Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)

[nate82]

Kaminsky to the Suns on a 2-year deal at $10m. Would have loved Kaminsky on that deal for the Bucks.

 

https://arizonasports.com/story/1996411/frank-kaminsky-agrees-phoenix-suns-nba-free-agency/

 

 

Mey, with the two Lopez's, Ersan, Wilson(I keep accidentally typing Henson when I want to say DJ Wilson) and maybe/maybe not Leuer, I think the tank would have seen a lot of DNP's.

 

I would have liked him better than Robin Lopez though. That didn't make much sense to me.

 

 

 

I did just see something about the Bucks are working on something else. An optimist might think they're working on adding a nice 2 guard with the TPE and maybe using DDV or someone to throw in, but my guess is it's something like Pau Gasol will sign for the Vets Min on a non-guaranteed deal.

 

After this flurry, if we go into the season with this squad, I'd be fine. Especially since the POTENTIALLY turned Brogdon into a 12 million dollar trade exception, a 1st and 2 sends. Still would rather have Malcom, but there are a whole lot of players who could help us at that price.

 

 

Like maybe THIS YEAR would be a good year to trade a promising young player at the deadline for someone like JJ Reddick as opposed to the year they were just a contender to lose in the 1st round and gave up a 19 year old future all-star. I'd be pretty shocked if we added anyone else that really tipped the scales one way or the other at this point.

 

I would have replaced Ersan with Kaminsky if at all possible though that would have been rather tricky to do. I would still have gone out and got the other Lopez as I don't see Kaminsky as a true C more of a PF than a C. I wonder if the Bucks could possibly get someone like Trey Burke or trade for Avery Bradley. Maybe Ersan for Bradley but that would leave the Bucks overly guard heavy if they did that trade. I would still like to see another guard who can play the point as I am not confident in Hill staying healthy the whole year and I think Burke can play a bit of the point.

[pacopete4]

Glad Frank got paid. Needs to take a step forward with his game though.

[long ball]

I'm disappointed Brogdon is gone. He was one of my favorite players. Having said that, I'm cautiously optimistic that Matthews will be able to slide into that starting role and be able to hit a bunch of open threes. His 3p% on open looks last season was basically the same as Brogdon. He won't be the primary ball handler with bench units though. I hope they use Midds + 4 bench guys like they did with Brogdon last year.

 

Ultimately, I think it's important that either Sterling or DDV development into that starting SG spot.

 

I feel good about where the Bucks are at for the first 11 spots/likely rotation guys. Add a couple of 2-way contracts and a see what's left of the vet minimum guys in a few weeks.

[patrickgpe]

Once Bledsoe got paid, it would be hard to pay brodgon too. yes it sucks. It is smart though to get as many veteran bench guys you can. if you would have matched Indiana's offer, there would be no room to sign anyone else.

[FVBrewerFan]

Robin Lopez is clearly a better fit than Kaminsky. One thing I've noticed, defense really gets short-changed in evaluating players, especially interior defense. Having an anchor for 48 minutes is huge, aling with his energy off the bench. What does Kaminsky give you? He's not even a very good shooter for a stretch 5. Yea, we all love the Tank. I'll root for him, but glad he's not on the Bucks.

[tmwiese55]

Yea Ersan is still clearly better than Frank too IMO. This role is to do the dirty work and Robin and Ersan are more than willing to do all that while Frank has not proven to be a good defender and rebounder yet. Still youngish and did finish the season ok, but they're looking for D/Rebounding in those spots and Ersan/Robin give you that all day.

[OnTheBlack]

I want to see the Bucks sign Jabari Parker. How great would it be for no other team to offer him a deal other than the Bucks and then he's forced to return to Milwaukee for the vets minimum.

 

As for Kaminsky vs Robin Lopez, I'd probably rather we signed Kaminsky. He's got room to get better and there isn't a huge difference between them. If something were to happen to Brook Lopez, Robin can step in and take his place defensively and he's probably a little bit better of a scorer in the paint.

 

I think they'd have been better off not using the room MLE on either one and instead held out to see if we could maybe get a more versatile player. Marcus Morris was pretty unlikely, but Markieff might have been an option. A bit who can defend guys like Gasol and Horford a bit better on the perimeter.

[OnTheBlack]

I think Matthews can be real effective if they keep him to less than 20 min per game.

 

I agree 100 pct. Keep his MPG under 20 and while we're at it, sit him 10-16 games this year. Some of these moves are playoff driven. Try to build the best team to win a title.

 

Someone said he could slide into the hole that Brogdon leaves and he can help do that, but he's not the same defensive player he was when he was younger and he's not as explosive, but he can help do that.

 

 

Overall, I think we've done just about enough to protect ourselves from dropping off from the loss of Brogdon.

[OnTheBlack]

Brogdon minutes last three years: 1982, 1436, 1832.

Wesley minutes last three years: 2495, 2131, 2091.

 

 

I'm not certain what this is meant to suggest, but with those minutes, Brogdon was a much better player than Matthews this past year.

 

Wes is great. He's not nearly as good of a fit as Brogdon was...but as long as we can keep Matthews numbers down, we'll be good.

[LouisEly]

Brogdon minutes last three years: 1982, 1436, 1832.

Wesley minutes last three years: 2495, 2131, 2091.

 

 

I'm not certain what this is meant to suggest, but with those minutes, Brogdon was a much better player than Matthews this past year.

 

Wes is great. He's not nearly as good of a fit as Brogdon was...but as long as we can keep Matthews numbers down, we'll be good.

What it means is that Wes Matthews played more minutes than Brogdon each of the last three years. This is likely due to availability (a.k.a., injuries to Brogdon), but that's the point - Matthews has been available more. What might be implied is that, why spend $20M/year on Brogdon when you can spend a fraction of that on Matthews and Matthews has been available more than Brogdon.

[Bulldogboy]

Brogdon minutes last three years: 1982, 1436, 1832.

Wesley minutes last three years: 2495, 2131, 2091.

 

 

I'm not certain what this is meant to suggest, but with those minutes, Brogdon was a much better player than Matthews this past year.

 

Wes is great. He's not nearly as good of a fit as Brogdon was...but as long as we can keep Matthews numbers down, we'll be good.

What it means is that Wes Matthews played more minutes than Brogdon each of the last three years. This is likely due to availability (a.k.a., injuries to Brogdon), but that's the point - Matthews has been available more. What might be implied is that, why spend $20M/year on Brogdon when you can spend a fraction of that on Matthews and Matthews has been available more than Brogdon.

I agree with this. Wes has been playing a bunch despite the torn Achilles he went through. He appears to still have some juice. He won't be Brogdon but along with Pat and Sterling should give the Bucks enough to make another run.

[patrickgpe]

stolen from @brewcitypaul

Bucks Updated Depth Chart

PG: Bledsoe / Hill

SG: Wes Matthews / Sterling / Donte

SF: Middleton / PatCon

PF: Giannis / Ersan / DJ

C: BroLo / RoLo

 

Needs to finish roster: PG / SF / C

 

Ideal Targets

PG: TJ McConnell, Trey Burke, Jeremy Lin, Devin Harris

SF: James Ennis, Wilson Chandler, Jared Dudley

C: Luke Kornet

 

EDIT: chandler, dudley and kornet was signed but the nets, lakers and bulls respectively.

 

 

In theory, the bucks have 3 spots to fill.Ideally i'd love to see a veteran big and guard. Its too bad they had to release Wood to make room for Gasol.

 

of the summer league guys, Fletcher Magee intrigues me most as an undersized shooter to come off the bench. Id sign Vince Carter to come off the bench and maybe Markieff Morris, if they want to come in for low money deals to go for a ring. (reviewing bigs still around is pretty ugly, I know Morris isn't much but he is the best I could come up).

[pacopete4]

How come guys aren’t flocking to come play with Giannis? Is it a Milwaukee thing? I would have though big names and great role players would love to hook onto him.

[patrickgpe]

How come guys aren’t flocking to come play with Giannis? Is it a Milwaukee thing? I would have though big names and great role players would love to hook onto him.

The bucks only have so much cap room, so I think it is unfair to say this. Matthews did take less money than I think he could have gotten elsewhere to come here. After bucks resigned their guys they only have enough money to some vet minimum deals to round out the roster.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

How come guys aren’t flocking to come play with Giannis? Is it a Milwaukee thing? I would have though big names and great role players would love to hook onto him.

The bucks only have so much cap room, so I think it is unfair to say this. Matthews did take less money than I think he could have gotten elsewhere to come here. After bucks resigned their guys they only have enough money to some vet minimum deals to round out the roster.

 

I think Robin Lopez falls into this category as well. I wonder, too, if Pau Gasol is still under consideration and even interested in continuing his career? He'd be a nice big to have for limited minutes if healthy.

[patrickgpe]

 

I think Robin Lopez falls into this category as well. I wonder, too, if Pau Gasol is still under consideration and even interested in continuing his career? He'd be a nice big to have for limited minutes if healthy.

 

he said he wanted to return to the bucks. no idea if the sentiment is shared by Jon Horst.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I just read that the Suns are in the process of buying out Kyle Korver's deal. He'd be a solid rotational guy, and seemingly a nice fit for what this team does.

[patrickgpe]

bucks, lakers and sixers are the favorites to sign Korver. somehow I'd like for them to get another shooter off the bench, this would do if they can make it work.

[jjfanec]

I just read that the Suns are in the process of buying out Kyle Korver's deal. He'd be a solid rotational guy, and seemingly a nice fit for what this team does.

 

Getting Korver would really fill a couple needs. Would be solid depth signing and could really make teams pay for trying to build a giannis wall

[OnTheBlack]

How come guys aren’t flocking to come play with Giannis? Is it a Milwaukee thing? I would have though big names and great role players would love to hook onto him.

The bucks only have so much cap room, so I think it is unfair to say this. Matthews did take less money than I think he could have gotten elsewhere to come here. After bucks resigned their guys they only have enough money to some vet minimum deals to round out the roster.

 

I think Robin Lopez falls into this category as well. I wonder, too, if Pau Gasol is still under consideration and even interested in continuing his career? He'd be a nice big to have for limited minutes if healthy.

 

 

He's definitely interested in coming back according to him and you'd have to think that the Bucks would be a great fit. He's old(obviously) but if you can really limit the minutes, he's another guy who can come in and help in the big moments. I don't think he really fixes the problems we have finding someone who can defend bigs like Horford and brother Marc, but he's a guy who could be really helpful in the half court.

[OnTheBlack]

I just read that the Suns are in the process of buying out Kyle Korver's deal. He'd be a solid rotational guy, and seemingly a nice fit for what this team does.

 

There's a reason you usually saw Korver on LeBron teams. Or at least it seems like he was always on LeBron's team or they were trying to add him. He's the perfect type of player to have on your bench.

[OnTheBlack]

Brogdon minutes last three years: 1982, 1436, 1832.

Wesley minutes last three years: 2495, 2131, 2091.

 

 

I'm not certain what this is meant to suggest, but with those minutes, Brogdon was a much better player than Matthews this past year.

 

Wes is great. He's not nearly as good of a fit as Brogdon was...but as long as we can keep Matthews numbers down, we'll be good.

What it means is that Wes Matthews played more minutes than Brogdon each of the last three years. This is likely due to availability (a.k.a., injuries to Brogdon), but that's the point - Matthews has been available more. What might be implied is that, why spend $20M/year on Brogdon when you can spend a fraction of that on Matthews and Matthews has been available more than Brogdon.

 

 

I was curious if it was just that straight forward. Just comparing minutes doesn't really tell you much. Matthews had a -2.3 +/- last year while Brogdon was a +11.3 while on the court. So while I'm a fan of signing Wes Matthews and bringing him back to Milwaukee, it feels like whenever we(or anyone) loses a guy people always look for reasons to argue that it's not that bad.

 

Brogdon vs Matthews is not really that close. I think the really difficult call on the part of the Bucks was they probably needed another year to see how Brogdon could hold up. Up to this point, he played 75 games as a rookie, he had a partially torn quad his second year limiting him to 48 games and then this past year he played 64 games and had a soft tissue injury in his foot. So 2 of the 3 years he's been banged up, but was healthy as a rookie and played in 136 games in college(though he did have a dangerous injury in 2012 that forced him to redshirt).

 

So I get the Bucks hesitation. I just don't see much value in pointing out that Wesley Matthews played more minutes, almost exclusively for a really bad Mavericks team. There's also the fact that Matthews is clearly declining while Brogdon has gotten better each year and just listing their total minutes played means very-very little to me.

[OnTheBlack]

stolen from @brewcitypaul

Bucks Updated Depth Chart

PG: Bledsoe / Hill

SG: Wes Matthews / Sterling / Donte

SF: Middleton / PatCon

PF: Giannis / Ersan / DJ

C: BroLo / RoLo

 

Needs to finish roster: PG / SF / C

 

Ideal Targets

PG: TJ McConnell, Trey Burke, Jeremy Lin, Devin Harris

SF: James Ennis, Wilson Chandler, Jared Dudley

C: Luke Kornet

 

EDIT: chandler, dudley and kornet was signed but the nets, lakers and bulls respectively.

 

 

In theory, the bucks have 3 spots to fill.Ideally i'd love to see a veteran big and guard. Its too bad they had to release Wood to make room for Gasol.

 

of the summer league guys, Fletcher Magee intrigues me most as an undersized shooter to come off the bench. Id sign Vince Carter to come off the bench and maybe Markieff Morris, if they want to come in for low money deals to go for a ring. (reviewing bigs still around is pretty ugly, I know Morris isn't much but he is the best I could come up).

 

You have to think that the Sixers are gonna re-sign TJ McConnell, wouldn't you? Of that group, he'd be the ideal guy to add to the Bucks IMO. It's just the Sixers have Bird rights and it would seem so stupid for them to let him go after paying Embid, Horford and Simmons monster deals. Not to mention Harris. But they need a PG.

 

Trey Burke would be a nice option as well, but I think we're pretty covered with Bled and Hill at PG. Ideally, McConnell would come in more of a Brogdon type role and play off the ball and use him more for his catch and shoot ability.

 

But I'm with you on Morris. I think I mentioned him earlier, but while Marcus Morris would certainly be preferable(and worth using part of the TPE on if a sign and trade could be worked out), Markieff Morris would at least provide some help for when we have to match up with Philly and Toronto in the playoffs. A versatile 6'10 PF who can shoot, but also defend Horford/Gasol on the perimeter.

 

It'd be great to sign McConnell, figure out a way to pick up one of the two Morris brothers as well, but our roster is getting pretty deep. And in addition to Fletcher Magee they also signed Luke Maye as an UDFA. Maye shot 43 pct fro 3 as a 6'8 240 pound PF who could also stick.

 

Overall though, I think our roster is just fine as of right now. I think pretty much any of the guys you suggested would be good fits, and if we can sign another guy now to a veteran's minimum, that'd be great, but there will be plenty of chances to pick up guys of this caliber during the season. Via trade, buyouts, etc...etc...

 

 

I'll be really interested to see if the Bucks do in fact use that TPE if they look like they're just one player away and a significant upgrade becomes available. Their moves can be justified up until now, but if they pass on a really good player they COULD pick up by coupling Ersan and a 1st with the TPE they have and don't, we'll know what they're prioritizing.

 

 

Edit-Just saw McConnell signed with the Pacers. Also interesting, the Grizz are shopping Iguodala, but may buy him out if they don't get what they want. Now I sure as hell wouldn't want them to spend 17 million on him, but he's the type of guy who could really give our defense a big boost if he ends up getting bought out. Help out against those bigger lineup's. Of course the rumors are he'll end up with the Lakers if bought out, but isn't everyone going to LA or the Knicks?

[Mr Southpaw]

Sam Dekker would be cool.

 

Vince Carter? Jamal Crawford? Both can still shoot and would fit nicely on the bench

[coolhandluke121]

You can't combine players with a TPE. Think of it as completing the trade with the Pacers; they were allowed to take back ~$12m in salary in that trade, but they didn't, so they have a year to take back ~$12m in salary in a single trade to make up the difference. It might help to think of the new trade as basically being completion of the Pacer trade.

 

For example, if you take $12m in salary from Minnesota, it's as if Minnesota was part of the Brogdon trade in a 3-team deal. But you can't change the fundamental terms of the original trade by adding someone like Ersan to the TPE. The privilege is basically a delay in when you take back that matching salary in a one-time deal, but no other modifications of the original trade are allowed.

 

The time to get Korver was 2 years ago. He would have been perfect but it's too late IMO. Would much rather complement veterans with the young wings.