Starting Pitching - 2019 Trade Deadline Edition

[Brewcrewin07]

I’d rather use resources for Diaz, honestly.

 

Why?? Right now they ABSOLUTELY need a starter. Not saying Thor or someone like that, but they absolutely cannot, CANNOT use the "bullpen" approach, or use Wilkerson etc as Chacin's replacement. Not in the middle of a pennant race. That would be downright negligent.

[HarveysWBs]

Joel Sherman of the New York Post reports that the Mets are aggressively trying to trade starting pitcher Noah Syndergaard.

 

The club has received multiple trade offers for Syndergaard. Sherman's report included quotes from rival team executives saying "They are definitely trading Syndergaard" and the Mets are "working very hard on this." Syndergaard is under team control for two more full seasons and would surely command a high price on the trade market even though he hasn't been all that good this year (7-5, 4.33 ERA in 20 starts). His track record of elite performance in prior seasons will convince other teams that they can fix him. The Mets want a back-end major league starter and multiple top prospects in return for Thor. Trade rumors have been focused primarily on the Padres, Braves and Dodgers. Sherman said the Mets are looking to move Edwin Diaz as well.

 

Source: New York Post

 

Jul 27, 2019, 9:34 AM ET

 

 

No mention of the Brewers, which is why I expect him to be a Brewer soon...lol

 

Don't tease me like that...I would be absolutely through the moon ecstatic.

 

Not sure I would be. I like a pitcher like Syndergaard in theory, but he’s only gone over 155 innings once in his career, has alarming injury trends, is having his worst season (which sure, makes him more affordable in theory, but might not in reality considering his likely market), strikeouts are trending down, his HR rate is trending up, and he’d be coming to a more hitter-friendly park. For all this, we would have to gut what is left of the farm. I don’t mention this to endlessly rehash the prospects vs stud aces debate, but only to say that perhaps if you are going to spend the prospect capital, maybe he isn’t the target. Maybe there isn’t a target this year. Or maybe they should save the farm hands and see if Cole’s market is flat this offseason and shock the world. Stranger things have happened.

 

At any rate, I’m leaning Diaz, too, if he’s cheaper, and a back-end starter.

[Brewcrewin07]

To be honest, now that the Dbacks are focused on selling, I'd be all over Greinke or Ray

[OnTheBlack]

Losing Woodruff was a big blow, but this isn't a tipping point for the start of another rebuild. Far from it. When you have a lineup that starts with Yelich and Hiura, the last thought is rebuilding.

+1.

 

Woodruff is 26, Davies is 26, Houser is 26, Burnes is 24, and Peralta is 23, and the last two are far from a finished product. Hell, Peralta has had eight starts of 6IP or more with 1 ER or less. Eight. Not time to give up on him as a starter.

 

This is exactly why I'm more in favor of the Brewers re-loading instead of rebuilding.

 

There is still a nice window, but we need more out of our young pitchers. We need to suck it up and give them a sustained chance and to do so without a short leash. I don't blame them for yanking Burnes out of the rotation, but they did it after 4 starts. See what you've got in one of the most talented arms you've developed in a while. Would anyone really be shocked if it clicked for him and he developed into a legit #2?

 

If we're going to actually get to and win a world series, we need the horses to beat the Astros, Yankees, Dodgers. I think we'll have a great pen again next year, but the idea that we can piece together games like we did at the end of last year just doesn't seem sustainable and taking pitchers in and out of roles so often does not seem like a sustainable practice.

[OnTheBlack]

I’d rather use resources for Diaz, honestly.

 

Why?? Right now they ABSOLUTELY need a starter. Not saying Thor or someone like that, but they absolutely cannot, CANNOT use the "bullpen" approach, or use Wilkerson etc as Chacin's replacement. Not in the middle of a pennant race. That would be downright negligent.

 

 

Because not everyone wants the Brewers to be so extraordinary short sighted in their pursuits of building a team that can sustain success. I get where you're coming from. But you're waaaaay out there. At least when it comes to this board in how you're valuing immediate impact and future impact.

 

That type of desperation gets you on the "worst trades of all time list," currently circulating on ESPN.

[OldHeidelberg]

I wouldn't be shocked if the Brewers found a way to get Syndergaard, it would probably take Davies and Shaw plus a prospect package to make up for us not having top prospects but it's the Mets so I wouldn't write us off just because it seems hard to compete with our prospects. I would rather they would just spend money and less player capital on Greinke but that's the cross we bear in this league, I just can't see them committing to picking up most of his salary when they passed on Kimbrell/Keuchel.

[Brewcrewin07]

I’d rather use resources for Diaz, honestly.

 

Why?? Right now they ABSOLUTELY need a starter. Not saying Thor or someone like that, but they absolutely cannot, CANNOT use the "bullpen" approach, or use Wilkerson etc as Chacin's replacement. Not in the middle of a pennant race. That would be downright negligent.

 

 

Because not everyone wants the Brewers to be so extraordinary short sighted in their pursuits of building a team that can sustain success. I get where you're coming from. But you're waaaaay out there. At least when it comes to this board in how you're valuing immediate impact and future impact.

 

That type of desperation gets you on the "worst trades of all time list," currently circulating on ESPN.

 

You worry about today now...and worry about the future when it gets here.

[Brewcrewin07]

Ken Rosenthal

@Ken_Rosenthal

·

5m

One of many scenarios #Mets are exploring, per sources: Syndergaard to #Padres, then using some of return to land Stroman from #BlueJays. Not known which players would go from SD to NYM if deal occurred. RHP Cal Quantrill, a Canadian native, would be logical target for TOR.

[KeithStone53151]

Ken Rosenthal

@Ken_Rosenthal

·

5m

One of many scenarios #Mets are exploring, per sources: Syndergaard to #Padres, then using some of return to land Stroman from #BlueJays. Not known which players would go from SD to NYM if deal occurred. RHP Cal Quantrill, a Canadian native, would be logical target for TOR.

 

This seems stupid. I have a hard time seeing the return on thor being THAT much better than the return on stroman. Also the 1/2 year of stroman this year is wasted on them, so hard to see them winning the bidding on stroman anyways. I get the feeling the Mets FO thinks they are smarter than every other team.

[OnTheBlack]

Ken Rosenthal

@Ken_Rosenthal

·

5m

One of many scenarios #Mets are exploring, per sources: Syndergaard to #Padres, then using some of return to land Stroman from #BlueJays. Not known which players would go from SD to NYM if deal occurred. RHP Cal Quantrill, a Canadian native, would be logical target for TOR.

 

This seems stupid. I have a hard time seeing the return on thor being THAT much better than the return on stroman. Also the 1/2 year of stroman this year is wasted on them, so hard to see them winning the bidding on stroman anyways. I get the feeling the Mets FO thinks they are smarter than every other team.

 

 

That would be a baffling move....and actually make sense for the Mets at the same time. The comment about the FO seems like a perfect description of them?

 

Is that owner still recovering from the Maddoff scheme or what? They just don't seem like the behave like they should. They don't seem particularly smart and they don't seem to be investing in their farm system. I guess they spent money to bring Cano and Diaz back, but they gave up their top prospects in order to do so.

[OnTheBlack]

 

You worry about today now...and worry about the future when it gets here.

 

 

 

No, YOU do that. Most people on the board try to balance the two.

 

Good luck with retirement though....

[PeaveyFury]

I’d rather use resources for Diaz, honestly.

 

Why?? Right now they ABSOLUTELY need a starter. Not saying Thor or someone like that, but they absolutely cannot, CANNOT use the "bullpen" approach, or use Wilkerson etc as Chacin's replacement. Not in the middle of a pennant race. That would be downright negligent.

 

Because the Brewers have about 5 holes to fill, and if they’re going to use their very limited amount of resources to try and plug them, I’d rather go and get a guy that is likely to make a significant impact now but won’t command the price that Thor will based on name alone. Diaz is a great opportunity to buy on a bad first half and hope the Mets are dumb enough to under sell on him, which they might be.

[wntrtxn21]

To be honest, now that the Dbacks are focused on selling, I'd be all over Greinke or Ray

 

Ray is a FA in 2021 and the prospects they'd want would be enormous. I don't know if the Brewers have the type of prospects the D'backs would accept for Ray or if Stearns would empty the farm for 1 1/3 years with Ray. Greinke would cost $83-84M through 2021. The Brewers would have zero interest unless the D'backs included a huge chunk of money and the prospect cost was reasonable.

[wntrtxn21]

I’d rather use resources for Diaz, honestly.

 

Why?? Right now they ABSOLUTELY need a starter. Not saying Thor or someone like that, but they absolutely cannot, CANNOT use the "bullpen" approach, or use Wilkerson etc as Chacin's replacement. Not in the middle of a pennant race. That would be downright negligent.

 

Because the Brewers have about 5 holes to fill, and if they’re going to use their very limited amount of resources to try and plug them, I’d rather go and get a guy that is likely to make a significant impact now but won’t command the price that Thor will based on name alone. Diaz is a great opportunity to buy on a bad first half and hope the Mets are dumb enough to under sell on him, which they might be.

 

I'd be wary of Diaz. He is having a horrendous year. In his last 30 games he has allowed at least one hit in 21 games and multiple hits in 9 of those 30 games. Hits and walks are way up over last year. There has to be a reason he went from a monster to a mop-up guy almost overnite.

[TURBO]

The Twins might be willing to part with either top prospect SS Royce Lewis or OF Alex Kirilloff in a trade for Mets RHP Noah Syndergaard.

 

The Mets have expressed interest in both prospects in return for their former ace. It is doubtful the Twins would part with both players but chief baseball officer Derek Falvey wouldn't rule out trading one or the other to bring in a major asset. Lewis was the first overall pick of the 2017 draft. Kirilloff was the 15th overall pick of the 2016 draft. Both players are ranked in the top 20 of MLB.com's newly released mid-seaon top 100 prospects list.

 

Source: The Athletic

Jul 27, 2019, 11:56 AM ET

[PeaveyFury]

 

Why?? Right now they ABSOLUTELY need a starter. Not saying Thor or someone like that, but they absolutely cannot, CANNOT use the "bullpen" approach, or use Wilkerson etc as Chacin's replacement. Not in the middle of a pennant race. That would be downright negligent.

 

Because the Brewers have about 5 holes to fill, and if they’re going to use their very limited amount of resources to try and plug them, I’d rather go and get a guy that is likely to make a significant impact now but won’t command the price that Thor will based on name alone. Diaz is a great opportunity to buy on a bad first half and hope the Mets are dumb enough to under sell on him, which they might be.

 

I'd be wary of Diaz. He is having a horrendous year. In his last 30 games he has allowed at least one hit in 21 games and multiple hits in 9 of those 30 games. Hits and walks are way up over last year. There has to be a reason he went from a monster to a mop-up guy almost overnite.

 

A horrendous year for a reliever amounts to 39 innings, in Diaz’s case. A perfect time to buy, especially from an organization that does everything wrong. Young, 3.5 years of control, and a history of domination.

[Brewcrewin07]

But what if that horrendous year continues the rest of this year if he were to become a Brewer?? Then they didn't gain much, and in fact maybe took a step back for the rest of this year. That seems way too risky for the here and now, obviously MIGHT turn out okay for the next couple years after that.

 

They should have gotten in on Diekman for as cheap as he went,.

[PeaveyFury]

But what if that horrendous year continues the rest of this year if he were to become a Brewer?? Then they didn't gain much, and in fact maybe took a step back for the rest of this year. That seems way too risky for the here and now, obviously MIGHT turn out okay for the next couple years after that.

 

They should have gotten in on Diekman for as cheap as he went,.

 

Aren’t you similarly reliant on Thor being far better than his season so far as well, where he’s been outperformed by Zach Davies?

[jjfanec]

The Twins might be willing to part with either top prospect SS Royce Lewis or OF Alex Kirilloff in a trade for Mets RHP Noah Syndergaard.

 

The Mets have expressed interest in both prospects in return for their former ace. It is doubtful the Twins would part with both players but chief baseball officer Derek Falvey wouldn't rule out trading one or the other to bring in a major asset. Lewis was the first overall pick of the 2017 draft. Kirilloff was the 15th overall pick of the 2016 draft. Both players are ranked in the top 20 of MLB.com's newly released mid-seaon top 100 prospects list.

 

Source: The Athletic

Jul 27, 2019, 11:56 AM ET

 

If the Mets got both players for Syndergaard that would be a huge get for them but I really doubt it happens. The Twins need starting pitching. Outside of Berrios they haven't been good. Odorizzi has been really bad lately and the rest of the starters have ERAs over 4.

[jjfanec]

I’d rather use resources for Diaz, honestly.

 

Why?? Right now they ABSOLUTELY need a starter. Not saying Thor or someone like that, but they absolutely cannot, CANNOT use the "bullpen" approach, or use Wilkerson etc as Chacin's replacement. Not in the middle of a pennant race. That would be downright negligent.

 

Because the Brewers have about 5 holes to fill, and if they’re going to use their very limited amount of resources to try and plug them, I’d rather go and get a guy that is likely to make a significant impact now but won’t command the price that Thor will based on name alone. Diaz is a great opportunity to buy on a bad first half and hope the Mets are dumb enough to under sell on him, which they might be.

 

What are the 5 holes? 2 starters, 2 relievers and a SS? I would say they have 3. They need another starter. They need a another reliever. They need either a starting SS or a utility guy. The bullpen feels a lot more stable with Hauser and Peralta. One more reliever would allow a lot more flexibility and Claudio to be used as just a loogy.

 

Now they may not have the capital to do that but if they got those three pieces I see no reason they couldn't make the playoffs and then when you get there anything can happen

[RWeeksFan23]

Would Turang, Corey Ray, Lutz, and Supak be a fair trade for both sides for Robbie Ray?

[TURBO]

Would Turang, Corey Ray, Lutz, and Supak be a fair trade for both sides for Robbie Ray?

 

imo…...that is too much!

 

If Ray had 4 years of control, maybe, but I still wouldn't do it.

 

I'd pass if his cost is that high.

[jjfanec]

Would Turang, Corey Ray, Lutz, and Supak be a fair trade for both sides for Robbie Ray?

 

imo…...that is too much!

 

If Ray had 4 years of control, maybe, but I still wouldn't do it.

 

I'd pass if his cost is that high.

 

I agree. That seems like a lot for a guy who hasn't been great

[adambr2]

Thor isn't gettable without Hiura, so on that alone...it's a hard pass for me.

[JohnBriggs12]

Ivan Nova pitched a gem for the White Sox last night beating the Twins. In his last 2 starts he's allowed one earned run over 15 innings. I predict he'll make his next start in a Brewer uniform.