Cubs sign Craig Kimbrel (3 years / $43 million)

[Brew crew 92]

 

Well then lets just sit on our hands and do nothing.

 

What the heck?

 

Well at least the overpay would be cash and not prospects, so what’s the downside?

 

Not having the cash to use later when better options might be available.

 

I think I misunderstood, I meant spend the cash for rental contracts at the deadline or near the deadline.

[FVBrewerFan]

Just curious 92, what type of prospect package do you think it would take to get Scherzer?

[Brew crew 92]

Trade deadline could be interesting. I wonder where the Brewers would need to be sitting for Stearns to sell? 5 games out of a wild card? No idea.

 

Wow, 3 million fans to the park, and we sell? Not happening.

[pacopete4]

Trade deadline could be interesting. I wonder where the Brewers would need to be sitting for Stearns to sell? 5 games out of a wild card? No idea.

 

Wow, 3 million fans to the park, and we sell? Not happening.

 

Brewers on pace for 2.7M but it very well could. It would be very wise to trade away the one-year deals if they are not in contention. Could restock pretty quickly in that situation.

[homer]

Trade deadline could be interesting. I wonder where the Brewers would need to be sitting for Stearns to sell? 5 games out of a wild card? No idea.

 

Wow, 3 million fans to the park, and we sell? Not happening.

 

And three years from now you'd be screaming when they have 70 wins.

[adambr2]

Trade deadline could be interesting. I wonder where the Brewers would need to be sitting for Stearns to sell? 5 games out of a wild card? No idea.

 

Wow, 3 million fans to the park, and we sell? Not happening.

 

I think we are far more likely to be buyers than sellers, but your attendance should have zero to do with your decision to buy or sell.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I thought the number of fans at the park didn't matter.

[Roderick]

Don't you think the Brewers were just keeping this reliever down until later in the season? He has not allowed a run in 83%+ of his outings, I think we are just holding him back from accruing too many stats just to save money later.

 

don't you think Counsell will unleash Hernan Perez as closer probably pretty soon.

[Brew crew 92]

Just curious 92, what type of prospect package do you think it would take to get Scherzer?

 

Too much not interested. Also not interested in Greinke. Now EE maybe. But his D at first concerning.

[tmwiese55]

Personally, I'm still pretty ticked we cheaped out and didn't get Darvish.

[KeithStone53151]

Trade deadline could be interesting. I wonder where the Brewers would need to be sitting for Stearns to sell? 5 games out of a wild card? No idea.

 

Certainly a fair thing to wonder, but I can't imagine him selling. 5 games out of the wildcard likely means under 500. Washington is 5 games out of the wildcard right now at 28-33. We are 6 games over right now, hard to imagine this team going something like 18-24 over the next 42 games up until July 24th...that record would put us at 500. And our schedule is fairly soft over the next month or so. These 2 games are an anomally, obviously this team is good or they wouldn't be 6 games over 500 after starting with such a daunting schedule.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I'm optimistic on the team, but they're still going to have to have a nice stretch of play at some point. Saying they're going to do it soon sounds nice, but they've yet to really put it together and have kind of been in this 5-6 game over hump for a while. I thought it was starting when they came home to play Miami.

[trwi7]

Regarding selling, I think number of teams ahead would be more of a factor than number of games behind. If we're like 3 games back but have 4 teams ahead of us or something that might make the decision interesting.

[homer]

Regarding selling, I think number of teams ahead would be more of a factor than number of games behind. If we're like 3 games back but have 4 teams ahead of us or something that might make the decision interesting.

 

yeah that makes sense.

[MrTPlush]

Just curious 92, what type of prospect package do you think it would take to get Scherzer?

 

Too much not interested. Also not interested in Greinke. Now EE maybe. But his D at first concerning.

 

Not like Thames and Aguilar are gold glovers.

[Thurston Fluff]

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Brewers could have done it had they wanted to do so. That said it is probably more than they wanted to spend and other moves would be limited. The biggest problem I see is this team is in a win now mode but isn't being run that way. It's being run kinda in between. In between never works. Who on this team is going to be a productive member in 2 years? Outside of Arcia and Yelich I can't see anyone. The future is murky at best so why not put it all out there now and make a run at it this year. Even if you somehow hold off the Cubs are you beating the Dodgers with what you have? Kimbrel helps you this year and next. The farm system seems a bit dry position player wise outside of Keston. When is the last time this organization made two playoffs in a row? 81-82? That is ridiculous.

 

There is a difference between win now mode and will now at all cost mode. I really don't want them to go all in on a one or two year window then have another five years of crap. As far as who on this team is going to be productive two years from now I can see far more than two. Our pitching staff overall has some guys who should be very productive for at least four or five more years. We just sent down a young second baseman with all star potential who will likely be productive for us for another six years. With Braun's contract coming off the books soon we also have free agency to fill some holes. We also seem to have a front office that finds good talent for a reasonable price and finally seems capable of findings and developing pitching.

[clancyphile]

In and amongst all this talk of what an awful owner atanasio is oh, what I'd really be curious of, and what we'll probably never know is if during any discussion the Brewers might have had with Kimbrel or his agent is if they asked if he would be open to being a little more flexible with his role. A strictly ninth inning only 3 out closer doesn't really fit the Brewers Bullpen model, the way they operate right now. A guy who comes in to face the 6th 7th and 8th batters in a lineup in the ninth inning when the meat of the order was up the inning before, isn't really all that valuable on a given day. I understand that Hader would be the de facto eighth-inning guy but he's not always available every day, and if you want to use him for multiple Innings there might be stretches where he's not available for 2 days or more in a row.

 

Just a thought, wondering if that ever came up with Kimbrell's camp.

 

That may have been something...

 

As I said, if I'm the Cubs, I don't mind punting a rough 2019 IF Kimbrel returns to his prior form in 2020 and 2021. If Kimbrel doesn't...

 

Thinking it over more... while good Kimbrel is a huge plus if he is at his pre-2018 form, his contract becomes an albatross if he is struggling. The Crew could do better with young guns called up, even if they don't reach Kimbrel's ceiling.

[FVBrewerFan]

Just curious 92, what type of prospect package do you think it would take to get Scherzer?

 

Too much not interested. Also not interested in Greinke. Now EE maybe. But his D at first concerning.

 

Didn't you just suggest earlier tody the Brewers go get Scherzer or Greinke, EE, and possibly a couple others?

[HiAndTight]

I don’t see him being a dominant closer. No real logic as to why even, just my thoughts. He wasn’t great at the end of last year, now he’s jumping into a season without a true spring training. Boston didn’t seem to pursue bringing him back. I think this turns out to be a bad deal for the Cubs.

 

Boston couldn’t bring him back, 45 million contact would have cost them extra 23 million, because of the tax, the reports are saying his workouts in front of scouts and executives were “electric “

 

Good closers are very desirable so if he was "electric" why was he unsigned so long? I guess time will tell.

 

 

I really don't get the point to this type of argument. Are we honestly trying to say that Craig Kimbrel just isn't that good?

 

That the Brewers didn't want to use up all their remaining resources on Kimbrel is a perfectly valid reason for not signing him. That Kimbrel isn't that good...it seems kinda out of touch with his entire career up to this point.

 

We didn't sign Patrick Corbin....was that because he just that good or because we just simply can't afford it?

 

This is ALMOST as bad as "I've been watching the Brewers for X number of years and they owe me," argument. Kimbrel can be great and the Brewers can have decided to not sign him for other viable reasons. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

[Brew crew 92]

Just curious 92, what type of prospect package do you think it would take to get Scherzer?

 

Too much not interested. Also not interested in Greinke. Now EE maybe. But his D at first concerning.

 

Didn't you just suggest earlier tody the Brewers go get Scherzer or Greinke, EE, and possibly a couple others?

 

Forgive me, should have put inblue

[HiAndTight]

In and amongst all this talk of what an awful owner atanasio is oh, what I'd really be curious of, and what we'll probably never know is if during any discussion the Brewers might have had with Kimbrel or his agent is if they asked if he would be open to being a little more flexible with his role. A strictly ninth inning only 3 out closer doesn't really fit the Brewers Bullpen model, the way they operate right now. A guy who comes in to face the 6th 7th and 8th batters in a lineup in the ninth inning when the meat of the order was up the inning before, isn't really all that valuable on a given day. I understand that Hader would be the de facto eighth-inning guy but he's not always available every day, and if you want to use him for multiple Innings there might be stretches where he's not available for 2 days or more in a row.

 

Just a thought, wondering if that ever came up with Kimbrell's camp.

 

That may have been something...

 

As I said, if I'm the Cubs, I don't mind punting a rough 2019 IF Kimbrel returns to his prior form in 2020 and 2021. If Kimbrel doesn't...

 

Thinking it over more... while good Kimbrel is a huge plus if he is at his pre-2018 form, his contract becomes an albatross if he is struggling. The Crew could do better with young guns called up, even if they don't reach Kimbrel's ceiling.

 

He was also pretty dominant in 2018. Whip under 1.00, BAA of .146, FIP of 3.13, 13.9 Ks per 9 IP. If you just get his 2018 season and not the all-time great pre-2018 stats, you're still getting a great reliever. So this really hurts to see the Cubs get him. It would have hurt to see the Braves or Phillies get him as well. And this would have allowed to use Hader much more effectively IMO, it would have had a big ripple for the whole pen.

 

There's another side to this though that people aren't considering. Do we have any idea what the Brewers actually DID offer? We're just assuming that because the Cubs signed him for this much money that he would have signed with the Brewers. Chicago objectively is a more desirable destination than Milwaukee. Not for me personally, but for big time FA's, not hard to imagine he would pick the Cubs over the Brewers.

 

Either way, this would have been great this year, but costly in the future as everyone has pointed out. The BP issues as this year. Next year we should have Wahl and Knebel coming back and who knows who else will emerge. Houser, Webb, it's really not even worth guessing. We've got a lot of good young arms. Even Snell could be a guy contributing by the end of next year. The Brewers aren't "pinching pennies" for profit as some want to suggest, they're spending their pennies(though I find it comical we're talking about 45 million dollars as pennies) where they can to sustain success.

 

AS someone who wanted Kimbrel, I don't really see how you can get upset over that.

[HiAndTight]

 

Forgive me, should have put inblue

 

 

Ok, I gotta ask, why is it you DO NOT want two legitimate aces, but you're soooo incredibly upset about not signing Kimbrel??

 

You have shown you give almost zero regard to the future of the Brewers, either fiscally or with with regard to our farm system, just that they win now so that Uecker and Selig get to see them win(which didn't really work out for the Tigers,but lets ignore that).

 

Why yes to Kimbrel, no to Scherzer and Greinke?

[tmwiese55]

In and amongst all this talk of what an awful owner atanasio is oh, what I'd really be curious of, and what we'll probably never know is if during any discussion the Brewers might have had with Kimbrel or his agent is if they asked if he would be open to being a little more flexible with his role. A strictly ninth inning only 3 out closer doesn't really fit the Brewers Bullpen model, the way they operate right now. A guy who comes in to face the 6th 7th and 8th batters in a lineup in the ninth inning when the meat of the order was up the inning before, isn't really all that valuable on a given day. I understand that Hader would be the de facto eighth-inning guy but he's not always available every day, and if you want to use him for multiple Innings there might be stretches where he's not available for 2 days or more in a row.

 

Just a thought, wondering if that ever came up with Kimbrell's camp.

 

That may have been something...

 

As I said, if I'm the Cubs, I don't mind punting a rough 2019 IF Kimbrel returns to his prior form in 2020 and 2021. If Kimbrel doesn't...

 

Thinking it over more... while good Kimbrel is a huge plus if he is at his pre-2018 form, his contract becomes an albatross if he is struggling. The Crew could do better with young guns called up, even if they don't reach Kimbrel's ceiling.

 

He was also pretty dominant in 2018. Whip under 1.00, BAA of .146, FIP of 3.13, 13.9 Ks per 9 IP. If you just get his 2018 season and not the all-time great pre-2018 stats, you're still getting a great reliever. So this really hurts to see the Cubs get him. It would have hurt to see the Braves or Phillies get him as well. And this would have allowed to use Hader much more effectively IMO, it would have had a big ripple for the whole pen.

 

There's another side to this though that people aren't considering. Do we have any idea what the Brewers actually DID offer? We're just assuming that because the Cubs signed him for this much money that he would have signed with the Brewers. Chicago objectively is a more desirable destination than Milwaukee. Not for me personally, but for big time FA's, not hard to imagine he would pick the Cubs over the Brewers.

 

Either way, this would have been great this year, but costly in the future as everyone has pointed out. The BP issues as this year. Next year we should have Wahl and Knebel coming back and who knows who else will emerge. Houser, Webb, it's really not even worth guessing. We've got a lot of good young arms. Even Snell could be a guy contributing by the end of next year. The Brewers aren't "pinching pennies" for profit as some want to suggest, they're spending their pennies(though I find it comical we're talking about 45 million dollars as pennies) where they can to sustain success.

 

AS someone who wanted Kimbrel, I don't really see how you can get upset over that.

 

Did you see the mid July to the end of the year stats that were posted in this thread? They were not good. He was very shaky to finish last year. Obviously could be a blip on the radar, slumps happen. But have to think that's what scared a lot of people off. And that doesn't mean I or even those teams think he sucks. There is a middle ground between bad and the dominant force he was for years. But do you want to pay 15mil per year unless you're getting the superstar he was? That's the question and why ultimately so many teams passed. Every team would want him, but just not sure if he's worth that kind of salary. Really, no non elite Chapman or prime Kimbrel level closer really is.

[Brew crew 92]

 

Forgive me, should have put inblue

 

 

Ok, I gotta ask, why is it you DO NOT want two legitimate aces, but you're soooo incredibly upset about not signing Kimbrel??

 

You have shown you give almost zero regard to the future of the Brewers, either fiscally or with with regard to our farm system, just that they win now so that Uecker and Selig get to see them win(which didn't really work out for the Tigers,but lets ignore that).

 

Why yes to Kimbrel, no to Scherzer and Greinke?

 

Kimbrel > no prospects given up, 8 inning game for the next 425 games not including playoffs.

 

Scherzer > prospect capital too high.

 

Greinke > too much money, for two many years.

 

Soft heart for the man that created the brewers mlb franchise, the true biggest of all crew fans, paced thousands of miles sweating out brewer victories, and why is Ueck still talking brewer baseball? I can’t be the only one that wants to hear Ueck call the last out of the series victory.

 

I have stated multiple times the following:

 

When the team is potentially championship caliber > up payroll to break even or beyond.

 

When team is competitive > make a fair profit.

 

When team is rebuilding > cut payroll to nothing and make massive profit, but putting away $ for the large payroll year.

[HiAndTight]

 

Did you see the mid July to the end of the year stats that were posted in this thread? They were not good. He was very shaky to finish last year. Obviously could be a blip on the radar, slumps happen. But have to think that's what scared a lot of people off. And that doesn't mean I or even those teams think he sucks. There is a middle ground between bad and the dominant force he was for years. But do you want to pay 15mil per year unless you're getting the superstar he was? That's the question and why ultimately so many teams passed. Every team would want him, but just not sure if he's worth that kind of salary. Really, no non elite Chapman or prime Kimbrel level closer really is.

 

 

Yeah, all that shows me is a guy wasn't great for a couple weeks out of cherry picking stats to support a narrative. He was dominant in Sept except for 1/3 of an inning in which he gave up 4 Earned. 9 IP, 15K's 0 ER's the rest of the outings.

 

You take a guys worst stretch and you can alter the realities of a lot of different players. There is very little actual evidence to support that Kimbrel's anything but a dominant reliever.

 

And we have no idea why teams passed on him other than what they've said(or done in the past). The Braves are a notoriously cheap franchise. The Red Sox were not going to pay the luxury tax again(something you can sell to your fan base a bit more easily if you're the defending champs and you plan on going over it again in the near future).

 

Oh, and he was originally asking for over 100 million dollars. That'd seem like a more likely reason a given team passed on him. I don't believe teams were passing on Kimbrel at 3/43. Using this logic, why did so many teams pass on Grandal? We got him cheap.

 

Like I said, Kimbrel being great and it not being in the best interest for the Brewers to sign him can BOTH be true. Either way, stomping your feet....especially if said feet have been around and were adults during the late 70's/80's because we DIDN'T sign yet another high priced FA seems foolish to me.