/banned) and it's derivatives are highly stable molecules that linger for a long time. Marijuana can be picked up 30+ days after use. Opiates are not stable. From my experience the minute you collect blood, it begins to change. How fast something degrades/disappears depends on it's stability outside the body in a vial which is no longer at physiologic temperature. It is very likely that to measure opiates, MLB would need to completely change the way they collect specimens. Realistically they are testing for everything they can test for given the way they collect and test. Does that mean they will miss some? Yes, but it's hardly intentional neglect. It's what's pragmatic given how they can reliably collect/test.

[mtrebs]

I have no idea how anyone can take a couple of pills like these let alone take enough that they become addicted.

 

Addiction is a disease. It's a disease that lays dormant in people until the right conditions are meant, and then a switch flips.

 

What you said is similar to saying "I don't know how people can just get skin cancer. I've never had skin cancer, and I don't plan on getting it and I spend lots of time in the sun."

 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra1511480

 

While I agree that addictions are a disease, the difference between addictions and other diseases is that addictions are preventable. If a person never took the substance in the first place they wouldn’t have an addiction. The same cannot be said for most other diseases. Now, there are valid uses of some of these substances, and ignorance and information could lead into it, but again the root cause is that the substance was taken. This difference is likely what causes the different mindsets against addictions vs. other diseases.