Badgers Football 2019

[pacopete4]

Can Coan throw past 10 yards or do Chyst hold this offense back? That is a question I'd love to know. We have Coan who seems to be a solid QB and Mertz who has a whole highlight reel of hammering the deep ball. When are we going to see an explosive offense at UW?

[tmwiese55]

Can Coan throw past 10 yards or do Chyst hold this offense back? That is a question I'd love to know. We have Coan who seems to be a solid QB and Mertz who has a whole highlight reel of hammering the deep ball. When are we going to see an explosive offense at UW?

 

Coan has a whole high school reel of doing it too. He hit multiple bombs in one of the cupcake games and I think one or two vs MSU too. He has the arm strength for it, I think that's clear. He's able to zing everything sideline to sideline without it floating like Horni. Which obviously helps right there. But you have WRs who can stretch it, I agree, you need to go over the top more. I'd say my biggest nitpick on Xs and Os is the lack of play action, which should obviously include bombs like Stave threw a ton of. IMO a deep ball is much easier if the D doesn't have 6 DBs in and two deep safeties. You have this power running game that garners tons of respect from the D, yet you don't pass off it to take advantage. You basically only throw out of shotgun now. The standard play action boot of the last 20 years that gets easy 10-15 yds to TEs multiple times a game is gone the last couple years. Do a play action at the goal line and the TEs are probably uncovered for easy TDs. That's where I get to questioning if PC is calling plays or what, this stuff was standard for him in his previous stints here and now it's gone.

 

That along with the OL just not being as dominant as it was prior to 2014ish. My armchair coach tweak would be to push Rudolph to a new job, hopefully he can get a HC job at a MAC school. Bostad back to OL and PC is OC/HC. Saves you ton of money too in what they're paying Rudolph to give Jimmy a raise.

[RollieTime]

Can Coan throw past 10 yards or do Chyst hold this offense back? That is a question I'd love to know. We have Coan who seems to be a solid QB and Mertz who has a whole highlight reel of hammering the deep ball. When are we going to see an explosive offense at UW?

 

Absolutely. The lack of throwing the ball downfield allows the defense to have all 11 men within 10 yards of the ball all the time. Outside of maybe one or two throws a game of 15+ yards downfield, teams don’t even worry about us beating them deep knowing that we may do it once in a game and then never go back to it. Even if they beat you deep once for a long touchdown pass, that’s only one score. Continue packing it in and stop the run because them continuing to look for the deep ball just isn’t going to happen. The Badgers are a very easy team to play defense against knowing that you can pack 8 in the box every single down and not worry about the deep ball. Because it’s just not coming. Obviously the defense needs to execute, but the lack of throwing downfield or even attempting to do so is holding the offense back.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Can Coan throw past 10 yards or do Chyst hold this offense back? That is a question I'd love to know. We have Coan who seems to be a solid QB and Mertz who has a whole highlight reel of hammering the deep ball. When are we going to see an explosive offense at UW?

 

Maybe when they have an OL that can actually pass block against solid defensive fronts - to throw deep consistently you need more than 2 seconds' time on passing downs for before 2-3 lineman are collapsing the pocket.

 

Despite their supposed pedigree, the Badgers' Oline over the past couple seasons has been severely overrated, IMO. Any success they've had passing comes off play action against teams selling out on the run - whenever they get into sets where multiple receivers could potentially get into deep routes, their O Line needs help to keep the QB off his back. I'm not sure on Coan's arm strength, either.

 

Another big part of it is how their offense is structured, too - I've wondered for quite awhile why Badger QBs are more of the traditional 1980's statues in the pocket, when having a better athlete to run offensive sets where the QB is a running threat could really add another dimension to both the run and pass game. Russel Wilson was great at eluding defenders while making time for throws or some scrambling yards, but he wasn't utilized in many read option sets unless they were at the goal line. Having a QB that can take a snap from the pistol and be able to give it to Taylor, fake and run it himself, or fire it out to the perimeter to receivers going against DB's on islands while the opponent is loading the box seems like a no-brainer advantage they just have never had the personnel to try and exploit.

[tmwiese55]

Can Coan throw past 10 yards or do Chyst hold this offense back? That is a question I'd love to know. We have Coan who seems to be a solid QB and Mertz who has a whole highlight reel of hammering the deep ball. When are we going to see an explosive offense at UW?

 

Maybe when they have an OL that can actually pass block against solid defensive fronts - to throw deep consistently you need more than 2 seconds' time on passing downs for before 2-3 lineman are collapsing the pocket.

 

Despite their supposed pedigree, the Badgers' Oline over the past couple seasons has been severely overrated, IMO. Any success they've had passing comes off play action against teams selling out on the run - whenever they get into sets where multiple receivers could potentially get into deep routes, their O Line needs help to keep the QB off his back. I'm not sure on Coan's arm strength, either.

 

Another big part of it is how their offense is structured, too - I've wondered for quite awhile why Badger QBs are more of the traditional 1980's statues in the pocket, when having a better athlete to run offensive sets where the QB is a running threat could really add another dimension to both the run and pass game. Russel Wilson was great at eluding defenders while making time for throws or some scrambling yards, but he wasn't utilized in many read option sets unless they were at the goal line. Having a QB that can take a snap from the pistol and be able to give it to Taylor, fake and run it himself, or fire it out to the perimeter to receivers going against DB's on islands while the opponent is loading the box seems like a no-brainer advantage they just have never had the personnel to try and exploit.

 

Agree with pretty much the whole post. But especially the OL comments.

[yourout]

He is going to have to really suck to get fired.

 

Sure, that is the beauty of a college coach. You can get into a situation where consistency will keep you a job forever. Someone can go to Wisconsin and have a forever job based on beating up the weak side of the Big 10. I think things would be a lot different if we played Ohio State and Penn State every single year. Then beating them would be a lot more essential. Instead it is and will always be easy to shrug off those losses. While Wisconsin may not be Ohio State good all the time I do think they should be beating them and Penn State more than they have recently.

 

Right now beating OSU is probably a 1 out of 10 chance.

PSU is probably a 3 out of 10 chance.

 

The talent gap with OSU is too massive and PSU has slightly better talent but Franklin is a better coach than Chryst.

[MrTPlush]

Define long balls. Coan has thrown his fair share long passes. I think it is lofty to expect Jack Coan to toss around 30+ yard bombs. Should they take that shot more? Maybe, but I think Chryst is real content on playing it safe and playing the chip away game. Which isn’t terrible when Jonathan Taylor is your back, but I could see the argument we don’t try to stretch the field more.

 

Just doesn’t seem to be Chryst’s way of offense and his current personnel sure doesn’t help him change his ways.

[tmwiese55]

Thing is I think they do have the personnel and he did do it in the past. I agree though he has not since he's been back now. Though I agree of course not as much as teams with true elite speed WRs. But with the attention our run game should garner I don't see how you can't put a few up in play action. Previous years I chalked up to Horni have no arm strength, so I get it. But Cephus can beat people deep and I don't see why Taylor and Prior can't either. Davis probably seems more like a possession guy. They threw plenty of deep balls with Abbrederis and Erickson type guys in the past. Stave was just an OK QB and they threw tons of deep balls, though I do know that was post PC.

 

I suppose my best guess now is that since PC has been back (take out 2018 for all discussion, such a weird year) the D has been so good that he's just playing ball control low risk on O. And maybe he's not calling plays, they don't tell us. But, I think with having good WRs now and seemingly a solid at least Tolzien level type QB I'd agree it's time to start trying to be more aggressive. Although as said the OLine is not on par with those teams of the past.

 

I just keep thinking combine 2010-11 O with our current level of D (take out 2018) and you could make some serious noise.

[PeaveyFury]

Franklin is a better coach than Chryst.

 

I think this is very incorrect. Franklin is a better recruiter and PR guy than Chryst, but I don’t believe for a second that he’s a better coach. Chryst struggles to communicate, he doesn’t struggle to coach football at a high level.

[yourout]

Franklin is a better coach than Chryst.

 

I think this is very incorrect. Franklin is a better recruiter and PR guy than Chryst, but I don’t believe for a second that he’s a better coach. Chryst struggles to communicate, he doesn’t struggle to coach football at a high level.

 

While I don't think it's a huge gap if I was an AD hiring a new football head coach and I had my pick of the two it would be Franklin.

[tmwiese55]

Running through PSU schedules I see a whole bunch of road losses to good teams. And, losses to NW, Temple, Pitt. Several losses to MSU, which apparently is supposed to be easy. Frankly not sure how he has a job haha. Bunch of bowl losses, even though their opponents probably didn't care.

 

In all seriousness, I have a friend who went to PSU so I at least get some takes from a diehard. I remember he and his boys all wanted Franklin gone in the 2015/16 timeframe. They lost to Pitt, then barely beat Temple, then got destroyed by Mich in early 2016. He wanted him gone after that game. Then everything clicked for McSorley and they went on to beat us in the B1G title game that year. Now, he's loved there and basically entrenched for years. What a difference a couple years make,overall I think he's a great coach. What he did to save himself was give up control of the O, he brought in Joe Moorhead and gave him control in 2016 and that's when it all turned around. So, yea he's probably not the Xs and Os guru type guy but overall a good coach. Good leader, recruiter, PR, etc and that's all important to the job.

 

Also, made me remember that 52-49 Rose Bowl loss to USC they had. Remember how awesome that game was? One of the most entertaining games I've ever seen.

[tmwiese55]

Franklin is a better coach than Chryst.

 

I think this is very incorrect. Franklin is a better recruiter and PR guy than Chryst, but I don’t believe for a second that he’s a better coach. Chryst struggles to communicate, he doesn’t struggle to coach football at a high level.

 

While I don't think it's a huge gap if I was an AD hiring a new football head coach and I had my pick of the two it would be Franklin.

 

Circumstances matter though. Are you hiring Franklin to coach in our location with our recruiting limitations? A guy like him who is a tremendous recruiter loses his biggest advantage if he gets put in WI, Iowa or NW type spot. If I'm say Florida or an SEC team, yea Franklin all day down there. Heck, I guess most teams yea I'd go Franklin, so I generally agree. But in WI situation where you have to develop and do what they're doing here, PC is probably the better coach and fit. Or say you could dump PC today and bring Franklin in, I wouldn't do it because 4-5 years from now he's going to leave for a bigger job with more money and we're left with the turmoil that comes after. Franklin is also from Penn, he's the perfect fit there much like Chryst is here.

 

All that said, I fully agree PC needs to figure out how after 5 years the O isn't humming yet.

[LouisEly]

They get embarrassed by Illinois and people want to talk CFP?

 

Lol at this point they should be thrilled to even play in the Big Ten Championship game. They essentially have to win out to have that opportunity and even then they don’t control their destiny.

"Embarrassed" is what happened to Ohio State last year, losing by 29 at Purdue, a team that went 6-7 (and, ironically, lost to Eastern Michigan).

 

"Embarrassed" is also what happened to Ohio State the year before, losing by 31 at Iowa, a team that went 8-5 (3-5 in conference).

 

In neither year did Ohio State play in the CFP playoffs, but:

1) they didn't lose another game either of those years

B) they played in a "New Year's Six" bowl game each of those years

3) they look primed to be in the CFP this year

 

Losing to Illinois by no means is a death sentence to UW, nor does it cut the Badgers out of a New Year's Six bowl.

 

And losing to a middling Big Ten team can happen to anybody. Just ask Ohio State fans. If you watched the 2nd half of the Illinois-Michigan game the week before, you saw them come back from a 28-0 deficit to score 25 unanswered and could have beaten Michigan if it were not for two fourth quarter fumbles. They figured something out last week, and gained a lot of confidence that they brought against UW.

[PeaveyFury]

Losing to Illinois by no means is a death sentence to UW, nor does it cut the Badgers out of a New Year's Six bowl.

 

One more time for emphasis, and Louis' take is a very good one overall.

 

What did most people think was the ceiling for UW this year, realistically? Winning the west, getting beat in the BiG Championship, and hopefully playing in a New Year's Six Bowl? Probably. And all still very possible.

[MrTPlush]

The loss was embarrassing. They were 30+ favorites, on the fringe of the CFP field of four, came in undefeated, and some are labeling it the worst upset in Wisconsin history. I could go on.

 

Illinois isn’t middling either, they are bottom of the barrel. Last or second to last every year since 2011. 2011 was their last ranked win (ASU #22). Their last Big Ten ranked win was Ohio State in 2007 (they were #1). I may have missed something, but that is what I found. Most of their wins the last decade seem to be those lousy warm up games before conference play.

 

If that wasn’t embarrassing...nothing is embarrassing to you I’d guess. It is what it is...but let’s not try to sugar coat it.

[PeaveyFury]

The loss was embarrassing. They were 30+ favorites, on the fringe of the CFP field of four, came in undefeated, and some are labeling it the worst upset in Wisconsin history. I could go on......

 

If that wasn’t embarrassing...nothing is embarrassing to you I’d guess. It is what it is...but let’s not try to sugar coat it.

 

People calling it the worst loss in Wisconsin history clearly aren't old enough to remember the loss to Minnesota in 1993 that probably prevented them from ACTUALLY winning a National Championship, or a horrendous loss to Cincy in 1999 that may have done the same.

 

I doubt anyone at that time thought Alvarez 'might not be the right guy for the job', though. Again, I think the fan base for Wisconsin sports has become spoiled and fairly intolerant of normal losses that happen on occasion to most programs. We only think it happens to Wisconsin, though, for some reason.

[LouisEly]

Illinois isn’t middling either, they are bottom of the barrel. Last or second to last every year since 2011.

Wisconsin was the bottom of the barrel in the late 80's and early 90's.

 

Doesn't matter where you were, it matters where you are now.

[MrTPlush]

For the record I have never been a huge Chryst fan. So it’s not over one loss.

 

And to be even more clear my opinions aren’t some emotional tear jerking overreaction. I’d have to care enough for that...and I really don’t. I lose more sleep over a May Brewers loss than that Illinois loss.

 

I’m not really convinced Illinois is back to relevance. I don’t believe they have been recruiting better recently. So maybe that will change.

[PeaveyFury]

For the record I have never been a huge Chryst fan. So it’s not over one loss.

 

That actually seems worse, somehow. It seems like the people who dislike Chryst didn't like him being hired in the first place, and his fairly significant amount of success as a coach has done nothing to change that opinion, for some reason.

[pacopete4]

The loss was embarrassing. They were 30+ favorites, on the fringe of the CFP field of four, came in undefeated, and some are labeling it the worst upset in Wisconsin history. I could go on......

 

If that wasn’t embarrassing...nothing is embarrassing to you I’d guess. It is what it is...but let’s not try to sugar coat it.

 

People calling it the worst loss in Wisconsin history clearly aren't old enough to remember the loss to Minnesota in 1993 that probably prevented them from ACTUALLY winning a National Championship, or a horrendous loss to Cincy in 1999 that may have done the same.

 

I doubt anyone at that time thought Alvarez 'might not be the right guy for the job', though. Again, I think the fan base for Wisconsin sports has become spoiled and fairly intolerant of normal losses that happen on occasion to most programs. We only think it happens to Wisconsin, though, for some reason.

 

Neither of those seasons were going to result in a National Championship. 1993, they go on to tie Ohio State which would’ve taken them out of it. In 1999, they lose to Cincy but then lose Michigan the week after. Neither of these seasons were going to play out for a Natty bid as there was no playoffs.

 

Alvarez was great for the role he played in resurrecting Badger football but in the end, he wasn’t “the guy” for job of taking us to highest level. He had opportunities and blew it. Chryst feels like much of the same right now. Call if a spoiled fan base all you want but it’s okay for fans to want more. The path is there for a Badgers team to get into a playoff format for something real and hopefully either Chyst or someone else will get them to do that someday.

[OldHeidelberg]

Neither of those seasons were going to result in a National Championship. 1993, they go on to tie Ohio State which would’ve taken them out of it. In 1999, they lose to Cincy but then lose Michigan the week after. Neither of these seasons were going to play out for a Natty bid as there was no playoffs.

 

 

I remember that Gopher loss as a possible nat title killer. Just looked the final rankings had we beat the Gophers we would have finished 11-0-1 and been the only unbeaten at the top of the polls other than 11-0 Auburn who was banned from postseason play. That was a crushing loss at the time, I was living in Minneapolis but had to listen to it on the radio for some reason. If they beat OSU next week this loss won't seem that big a deal, I sort of like their chances coming off a loss like this.

[PeaveyFury]

Neither of those seasons were going to result in a National Championship. 1993, they go on to tie Ohio State which would’ve taken them out of it. In 1999, they lose to Cincy but then lose Michigan the week after. Neither of these seasons were going to play out for a Natty bid as there was no playoffs.

 

 

I remember that Gopher loss as a possible nat title killer. Just looked the final rankings had we beat the Gophers we would have finished 11-0-1 and been the only unbeaten at the top of the polls other than 11-0 Auburn who was banned from postseason play. That was a crushing loss at the time

 

Yep. No other team without a loss. The tie didn’t matter, as they’d have possibly been named the champ.

 

And that Michigan loss was a 5 point loss to the#4 team in the country. That 1999 team finished 4th overall despite the two losses. If they had one loss by five total points, they may not have won it all, but they might have finished 2nd.

[pacopete4]

Huh? Nebraska had no losses. West Virgina has no losses and were still jumped by FSU (that years champ) to play for a Natty. Wisconsin wasn’t getting in.

[Jimbo]

The loss was embarrassing. They were 30+ favorites, on the fringe of the CFP field of four, came in undefeated, and some are labeling it the worst upset in Wisconsin history. I could go on......

 

If that wasn’t embarrassing...nothing is embarrassing to you I’d guess. It is what it is...but let’s not try to sugar coat it.

 

People calling it the worst loss in Wisconsin history clearly aren't old enough to remember the loss to Minnesota in 1993 that probably prevented them from ACTUALLY winning a National Championship, or a horrendous loss to Cincy in 1999 that may have done the same.

 

Keep in mind what many people overlook: due to the Minnesota loss, Wisconsin had one loss and Ohio State had zero losses going into their game. Ohio State could afford to play for a tie, and they did (it backfired due to their loss to Michigan). If Wisconsin beats Minnesota, both teams undefeated in the conference and Ohio State plays for the win. In that case, loss instead of a tie and no Rose Bowl.

[PeaveyFury]

Huh? Nebraska had no losses. West Virgina has no losses and were still jumped by FSU (that years champ) to play for a Natty. Wisconsin wasn’t getting in.

 

If you're referring to the disaster that was the "Bowl Coalition Championship," you're correct because the Big Ten and Pac-10 were excluded from competing in it. The Big Ten didn't play for a National Championship the length of its existence as a result. (Note, the Rose Bowl was excluded from the Bowl Coalition as a result).

 

Poll voters weren't obligated to choose the Orange Bowl's winner as the National Champion, which is why FSU only narrowly edged out Notre Dame in the Coaches' poll anyway.

 

The belief is that an undefeated Wisconsin team had a chance to earn at worst a split championship and a claim for the title, which is very plausible.