Badgers Football 2019

[pacopete4]

Pinstripe Bowl discussion yet?

[True Blue Brew Crew]

They wouldn't have beat Ohio State with 2 months of preparation.

 

Agreed. Unless of course they used the 2 months to install an entirely new, less predictable, more dynamic offense.

 

And recruit a whole new group of athletes to go along with it.

 

Then how the heck has Purdue beaten them twice since 2010, athletes? Michigan State 3 times since 2010? Excuses.

[yourout]

Pinstripe Bowl discussion yet?

 

I'm thinking Music City vs Auburn.

[PeaveyFury]

Posted on a different Badgers/recruiting board, and I find it relevant and accurate:

 

Before we get into anything else, let's understand the cold realities. On average, Ohio produces 150 D1 recruits per year and about 16-17 4/5 star players. On average, Wisconsin produces 10 D1 recruits per year and one 4/5 star player. This is never, ever going to change. You need to accept the reality that OSU had better talent on the day you were born and is going to have better talent on the day you die. That's without even factoring in that they have zero academic standards. So if you want to be "recruit better players guy", you're honestly better off just moving to Columbus. You'll be happier.

 

There's OSU and there's everyone else. Your program is not "mediocre" or "underachieving" because you can't beat Ohio State. This is a good Wisconsin team, just not near as good as OSU. The fact that this seems to be a revelation to some people and they're flying off the handle after this game sorta boggles mind. To beat OSU, you need to play perfect, get some breaks and have the Buckeye's be flat. If both sides play average, UW is going to lose EVERY TIME. Today OSU played their best game of the year (adjusting for competition) and we were ho-hum... thus 38-7.

[PeaveyFury]

Pinstripe Bowl discussion yet?

 

I'm thinking Music City vs Auburn.

 

I think a 10-3 record and a Cotton Bowl birth is the ceiling. Obviously, a win vs. Iowa is necessary to keep things from snow-balling.

[adambr2]

 

Then how the heck has Purdue beaten them twice since 2010, athletes? Michigan State 3 times since 2010? Excuses.

 

So just to be clear, it can't be that we're less talented, because other teams have indeed beaten OSU 2 or 3 times in the last 10 years. That is your argument.

 

Really? Because it's sports and sometimes anomalies happen. You're using a small handful of games in a decade long period to dispute a very well known disparity between recruiting of the top programs in the country and the second and third tier programs in the country? Some of which occurred years before the current class was even in high school? That argument is beyond flimsy.

 

South Carolina has beaten Georgia 5 times since 2010. So we should take that to mean what about their current talent compared to Georgia's?

 

Answer, absolutely nothing.

[homer]

I don't think anyone is saying UW should never beat OSU. Yeah, they should be them once in a while. Also, Purdue would gladly trade those two wins over OSU for the overall success UW has had since 2010.

[lcbj68c]

Regardless of surrounding talent, Wisconsin needs a different scheme and culture on offense, and probably more dynamic QB play if they are going to beat OSU. I don't expect Chryst to ever provide that and I got what I expected yesterday out of Coan. We have a real opportunity the next 3 years with Mertz...though I don't know that OSU is on the schedule. I sure hope Chryst can get out of box and harness talent like Bielema did the one year he had R. Wilson. That will be what allows UW to make a playoff run, not recruiting better than OSU.

[homer]

You know that Chryst was offensive coordinator when Wilson was at UW, right?

[lcbj68c]

You know that Chryst was offensive coordinator when Wilson was at UW, right?

 

That's what gives me a glimmer of hope. Maybe, just maybe he tries to play within the limited tools of a Hornibrook or Coan. I can only hope.

[lcbj68c]

Regardless of surrounding talent, Wisconsin needs a different scheme and culture on offense, and probably more dynamic QB play if they are going to beat OSU. I don't expect Chryst to ever provide that and I got what I expected yesterday out of Coan. We have a real opportunity the next 3 years with Mertz...though I don't know that OSU is on the schedule. I sure hope Chryst can get out of box and harness talent like Bielema did the one year he had R. Wilson. That will be what allows UW to make a playoff run, not recruiting better than OSU.

 

Just looked. No Ohio State or Penn State on the schedule in 2020. Though there is the potential of a tough stretch early in the year against App State, at Michigan, Minnesota, and neutral site Notre Dame.

 

No Ohio State in 2021 either. 2022 we go back there in what could be Mertz' senior year? Weird that the series didn't rotate back to Madison?

[pacopete4]

You know that Chryst was offensive coordinator when Wilson was at UW, right?

 

Where did that guy go?

[pacopete4]

Per Montee Ball:

We can’t be so one dimensional all the time. This whole “Wisconsin identity” way is gettin real old. We look great against the Kent states of football but when it’s time to actually play some football.. this is Wisconsin. Some may not like this tweet but it’s the truth.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Gonna piggyback off of Peavey's earlier post. Reading facebook this morning and yesterday, (and this site), there's a lot of people saying "chryst isn't the guy/might not be the guy/should be fired".

 

Wisconsin will NEVER be Ohio State.

 

This state doesn't pump out the D1 recruits like Ohio does. Or Michigan, or Florida, or Texas. People can say the talent gap isn't that big, but it is. Barry Alvarez did a fantastic job getting the results he did with a bunch of 2 and 3 and occasional four star guys. Chryst is as well. If you're a fan of Wisconsin, getting to 3-4 NY6 bowls per decade is IT. That's what we can hope for. MAYBE, just maybe we might sneak into the playoffs once. If you're hanging your hat on some coach making us a national powerhouse... it's not gonna happen.

 

It's Alabama, Ohio State, Oklahoma, and eeeeeeverybody else. I've been seeing this argument since Barry stepped down. "WE NEED A COACH TO TAKE US TO THE NEXT LEVEL". There is no next level for Wisconsin. College football is not the pros. This is not an even playing field. It sucks, but if you're a fan of Wisconsin, having a season where you go 12-1 and win an Orange Bowl should be amazing and fun and memorable!!!!

 

Why are people fans of Purdue, or New Mexico State, or Vanderbilt, or whoever? Because College Football is fun and goofy. You have to accept that it's Alabama and Clemson and a few other teams per year, and MAYBE if you're a power 5 team, you get a ghost of a chance once in a while if the stars align, but that's it. There is no "reaching the next level". Wisconsin doesn't have the talent pool of D1 studs that these states have. It doesn't! Anyone can stand up and say "the talent gap isn't the problem!" but it is. It absolutely is, X100.

 

Like HOmer, I'm happy with where the program is at. I'd LOVE to see the Bagders sneak into the playoffs. It might happen. I never thought I'd see the UW basketball team get to a National Title game, and a few years back, they were a few minutes away from winning it all. One of these years the stars might align. Maybe OSU will have a rash of injuries, or a recruiting violation will take them down a peg. Who knows? But we aren't, and NEVER will be "OSU". I'm ok with that. I've made my peace with that. It could be worse. I could be a fan of a team like Vandy or whoever, who will NEVER have a chance to win their conference.

 

NONE of that means that the scheming and playcalling doesn't need to get better. It does. This isn't an either/or like some people want it to be. Both can be true. The talent gap is huge. The scheme and playcalling have to be better.

[homer]

Again, for the back row....no one is disputing the need for more creative play calling. The argument is that this is the only thing separating UW from OSU. It's not. The talent gap is the biggest differentiator by far.

[pacopete4]

It's never just one thing usually but while we can list off the reasons for why Wisconsin can't be OSU, we can also look to reasons why we rarely beat them. It isn't just the talent gap. We refuse to change our style to give ourselves a chance at doing something special. Most Badger fans and the University are completely satisfied with what they have for a football program. That's a big reason as to why it'll never progress into something that takes the next step. They are happy with raking in money and usually competing for a B10 West title and then going on to whatever bowl game. It's a great situation they are in so it's hard to argue against it. For fans wanting to see something different and to see them take a few risks to do something special, it probably just isn't going to occur.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Nobody beats Ohio State anything more than rarely. When you're a perennial top-five team, you're a perennial top five team because you rarely lose games. Beating a dead horse, but most of the top five teams usually have a massive Talent Edge over the teams that aren't in that group.

[MadThinker88]

Posted on a different Badgers/recruiting board, and I find it relevant and accurate:

 

Before we get into anything else, let's understand the cold realities. On average, Ohio produces 150 D1 recruits per year and about 16-17 4/5 star players. On average, Wisconsin produces 10 D1 recruits per year and one 4/5 star player. This is never, ever going to change. You need to accept the reality that OSU had better talent on the day you were born and is going to have better talent on the day you die. That's without even factoring in that they have zero academic standards. So if you want to be "recruit better players guy", you're honestly better off just moving to Columbus. You'll be happier.

 

There's OSU and there's everyone else. Your program is not "mediocre" or "underachieving" because you can't beat Ohio State. This is a good Wisconsin team, just not near as good as OSU. The fact that this seems to be a revelation to some people and they're flying off the handle after this game sorta boggles mind. To beat OSU, you need to play perfect, get some breaks and have the Buckeye's be flat. If both sides play average, UW is going to lose EVERY TIME. Today OSU played their best game of the year (adjusting for competition) and we were ho-hum... thus 38-7.

 

First - Thank you for sharing. Some very important points in that 1st paragraph (especially parts I put in bold). Increased population size does have some impact...

 

Second - Serious question for the board: Since Chris Chambers & Lee Evans went from NEOhio (Cleveland area) to Wisconsin (& later early NFL draft picks), what other recruits have the Badgers been able to attract from NEOhio???

 

I know one of the main recruitment goals of Jim Tressel when he took over at OSU was to make it more difficult for schools outside of Ohio to swipe talents from the state. A lot of talents (like Desmond Howard, Elvis Grbac, Ricky Powers, OJ McDuffie, Charles Wooden) left under John Cooper's watch as he seemed more interested to get talents from around the country. Since the change some places (Meatchicken & ND) have continued to draw talent out of Ohio, especially from the Cleveland area but I cant recall any more at Wisconsin. Any ideas??

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Again, for the back row....no one is disputing the need for more creative play calling. The argument is that this is the only thing separating UW from OSU. It's not. The talent gap is the biggest differentiator by far.

 

See, now you're doing the same thing in the opposite direction. No one ever said the talent was equal. The gap isn't as big as it's made out to be and certainly the results shouldn't be this lopsided. OSU is not producing talented QBs but their QBs are putting up video game numbers. That's scheme and it's not something Wisconsin has in it's arsenal. Other far less talented teams than Wisconsin have been able to beat Ohio State and they didn't do it with tons of 5 star recruits or future NFLers. Wisconsin needs to innovate to beat Ohio State and now even former players are saying it.

[PeaveyFury]

Again, for the back row....no one is disputing the need for more creative play calling. The argument is that this is the only thing separating UW from OSU. It's not. The talent gap is the biggest differentiator by far.

 

See, now you're doing the same thing in the opposite direction. No one ever said the talent was equal. The gap isn't as big as it's made out to be and certainly the results shouldn't be this lopsided. OSU is not producing talented QBs but their QBs are putting up video game numbers. That's scheme and it's not something Wisconsin has in it's arsenal. Other far less talented teams than Wisconsin have been able to beat Ohio State and they didn't do it with tons of 5 star recruits or future NFLers. Wisconsin needs to innovate to beat Ohio State and now even former players are saying it.

 

How many of those teams have beaten this 2019, super loaded, super talented OSU team?

 

How many have even given them a game?

[DuWayne Steurer]

Former players are tweeting about it because they lost to Illinois last week. Nobody had anything to say when they were waltzing all over Michigan and Michigan State.

 

When Gary Anderson was in town and his first year the Badgers were throwing 25+ times a game and running 4 receiver sets the whole state was in an uproar saying "THIS ISN'T WISCONSIN FOOTBAW!" and now the Badgers lose 2 games in a row, and the battle cry is "We can't just keep playing Wisconsin football"

 

Again, ABSOLUTELY NOBODY is saying that the playcalling can't and shouldn't be more creative and diverse.

 

Ohio State's passing game didn't even put up huge numbers Saturday. They did run wild on the Badgers though. Owning the trenches on both sides of the ball will do that.

[MrTPlush]

It's never just one thing usually but while we can list off the reasons for why Wisconsin can't be OSU, we can also look to reasons why we rarely beat them. It isn't just the talent gap. We refuse to change our style to give ourselves a chance at doing something special. Most Badger fans and the University are completely satisfied with what they have for a football program. That's a big reason as to why it'll never progress into something that takes the next step. They are happy with raking in money and usually competing for a B10 West title and then going on to whatever bowl game. It's a great situation they are in so it's hard to argue against it. For fans wanting to see something different and to see them take a few risks to do something special, it probably just isn't going to occur.

 

Yup, this is about as accurate as it gets. Beating Ohio State (or even Penn State) is really quite meaningless to the Badgers. The Badgers and their fans should be blessed to be on the weak side of the Big 10 where there is no powerhouse to consistently make them look silly. The Badgers can pretty consistently make the Big 10 Championship game by default of just dominating the same usual good, but not great teams. They know every few years a 2017-type schedule will happen and an elite bowl game can be had.

 

Can you imagine if we and Michigan State swapped spots? We would play Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State consistently and then have the likes of Iowa/Michigan State sprinkled in there some years too. I wonder if Wisconsin would have a different mindset if they started the year pretty much having 2 auto losses on the schedule and having zero shot to ever play in the Big Ten Championship game.

 

Like you say, hard to really blame them for it. It’s a pretty good situation to be in and to change that for the better I think would be pretty hard to do. Trying to find a offensive mind would probably be the most realistic path to maybe make us a bit more than we are.

 

On another note: As far as offensive play calling and scheme...once again this year I thought it started out different and maybe PC finally was going to change. Unfortunately as the season dragged on it seemed to just fade away back to bland looking. I really hope the non existence of Taylor next year and the possible emergence of Mertz makes them do something different.

[homer]

The recency bias in this thread is strong. OSU has crushed UW exactly twice in their last 7 meetings. The other five were one score or less. In 2010 UW beat OSU by two scores. People want to cry about the offensive scheme but never say boo about a defense that has given up 38, 27, 30, 59, and 31 points in the last five matchups. So is that scheme too?

[tmwiese55]

Jeez people. I had no idea so many folks in WI didn't realize until yesterday that OSU is better than UW at football.

 

For anyone trying to argue the talent gap isn't massive, you're just flat out wrong. There's no way to sugarcoat it. OSU, Bama, Clemson are at a different level than everyone else. I saw something this week too that their % of 4/5 star talent is actually higher than Bama's. Then you see it translate to the NFL year after year. You can point to our NFL numbers too (which still pale compared to OSU) but you have to remember all we put in the NFL are O Line, LBs, and TEs. Well I guess we have two RBs. We put no WRs and CBs in the NFL, their speed advantage is massive in those areas and their DL.

 

That said, it's not like we couldn't scheme or play call better, if you've read what I said all week that's exactly what I've been saying on using the play action. I was at the game so didn't have the privilege of TV like all, but I noticed their DBs play right up in our WRs faces on every play with no safety help, and we didn't even try to beat it. Cephus is good, he should have a chance. Really we don't have much of a shot vs them until we get back to a ridiculous OL again that can at least give us an area we're better than them at.

 

For the whole "these other teams beat them more". Quite simply those teams play them more than we do and it's small sample stuff. We got crushed this week and in the 59-0. we've played them close every other time we've played. We just haven't squeaked out the Ws a time or two like we'd prefer. Say the OT game at home two years ago we led the whole time or the title game where we had the ball twice at the end to win but didn't score.

 

For the attitudes about, well this team can't win it all or hang with the big boys etc so what's the point? Ya'll realize we're on a Brewers message board right? We're hear following underdogs going in knowing full well they're long shots to win big or win it all. Following the Brewers is no different than UW in that sense. Otherwise might as well be Red Sox and Bama fans.

 

For QB play, Coan is perfectly fine. Blaming everything on the QB when he's running for his life the second he drops back and there is no running game just isn't right. That said, I'm in agreeance on scheming and play calling. Coan has proven to be fine/good, let's let him rip a bit and see what happens. Take your swings at least and give yourself a chance. Some more creativity and aggressiveness could make them back off the line a bit, reduce their pass rush etc. But as someone else pointed out I'm sure a legit fear is the pass protection just couldn't hold up to let him throw a bit more aggressively.

 

Standing by my take from like 4 weeks ago that OSU is gonna win it all or at least go toe to toe with Bama for the title. As long as Fields doesn't get hurt. In the meantime I'm enjoying all the money OSU is making me.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Again, Clemson 27 current NFL players / Wisconsin 26 current NFL players. Clemson has two wins over Ohio State and two national championships since UW last beat Ohio State. The Badgers aren't going to match Ohio State in recruiting but that doesn't mean they don't have enough talent to beat them on the field. That has been repeatedly demonstrated by teams equally and less talented than Wisconsin. The improvement needs to come from the playbook, play calling, and game planning. It can be done as other programs have shown.