Bunting to break up a no hitter

[MVP2110]

It's just the way I prefer things. In sports I want to win because I am better than the other player/team. I want to be able to defend someone instead of having to just try and draw a foul. In baseball I want to get a hit on them and I don't want to try take away a legendary performance by by simply putting my bat out there. It just takes away from the spirit imo. It's not everyone's feelings and I don't think it should start a brawl, but I do think it's cheap. I don't want to win on cheap, I want to be better.

[FVBrewerFan]

This is getting/staying OT, but staying in front of the player is the whole point of defense in basketball. If the offensive player plows ahead anyhow (like Giannis does at times) the defensive player is rewarded for playing good defense, the offensive player gets a foul. Why is that cheap? If you're talking about flopping, that doesn't happen much anymore (at least in the NBA) because the refs are on top of that now. When defenders DO try that, they rarely get away with it. But getting charge is about as basic to defense in basketball as throwing to first as part of your defense in baseball.

[Oxy]

Originally, basketball was meant to be a non-contact sport. Once Jordan was allowed to carry the ball and travel to easily get past defenders and Barkley and Shaq were allowed to back guys down and overpower them the refs had no choice but to allow more contact. The letter of the law would even say that a big guy posting up can't use his hips to push a defender off the block but that went away sometime in the 80s/90s as well. It's a different game now.

[young guns]

You must also hate when a pitcher throws a cheap breaking ball. Pitchers should just win the matchup by throwing it past the hitter as hard as he can.

[dlk9s]

I am hoping someone can help me out. What is it about trying to break up a no hitter, or bunting to do so, that is wrong?

 

Because baseball has the highest percentage of humorless, joyless, self-important fogeys of any sport.

[MVP2110]

This is getting/staying OT, but staying in front of the player is the whole point of defense in basketball. If the offensive player plows ahead anyhow (like Giannis does at times) the defensive player is rewarded for playing good defense, the offensive player gets a foul. Why is that cheap? If you're talking about flopping, that doesn't happen much anymore (at least in the NBA) because the refs are on top of that now. When defenders DO try that, they rarely get away with it. But getting charge is about as basic to defense in basketball as throwing to first as part of your defense in baseball.

 

The Celtics literally admitted their strategy was to try and draw charges on Giannis. You saw defenders falling before he even makes contact with them. To be fair Ersan does the exact same thing and so does Brad Davison. To me it's cheap, to each their own.

 

And again I don't mind bunting for a hit to try and win the game, but just for the purpose of breaking up a no hitter I'm not a fan. From the spot they were in the game it looked like he only did it to try and break up a no hitter, not to try and actually win the game

[sveumrules]

From the spot they were in the game it looked like he only did it to try and break up a no hitter, not to try and actually win the game

 

Breaking up a no hitter is generally a necessary first step towards winning the game.

 

I guess a comedy of walks, hit by pitches & errors could always break out though.

[MrTPlush]

I think there are two types of charges in basketball. A) Guy driving to the basket etc. and B) Guy trying to draw a charge anywhere on the court. Charge under or by the basket is legit defense in my opinion. Doing it on the arc or mid-court...that's just lame to me. Brad Davidson....wow, glad that guy isn't on my team. The way he flops, goes for ridiculous charge attempted, and acts like a semi hit him when he gets bumped is beyond excessive. I hate watching flop/charge artists.

[stoutdude04]

You play to win the game - Herm Edward's

 

Take a charge, drop a bunt...why are those cheap? It takes skill to do those things. Pitchers are throwing 90 plus. How many bunts have the Brewers gotten for hits this year? It's a low percentage play because it's not easy to do.

[MrTPlush]

Okay come on now....skill to take a charge...

 

That is like saying it takes skill to get hit by a pitch.

[stoutdude04]

Okay come on now....skill to take a charge...

 

That is like saying it takes skill to get hit by a pitch.

 

Moving your feet and getting into position isnt skill?

 

Edit: and if it isnt a skill, using it to compare it to bunting is way off. Although I think it takes skill to be able to move your feet quickly and get into position.

[MrTPlush]

Okay come on now....skill to take a charge...

 

That is like saying it takes skill to get hit by a pitch.

 

Moving your feet and getting into position isnt skill?

 

Hardly...that is really stretching it to call that a "skill".

[stoutdude04]

Haha. Okay. Footwork isnt a skill.

 

Then no comparing bunting and taking a charge.

 

And just an fyi: There are six skill-related fitness components:agility, balance, coordination, speed, power, and reaction time. Skilled athletes typically excel in all six areas. Agility is the ability to change and control the direction and position of the body while maintaining a constant, rapid motion.

 

That's why I thought taking charge would be a skillful act. If you don't think so, that's cool.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't think comparing the bunt to a charge makes a lot of sense and I definitely think taking a charge consistently in the NBA is a skill.

 

Also, how often are guys asked to bunt and can't do it? Is doing it for a base hit really easier than getting a "real" hit?

[Oxy]

Okay come on now....skill to take a charge...

 

That is like saying it takes skill to get hit by a pitch.

 

Moving your feet and getting into position isnt skill?

 

Hardly...that is really stretching it to call that a "skill".

 

Yeah, this is completely ridiculous, and the analogy is not even close to being similar.

 

The whole object of playing good defense in BB is to stay between the offense and the basket, then contest/block the shot and get a rebound. The best defenders anticipate where the offense is going and get in front of them to draw a charge. There isn't another way to play better D...that is the best possible defense to play and it takes a tremendous amount of effort, anticipation, and skill to do it well.

 

Bunting is a choice that may or may not be the best play.

[Baldkin]

Okay come on now....skill to take a charge...

 

That is like saying it takes skill to get hit by a pitch.

 

When the same guys lead the league in drawing charges (and getting hit by pitches) fairly often, it's most definitely a skill.

[Oxy]

Okay come on now....skill to take a charge...

 

That is like saying it takes skill to get hit by a pitch.

 

When the same guys lead the league in drawing charges (and getting hit by pitches) fairly often, it's most definitely a skill.

 

This just keeps getting worse and worse. It DOESN'T take skill to crowd the plate and lean over the inside corner and not move.

 

It does take skill to beat a guy to a spot on the basketball court.

[Baldkin]

Okay come on now....skill to take a charge...

 

That is like saying it takes skill to get hit by a pitch.

 

When the same guys lead the league in drawing charges (and getting hit by pitches) fairly often, it's most definitely a skill.

 

This just keeps getting worse and worse. It DOESN'T take skill to crowd the plate and lean over the inside corner and not move.

 

It does take skill to beat a guy to a spot on the basketball court.

 

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2014/3/6/5475368/is-hbp-pa-a-repeatable-skill-for-teams-or-players-hit-by-pitch-pirates-choo

 

It may be that team HBP/PA is largely (or almost completely) luck -- but that is not the case with player HBP/PA. Thanks to Steve Staude's hitting stat correlation tool, which uses data from 2007 to 2013, I can report that there has been a significant year-to-year correlation for HBP/PA for hitters with a minimum of 300 PA: 0.622 (n=1222, 95% confidence). That's not as strong a correlation as BB% (0.746), but it's not that far off, either.

 

Anyway, I'm done here, this argument is stupid.