Freddy Peralta - relief ace?

[adambr2]

So although it's been a very small sample size, Peralta's starter/reliever splits have been a night and day difference. He's been atrocious as a starter (albeit brilliant at times), but dominating as a reliever. So at this point, where do we go from here? It's not totally out of the blue -- Freddy's lack of a 3rd pitch gives pause on whether he can ever really maintain consistency as a starter. But it does make him even more intriguing as a reliever -- he may be able to operate more in the mid 90's now with regularity out of the pen, looking more like triple digits with his delivery.

 

Is it too soon to think Freddy's future may be as a reliever, with a possible relief ace type ceiling (probably throwing that term around a little too casually. There aren't many relief aces in baseball. But Freddy could be a very good reliever, I think).

 

Now the part that makes this tough right now is that we already have put Corbin Burnes' starter development on hold out of necessity, and we might be headed down the same road with Peralta. Long-term, I'm sure the organization would feel mixed about getting only 1 starter out of Hader, Peralta, Woodruff and Burnes, but getting 2-3 relief aces out of it.

[Outlander]

It may be the way to go this year but would be hesitant to say that is his ceiling at 23. I thought Peralta could have been more of a relief ace down the stretch last year with his dominance of righties but it never really materialized. However, this year right handed hitters have hit Peralta rather well when starting but when in the bullpen Peralta is again dominant against them.

[MrTPlush]

If he is anywhere near a Josh Hader in the pen that will likely seal his long term fate. Like it or not, but at that point it would be hard to justify messing that up and taking that out of the bullpen to attempt the rotation again where who knows how long the growing pains would last...or if it would even work.

 

Unfortunately he was too terrible in the rotation to keep there and as a highly competitive team in the near future we can't just let these starters struggle for 2+ years to figure it out. To be honest another relief ace on the opposite side of the mound as Hader might even work out better for the Brewers the way they like to use their pen.

 

He is only 23, but the current state of the team doesn't bode well for a guy to struggle in the rotation when he can be a force in the bullpen....which it is too early to know if Peralta can do either of those long term.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

One of the reasons the Brewers pegged Josh Hader for a pen role to begin with was secondary pitches that either weren't strong or were unreliable. This appears to be the same issue they are having with Peralta currently. Yeah, he's only 23, but we were saying the same things about Hader a couple seasons ago ... that his work in the pen was great, but may not be permanent. Well, Hader has been so good out there that they haven't considered moving him back to the rotation. I have a feeling that if Peralta continues to dominate out of the pen, he may have the same fate. And that may be a good thing in the long run.

[coolhandluke121]

I've always thought Peralta reminds me a little of K-Rod. Not the same arsenal obviously, but he has a similar way of keeping people guessing because of the movement on his fastball. He relies on guys to chase. Nobody knows where his pitches are going to end up, including him. I think that kind of stuff plays better out of the pen because his pitch count will be high at times.

[tmwiese55]

I've always thought Peralta reminds me a little of K-Rod. Not the same arsenal obviously, but he has a similar way of keeping people guessing because of the movement on his fastball. He relies on guys to chase. Nobody knows where his pitches are going to end up, including him. I think that kind of stuff plays better out of the pen because his pitch count will be high at times.

 

And his delivery is reminiscent of KRod. With that type of almost violent delivery a change-up would be devastating for him, just like it was for KRod. He just has to find it.

[KeithStone53151]

Right, the changeup is pretty much going to make or break Peralta's career. We've seen 1.5 pitches doesn't cut it at this level by his results. I also think this relief ace stuff is wildly overblown. I was watching the game yesterday, it seemed like everything was smashed...but right at players. He basically got lucky yesterday. He's definitely been good other times, but he's nowhere near Hader right now. When Hader came up, he immediately started striking out the world and nobody could hit him...comparing Peralta to Hader is simply not fair right now.

[OldHeidelberg]

Right, the changeup is pretty much going to make or break Peralta's career. We've seen 1.5 pitches doesn't cut it at this level by his results. I also think this relief ace stuff is wildly overblown. I was watching the game yesterday, it seemed like everything was smashed...but right at players. He basically got lucky yesterday. He's definitely been good other times, but he's nowhere near Hader right now. When Hader came up, he immediately started striking out the world and nobody could hit him...comparing Peralta to Hader is simply not fair right now.

 

Yeah, he can't be trusted with a small lead, only in situations like last night where worst case he blows up a game we were losing anyway. I would rather they send him AAA to start and work on his control, we have other guys who can fill the long relief/spot starter role he has been in for the last couple of months. I feel like he is maybe another one of those guys who is kept around because everyone likes him. I guess if they decide he is a reliever I have no problem developing him in the majors. I am not down on his potential at all, just feel like both Freddy and Burnes could use some AAA success to get back on track.

[tmwiese55]

Yea I'd be all for a month or two done dedicated to control and a change up. Don't care on the game results, just throw a change up a lot and keep working on it

[MillerParkSouth]

One of the reasons the Brewers pegged Josh Hader for a pen role to begin with was secondary pitches that either weren't strong or were unreliable. This appears to be the same issue they are having with Peralta currently. Yeah, he's only 23, but we were saying the same things about Hader a couple seasons ago ... that his work in the pen was great, but may not be permanent. Well, Hader has been so good out there that they haven't considered moving him back to the rotation. I have a feeling that if Peralta continues to dominate out of the pen, he may have the same fate. And that may be a good thing in the long run.

This is exactly why I think Freddy will end up in the bullpen long term, which is honestly fine.

[Lathund]

Right, the changeup is pretty much going to make or break Peralta's career.

 

Yep. He's dominant against RHB (.191/.259/.331 so far at the MLB level), but struggles against lefties (.191/.259/.331), and against lefties that's just the pitch he needs. With how good his fastball (or fastballs, as he can switch it up a bit) is, a changeup alone will get him far and would make sense that he focuses on it over the curveball due to the struggles against lefties.

 

Anyway, I'm hopeful about Freddy. I'm not too bothered with the role, that'll sort itself out. He's already very good against righties, overall his stuff yield a very good strikeout rate (11 K/9), and his control is massively improved from last year (2.5 bb/9 vs 4.6 last year). Better command and a way to get lefties out more reliably (likely a changeup) and he'll be very good. As we've seen in his good starts he certainly has the ability to be a starter, just a matter of finding some consistency and making the bad outings less bad. Despite his unconventional build and repertoire, I think he's someone who only needs a small improvement for it to really click.

 

But if I had to speculate about the role, I think the goal is still firmly that both Peralta (and Burnes) will be back in the rotation, and that the strength of that resolve is a lot stronger than it was with Hader as he was just *that* good in relief, and had really struggled as a starter in AAA. Which might have been Colorado Springs, or the small sample size, but might also have been something that made them think he was more suited to relief. I think we forget how dominant Peralta looks at times. For instance, he has one 8-inning shutout and two 7-inning shutouts, allowing a combined 9 walks + hits between those three. I think that they want to give him every possible chance to make good on his obvious ability.

[MrTPlush]

Right, the changeup is pretty much going to make or break Peralta's career.

 

Yep. He's dominant against RHB (.191/.259/.331 so far at the MLB level), but struggles against lefties (.191/.259/.331), and against lefties that's just the pitch he needs. With how good his fastball (or fastballs, as he can switch it up a bit) is, a changeup alone will get him far and would make sense that he focuses on it over the curveball due to the struggles against lefties.

 

[sarcasm]Looks like pretty good splits to me.[/sarcasm]

[Lathund]

Right, the changeup is pretty much going to make or break Peralta's career.

 

Yep. He's dominant against RHB (.191/.259/.331 so far at the MLB level), but struggles against lefties (.191/.259/.331), and against lefties that's just the pitch he needs. With how good his fastball (or fastballs, as he can switch it up a bit) is, a changeup alone will get him far and would make sense that he focuses on it over the curveball due to the struggles against lefties.

 

[sarcasm]Looks like pretty good splits to me.[/sarcasm]

 

Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V are too darn close to eachother!

 

The LHB splits should of course be .265/.367/.483

[KeithStone53151]

As much as I ragged on Peralta, he is still young and should still improve. His control is definitely much better. I tend to agree he might be a better fit for a relief role though. We'll see though, he's still young.

[FVBrewerFan]

Hader, Burnes, and especially Peralta are atill young. Any or all of them may be moved to starter down the road. In the meantime,I still think they should use Peralta as a spot starter for a few day games, where his delivery really seems to play even better.

[wntrtxn21]

Right, the changeup is pretty much going to make or break Peralta's career. We've seen 1.5 pitches doesn't cut it at this level by his results. I also think this relief ace stuff is wildly overblown. I was watching the game yesterday, it seemed like everything was smashed...but right at players. He basically got lucky yesterday. He's definitely been good other times, but he's nowhere near Hader right now. When Hader came up, he immediately started striking out the world and nobody could hit him...comparing Peralta to Hader is simply not fair right now.

 

I have to wonder about the Brewer minor lg. pitching coaches. So many young guys come up w/o any sort of change-up. How in the world did Peralta progress w/o somebody showing him and then demand he throw a change-up? A circle change or even a straight palm ball is thrown like a fastball. Neither pitch is that hard to learn or throw. With Peralta's motion, a change-up would be a devastating pitch for him. It would make his 92-93 fastball look much quicker and help dramatically against lefties.

[FVBrewerFan]

Right, the changeup is pretty much going to make or break Peralta's career. We've seen 1.5 pitches doesn't cut it at this level by his results. I also think this relief ace stuff is wildly overblown. I was watching the game yesterday, it seemed like everything was smashed...but right at players. He basically got lucky yesterday. He's definitely been good other times, but he's nowhere near Hader right now. When Hader came up, he immediately started striking out the world and nobody could hit him...comparing Peralta to Hader is simply not fair right now.

 

I have to wonder about the Brewer minor lg. pitching coaches. So many young guys come up w/o any sort of change-up. How in the world did Peralta progress w/o somebody showing him and then demand he throw a change-up? A circle change or even a straight palm ball is thrown like a fastball. Neither pitch is that hard to learn or throw. With Peralta's motion, a change-up would be a devastating pitch for him. It would make his 92-93 fastball look much quicker and help dramatically against lefties.

 

Agree completely. Harped about this in far too many posts. Everyone is fastball/slider, and even the slider is usually suspect. Big heat was effective for a while, but hitters have adjusted. Almost criminal these guys aren't taught how to throw various changes, and get proficient at throwing the one they're comfortable with. Then again, always wondered why there arent more (any) knuckleballers anymore.

[OnTheBlack]

Right, the changeup is pretty much going to make or break Peralta's career. We've seen 1.5 pitches doesn't cut it at this level by his results. I also think this relief ace stuff is wildly overblown. I was watching the game yesterday, it seemed like everything was smashed...but right at players. He basically got lucky yesterday. He's definitely been good other times, but he's nowhere near Hader right now. When Hader came up, he immediately started striking out the world and nobody could hit him...comparing Peralta to Hader is simply not fair right now.

 

I have to wonder about the Brewer minor lg. pitching coaches. So many young guys come up w/o any sort of change-up. How in the world did Peralta progress w/o somebody showing him and then demand he throw a change-up? A circle change or even a straight palm ball is thrown like a fastball. Neither pitch is that hard to learn or throw. With Peralta's motion, a change-up would be a devastating pitch for him. It would make his 92-93 fastball look much quicker and help dramatically against lefties.

 

Who says they don't? I'm not sure who all these other guys are who don't throw a change, but with Peralta, he was 21 when he was called up and he threw a change. He was rushed up a bit, but he certainly threw a change. But when you're 21 years old and making your first start in Coors and you strike out 13 and don't give up any runs using your two best pitches, it can stunt the growth of that third pitch. There aren't a lot of opportunities to develop a 3rd pitch while pitching for a contender.

[OnTheBlack]

Right, the changeup is pretty much going to make or break Peralta's career. We've seen 1.5 pitches doesn't cut it at this level by his results. I also think this relief ace stuff is wildly overblown. I was watching the game yesterday, it seemed like everything was smashed...but right at players. He basically got lucky yesterday. He's definitely been good other times, but he's nowhere near Hader right now. When Hader came up, he immediately started striking out the world and nobody could hit him...comparing Peralta to Hader is simply not fair right now.

 

I have to wonder about the Brewer minor lg. pitching coaches. So many young guys come up w/o any sort of change-up. How in the world did Peralta progress w/o somebody showing him and then demand he throw a change-up? A circle change or even a straight palm ball is thrown like a fastball. Neither pitch is that hard to learn or throw. With Peralta's motion, a change-up would be a devastating pitch for him. It would make his 92-93 fastball look much quicker and help dramatically against lefties.

 

Agree completely. Harped about this in far too many posts. Everyone is fastball/slider, and even the slider is usually suspect. Big heat was effective for a while, but hitters have adjusted. Almost criminal these guys aren't taught how to throw various changes, and get proficient at throwing the one they're comfortable with. Then again, always wondered why there arent more (any) knuckleballers anymore.

 

 

The fastball slider combo is working pretty well for Woodruff. The problem with Burnes and other pitchers isn't that they don't throw a changeup, they get into trouble locating their fastball.

 

But again, the Brewers do teach changeup's. But a pitcher has to throw what he's most comfortable with and when you shift your draft ideology and you start veering more towards more advanced college arms, they're going to throw the pitches they feel the most comfortable with.

 

It wasn't long ago that the Brewers minor league pitching coaches were almost fanatical about making every single pitcher throw changeup's. That when they were trying to develop the Rogers, Jones, Jeffress(who throws an exceptional change) prep arms. They did in fact "demand" that they learn and throw a changeup. Seems like the Brewers are doing a better job of developing pitching now than they did in the past.

 

Jimmy Nelson was the same. I remember him earlier in his career talking about how he wanted to go back to his change more, but that he'd gotten away from it when he graduated to the big leagues because he had a higher level of confidence in his curve as his 3rd pitch.

 

The thing I take the most exception with is how easy it is to develop and throw a good changeup. If it were that easy, every pitcher would do it. These guys aren't going away from a pitch they routinely threw in the minor leagues because it's so effective and easy. They're doing it because they have a higher level of comfort with their other pitches.

[OnTheBlack]

Found the article on Nelson.

 

Talks about how often he threw the change in the minor leagues and how he went away from it. So again, I don't see this as some defect in the Brewers minor league coaches.

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/brewers-jimmy-nelson-focused-on-changeup/c-166354252

[FVBrewerFan]

Woodruff throws his change 15%, so he's not just fb/slider. Maybe its not soley an issue with coaching in the minors, sounds like its organization wide. Of course some of these guys aren't as comfortable with a change, its the staff's job to make them throw it anyhow until they get comfortable. Like changing your folf swing.