Coaching Staff

[jerichoholicninja]

A microcosm of coaching this season in today’s game...

 

1st and 3rd 1 out, Hiura and Thames swinging for the downs instead of putting the ball in play.

 

Pirates man on 3rd 1 out, Newman goes with pitch to RF to drive in run. 1st and 3rd 1 out, Musgrove, a pitcher, lays down a bunt to get run on board.

 

This team this year could use more situational hitting rather than trying to hit HR constantly.

 

Considering this is an issue all across baseball, I can't blame the Brewers coaches. Players are taught to swing out of their shoes every swing, regardless of the situation. The fact that so few players in MLB change their approach with the situation totally baffles me.

[Jopal78]

Pro baseball players have been swinging a bat and pitching a ball most days for their entire life. After having ascended the mountain to the major leagues on their own merit; I’m skeptical how many players even tune in to what a coach is preaching.

 

Maybe philosophically speaking, but with tens of millions of dollars at stake for the players I’m sure they go with their gut first and maybe in a slump hear what the coach has to suggest

 

Therefore, it’s the talent in the roster that makes the coaches look good. DJ isn’t going to magically transform Wilkerson into a front line starter; that’s all nonsense

[Warning Track Power]

I stand by my statement in an in game thread. This is easily my least favorite Brewer season in memory. I’m 37 and remember the early 2000s quite vividly. The NL was supposed to be jammed packed and very competitive but the lack of effectiveness of Chacin, Burnes, Peralta, etc... and the regression of Shaw, Cain and Aguilar (even though he’s showing signs of improvement) have made for expectations that haven’t been met and they should have reasonably been expected to continue. I hope I am wrong but this team looks dead. And for all you Stearns defenders (I am one of them) he’s greatly at fault for his hirings of the pitching/hitting coaches and the way he’s built this team with multiple redundant players (Thames, Aguilar, Shaw, Moustakas, Grandal).

[owbc]

Based on run differential one could argue that coaching (and luck) are the only things keeping this team above .500. Frankly it's amazing this team is where they are right now, nothing about the numbers would suggest they should be competing for a division title. And if they were in any other division they would be double-digit games out of first.

 

If the coaching staff somehow wills this team to the playoffs they all deserve raises and extensions.

[TURBO]

The guy who should be on the hot seat is the guy who let DJ go. They should have paid the man, even if that meant it was too much, obviously, too much was not TOO MUCH!

[Brew crew 92]

You don't trade a guy because of one out-of-context sentence.

 

Your probably right there.

 

But that’s not why I’m trading him, I’m gonna get value back for a middling starter that starts to get expensive next year.

 

I was wrong in wanting to trade Davies at this year’s deadline, I was looking for an excuse to trade him, because I don’t like him, but we need him in the rotation the rest of this year.

[Wahoo Maniac]

A microcosm of coaching this season in today’s game...

 

1st and 3rd 1 out, Hiura and Thames swinging for the downs instead of putting the ball in play.

 

Pirates man on 3rd 1 out, Newman goes with pitch to RF to drive in run. 1st and 3rd 1 out, Musgrove, a pitcher, lays down a bunt to get run on board.

 

This team this year could use more situational hitting rather than trying to hit HR constantly.

I've seen every inning of every game this year and never once have I said to myself that Hiura was swinging for the fence. Thames will do it occasionally if the pitch he's looking for is there otherwise both of those guys have hard, controlled swings. Not to mention, Thames K's a lot to begin with and Hiura is like he was starting AAA with a high K rate as he's still adjusting. Just because they K with runners in scoring position doesn't mean they're swinging for the fence.

 

Also, "putting the ball in play" is little league mentality. An infield pop up, routine grounder at a corner IF (or anywhere if they're playing in across the board), shallow fly ball, etc don't drive in runs. This notion that all someone has to do is "put the ball in play" and runs are automatically scored is a fallacy.

[Wahoo Maniac]

I stand by my statement in an in game thread. This is easily my least favorite Brewer season in memory. I’m 37 and remember the early 2000s quite vividly. The NL was supposed to be jammed packed and very competitive but the lack of effectiveness of Chacin, Burnes, Peralta, etc... and the regression of Shaw, Cain and Aguilar (even though he’s showing signs of improvement) have made for expectations that haven’t been met and they should have reasonably been expected to continue. I hope I am wrong but this team looks dead. And for all you Stearns defenders (I am one of them) he’s greatly at fault for his hirings of the pitching/hitting coaches and the way he’s built this team with multiple redundant players (Thames, Aguilar, Shaw, Moustakas, Grandal).

I know, right? Acquiring All-Star players in Moose and Grandal. What was he thinking?

 

Thames has done nothing but perform while he's been here outside of the final 2 months last year (also had an injury prior to his bench role rest of that season). Aguilar was very good in 2017, excellent first half 2018, decent second half 2018, struggled hard this April and has had a solid BA/OBP for May/June was just missing his power and it appears that's starting to come back now. Shaw was very good in 2017/2018 and has hit a wall this year.

 

I just recently joined the site and have followed here and there for a bit previously but I'm guessing there was no fake outrage at Stearns prior to 2019 for acquiring the wrong type of player when all these guys were performing.

[Brew crew 92]

A microcosm of coaching this season in today’s game...

 

1st and 3rd 1 out, Hiura and Thames swinging for the downs instead of putting the ball in play.

 

Pirates man on 3rd 1 out, Newman goes with pitch to RF to drive in run. 1st and 3rd 1 out, Musgrove, a pitcher, lays down a bunt to get run on board.

 

This team this year could use more situational hitting rather than trying to hit HR constantly.

I've seen every inning of every game this year and never once have I said to myself that Hiura was swinging for the fence. Thames will do it occasionally if the pitch he's looking for is there otherwise both of those guys have hard, controlled swings. Not to mention, Thames K's a lot to begin with and Hiura is like he was starting AAA with a high K rate as he's still adjusting. Just because they K with runners in scoring position doesn't mean they're swinging for the fence.

 

Also, "putting the ball in play" is little league mentality. An infield pop up, routine grounder at a corner IF (or anywhere if they're playing in across the board), shallow fly ball, etc don't drive in runs. This notion that all someone has to do is "put the ball in play" and runs are automatically scored is a fallacy.

 

We need a couple hitters CAPABLE to go the other way. Right now we have two, Yelich and Cain, and Cain might be a shell the rest of this year because of his thumb. This lineup is laden with power hitters, and 90% of those types of hitters aren’t bat to ball capable. Yelich is, that’s why he’s a superstar. We have another in Hiura, but he’s probably 300-600 PAs away from that. Grisham would possibly be one, that’s why I’d like to see him up in place of Cain, with Cain to the IL.

 

I think Stearns recognizes he needs players with better hit tools, bat to ball skills, and his last 3 drafts have shown me he believes that, Hiura Turang, others etc.

[Wahoo Maniac]

You don't trade a guy because of one out-of-context sentence.

 

Your probably right there.

 

But that’s not why I’m trading him, I’m gonna get value back for a middling starter that starts to get expensive next year.

 

I was wrong in wanting to trade Davies at this year’s deadline, I was looking for an excuse to trade him, because I don’t like him, but we need him in the rotation the rest of this year.

This is what I've noticed in my brief time posting here. I'm glad you're honest about it. If people aren't going to objectively discuss players then they should state their dislike as a disclaimer so people don't put too much stock into what they're saying.

We all have players we like more than others or even players we just don't care for at all as that's just the reality of it when it comes to anything - we're humans. But lets at least admit it when it happens, like you did here.

[Wahoo Maniac]

A microcosm of coaching this season in today’s game...

 

1st and 3rd 1 out, Hiura and Thames swinging for the downs instead of putting the ball in play.

 

Pirates man on 3rd 1 out, Newman goes with pitch to RF to drive in run. 1st and 3rd 1 out, Musgrove, a pitcher, lays down a bunt to get run on board.

 

This team this year could use more situational hitting rather than trying to hit HR constantly.

I've seen every inning of every game this year and never once have I said to myself that Hiura was swinging for the fence. Thames will do it occasionally if the pitch he's looking for is there otherwise both of those guys have hard, controlled swings. Not to mention, Thames K's a lot to begin with and Hiura is like he was starting AAA with a high K rate as he's still adjusting. Just because they K with runners in scoring position doesn't mean they're swinging for the fence.

 

Also, "putting the ball in play" is little league mentality. An infield pop up, routine grounder at a corner IF (or anywhere if they're playing in across the board), shallow fly ball, etc don't drive in runs. This notion that all someone has to do is "put the ball in play" and runs are automatically scored is a fallacy.

 

We need a couple hitters CAPABLE to go the other way. Right now we have two, Yelich and Cain, and Cain might be a shell the rest of this year because of his thumb. This lineup is laden with power hitters, and 90% of those types of hitters aren’t bat to ball capable. Yelich is, that’s why he’s a superstar. We have another in Hiura, but he’s probably 300-600 PAs away from that. Grisham would possibly be one, that’s why I’d like to see him up in place of Cain, with Cain to the IL.

 

I think Stearns recognizes he needs players with better hit tools, bat to ball skills, and his last 3 drafts have shown me he believes that, Hiura Turang, others etc.

Cain, Yelich, Braun, Hiura, Aguilar spray the ball. You're saying Braun/Hiura/Aguilar lack the skill set/ability to do so and that's not true. Yelich does it better than anyone right now and typically Cain is right up there but, you're right, his thumb is clearly affecting his play. Braun still goes oppo/middle plenty but not as often as he did when he was in his prime and that's where his funks come into play, when he tries to pull everything. Yesterday I posted his numbers this year in the Braun thread going on as you typically don't hit that high BA wise if you're pulling everything (ie his 10 game slump in mid-April go back and watch film on it if possible and you'll see he tried to pull everything - literally everything - and it resulted in terrible ABs. When Braun has his middle approach he's still a 290 hitter. Pay attention to this the next time he starts rolling over left and right when he slumps as it's obvious). When Aguilar performs the way he's capable of (ie 270/330/830 - not his AS numbers) he goes oppo plenty and has a good approach. It's why Moose/Grandal will never be 300 hitters - they're not all pull but their comfort zone is pull so they do so more often than having that balanced spray approach. Hiura started being pull heavy when first came up but he's settled into his spraying everywhere.

 

I agree with you that Stearns is looking for players that not only have great bat to ball skills but also an advanced approach at the plate except these players aren't a dime a dozen. That's the problem. I'm sure that's one of the things he really likes about Dubon when acquiring him. Dubon, Hiura, Turang all have that advanced approach combined with great bat to ball skills. Grisham he didn't acquire but no doubt it's one thing he likes about him too. It'd be a heck of a season if Grisham made his MLB debut this year.

[tmwiese55]

Also, not sure if bears out in the numbers but it seems Moose is drastically better at going oppo this year than he was in his stint with us last last year. Seemed like last year was all pull for pop ups or HRs. this year my eye test is a clear improvement and probably why he's been a better hitter this year overall, hope it's backed if someone wants to dig it up.

 

To the topic of "better approaches with RISP in general and with less than 2 outs." While of course it can always be better, I think it was posted recently that it's noticeably better than last year and to my eye test I think that's been the case as well.

 

So, to me in general I'd say I see a slight improvement from the hitting coach this year but nothing drastic. to me, seems like better oppo approaches and better ABs with RISP and less than 2 outs.

 

For pitching coach, well as GOB would say "we've made a huge mistake"

[wntrtxn21]

A microcosm of coaching this season in today’s game...

 

1st and 3rd 1 out, Hiura and Thames swinging for the downs instead of putting the ball in play.

 

Pirates man on 3rd 1 out, Newman goes with pitch to RF to drive in run. 1st and 3rd 1 out, Musgrove, a pitcher, lays down a bunt to get run on board.

 

This team this year could use more situational hitting rather than trying to hit HR constantly.

I've seen every inning of every game this year and never once have I said to myself that Hiura was swinging for the fence. Thames will do it occasionally if the pitch he's looking for is there otherwise both of those guys have hard, controlled swings. Not to mention, Thames K's a lot to begin with and Hiura is like he was starting AAA with a high K rate as he's still adjusting. Just because they K with runners in scoring position doesn't mean they're swinging for the fence.

 

Also, "putting the ball in play" is little league mentality. An infield pop up, routine grounder at a corner IF (or anywhere if they're playing in across the board), shallow fly ball, etc don't drive in runs. This notion that all someone has to do is "put the ball in play" and runs are automatically scored is a fallacy.

 

There are many times where a routine grounder scores a runner from third if the INF. is conceding the run to get an out. Putting a ball in play with the INF drawn in may find a hole and score a run. If the hitter can go to the right side with a runner on 2B with no outs, that routine grounder puts a runner at 3B. How often have "shallow fly balls" fallen in for hits, especially at big ball parks? If a team is playing the no-doubles defense those shallow fly balls become hits and baserunners. It's not "all he has to do is put the ball in play". It's put the ball in play rather than strikeout, especially with RISP. Putting a ball in play rather than whiff may result in a hit or any one of 9 players' errors. The only negative is a possible DP.

[Lathund]

Also, not sure if bears out in the numbers but it seems Moose is drastically better at going oppo this year than he was in his stint with us last last year. Seemed like last year was all pull for pop ups or HRs. this year my eye test is a clear improvement and probably why he's been a better hitter this year overall, hope it's backed if someone wants to dig it up.

 

Moose is going opposite more, 29% this year vs 19% last year with the Brewers.

 

The intereresting thing about this debate though is that the rate of going to the opposite field isn't really some kind of indication one way or another of how well someone is doing. Moustakas improved by going opposite field more, Yelich emerged as an MVP by doing the exact opposite thing; his 19% oppo rate (lowest on the team) this year is down from something close to the same 29% as in his Marlins years. Just like Trent Grisham is pulling the ball more than ever as he is having a breakout year. This is because pulling fly balls is a good thing, it's only when you hit a lot of grounders that pulling the ball is bad. If you hit the ball more out in front of the plate, that tends to lead to more fly balls and to pulling the ball more, which is essentially what Yelich is doing, and it's why his fly ball % is soaring as well without making his swing an uppercut one; if the ball is hit earlier in flight, it's higher up, and even a level swing will hit it with more of an upwards trajectory than it normally would.

 

Combine that with the effects of the very much juiced baseballs, and pulling the ball more is even more incentivized as it turns warning track outs into homers. When/if they dejuice the balls this is likely to change to a degree, but for now it makes sense to take advantage of it. Of course it's not some magical solution, not everyone is suited to doing this. If someone like Braun has lost some bat speed, trying to do this regularly might end with a ton of strikeouts and nothing to show for it, and going more to the opposite field makes sense. Those without a great deal of power should probably still not sell out for pulled fly balls, but for Yelich, Grandal, Thames it makes a ton of sense.

[tmwiese55]

Good post Lathund, well said. I think in general it would be most applicable to the 2 strike approach and RISP situations being discussed. With the shifts for lefties, a guy like Moose can easily pick up a ton of OPS just by simply putting the ball in play to the opposite field. Others, as you say, its not so much of a factor or clear area to improve.

[balsamlaker]

If you were DJ, which (talent-wise) pitching staff would you want to coach? When Chase Anderson is your highest paid starter, you are probably going to get average starts. IMO this is an average (talent) team that probably overachieved some last year.

[Warning Track Power]

I stand by my statement in an in game thread. This is easily my least favorite Brewer season in memory. I’m 37 and remember the early 2000s quite vividly. The NL was supposed to be jammed packed and very competitive but the lack of effectiveness of Chacin, Burnes, Peralta, etc... and the regression of Shaw, Cain and Aguilar (even though he’s showing signs of improvement) have made for expectations that haven’t been met and they should have reasonably been expected to continue. I hope I am wrong but this team looks dead. And for all you Stearns defenders (I am one of them) he’s greatly at fault for his hirings of the pitching/hitting coaches and the way he’s built this team with multiple redundant players (Thames, Aguilar, Shaw, Moustakas, Grandal).

I know, right? Acquiring All-Star players in Moose and Grandal. What was he thinking?

 

Thames has done nothing but perform while he's been here outside of the final 2 months last year (also had an injury prior to his bench role rest of that season). Aguilar was very good in 2017, excellent first half 2018, decent second half 2018, struggled hard this April and has had a solid BA/OBP for May/June was just missing his power and it appears that's starting to come back now. Shaw was very good in 2017/2018 and has hit a wall this year.

 

I just recently joined the site and have followed here and there for a bit previously but I'm guessing there was no fake outrage at Stearns prior to 2019 for acquiring the wrong type of player when all these guys were performing.

My point in stating that Stearns has acquired multiple redundant players isn't to criticize them individually. As you have pointed out, Moustakas and Grandal are both All Stars and that is great! However, when you have a team that is completely dependent on HR and slugging to win games, you will go into the tank when the power inevitably disappears for periods of time. This is why guys like Cain 2018-vintage are so valuable. A professional hitter is quite valuable when the power goes out. Thames/Aguilar & Moustakas/Shaw are essentially the same type of player, heavily dependent on HR and slugging. I would gladly take a Lucroy/Overbay type hitter, high AVG/doubles power, at this point in time.

 

If Cain returns to form and the Brewers simply pepper in another Cain-type player or two (perhaps its Hiura), I think it will go a long way to avoiding the offensive slumps we are seeing. Because quite frankly, they don't have the pitching to withstand the power outages they have been encountering.

[PeaveyFury]

This is why guys like Cain 2018-vintage are so valuable.

 

For all of the valid (or invalid) theories about why this team has underperformed, this one doesn't get discussed enough. Many predicted that Cain would slide over the length of his contract, but I don't know if anyone in the fanbase or FO could have envisioned him going from All-Star/MVP candidate-level production to replacement level in just one year.

[tmwiese55]

Yea Cain falling this badly is probably the biggest thing hurting the offense. As WTP just said, so many other guys are power hit or miss types, he was the counter to that with high contact and high OBP to maintain some consistency. Even a slight reduction from last year, as expected, would've been fine but a complete falloff really hurts. If it is really because of this thumb, maybe that therapy and this time off will let him get back to a semblance of his old self. Combine that with Hiura and then you add in two high contact guys you didn't have the first half. it really should help and we kind of need it as I'm sure Moose and Grandal have a bit of regression coming, heck Yelich too.

[TURBO]

I figured we'd get two productive seasons, and the last 3 would be sliding off...

 

I didn't however think that he would be as good as he was last year, or as bad as he has been this year.

 

If this continues, we have another giant weight on our backs that a team like ours can't afford.

[brooks_quichenick]

I don't think Lorenzo Cain's ability has dropped off due to age or anything, it's 100% related to his thumb. Whether that will ever heal enough for him to return to his 2018 level is another question. At least his defense is still incredible, and that makes him valuable regardless of the bat. But hopefully the cryotherapy treats him well enough for the remainder of this season/postseason and then a full offseason gets him back to where he needs to be.

[pacopete4]

Cain simply isn’t hitting the ball hard and hasn’t had a good eye at the plate. It has been bad. Very bad. And it’s really hurt this offense.

[nate82]

Cain simply isn’t hitting the ball hard and hasn’t had a good eye at the plate. It has been bad. Very bad. And it’s really hurt this offense.

 

This is not true. Cain's hard hit % is above his career average of 30.5%, for 2019 his hard hit % is at 33.7% he has taken a dip from last year which was his highest of his career in a full season in the majors. Only thing that is alarming about Cain is his IFFB% which is at 11.5% this year. A positive for Cain is that he is having a career year with his LD% at 25.1% the highest he has ever had in the majors.

 

Cain's O-Swing% is up from last year but is still below his career average and his Z-Swing% is up from last year but is below his career average. Cain has been fine with his plate discipline. The biggest reason you are seeing Cain struggle this year is his low BABIP which is significantly below his career average. If Cain can continue his LD% into the second half I expect him to rebound nicely. I wouldn't be surprised if Cain starts hitting closer to his career average during the 2nd half of the season.