Cubs sign Craig Kimbrel (3 years / $43 million)

[MrTPlush]

Kimbrel has not been that bad for the Cubs. Most of his appearances have been quite useful. Of his 6 appearances where runs were given up two were complete garbage time. So he has only given up runs in 4 meaningful situations. You could even cross off another one when he gave up 3 runs against us when the Cubs were already losing and scored zero runs in the game. He has actually only blown two games and then has the Cardinals loss where he blew the tie in his 22 appearances. For comparison Josh Hader has messed up 4 games in the same time span Kimbrel has been pitching(29 appearances). No I am not trying to say Hader has been just as bad or anything...just that Kimbrel hasn't really been costing the Cubs that much despite shaky stats.

 

I would actually argue Kimbrel has been a good asset to the Cubs so far in his time there. Long term he is going to need to pitch better as the way he is pitching isn't going to be as kind in a large sample. In this smaller sample it hasn't costed them much.

 

I think the Cubs are a large part in some of his struggles. They were so desperate to have him he got almost no work prior to MLB appearances and that may have something to do with the injuries...that they also rushed him back from with maybe one garbage time appearance. Like the Cardinals game, "Oh you haven't pitched in a game for weeks? Here you go!" Literally asking for failure. I think the impatience and desperation really hurts these midseason pickup pitchers.

[KeithStone53151]

Any time you can pay an injury prone, 6 ERA pitcher, 10 million for half a season of work...you have to do it right?

[benji]

To be fair I dont think Maddon was right to throw him into high leverage like that straight off the IL.

 

 

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[tmwiese55]

Yea this as much about future years as it is this. My general take has been that he was going to regress, the red flags were there last year following him closely in fantasy. But, I still wouldn't predict him to be awful next year. But, being a good/solid reliever isn't worth 15 mil per year. 15 mil for his former dominant self, sure fine. But again, money isn't anything to the Cubs so I'm really not going to rip them. They really didn't have a choice with their pen situation.

[KeithStone53151]

Yea this as much about future years as it is this. My general take has been that he was going to regress, the red flags were there last year following him closely in fantasy. But, I still wouldn't predict him to be awful next year. But, being a good/solid reliever isn't worth 15 mil per year. 15 mil for his former dominant self, sure fine. But again, money isn't anything to the Cubs so I'm really not going to rip them. They really didn't have a choice with their pen situation.

 

It is seriously amazing how badly Theo destroyed what should have been a dynasty. We basically should have had a yearly NLCS of Dodgers vs Cubs for a significant stretch, over 8 years...it probably should have been that about 6 times. The Dodgers were there, but where were the Cubs? The Cubs should probably take notes from the Dodgers, and use more of their gobs of money on talent evaluation/development rather than past player performance.

[pacopete4]

It wouldn't shock me to see Theo bail to another franchise.

[tmwiese55]

Yea this as much about future years as it is this. My general take has been that he was going to regress, the red flags were there last year following him closely in fantasy. But, I still wouldn't predict him to be awful next year. But, being a good/solid reliever isn't worth 15 mil per year. 15 mil for his former dominant self, sure fine. But again, money isn't anything to the Cubs so I'm really not going to rip them. They really didn't have a choice with their pen situation.

 

It is seriously amazing how badly Theo destroyed what should have been a dynasty. We basically should have had a yearly NLCS of Dodgers vs Cubs for a significant stretch, over 8 years...it probably should have been that about 6 times. The Dodgers were there, but where were the Cubs? The Cubs should probably take notes from the Dodgers, and use more of their gobs of money on talent evaluation/development rather than past player performance.

 

Yea I think we went over that here a couple weeks back. But yea in their situation with a ruined farm, an attempt to help their biggest weakness in bullpen without giving prospects was totally logical. And the money doesn't matter to them. Get him healthy for next year and he should be fine. Maybe not his dominant 1 ERA old self but still good.

[pacopete4]

 

 

[sarcasm]You even have me BOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!![/sarcasm]

[TigerUppercut]

Yea this as much about future years as it is this. My general take has been that he was going to regress, the red flags were there last year following him closely in fantasy. But, I still wouldn't predict him to be awful next year. But, being a good/solid reliever isn't worth 15 mil per year. 15 mil for his former dominant self, sure fine. But again, money isn't anything to the Cubs so I'm really not going to rip them. They really didn't have a choice with their pen situation.

 

It is seriously amazing how badly Theo destroyed what should have been a dynasty. We basically should have had a yearly NLCS of Dodgers vs Cubs for a significant stretch, over 8 years...it probably should have been that about 6 times. The Dodgers were there, but where were the Cubs? The Cubs should probably take notes from the Dodgers, and use more of their gobs of money on talent evaluation/development rather than past player performance.

 

Yea I think we went over that here a couple weeks back. But yea in their situation with a ruined farm, an attempt to help their biggest weakness in bullpen without giving prospects was totally logical. And the money doesn't matter to them. Get him healthy for next year and he should be fine. Maybe not his dominant 1 ERA old self but still good.

 

It's really amazing. For all the crap Jim Hendry deservedly caught for his band aid and mortgaging the farm approach, the Cubs find themselves in nearly the same situation with Theo. Completely agree he'll likely have his eyes and ears open to an exit strategy.

[tmwiese55]

But, all they cared about was getting the 1 title and they got. They accomplished their goal so I'm not gonna rip them. But man if that extra inning game 7 went the other way, ouch.

[adambr2]

Not to pick on any one person, but it's almost like...the guys in charge know more than we do, and it isn't always about pinching pennies.

 

I mean to be fair you're also implying here that the guys in charge for the Cubs do NOT know what they're doing. I'm no fan of Theo, but sometimes you make a move and it doesn't work out. They just can afford it when these moves don't work out, we cannot.

[MrTPlush]

Funny to say the Cubs have "failed" or are "destroyed". They have arguably been just as successful as any other team in the last half decade. Not only that, but they might as well be just as promising as many other teams the next half decade. Comparing them to the Dodgers is also a tad strange as their payroll have not been that similar many years.

 

2019

Cubs #2

Dodgers #4

 

2018

Cubs #3

Dodgers #4

 

2017

Cubs #9

Dodgers #1 (#2 was $50mil behind)

 

2016

Cubs #5

Dodgers #1 (#2 almost $50mil behind)

 

2015

Cubs #11

Dodgers #1 (#2 almost $80mil behind)

 

Most years the Dodgers have been tens of millions more in payroll over the Cubs...most years well over any team in baseball period. I sure hope the Dodgers would find success more often.

 

Seems strange to critique a postseason mainstay for the last 4 years that has a World Series trophy...that still looks poised for more postseason action in the coming years. Yah, maybe they aren't a dynasty, but I think people just assume that was easy to do...especially on what was a sub $200mil payroll before this year. Reality is many players regressed or aged leading to them not being such a powerhouse. Have they made some poor moves? Sure, but at the same time most of the big time trades have yet to look bad for the MLB team. Maybe Torres, but he was traded for Aroldis Chapman...a big piece of the WS run.

 

Looking back...maybe that team wasn't destined for a dynasty? It isn't that easy to be a constant powerhouse on a somewhat realistic payroll and their pitching wasn't that crazy young. The farm wasn't that loaded and the FA market hasn't been too lucky for buyers in recent years.

[Thurston Fluff]

The payroll was only as low as it was few years ago was because most of their in house talent was in their prearby years. I disagree that money doesn't mean anything to them either. Some of those core players are going to get expensive soon and they don't have a very good farm system to keep the payroll down. I doubt the Cubs are going to want to pay a luxury tax every year unless it is a near guarantee they win the division year in and year out. If they have a couple years of luxury taxes and only a single postseason game they lost to show for it I doubt they are going to be all that interested in paying an even higher rate going forward forever.

[Brew crew 92]

Cubbies tanked for 3+ years, accumulated high draft picks(Bryant)spent trillions on international players, made a couple good trades(Rizzo Arrietta)signed a FA or two(Lester)hires Madden and viola > title. 3 years later 230+ payroll, bad farm, stale team.

 

Ricketts is done with Theo/Hoyer imo, he’ll hire the young smart Analytic GM, like the dodgers did with Friedman and the giants with farhan, they’ll sell a Bryant Baez Schwarber and re-tool in a year or two, spend 230 and win forever.

[Ennder]

Last year I said it looked like the Cubs window was closing in the next couple of years and that they had wasted away a dynasty and I mostly got called names for my bad take~. I think they would gladly do it all over again though, they won the world series and that was the goal. People talk about the Dodgers but for all of their sustained success they haven't been able to get those final few pieces to win it all.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

[sveumrules]

It's almost like all the smart contending teams that needed bullpen help didn't think the red flags justified the price tag.

 

Glad it was the Cubs who ended up being the most desperate.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

It's almost like all the smart contending teams that needed bullpen help didn't think the red flags justified the price tag.

 

Glad it was the Cubs who ended up being the most desperate.

 

Pretty funny to go back and read the first part of this thread, and the IGTs at the time when he was brought up every time the pen faltered, and take a look at who was really pushing for a Kimbrel signing, and how they ripped on Brewers management when it didn't happen.

 

Lets just say they were REALLY barking up the wrong tree.

[Brew crew 92]

It's almost like all the smart contending teams that needed bullpen help didn't think the red flags justified the price tag.

 

Glad it was the Cubs who ended up being the most desperate.

 

Pretty funny to go back and read the first part of this thread, and the IGTs at the time when he was brought up every time the pen faltered, and take a look at who was really pushing for a Kimbrel signing, and how they ripped on Brewers management when it didn't happen.

 

Lets just say they were REALLY barking up the wrong tree.

 

I was so wrong on that front. Talk about a bad signing, it would have kept us from possibly going to the playoffs this year. Maybe next year too.

[pacopete4]

I was so wrong on that front. Talk about a bad signing, it would have kept us from possibly going to the playoffs this year. Maybe next year too.

 

 

Love it! Good job!

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

It's almost like all the smart contending teams that needed bullpen help didn't think the red flags justified the price tag.

 

Glad it was the Cubs who ended up being the most desperate.

 

Pretty funny to go back and read the first part of this thread, and the IGTs at the time when he was brought up every time the pen faltered, and take a look at who was really pushing for a Kimbrel signing, and how they ripped on Brewers management when it didn't happen.

 

Lets just say they were REALLY barking up the wrong tree.

 

I was so wrong on that front. Talk about a bad signing, it would have kept us from possibly going to the playoffs this year. Maybe next year too.

 

You weren't the only one who was advocating signing him. I'm not going to mention any names, but there was one poster in particular who brought up Kimbrel in pretty much every IGT whenever anyone in the pen struggled, without fail. It got really old pretty quick.

 

In any case, we are all wrong at times. Owning it is tough, but commendable.

[clancyphile]

I was among those who wanted to see Kimbrel signed, especially after Knebel and Jeffress went down.

 

I'm glad it didn't happen.

[MrTPlush]

To be fair signing Kimbrel while still in Spring Training ******could***** have yielded way different results. The Cubs have truly handled him terribly.

[stalton]

Kimbrel is sporting an almost 26% HR/FB ratio. For a not small sample, that is insane. His K rate is slightly down but his walk rate and other advanced stats are pretty close to his averages. He has given up 14 XBH out of 21 hits including 9 homers. When he gets hit, he gets hit HARD.

[Pugger]

To be fair signing Kimbrel while still in Spring Training ******could***** have yielded way different results. The Cubs have truly handled him terribly.

 

IMO there was a reason why Boston let him walk and why he sat by the phone waiting for it to ring for all those weeks. The Cubs were stupid to sign him for that kind of coin for 3 years.