NBA Finals

[homer]

4 games in a row their D absolutely owned the Bucks. They had so much more poise in the 4th quarter in every tight game. They were better.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I can't say I want the Warriors to win but it sure feels a lot more like the Bucks blew a championship now. Not sure the battered Warriors could've beaten them if they closed out Game 3 with Toronto. Sure the Bucks will compete going forward, but it is what it is with this season. It should've been us.

 

Also can't help but feel like the Raptors are now an annual problem as long as they have Leonard, and that this might validate Durant and bring him back to GS.

 

I think saying the Raptors were clearly better than the Bucks is kind of a coping mechanism. The Bucks missed a ton of open shots they'd hit all year. Giannis was still putting up numbers despite this narrative that he didn't really show up. He didn't play his best, but he was still a huge factor like any great player. They did make him work, were smart with fouling him, and took Mids out of the series. Despite all that, the fact is the Bucks were very much in Games 5 and 6. If they made more threes the whole series this obvious disparity just wouldn't have been all that obvious.

[OnTheBlack]

I can't say I want the Warriors to win but it sure feels a lot more like the Bucks blew a championship now. Not sure the battered Warriors could've beaten them if they closed out Game 3 with Toronto. Sure the Bucks will compete going forward, but it is what it is with this season. It should've been us.

 

Also can't help but feel like the Raptors are now an annual problem as long as they have Leonard, and that this might validate Durant and bring him back to GS.

 

I think saying the Raptors were clearly better than the Bucks is kind of a coping mechanism. The Bucks missed a ton of open shots they'd hit all year. Giannis was still putting up numbers despite this narrative that he didn't really show up. He didn't play his best, but he was still a huge factor like any great player. They did make him work, were smart with fouling him, and took Mids out of the series. Despite all that, the fact is the Bucks were very much in Games 5 and 6. If they made more threes the whole series this obvious disparity just wouldn't have been all that obvious.

 

 

Agreed with every point made. It is easy to say the Bucks were the better team, but the fact remains they were in OT and the series was that close to being over. A bad call on Giannis(not a terrible call, but a bad call) and that allows the Raps to say in the series and then overcome some big Bucks leads the next few games.

 

But that the Raptors played great defense isn't a shock. They're a great team. But I do think the Bucks were better. VanVleet going 12 of 15 or whatever it was in his last 15 or so shots was the difference for them offensively and the Bucks tightening up and not hitting FT's hurt us.

 

And that we'll be back for years to come doesn't take the sting out of the fact that we should be there now. But that is also a coping mechanism like the one you pointed to.

 

What I do like about seeing Toronto win and the Bucks pushing them is it dispels this narrative that you have to have a "super-team" in order to win. You don't. You need a superstar and the right supporting cast. We had that. Hopefully we find a way to take that next step next year.

[OnTheBlack]

Actually, I disagreed with one thing. I don't think Kawhi is staying in Toronto either way. I say that with as much knowledge of his thinking on the matter that you have(unless you actually have some insight).

 

And after they cheered that KD injury like they were cheering a game winning shot, I can't WAIT for that city to lose Kawhi and be relegated to a mediocre franchise for the next 5-6 years.

 

So much for Canada being so classy. It took the American athletes to try and shut them the hell up(which they finally did).

 

I would SO love to see Golden State find a way to run off 3 straight here to shut those clowns up.

[nodakfan17]

I actually find myself pulling for the Warriors too because I’m sick of hearing how much Canadians love basketball. Canadians probably felt the same way last year when they had to see all the ‘die hard’ Golden Knights fans at the Stanley Cup Final.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't know that Kawhi is staying or going and I wasn't predicting either, I was just saying that if he does stay they have a problem in Toronto or likely any EC team he goes to, if he does. Everyone knew he was very good but this cements him as one of the elite, capable of carrying a team to a championship even if they don't close this out.

 

I'm full on camp Golden State after seeing the douche wave goodbye to KD. I don't get into "classy fans" because it's just a silly conversation, but for whatever reason I want Toronto to lose.

[nodakfan17]

I was really sour on Kawhi Leonard after he forced his way out of San Antonio following the phantom quad injury that sidelined him for all but 9 games last year. However, after watching Kevin Durant will himself back from injury only to set himself back a full year, I find myself a little more sympathetic to Leonard’s situation. Regardless of the Finals outcome, he’s established himself as an alpha in my mind.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I never really bought the Leonard milking an injury thing. It smelled like a reach to me and just another instance where fans default to siding with the team. If he could play without risk to his health he'd have been out there with his guys. His Uncle whatever probably knew there was a real chance that if he did get hurt it would be a big time setback financially. Sure looks like he was looking for Kawhi (and himself, let's be honest), but I never really held that episode against him.

[coolhandluke121]

I didn't hold it against him either. Gotta remember what happened to Grant Hill his last year in Detroit, with team doctors giving really bad advice about whether he should play on that injured ankle. It's b.s. that the Spurs said he should play and 10x worse the way so many people, even in the organization, questioned him on it. I wouldn't have stayed either.

 

I also have this pet theory that they approached him about taking less than the max in an extension. They had a culture where guys took less and may have felt like they were expected to because Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili did. But that's just speculation. I feel like they may have devalued how much of a star he really was because the team was so egalitarian and team-oriented. It's okay to want people to be unselfish, but you don't ask a superstar to make unreasonable sacrifices.

[tmwiese55]

Pretty much agree. Just adding that I think some of that is the amount of trust the Spurs org has built up so people outside rightfully give them the benefit of the doubt in something like that. Remember they were the founders of preventive rest and the idea that being healthy for the playoffs was most important, so kind of last group you'd expect to rush a guy. But yea I generally agree that after the docs rushed him back earlier in the year that any trust he had in those docs was out the window, and rightfully so as well.

 

Could be another what if moment in NBA history. If SAS doesn't rush him back, say he comes back in March instead and just goes on like normal. Resigns with SAS last summer, etc. Who knows how the whole league shakes out. Bucks are probably hoisting a title right now if so. But also the subsequent things from here with where he goes which affects where others go, does KD get hurt last night, etc. Also, playoff seeding would be different with Kawhi on SAS. Maybe KD doesn't get hurt at all, thus we don't get that title, who knows.

[nodakfan17]

Pretty much agree. Just adding that I think some of that is the amount of trust the Spurs org has built up so people outside rightfully give them the benefit of the doubt in something like that. Remember they were the founders of preventive rest and the idea that being healthy for the playoffs was most important, so kind of last group you'd expect to rush a guy.

That’s exactly where I was coming from. If Pop thinks he can play, then who am I to doubt the ultimate players’ coach? I’m not sure how much Pop was involved in that decision (if at all), but the SAS organization has built up a lot of goodwill. I believed them over Uncle Dennis.

[HiAndTight]

I was really sour on Kawhi Leonard after he forced his way out of San Antonio following the phantom quad injury that sidelined him for all but 9 games last year. However, after watching Kevin Durant will himself back from injury only to set himself back a full year, I find myself a little more sympathetic to Leonard’s situation. Regardless of the Finals outcome, he’s established himself as an alpha in my mind.

 

 

I'm still sour on Kawhi after that. His situation and KD's are so different. Kawhi had some mysterious injury and the team cleared him in January, a notoriously conservative team.

 

When KD got hurt, I don't think anyone believed it was a calf injury. I know I didn't and said as much on here and that was hardly a hot take. I hoped it was because the NBA is just better with players like KD in it. I'll take the Spurs side of the story on this one. Though I get where you're coming from. It's almost never a good idea to try to guess how badly injured a player is or when he should come back from what you've seen. Two guys have the exact same injuries and you never know how they're going to bounce back. People's bodies are so different. I tore an ACL, was supposed to be out 6 months, rehabbed it and strengthened the muscles around it and I was back in 6 weeks...and I wasn't toughing it out, I just didn't have any pain. My buddy had the same injury, opted for surgery, came back 100 pct and ended up tearing it three more times.

 

I am glad we've got Bud in Milwaukee. One of the reasons he's so well liked by the players is because he's very cautious with them(A Pop disciple). There were reports he likes to take when the trainer and player says he's ready to come back and add about 2 weeks to that to make sure. He did that with Snell last year and he did that with Brogdon(maybe not exactly two weeks, but you get the idea).

 

It really is a shame to see KD down and likely out all next year. I wonder though, if you're the Knicks, do you still go ahead and give him a max deal? You can sign him, add a guy like RJ Barrett, a player who I think will be better in the NBA than college, have another bad year, work the cap so that you still have room to add another max contract and then you have a top pick, a potential ROY candidate and maybe a guy like AD coming into NY next year.

 

Given their history, if I'm them, I'd still be willing to pay KD and put him on the shelf for a year.

[HiAndTight]

Pretty much agree. Just adding that I think some of that is the amount of trust the Spurs org has built up so people outside rightfully give them the benefit of the doubt in something like that. Remember they were the founders of preventive rest and the idea that being healthy for the playoffs was most important, so kind of last group you'd expect to rush a guy.

That’s exactly where I was coming from. If Pop thinks he can play, then who am I to doubt the ultimate players’ coach? I’m not sure how much Pop was involved in that decision (if at all), but the SAS organization has built up a lot of goodwill. I believed them over Uncle Dennis.

 

 

I thought Pop sat down and talked with him.

 

I doubt that the genesis of this was them going to Kawhi and asking him to take less than the Max. Everyone knew Kawhi was a superstar.

 

Now on his own without 3/4 HOF'ers playing with him, we see he's probably the best player in the world right now, but even then, he was at least a top 5 player. Certainly possible though.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't know, the fact that Leonard and Pop still have a very strong relationship leads me to believe we'll never actually know what happened there. But I do believe it's a lot more complicated than Leonard supposedly milking an injury. I just don't see him doing that.

[FVBrewerFan]

Congrats to Toronto, good for them and their great fans. (Except, you know, one of them.) Makes you wonder what would have happened if the Bucks played with that poise and confidence.

[MrTPlush]

I don't want to say Toronto didn't earn it, but they ended up playing a beat up GSW team that lacked Kevin Durant and then in Game 6 even Klay Thompson went down. The later was having one heck of a Game 6 performance before his injury. I guess personally it is better watching teams at full health play each other in the postseason. Because really this would have been another GSW championship had injuries not destroyed them.

 

Great run by Toronto to win it all though and certainly not easy.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Thompson and Durant tear ACLs. Oof.

[HiAndTight]

Thompson and Durant tear ACLs. Oof.

 

 

Actually worse for Durant with the torn Achilles.

 

The ACL you come back from now almost 100 pct if not 100 pct if you put in the time.

 

The Achillies you never come back 100 pct from(or almost never). And Durant will be 32 now the next time he plays(most likely).

 

 

The question now is should teams still be offering the max for KD? If I'm a team like the Knicks, I'm definitely offering. I'm tanking this year again then, then next year maybe try and bring Davis in as a FA.

 

FWIW I think KD's going to come back and be a great scorer. I mean, he's a 7 footer who can get his shot off against anyone. He'll be able to play in this league for a long time if he wants. But the rest of his game is going to struggle.

 

Would a great story line would it be though if both Klay and KD rehabbed from their injuries and then came back next year with about a month to go in the season with Steph dragging the Dubs into the playoffs and then they get those two back and go on a run?

[nodakfan17]

Thompson and Durant tear ACLs. Oof.

 

 

Actually worse for Durant with the torn Achilles.

 

The ACL you come back from now almost 100 pct if not 100 pct if you put in the time.

 

The Achillies you never come back 100 pct from(or almost never).

True story. My father tore his achilles at age 40 and never played rec league volleyball again. Lawn sports only from that day on (sarcasm ... but still true).

[OnTheBlack]

Thompson and Durant tear ACLs. Oof.

 

 

Actually worse for Durant with the torn Achilles.

 

The ACL you come back from now almost 100 pct if not 100 pct if you put in the time.

 

The Achillies you never come back 100 pct from(or almost never).

True story. My father tore his achilles at age 40 and never played rec league volleyball again. Lawn sports only from that day on (sarcasm ... but still true).

 

 

Yeah, it's brutal. Just kinda tweaking an Achilles takes forever to heal. I've tweaked it...it's just brutal.

 

 

Still, I think KD comes back and is an elite player again. I don't know that he'll ever be the best player in the NBA again(as I believe he may have been this year) as he'll be 32 and Giannis will have another full year by the time he's likely back at 100 pct, but he could still be an elite offensive player and a capable defender.

[Jimbo]

I had a severe case of Achilles Tendinosis. I was told I may never be able to competitively run again. PT did little. The inflammation finally cleared after about nine months of avoiding impact activities. We're not even talking about a tear.

[HiAndTight]

I had a severe case of Achilles Tendinosis. I was told I may never be able to competitively run again. PT did little. The inflammation finally cleared after about nine months of avoiding impact activities. We're not even talking about a tear.

 

 

A torn Achilles is second only to neck/back injuries that you hate to hear about as an athlete. Even worse a BB player or a skill player in the NFL. Or just someone who loves to run.

 

I consider myself extremely lucky. I'll hit my 20'th surgery before too long, but I never hurt my neck, back or an Achilles and because of that, I can still lift, play/coach and do whatever I want.