Coaching Staff

[Warning Track Power]

This a question to start a discussion. Taking a step back from last year and the successes that were had. If Counsell weren’t from Whitefish Bay, would he be on the hot seat? I understand that he’s an amazing manager for the most part, however his coaching staff leaves a ton to be desired. I think you can sum up 2019 frustrations in two words...Hook and Haines. You have to assume he had a big hand in hiring these guys and they have been tremendous busts. We rarely talk about Counsell being responsible but should be shoulder more of the blame from us fans? His entire team has regressed for the most part. I’m just worried we give him a free pass because “he’s one of us.”

[brewers888]

The downgrade from Johnson to Hook was huge just look at what Cincinnati is doing pitching wise vs what we have done. Haines I believe is an upgrade from Coles who wasn't very good.

 

Honestly I just don't think this team is all that talented and without Johnson getting outstanding results out of a mostly talentless staff we are where we are.

 

I think this team is very reminiscent of many of the Melvin teams; it's a stars and scrubs roster. We have three position players playing at an all star or better level and the other five position players being mostly scrubs though that should change with Hiura back in the lineup. The pitching staff has one starter in Woodruff with top of the rotation stuff along with a bunch of 4th and 5th starter types. Hader is the only top bullpen guy though I think Houser can be very good as well.

 

When you look at this roster who has the upside to be much better than they currently are. To me the answer to that is Houser, Burnes, and Peralta and Hiura among the position players. Bottom line to me is we greatly overachieved last season and without the magic wand of Derek Johnson we just aren't good enough. I don't blame Counsell for this subpar roster but I do blame either he or Stearns for letting Johnson and even Tunnell go. I just hope we don't gut what is left of a subpar system for short term upgrades when we just aren't a very talented team.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I think there's been a lot of "blame" put on Stearns and/or Counsell for letting Johnson go, but maybe he wanted another challenge. Maybe he didn't like Milwaukee? Maybe the amount of money he was offered in Cinci was just way too much? There comes a point in time where you just can't keep matching an offer. Maybe he felt he needed to prove himself again so he could get himself in line for a managerial position?

 

It's just like free agents when people say "why didn't we sign Kimbrel/Keuchel/or some other random free agent"? There's always reasons someone doesn't sign in a city, and it's not always just money.

 

That being said, Chris Hook currently doesn't appear to be getting the best out of his guys, but it's been half of one season, so as much as it sucks to say it, I'd give him at least the one season before I'd cut bait with the guy to see if he can turn some of these young guys around.

[MadThinker88]

Being far removed and rarely seeing Brewers games anymore, what is the thoughts on bullpen coach Steve Karsay??

 

He appeared to do a fine job for many years working up the Cleveland farm system before spending the past few years in Columbus (AAA). Although Francona turned over the pitching side of his big-league staff the past few seasons, Karsay never seemed to get a chance so I wasn't surprised he departed for other opportunities...

[Eye Black]

Generally I think baseball managers and coaches get a disproportionate amount of the credit (positive or negative) for the team’s performance.

 

That being said, I did think Zach Davies comments the other day were slightly eyebrow raising. Maybe there was nothing to it as Adam McCalvy later suggested, but why acknowledge making the mistake of relying on someone else to know what’s best for you, followed by the comment “that’s not to point fingers” if something wasn’t slightly amiss? At the very least it wasn’t exactly a ringing endorsement of the coaching staff having a positive impact on Zach Davies while he worked through his struggles.

[TJseven7]

Generally I think baseball managers and coaches get a disproportionate amount of the credit (positive or negative) for the team’s performance.

 

That being said, I did think Zach Davies comments the other day were slightly eyebrow raising. Maybe there was nothing to it as Adam McCalvy later suggested, but why acknowledge making the mistake of relying on someone else to know what’s best for you, followed by the comment “that’s not to point fingers” if something wasn’t slightly amiss? At the very least it wasn’t exactly a ringing endorsement of the coaching staff having a positive impact on Zach Davies while he worked through his struggles.

 

That's about as harsh as you can get without driving a bus.

[SomewhereInTime]

I think there's been a lot of "blame" put on Stearns and/or Counsell for letting Johnson go, but maybe he wanted another challenge. Maybe he didn't like Milwaukee? Maybe the amount of money he was offered in Cinci was just way too much? There comes a point in time where you just can't keep matching an offer. Maybe he felt he needed to prove himself again so he could get himself in line for a managerial position?

 

It's just like free agents when people say "why didn't we sign Kimbrel/Keuchel/or some other random free agent"? There's always reasons someone doesn't sign in a city, and it's not always just money.

 

That being said, Chris Hook currently doesn't appear to be getting the best out of his guys, but it's been half of one season, so as much as it sucks to say it, I'd give him at least the one season before I'd cut bait with the guy to see if he can turn some of these young guys around.

 

I believe IIRC taking the Cincy job had a lot to do with being closer to his family.

[TURBO]

DJ was a major loss. Simple as that.

[Brew crew 92]

DJ was a major loss. Simple as that.

 

Agreed.

And if it was $ shame on us.

And if it was wanting to be closer to home, pay for NET JETS to fly him and his family back and forth.

And if he and CC had differences, fire CC.

[Eye Black]

They could have one-upped the Reds, and just moved the team to Nashville!

[homer]

The Davies quote is odd because he wasn't that good last year and I fear he's been getting lucky this year. His recent struggles are just his numbers returning to the norm.

[jerichoholicninja]

If the pitching sucking this year is because of DJ leaving he is the greatest pitching coach in the history of ever. Frankly I think it has very little to do with him or even Hook. Especially since most of these guys have worked with Hook before. You just don't have a whole staff of pitchers turn in to turds because a coach leaves. Most likely just about every pitcher had a career year last year and now they're playing to their true talent or having a bad year. Heck, maybe Grandal is the problem.

[Brew crew 92]

The Davies quote is odd because he wasn't that good last year and I fear he's been getting lucky this year. His recent struggles are just his numbers returning to the norm.

 

Davies is an idiot.

 

You don’t throw your catcher or pitching coach or whoever he was blaming for his troubles under the bus like he did. Unforgivable. But showing his true lack of character, and if I’m Stearns I hope he pitches better over the next month so I can trade his butt and not sell too low on this coward.

[timpep]

If the pitching sucking this year is because of DJ leaving he is the greatest pitching coach in the history of ever. Frankly I think it has very little to do with him or even Hook. Especially since most of these guys have worked with Hook before. You just don't have a whole staff of pitchers turn in to turds because a coach leaves. Most likely just about every pitcher had a career year last year and now they're playing to their true talent or having a bad year. Heck, maybe Grandal is the problem.

 

It's a pretty small sample I guess but Pina has a catcher ERA a full run less than Grandal.

[adambr2]

The Davies quote is odd because he wasn't that good last year and I fear he's been getting lucky this year. His recent struggles are just his numbers returning to the norm.

 

Davies is an idiot.

 

You don’t throw your catcher or pitching coach or whoever he was blaming for his troubles under the bus like he did. Unforgivable. But showing his true lack of character, and if I’m Stearns I hope he pitches better over the next month so I can trade his butt and not sell too low on this coward.

 

I think you're overreacting quite a bit. Regardless of what Davies meant, it's normally for guys to get frustrated and at the end of the day he didn't call anyone but himself out by name.

 

Maybe it was a subtle shot at Hook, maybe it wasn't but it doesn't mean he is some piss poor character lacking individual who needs to be run out of town immediately for some pretty innocent comments.

[Brew crew 92]

The Davies quote is odd because he wasn't that good last year and I fear he's been getting lucky this year. His recent struggles are just his numbers returning to the norm.

 

Davies is an idiot.

 

You don’t throw your catcher or pitching coach or whoever he was blaming for his troubles under the bus like he did. Unforgivable. But showing his true lack of character, and if I’m Stearns I hope he pitches better over the next month so I can trade his butt and not sell too low on this coward.

 

I think you're overreacting quite a bit. Regardless of what Davies meant, it's normally for guys to get frustrated and at the end of the day he didn't call anyone but himself out by name.

 

Maybe it was a subtle shot at Hook, maybe it wasn't but it doesn't mean he is some piss poor character lacking individual who needs to be run out of town immediately for some pretty innocent comments.

 

Well, we disagree on this one, and I see what I can get for him at the deadline. I’ll let the GM I’m dealing with know I have to rid him because of what he said, not because he’s really a weak #4/5.

[homer]

You don't trade a guy because of one out-of-context sentence.

[balsamlaker]

Considering three of his eight "hitters" (Aguilar, Cain, and Shaw) are having very down years and your top two starters are Davies and Woodruff, Counsell may be doing an even better managing job this year. DJ was definitely a big loss, but we have seen improvements in Albers, Davies, Hader, Woodruff, and even Guerra. Jeffress is unfortunately pitching more like he has when he hasn't been in Milwaukee, Aguilar may be a one-year wonder, and Cain is probably somewhere between this year and last going forward.

[Eye Black]

I didn’t bring up the Davies thing because I thought it was any type of definitive evidence someone (Davies or the coaches) should be run out of town, I just thought it was a bit strange.

 

When guys have microphones stuck in their face daily you have to give them the benefit of the doubt that once in a while they may just say things that aren’t well thought out and don’t actually mean much at all. That could very well be the case in this instance. At this point it is one standalone comment that very likely may be completely meaningless.

[Brew crew 92]

You don't trade a guy because of one out-of-context sentence.

 

Your probably right there.

 

But that’s not why I’m trading him, I’m gonna get value back for a middling starter that starts to get expensive next year.

[adambr2]

I don't see Davies having a great market right now. He's more of an offseason trade candidate for a team looking to fill out their rotation without dipping into free agency.

 

Contenders won't be interested right now as they can see the same recent decline in performance as we see.

 

He's not all that intriguing for sellers either. Just a #4 type arm that, as you said, starts to get more expensive soon.

 

I could see Davies getting dealt in the winter. But probably not right now.

[Brew crew 92]

I don't see Davies having a great market right now. He's more of an offseason trade candidate for a team looking to fill out their rotation without dipping into free agency.

 

Contenders won't be interested right now as they can see the same recent decline in performance as we see.

 

He's not all that intriguing for sellers either. Just a #4 type arm that, as you said, starts to get more expensive soon.

 

I could see Davies getting dealt in the winter. But probably not right now.

 

Your probably right, offseason will probably get a little more back, but if he pitches well the next month I’m trading, before the collapse.

[brewmann04]

Definite step back in terms of pitching coach and that needs to be addressed .

[Warning Track Power]

A microcosm of coaching this season in today’s game...

 

1st and 3rd 1 out, Hiura and Thames swinging for the downs instead of putting the ball in play.

 

Pirates man on 3rd 1 out, Newman goes with pitch to RF to drive in run. 1st and 3rd 1 out, Musgrove, a pitcher, lays down a bunt to get run on board.

 

This team this year could use more situational hitting rather than trying to hit HR constantly.

[Eye Black]

One minor correction, it was runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out.