Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)

[patrickgpe]

i wouldn't worry about filling out a roster. They get 2 two-way contract spots, i wouldn't be suprised if they buy a 2nd round pick tonight, plus there are plenty of guys at the end of their careers who would sign with the bucks in hope of getting a ring for cheap.

[monkeyman343434]

I'm worried in the sense that if they don't/can't (again, I'm not very well versed in the exemptions, salary cap, etc) sign Lopez or Mirocic, who plays the 5 next year? The biggest guys on the roster at that point would be Giannis, Ersan, and Wilson? Would need to add some how for interior defense and rebounding help.

 

CLH did make me feel a bit better in his response about being able to give Lopez about $9M with the MLE, and hoping he would take that deal, as I have no idea if or how the Bucks can make him a multi-year offer. Maybe that's something they can work on after the nail out a one year deal.

 

I think we mostly know what we have in Bledsoe, Brogdon, Middleton, Giannis, and Ersan.

 

Hopefully we can get the good and improved versions of Donte, Pat C, Brown, and Wilson.

[HiAndTight]

They will waive/extend Leuer creating roughly $6mm in cap space next season. Another very astute move by Horst.

 

Not a particular fan myself. I initially thought he could be protection if we lost Lopez and Mirotic. A stretch 4/5 who can help Giannis. That was based on my memory of him as a Badger. He has not been a good 3 point shooter in the NBA.

 

I saw the debate about draft picks vs cap room....I'm with Patick on this and OTB said he'd be in favor of it if we could get someone of value for Snell and a 1st. Instead, we got just...a guy. Maybe if we extend him, he rediscovers his 3 point shot that he had in college and to be fair, he only attempted more than 1 per game three times in his career and he shot 47 pct, 38 pct and then 29 pct roughly and he's a good rebounder. He's also played on teams that don't exactly use their bigs in that type of role in Memphis and then in Detroit.

 

 

Snell though...he's underrated. He's a guy who can defend the guards and forwards, he's long and he's a 40 pct 3 point shooter during his time in Milwaukee. I feel like if you're going to make this deal, you should be getting back someone better than John Leuer and you should at least get a 2nd rounder coming back.

 

But I'm sure I'll be in the minority on this one.

 

Pretty clear sign that you have an agreement in place with at least Middleton though. I can't see moving Snell, the guy who would be best suited to take over for Middleton(though obviously not as good) to dump salary if you don't have a deal in place with Midds.

 

Yes your value on Snell is drastically off from the league. He was for sure one that you had to attach something in order to dump his salary, not one to get anything back. Granted, he's probably gotten too bashed here as he is a competent NBA rotation player and at this point we all view him so badly that we think he's unplayable (you know, ignoring that he just did play a bunch for a 60 win team). But at 11ish per year it's way out of line and why you had to attach an asset to move him.

 

I didn't place a "value" on him. I just stated facts. He's a 40 pct 3 point shooter and he's a good to elite defender. A 3 and D type player.

 

But this is the same league in which we just traded two inferior players making similar money and a future 1st round draft pick and got back almost a fully non-guaranteed contract and they threw in a player who ended up being a nice player for us in the post-season. Timing is the key thing here. You're not likely to have nearly as many teams interested as they're drooling over the upcoming Free Agent class and the Bucks can't move 1st round picks after tonight.

 

 

This trade will work out a lot better if the Bucks just stretch out Leuer's deal, use actual cap space(I have it at ~19 million if they renounce Mirotic) and sign Lopez or someone else.

 

There are a lot of moving parts here though. Middleton and Brogdon have to agree to deals and both agree to wait to sign them. Lopez has to be willing to stay for maybe...3/24? And he had to be willing to sign quickly. And whatever PG you want to sign has to sign rather quickly. Hill has already said he doesn't care about money, he cares about winning. I believe the later, not the prior, so lets say 2 ~19 for Hill with the MLE. Beverly is going to meet with 5 teams, most of whom are going to wait to sign him with the MLE or at least wait and see if they can sign bigger FA's first. I'd love the attitude he'd bring to our team. Others like Rondo or Rubio would likely be able to be signed later on.

 

You then have your whole team back and as long as you can keep Brogdon at ~13-ish, you might be able to make it without going too far into the tax...something you might be able to remedy during the season anyway as you know they'll be in the tax in future years.

[FVBrewerFan]

I'm worried in the sense that if they don't/can't (again, I'm not very well versed in the exemptions, salary cap, etc) sign Lopez or Mirocic, who plays the 5 next year? The biggest guys on the roster at that point would be Giannis, Ersan, and Wilson? Would need to add some how for interior defense and rebounding help.

 

CLH did make me feel a bit better in his response about being able to give Lopez about $9M with the MLE, and hoping he would take that deal, as I have no idea if or how the Bucks can make him a multi-year offer. Maybe that's something they can work on after the nail out a one year deal.

 

I think we mostly know what we have in Bledsoe, Brogdon, Middleton, Giannis, and Ersan.

 

Hopefully we can get the good and improved versions of Donte, Pat C, Brown, and Wilson.

 

They are reportedly shopping Ersan as well for cap relief. I share your concern about the big men, especially if they do move Ersan. Becomes critical if they lose Lopez too. I'm hoping since they're trying to move Ersan they're pretty confident they can bring Lopez back. All that said, chances are very very slim to none any big man at 30 would be in the rotation.

[HiAndTight]

I'm worried in the sense that if they don't/can't (again, I'm not very well versed in the exemptions, salary cap, etc) sign Lopez or Mirocic, who plays the 5 next year? The biggest guys on the roster at that point would be Giannis, Ersan, and Wilson? Would need to add some how for interior defense and rebounding help.

 

CLH did make me feel a bit better in his response about being able to give Lopez about $9M with the MLE, and hoping he would take that deal, as I have no idea if or how the Bucks can make him a multi-year offer. Maybe that's something they can work on after the nail out a one year deal.

 

I think we mostly know what we have in Bledsoe, Brogdon, Middleton, Giannis, and Ersan.

 

Hopefully we can get the good and improved versions of Donte, Pat C, Brown, and Wilson.

 

 

The Bucks can actually create salary cap room...for a short period of time. So they could sign Lopez and then move onto someone like a Frank Kaminsky(who wouldn't really solve you issue with a legit big who can bang around and rebound). Maybe the quickly snatch up someone like Dewayne Dedmon if they don't have a good feeling about Lopez. I don't know, but I trust they have a plan and have to have a pretty good idea of what it'd take to sign Lopez given how much talk they've given to making re-signing him a priority.

[HiAndTight]

I'm worried in the sense that if they don't/can't (again, I'm not very well versed in the exemptions, salary cap, etc) sign Lopez or Mirocic, who plays the 5 next year? The biggest guys on the roster at that point would be Giannis, Ersan, and Wilson? Would need to add some how for interior defense and rebounding help.

 

CLH did make me feel a bit better in his response about being able to give Lopez about $9M with the MLE, and hoping he would take that deal, as I have no idea if or how the Bucks can make him a multi-year offer. Maybe that's something they can work on after the nail out a one year deal.

 

I think we mostly know what we have in Bledsoe, Brogdon, Middleton, Giannis, and Ersan.

 

Hopefully we can get the good and improved versions of Donte, Pat C, Brown, and Wilson.

 

They are reportedly shopping Ersan as well for cap relief. I share your concern about the big men, especially if they do move Ersan. Becomes critical if they lose Lopez too. I'm hoping since they're trying to move Ersan they're pretty confident they can bring Lopez back. All that said, chances are very very slim to none any big man at 30 would be in the rotation.

 

I don't think anyone thought a big man would be in the rotation this year. It's going to be more troublesome in 3-4 years when Giannis is right in the middle of his prime, we're well into the luxury tax, Middleton is on the downside of his prime and the Bucks have very little in the way of young, cheap players to fill in for the older players we'll be losing.

 

You measure that against keeping this team together right now, and obviously keeping this group together right now is more important as Giannis may not even want to stick around if they can't, but I see the concern of having so many future 1st and 2nd's gone.

[lcbj68c]

Tony Snell and 30th overall in 2019 Draft to Detroit for Leuer.

 

Gives Milwaukee $4M in relief this season.

 

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27013045/bucks-trading-snell-pistons-leuer

[LouisEly]

Brook Lopez has already made $120M in his NBA career. I foresee him going where he thinks he has the best chance to win a ring, and not who offers him the most money. While he made more 3's last year than ever (not that many more than 16-17), his overall scoring per game dropped from the year before and is still a lot less than two years ago.

[HiAndTight]

i wouldn't worry about filling out a roster. They get 2 two-way contract spots, i wouldn't be suprised if they buy a 2nd round pick tonight, plus there are plenty of guys at the end of their careers who would sign with the bucks in hope of getting a ring for cheap.

 

 

I think the Bucks have all of the 5.4 million or whatever the exact figure is that they can use to trade still available. So how much do picks cost? If the 40th pick is 3 million and the 50th pick is 2, depending on who's available, I'd certainly like to see them do that.

 

I think you posted a link about a D-2 guy who the Bucks worked out and drew D-Wade comps. He'd be a good guy to bet on with a mid 2nd rounder, that Jontay Porter who has had knee issues, but projects perfectly in this system would be a good pick. Both would have been reaches in the 1st, but solid chances in the 2nd.

 

You need to find a way to keep swinging for the fences.

 

Also, good teams find players in the D league. Seth Curry was there, Christian Wood, a guy who'd likely be on the Bucks came out of there(he'd likely be on the Bucks if Brogdon had not gotten injured, thereby creating a need to add depth to the backcourt and forcing them to waive someone).

 

Deal's done, the Bucks are one of the favorites to win the title next year and Horst traded for Mirotic and gave up a bag of used basketballs. So they've shown they can work within the confines of their situation already.

 

I feel better about their future if they renounce Mirotic and use the cap space they'll have on Lopez and a PG.

[HiAndTight]

How about an outside the box signing of Al Horford?

 

It'd be next to impossible and everything would have to fall just right, but they could give him the 4 year 90 million dollar deal he'd be looking for if they signed everyone in the right order.

 

You'd obviously been moving on from Lopez, but that's fine because Horford is a much better player than Lopez. He gives Embid absolute fits and he gave us fits. Everyone associated with the Celtics have said he has been their most important player, he made the Hawks look like a much better team.

 

You'd regret the backend of the deal, but man, if they could bring in Horford, get Hill with the MLE, sign Middleton and then Brogdon in that order after renouncing Mirotic, it's something that's POSSIBLE they could pull off.

 

I think that would make the Bucks the clear cut favorites to win the title next year by a pretty significant margin.

 

It's less than a 1 pct chance, but thoughts? Would it be too much in 4 years to be paying Horford lets say 30 million dollars, Midds 37, Giannis 47 and Brogdon 15? Not if they won a couple titles in the meantime, but that'd be a big if. But I can't think of a better fit next to Giannis than Horford.

 

Given the absurdly thin needle, they'd need to thread I can't see it, but Boston reporters immediately connected him with Milwaukee when it turned out that he was opting out.

[coolhandluke121]

How about an outside the box signing of Al Horford?

 

It'd be next to impossible and everything would have to fall just right, but they could give him the 4 year 90 million dollar deal he'd be looking for if they signed everyone in the right order.

 

You'd obviously been moving on from Lopez, but that's fine because Horford is a much better player than Lopez. He gives Embid absolute fits and he gave us fits. Everyone associated with the Celtics have said he has been their most important player, he made the Hawks look like a much better team.

 

You'd regret the backend of the deal, but man, if they could bring in Horford, get Hill with the MLE, sign Middleton and then Brogdon in that order after renouncing Mirotic, it's something that's POSSIBLE they could pull off.

 

I think that would make the Bucks the clear cut favorites to win the title next year by a pretty significant margin.

 

It's less than a 1 pct chance, but thoughts? Would it be too much in 4 years to be paying Horford lets say 30 million dollars, Midds 37, Giannis 47 and Brogdon 15? Not if they won a couple titles in the meantime, but that'd be a big if. But I can't think of a better fit next to Giannis than Horford.

 

Given the absurdly thin needle, they'd need to thread I can't see it, but Boston reporters immediately connected him with Milwaukee when it turned out that he was opting out.

 

I love Horford, but at his age and with the number of guys they would lose, I don't see any way it would be worth it.

 

I very much doubt you'd get Hill with the room MLE. In fact, I don't think he'd clear waivers. I'm pretty sure a bad team with cap space and no free agency aspirations would claim him just to flip him to a contender for assets later. He is an asset on an expiring contract at $18m. He was literally the best PG in the East playoffs this season.

 

Mirotic is another loss, and the room MLE is even lower than the tax-payer MLE so you'd have a hard time competing for the caliber of free agents that are looking for an MLE from a contender.

 

And you obviously have to stretch Leuer. You can justify it with the immediate benefits, but Hawes and Sanders were justified for the same reasons and look how much we need a few million more in payroll flexibility now. Stretching Leuer is a terrible option IMO with a Giannis super-max looming and raises for young guys.

 

So you're talking about losing Hill, Mirotic, and the full MLE for Horford. Again, I love him, but he wasn't even that much better than Hill in the playoffs this year.

 

And all that is counting on Brogdon not to sign an offer sheet during the moratorium, even though it's in his best interest to do so.

[HiAndTight]

How about an outside the box signing of Al Horford?

 

It'd be next to impossible and everything would have to fall just right, but they could give him the 4 year 90 million dollar deal he'd be looking for if they signed everyone in the right order.

 

You'd obviously been moving on from Lopez, but that's fine because Horford is a much better player than Lopez. He gives Embid absolute fits and he gave us fits. Everyone associated with the Celtics have said he has been their most important player, he made the Hawks look like a much better team.

 

You'd regret the backend of the deal, but man, if they could bring in Horford, get Hill with the MLE, sign Middleton and then Brogdon in that order after renouncing Mirotic, it's something that's POSSIBLE they could pull off.

 

I think that would make the Bucks the clear cut favorites to win the title next year by a pretty significant margin.

 

It's less than a 1 pct chance, but thoughts? Would it be too much in 4 years to be paying Horford lets say 30 million dollars, Midds 37, Giannis 47 and Brogdon 15? Not if they won a couple titles in the meantime, but that'd be a big if. But I can't think of a better fit next to Giannis than Horford.

 

Given the absurdly thin needle, they'd need to thread I can't see it, but Boston reporters immediately connected him with Milwaukee when it turned out that he was opting out.

 

I love Horford, but at his age and with the number of guys they would lose, I don't see any way it would be worth it.

 

I very much doubt you'd get Hill with the room MLE. In fact, I don't think he'd clear waivers. I'm pretty sure a bad team with cap space and no free agency aspirations would claim him just to flip him to a contender for assets later. He is an asset on an expiring contract at $18m. He was literally the best PG in the East playoffs this season.

 

Mirotic is another loss, and the room MLE is even lower than the tax-payer MLE so you'd have a hard time competing for the caliber of free agents that are looking for an MLE from a contender.

 

And you obviously have to stretch Leuer. You can justify it with the immediate benefits, but Hawes and Sanders were justified for the same reasons and look how much we need a few million more in payroll flexibility now. Stretching Leuer is a terrible option IMO with a Giannis super-max looming and raises for young guys.

 

So you're talking about losing Hill, Mirotic, and the full MLE for Horford. Again, I love him, but he wasn't even that much better than Hill in the playoffs this year.

 

And all that is counting on Brogdon not to sign an offer sheet during the moratorium, even though it's in his best interest to do so.

 

 

Hill's gone. We both realistically know that. The only debate is if you WANT them to sign him. But it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that the Bucks aren't going to bring him back. He's getting older and while he was very good in the playoffs this last year(best in the East isn't a high standard given Philly doesn't really have one, Kyrie had the worst stretch of his career, I'd argue Lowry was better as a whole given that he did it in the finals as well, but that's really the only other team) he was pretty bad in the playoffs the year before and he wasn't very good over the 47 games he played for the Bucks in the regular season. If the MLE isn't enough for him to sign then he's gone. So the only guy that'd they'd really lose that they wouldn't otherwise would be Mirotic and I don't think he's coming back. Esecially since we actually have a player in house who can replace his minutes in Wilson.

 

And I know that signing Horford is about as realistic as the Bucks keeping Hill, so it's also just an academic exercise, but they could work it out so that they would have the full MLE available if they stretch Leuer and renounce Mirotic's rights and then sign Horford and use that MLE BEFORE they finalize any deal with Middleton and Brogdon. You'd have to have both on board though, and you'd have to be able to come to an agreement with whoever you're using that MLE on before the signings happen. We'll see what Hill does, I don't think he earns more than the MLE this year. The playoffs factor in more in BB than other sports, but I don't think it factors in more than regular season production and Hill is coming off his worst and had his least effective season this past year than any year since his rookie year. Especially when he came to Milwaukee. He shot 28 pct from 3, he just wasn't as effective this past year as he'd been just about any other year in his career. So I don't think teams are going to be lining up for Hill despite the fact that he was VERY good for us in the playoffs.

 

Anywawy, there's a path to being able to sign Horford with cap space, use a full MLE and keep Midds and Brogdon, they'd just all have to be on the same page and the Bucks would have to be willing to pay big for an aging big man who's going to make a ton of money in year 4 at...what, 37, 38 years old? I think even if he was willing to take 3 years and 75 million or so that'd be too expensive for the Bucks given what they're committing, and I doubt he leaves Boston for less than 4/90 after turning down 31 this year.

 

But IF in some fantasy world they could work this out....you'd run it back next year with almost the same team, but a better big in Horford and a more experienced team...and hopefully an improved Giannis.

[HiAndTight]

I do like that Boston's really falling apart. Ainge just never pulled off that big deal for that other superstar. He could have gone after Paul George, but he wasn't willing to take the risk that OKC did. He didn't go after Kawhi, again, because they were only guaranteed one year. They've passed on a few other guys and now Kyrie is gone, Horford, one of the only real impact FA's to sign in Boston is opting out of 30 million in the late stages of his career to leave. Rozier I can't imagine coming back(though they could massage that relationship if Kyrie leaves).

 

I do think Gordon Heyward is going to bounce back. It was a whole lot to expect him to come back from that injury this quickly. Paul George had a similar injury and he's a freak, but now your best players are Brown, Tatum and Heyward. Those three can't play together on a good team.

 

So it looks like Ainge waited too long to use all his assets and has little to show for one of the great all-time heists in that Brooklyn trade.

 

I guess they should still end up with a great asset in that Memphis trade that will be unprotected in two years, but it's a long way off from where they were just a year ago coming off an ECF's appearance without their two best players.

[pacopete4]

How do the Bucks get better from a year ago?

[nate82]

How do the Bucks get better from a year ago?

 

I don't think they can at least not until the trade deadline.

[coolhandluke121]

How do the Bucks get better from a year ago?

 

Keep as many guys as possible and be ready for a consolidation trade if a star becomes available. You gotta have good players on matching contracts, a big expiring contract or two, and some young guys that a team trading away its star would want to take a chance on. Yet another reason to keep Hill and not waive/stretch Leuer's contract.

 

You can't guarantee there will be a Kawhi, Paul George, or Anthony Davis available in a trade, but it seems there's a guy or two like that (or at least close) almost every year lately.

[homer]

Bucks had the best record in the NBA so keeping the same team together, an improvement from Giannis, another year in the system, and watching Kawhi go to the Clippers could be enough.

[OnTheBlack]

Bucks had the best record in the NBA so keeping the same team together, an improvement from Giannis, another year in the system, and watching Kawhi go to the Clippers could be enough.

 

 

Exactly. They don't really have to add much talent. Giannis will probably get even better and it'll be year 2 in Bud's system with the same group.

 

DJ Wilson, DDV, Streling Brown, Pat C...these guys have all shown flashes. George Hill if they can find a way to bring him back at a reasonable price.

 

The most important thing will be Giannis taking another step with his shot and then we have to see if they can play better in a tight playoff series.

[OnTheBlack]

How do the Bucks get better from a year ago?

 

Keep as many guys as possible and be ready for a consolidation trade if a star becomes available. You gotta have good players on matching contracts, a big expiring contract or two, and some young guys that a team trading away its star would want to take a chance on. Yet another reason to keep Hill and not waive/stretch Leuer's contract.

 

You can't guarantee there will be a Kawhi, Paul George, or Anthony Davis available in a trade, but it seems there's a guy or two like that (or at least close) almost every year lately.

 

 

You also have to have a number of cheap young assets. The Bucks could match salaries with those guys, but they don't have much of anything that teams would want in terms of young players or draft picks.

 

The best you'd be able to do in the near future making a trade for a star player would be trading for a Chris Paul like player, an older player that a team is looking to move on from and even then I don't see who we'd have that they'd want. Hill's value in a trade was last year. That would have been when we could have turned around and traded him for a better player with a few years left on his deal.

 

I see no avenue for the Bucks to acquire a player a couple tiers below those players, much less a couple of top 5 players in the NBA.

[coolhandluke121]

How do the Bucks get better from a year ago?

 

Keep as many guys as possible and be ready for a consolidation trade if a star becomes available. You gotta have good players on matching contracts, a big expiring contract or two, and some young guys that a team trading away its star would want to take a chance on. Yet another reason to keep Hill and not waive/stretch Leuer's contract.

 

You can't guarantee there will be a Kawhi, Paul George, or Anthony Davis available in a trade, but it seems there's a guy or two like that (or at least close) almost every year lately.

 

 

You also have to have a number of cheap young assets. The Bucks could match salaries with those guys, but they don't have much of anything that teams would want in terms of young players or draft picks.

 

 

That's not true at all. When stars want out, they often go for trade packages of expiring contracts, solid veterans, picks, and/or non-blue-chip prospects. Look at the KG to Boston deal, Melo to Knicks deal, Kawhi to Raptors deal, George to OKC deal, or even the Kyrie to Boston deal. Some times a potentially good pick changed hands in those deals and others like them, but the Bucks have an asset at least worth that in Brogdon. They have young guys like Wilson, Brown, Pat C, and DDV, all of whom showed promise and contributed to a 60-win team. They have expiring contracts in Hill, Leuer, and Ersan. And they could have good veterans like Bledsoe, Khris, Brogdon, and Mirotic, all of whom have trade value, whether it be directly to a team looking to trade a star without rebuilding or to a 3rd team which would send more assets and/or cap relief their way.

 

For example, suppose Paul George or Damian Lillard wants out. With their contracts, most of the trade proposals would probably be comparable to a package the Bucks could put together with, say, Brogdon, Bledsoe or Khris, Pat C, Wilson, and an expiring contract.

[coolhandluke121]

I think I can revise their options with Brogdon. Some site said his offer sheet kicks in immediately, but I read that part of the CBA and it seems his cap hold is still in effect until they actually match.

 

That would make it slightly more realistic to create cap space and use it before matching an offer, but you'd still have to lose several good players to do so. Therefore the question of whether you're losing more than you gain is still in play; it's just the fact that you wouldn't have to worry about losing the cap space to a Brogdon offer sheet until 48 hours after the moratorium ends and free agency officially begins.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Coach Bud, NBA coach of the year. Congrats coach.

[DuWayne Steurer]

And Giannis takes home the big award. What an accomplishment.

[coolhandluke121]

Better than a 3:1 margin over Harden, just as I said it should be all along. There really wasn't much controversy at all IMO. People acted like I was disrespecting Harden, but he really didn't have much of a case against Giannis.

[tmwiese55]

Still think Tor should've won Executive of the Year though. Granted, this is voted after regular season but still. Look what he picked up for last season and how little he gave up. And past moves like Siakam and FVV paying off.