2019-05-31: Brewers (Chacín) at Pirates (Archer) [Brewers lose, 9-4 -- Chacín issues three walks with the bases loaded; Hiura goes 3-for-4 with a HR and 3 RBIs]

[82brewcrew82]

 

Exactly. That dude gets it.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Or 880 OPS Hiura.

 

I honestly expected Hiura to be a Ben Gamel level hitter at 2b to start his major league career. He's blowing that out of the water. Team has scored 5.7 runs per game when he batted more than 2 times. Its sample size but Shaw's one of the crippling black holes of the first 50 games. They seem eager to get back to that.

 

C'mon man, you know they aren't just going to give up on Shaw. I totally get the excitement for Hiura. This was a very good first impression. But they have to get Shaw right, and if he's deemed healthy, they can't just leave him in AAA on a rehab assignment. I get the feeling that if he doesn't show something in pretty short order, he'll get optioned. This team needs to stand by it's guys, though ... especially one who has put up arguable All-Star numbers the last two seasons.

[TJseven7]

 

Exactly. That dude gets it.

 

A guy being a professional and saying the right thing doesn't make your point valid. He knows he got shafted on those pitches. He's being a professional in his response.

[Brew crew 92]

Or 880 OPS Hiura.

 

I honestly expected Hiura to be a Ben Gamel level hitter at 2b to start his major league career. He's blowing that out of the water. Team has scored 5.7 runs per game when he batted more than 2 times. Its sample size but Shaw's one of the crippling black holes of the first 50 games. They seem eager to get back to that.

 

Stearns has to see what Shaw can do these next 6-8 weeks before the deadline, to decide how to improve this offense, last year it was Arcia Pena Villar/sogard. This year it’s Shaw Aguilar/Thames. With a little Cain thrown in. Not gonna do anything with Cain but other 3?

[TJseven7]

Or 880 OPS Hiura.

 

I honestly expected Hiura to be a Ben Gamel level hitter at 2b to start his major league career. He's blowing that out of the water. Team has scored 5.7 runs per game when he batted more than 2 times. Its sample size but Shaw's one of the crippling black holes of the first 50 games. They seem eager to get back to that.

 

C'mon man, you know they aren't just going to give up on Shaw. I totally get the excitement for Hiura. This was a very good first impression. But they have to get Shaw right, and if he's deemed healthy, they can't just leave him in AAA on a rehab assignment. I get the feeling that if he doesn't show something in pretty short order, he'll get optioned. This team needs to stand by it's guys, though ... especially one who has put up arguable All-Star numbers the last two seasons.

 

I'm not giving up on Shaw. He has options. He can get right and earn his promotion like any other player. They gave him 43 games to get going right. He hasn't shown anything has changed in AAA. It's pointless to promote him back to the active roster now. Hiura has earned it. Shaw will hopefully earn it again some day.

[82brewcrew82]

 

Exactly. That dude gets it.

 

A guy being a professional and saying the right thing doesn't make your point valid. He knows he got shafted on those pitches. He's being a professional in his response.

Yeah, it actually does.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Or 880 OPS Hiura.

 

I honestly expected Hiura to be a Ben Gamel level hitter at 2b to start his major league career. He's blowing that out of the water. Team has scored 5.7 runs per game when he batted more than 2 times. Its sample size but Shaw's one of the crippling black holes of the first 50 games. They seem eager to get back to that.

 

C'mon man, you know they aren't just going to give up on Shaw. I totally get the excitement for Hiura. This was a very good first impression. But they have to get Shaw right, and if he's deemed healthy, they can't just leave him in AAA on a rehab assignment. I get the feeling that if he doesn't show something in pretty short order, he'll get optioned. This team needs to stand by it's guys, though ... especially one who has put up arguable All-Star numbers the last two seasons.

 

I'm not giving up on Shaw. He has options. He can get right and earn his promotion like any other player. They gave him 43 games to get going right. He hasn't shown anything has changed in AAA. It's pointless to promote him back to the active roster now. Hiura has earned it. Shaw will hopefully earn it again some day.

 

It's not a promotion, though. It's the end of a rehab assignment. That may seem like semantics, but I'm sure that's how it was presented to Shaw. As far as earning it ... Shaw has two years of "earning it". Yeah, he's been crap this year, and I'm sure he'll have a short leash. But a bad 43 games isn't going to be more of a determining factor than two years of solid play.

[TJseven7]

Or 880 OPS Hiura.

 

I honestly expected Hiura to be a Ben Gamel level hitter at 2b to start his major league career. He's blowing that out of the water. Team has scored 5.7 runs per game when he batted more than 2 times. Its sample size but Shaw's one of the crippling black holes of the first 50 games. They seem eager to get back to that.

 

Stearns has to see what Shaw can do these next 6-8 weeks before the deadline, to decide how to improve this offense, last year it was Arcia Pena Villar/sogard. This year it’s Shaw Aguilar/Thames. With a little Cain thrown in. Not gonna do anything with Cain but other 3?

 

Thames is still a positive impact player. Cain's good despite most of his value coming on defense. Shaw and Aguilar have been the problems. Hiura has erased 1 and we are going to go back to it without any reason but loyalty? That's a good way to lose more games and hurt your season.

[bigredrobbo]

It seems like the window from "we should totally extend this guy another couple years" to "we're in win-now mode - ship the bum out" gets smaller every season.

[TJseven7]

"It's not a promotion, though. It's the end of a rehab assignment. That may seem like semantics, but I'm sure that's how it was presented to Shaw. As far as earning it ... Shaw has two years of "earning it". Yeah, he's been crap this year, and I'm sure he'll have a short leash. But a bad 43 games isn't going to be more of a determining factor than two years of solid play."

 

But to respect a guy who isn't performing at any level you jerk around your top prospect who has been instant impact? You are going to hurt someones feelings. Demote the guy who isn't hitting on any level until he proves he can hit again this year.

 

With that Shaw HRs in SA.

[JosephC]

 

I'm not giving up on Shaw. He has options. He can get right and earn his promotion like any other player. They gave him 43 games to get going right. He hasn't shown anything has changed in AAA. It's pointless to promote him back to the active roster now. Hiura has earned it. Shaw will hopefully earn it again some day.

 

Exactly. I'm not a proponent of sending Hiura down but I know enough about baseball economics and how Stearns handles a 40-man roster to think the possibility is very real and fairly likely to happen. But all of that should be completely irrelevant until Shaw EARNS his way back. A .515 OPS with ZERO extra base hits followed by a two singles/one walk night is not earning his way back to the 25-man roster. I'm pretty disappointed to hear that the Brewers have already made a decision about this and Shaw is back on the 25-man roster early next week.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

"It's not a promotion, though. It's the end of a rehab assignment. That may seem like semantics, but I'm sure that's how it was presented to Shaw. As far as earning it ... Shaw has two years of "earning it". Yeah, he's been crap this year, and I'm sure he'll have a short leash. But a bad 43 games isn't going to be more of a determining factor than two years of solid play."

 

But to respect a guy who isn't performing at any level you jerk around your top prospect who has been instant impact? You are going to hurt someones feelings. Demote the guy who isn't hitting on any level until he proves he can hit again this year.

 

These guys are pros. I doubt the Brewers are worried about hurt feelings. I'd venture to guess that Hiura knew the situation as soon as he came up.

 

But who knows? It isn't a guarantee that Hiura will be the one to go down. This team has made moves that have surprised all of us in the past.

[TJseven7]

I also don't understand how a guys had a wrist issue he couldn't shake all season. They shut him down for 8 days and magically he's fine?

 

If its not feelings and loyalty then you make him earn his way back because everyone in the world knows the guys capable of more and isn't there yet.

 

He's now hitting .276 .779 in SA. The last few games have been better. That's a great sign. He's still not outproducing Orf, Saladino, Spangenberg at the AAA level. Call me crazy for wanting to see that mashers OPS hit 1000 in SA like Hiura had before I go, oh he's ready to come back.

[Brew crew 92]

"It's not a promotion, though. It's the end of a rehab assignment. That may seem like semantics, but I'm sure that's how it was presented to Shaw. As far as earning it ... Shaw has two years of "earning it". Yeah, he's been crap this year, and I'm sure he'll have a short leash. But a bad 43 games isn't going to be more of a determining factor than two years of solid play."

 

But to respect a guy who isn't performing at any level you jerk around your top prospect who has been instant impact? You are going to hurt someones feelings. Demote the guy who isn't hitting on any level until he proves he can hit again this year.

 

With that Shaw HRs in SA.

 

Funny.

I believe Shaw was told when he went down that he’d be back after a short rehab, and Hiura told that when Shaw done with rehab he’d go back down. So there will be no hard feelings.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

I'm not giving up on Shaw. He has options. He can get right and earn his promotion like any other player. They gave him 43 games to get going right. He hasn't shown anything has changed in AAA. It's pointless to promote him back to the active roster now. Hiura has earned it. Shaw will hopefully earn it again some day.

 

Exactly. I'm not a proponent of sending Hiura down but I know enough about baseball economics and how Stearns handles a 40-man roster to think the possibility is very real and fairly likely to happen. But all of that should be completely irrelevant until Shaw EARNS his way back. A .515 OPS with ZERO extra base hits followed by a two singles/one walk night is not earning his way back to the 25-man roster. I'm pretty disappointed to hear that the Brewers have already made a decision about this and Shaw is back on the 25-man roster early next week.

 

Shaw was never demoted. He was injured, went on the IL for 10 days, then went to AAA on a rehab assignment. If he's deemed healthy, the Brewers can't just leave him there. They'd need to activate him, then option him.

 

Three hits and a walk tonight, including a HR, certainly helps the optics of the situation.

[TJseven7]

"It's not a promotion, though. It's the end of a rehab assignment. That may seem like semantics, but I'm sure that's how it was presented to Shaw. As far as earning it ... Shaw has two years of "earning it". Yeah, he's been crap this year, and I'm sure he'll have a short leash. But a bad 43 games isn't going to be more of a determining factor than two years of solid play."

 

But to respect a guy who isn't performing at any level you jerk around your top prospect who has been instant impact? You are going to hurt someones feelings. Demote the guy who isn't hitting on any level until he proves he can hit again this year.

 

With that Shaw HRs in SA.

 

Funny.

I believe Shaw was told when he went down that he’d be back after a short rehab, and Hiura told that when Shaw done with rehab he’d go back down. So there will be no hard feelings.

 

That's entirely likely. It's also foolish on MKEs part. He needs to get right. Then bring him back. Again, he has options.

[TJseven7]

 

I'm not giving up on Shaw. He has options. He can get right and earn his promotion like any other player. They gave him 43 games to get going right. He hasn't shown anything has changed in AAA. It's pointless to promote him back to the active roster now. Hiura has earned it. Shaw will hopefully earn it again some day.

 

Exactly. I'm not a proponent of sending Hiura down but I know enough about baseball economics and how Stearns handles a 40-man roster to think the possibility is very real and fairly likely to happen. But all of that should be completely irrelevant until Shaw EARNS his way back. A .515 OPS with ZERO extra base hits followed by a two singles/one walk night is not earning his way back to the 25-man roster. I'm pretty disappointed to hear that the Brewers have already made a decision about this and Shaw is back on the 25-man roster early next week.

 

Shaw was never demoted. He was injured, went on the IL for 10 days, then went to AAA on a rehab assignment. If he's deemed healthy, the Brewers can't just leave him there. They'd need to activate him, then option him.

 

Three hits and a walk tonight, including a HR, certainly helps the optics of the situation.

 

And Hiura went 3 hits and a HR vs pitching in the majors.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

"It's not a promotion, though. It's the end of a rehab assignment. That may seem like semantics, but I'm sure that's how it was presented to Shaw. As far as earning it ... Shaw has two years of "earning it". Yeah, he's been crap this year, and I'm sure he'll have a short leash. But a bad 43 games isn't going to be more of a determining factor than two years of solid play."

 

But to respect a guy who isn't performing at any level you jerk around your top prospect who has been instant impact? You are going to hurt someones feelings. Demote the guy who isn't hitting on any level until he proves he can hit again this year.

 

With that Shaw HRs in SA.

 

Funny.

I believe Shaw was told when he went down that he’d be back after a short rehab, and Hiura told that when Shaw done with rehab he’d go back down. So there will be no hard feelings.

 

That's entirely likely. It's also foolish on MKEs part. He needs to get right. Then bring him back. Again, he has options.

 

And if he comes back and continues to scuffle, I'd bet one of those options gets used. I would think the leash is going to be pretty dang short, too. The Brewers know they have a guy in Hiura who can hit at this level. If he goes down, he'll be back, probably pretty quickly. At the end of the day, it's never foolish to stand behind your players.

[TJseven7]

You are standing behind the guy who isn't producing and not the one who is producing. That's not foolish?

And short leash. 1/4th of a season isn't short. How many more games do you want to risk a black hole in the lineup in the place of an 800 ops guy before its time?

 

There's an easy way to handle this.

Send Burnes down. He needs to figure out how to start.

Bring Shaw up after rehab as the rules dictate.

Option Shaw immediately, say he's looking good and we'll see you in MKE soon. Wait until he's killing AAA pitching.

Call up a filler pen arm.

 

If I had my exact way, demote the filler pen arm for Wilkerson when Chacin goes to the pen (next start).

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

No ... you tell Shaw to forget April and May. His season starts when he pulls on that uniform on Monday. You give him the chance to prove that he is the player we've seen the last two years. He's earned that. If you don't see improvement in a week or two ... plane ride to San Antonio for an extended visit.

 

I like Hiura. I don't want to see him go down. But if that's the move they end up making, so be it. This team's front office knows what its doing. They don't make a lot of mistakes. If they believe Shaw will turn it around, so do I.

 

Watch, they'll probably option a reliever and go with a 12-man staff, allowing Hiura and Shaw to both be up, and making this argument moot.

[TJseven7]

We both like the players we have. Hiura, Shaw. I like them both, I'm hopeful for them both. I don't know what other sport you bench a guy playing well for a vet who has sucked. For 1/4th the season no less.

 

If we keep both up, who plays? Shaw does not snap out of anything playing off and on. That's exactly what killed him the 2nd half with Boston and that cold spell was a big reason why we were able to get him. Hiura being up and sitting is no different than him being down. Honestly, if he needs to improve anything it's slowing down in the field which again won't happen not playing.

 

This is set up nicely for next year. Shaw has to bounce back at some point. Hiura proved he can hang. Losing Moose or Thames has the talent in place to not skip a beat. Right now the teams overloaded on the LH side of the platoon.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

OK ... lets play hypotheticals then. What do you do if the Brewers had decided to extend Shaw's rehab assignment, or if they do option him, and he proceeds to hit .350 with power for the next two weeks in AAA? All the while Hiura continues his consistent play at the ML level. Isn't that unfair to Shaw to leave him down? Unfair to Hiura to replace him?

 

I mean ... who knows what Travis Shaw has shown the Brewers behind closed doors to prove to them that he's ready to come up and produce? I do know that they aren't bringing him up with the expectation that he continue to hit .160. Will he come up and hit? Who knows. I can guarantee you that those are the Brewers' expectations, though.

[TJseven7]

Trade Thames for whatever we can get in 2 weeks. Start talking extension with Moose. Thames has been necessary to our current roster but he becomes overpaid and redundant if Shaw Hiura are going well and Moose for 10-12 mil is a better price than Thames at 7-8 mil.

 

If Shaw's blistering AAA, I comfortably expect that he found his stroke again.

If Hiura keeps this up, I don't bench him.

 

Shaw Moose Hiura take all ABs at 2nd 3rd and Shaw takes most of 1b. Sorry Aguilar. A LHB should dominate the platoon anyway.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Trade Thames for whatever we can get in 2 weeks. Start talking extension with Moose. Thames has been necessary to our current roster but he becomes overpaid and redundant if Shaw Hiura are going well and Moose for 10-12 mil is a better price than Thames at 7-8 mil.

 

If Shaw's blistering AAA, I comfortably expect that he found his stroke again.

If Hiura keeps this up, I don't bench him.

 

Shaw Moose Hiura take all ABs at 2nd 3rd and Shaw takes most of 1b. Sorry Aguilar. A LHB should dominate the platoon anyway.

 

That scenario may very well play out. I could easily see that happening as well.

[TJseven7]

I've been very stong in my defense of Thames through this Shaw slump because of the Shaw slump. At this time you can't move on from Thames. Once Shaw and Hiura have proven they are the 800 OPS guys they can be, Thames becomes almost worthless to this roster. Shaw is the best defensive 1b we have.

 

Thames has been great for this franchise but once Shaw is Shaw again, Thames price tag gets in the way of a moose extension more than his play helps the team. He's given the team some solid value but at that point getting a bag of balls for him would be a good financial trade. I'd love a 2 young MiLB flier trade for him as I don't think he nets a reliever of merit.

 

This is what I want to see first though...

and he proceeds to hit 1000 OPS for the next two weeks in AAA