Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)

[HiAndTight]

Right, just looking at value of contracts on principle alone. I'd rather pay Brog his deal than Mids. I'd rather pay Brog his than Lopez's. Probably choose Brogdon's over Hills too due to age (though I think its a team option on his 3rd year but could be wrong, if true then IDK). Rather pay Brogdon's than Bledsoe's. Basically, just saying that going into it all I kind of though 4/80 was the expected area for him and the line that you do just match it and keep, and that's pretty much what he got. If it turned into 4/105 or something well then a bit different.

 

To me, the missed opportunity is that Brogdon had such a low cap hold so he was the one you could go over the cap to resign. So, could've freed up some space to add players (well, like they did for Brook/hill but I think they could've swung bigger/younger, and think of the space they'd have if they renounced Mid's cap hold by choosing Brog over him) then kept Brogdon and went over to really have a strong team. Instead they kind of copped out a bit to save the owners money. But hey, at least they were smart enough to get those picks back while doing it.

 

 

Bledsoe is a tough one for me to figure out. Remember, Lowry struggled for years in the playoffs. If Bledsoe can get over the hump in the playoffs, he's going to be a steal. Just play in the playoffs like he did in the regular season. But because he played so poorly, they were basically forced to bring an older Hill back.

 

But given that that's so hard to predict and going on what we know, I'd definitely rather have Brogdon than Bled.

 

 

I just have to reiterate how confused I am that they paid Middleton what they did but not Brogdon. Middleton is harder to replace, but not THAT much harder. You could have run out a lineup of Bledsoe, Brogdon, Giannis, Wilson and Lopez.

 

Now we just have to hope we can pick up a vet or two who can shoot cheap. Nobody special, but like a Danny Green if he were a few years older. Just a straight shooter. I've been told we can find those guys on the streets, so we'll see.

 

Maybe they really like Patty C also. He's a guy who's kinda getting ignored, but he showed up and played well when called upon. He needs to improve his 3 point shot a bit IMO, but he's a really good athlete and really active.

[OldHeidelberg]

I am pretty confused about the potential TPE, I didn't see anything from the beat writers on it. No one seems to know if they renounce it to sign Lopez/Hill or if it is about the order of operation with all these deals as they are completed(which I would think the Bucks could control). But I am starting to get how teams can keep adding multiple max FA's, there are about a billion ways to create space and if you aren't afraid of the tax there is always a way.

[sveumrules]

Bledsoe/Hill

DDV/Sterling/Patty C

Khris

Giannis/Ersan/DJ

Lopez/Lopez

 

From what I understand we also have a 12 million-ish traded player exception from the Brogdon S&T that we can use to presumably add another wing.

 

Assuming health looks that like a 55-60 win range team to me. Top 1-2 team in East & should be Finals bound if Kawhi goes West.

[HiAndTight]

I am pretty confused about the potential TPE, I didn't see anything from the beat writers on it. No one seems to know if they renounce it to sign Lopez/Hill or if it is about the order of operation with all these deals as they are completed(which I would think the Bucks could control). But I am starting to get how teams can keep adding multiple max FA's, there are about a billion ways to create space and if you aren't afraid of the tax there is always a way.

 

Well, not always. Look at Cleveland last year with LeBron.

 

You can pull off some miraculous nonsense. Like how the Heat ended up signing Jimmy Butler with their cap situation. But you have to be a destination that players want to go, and the things have to line up just right like how the Nets did it for Russel to go to Golden State so they could get something out of it. They just happened to be signing their top FA so they could turn that into a sign and trade.

 

But normally you have to be planning on trying to pursue a FA or adwa big contract in advance. And look how badly the Knicks keep getting left with their hands in their pockets.

 

They ALWAYS miss out on just about every top player. Remeber when it was a given that two max players were going to New York?

 

But then the morons aren't willing to pony up the max and I think he follows Kyrie to the Nets either way.

 

 

But it's a lot more than just being willing to pay the tax. If Philly's not willing to deal Butler to Miami and take back a contract in return, they can't do it.

 

You have to tear down your roster, you have to have a FA who really wants to sign with you and then a team will do a sign and trade so they get something out of it...at long as it's not just another bad contract. 95 pct of the time, that's how it happens. There are other rare scenario's in which a team over the cap can add a superstar if they're not THE team that superstar wants to sign with, but it's pretty difficult to pull off.

[HiAndTight]

Bledsoe/Hill

DDV/Sterling/Patty C

Khris

Giannis/Ersan/DJ

Lopez/Lopez

 

From what I understand we also have a 12 million-ish traded player exception from the Brogdon S&T that we can use to presumably add another wing.

 

Assuming health looks that like a 55-60 win range team to me. Top 1-2 team in East & should be Finals bound if Kawhi goes West.

 

 

I don't understand why it's 12 and not 20-something. But that definitely gives you room to go out and take advantage.

 

I do think it's a 55-60 win team and a contender to win it all. I just think our chances went from 15 pct to 10 pct and the Bucks could have done more. It's as simple as that.

 

 

On the flip side, the thing I kept saying I was worried about was that 4-5 years down the road, Giannis would be in his late 20's and the Bucks wouldn't have younger talent coming through, they'd have been in the luxury tax for all that time and without any draft picks, they would be lacking that cheap young depth. So again, at least you get the picks back.

 

And we can dream about what they may do with that PTE. If they even have it because nobody seems to actually know. But next trade deadline it could be a huge chip for a team that's in the luxury tax, but things aren't going well while we're just that one player away.

[tmwiese55]

It's still up in the air on that PTE. Probably give that a few days to shake itself out buy my best guess right now is they won't have it. Plus, I think it's pretty clear they have the goal of being under the tax so would they even use it unless absolutely needed due to injury? If they had exception it would've been a good time to get involved in that Miami deal for Josh Richardson.

[GAME05]

It seems that the Bucks had the choice to keep basically all but one. If it had to be one guy, Brogdon may well be the one who's best replaced by a DDV/Brown/Hill/Veteran Minimum person than anyone else. Good ability to drive and hit 3s, but we're also not lacking in that regard. We'll miss his FT shooting, though. I mean, if you absolutely had to choose one star to let go, wouldn't most people choose Brogdon? Not to mention Brogdon at least got us back some minor draft picks.

 

Clearly Hill was paid a bunch in large part because of his clutch playoff play. Whatever value they added to that, this only makes re-signing Middleton and his terrific playoff play all the more important to the point where his contract really isn't an overpay at all, regardless of the salary cap stuff.

 

I'm a little bit surprised it wasn't Lopez who they chose to let go. I was curious if they'd choose to move more to a quicker 5 instead of the lumbering Lopez, but I guess they're sticking with the "protect the paint/rebounding" style of defense again next year, not that it didn't work well even through the playoffs.

 

Assuming Boston finds a decent 5 to play for them, they could well be the class of the East next year. I think Tatum/Brown are going to thrive without Kyrie there. Plus Boston won't have Kyrie there to pawn off defensive assignments onto out-of-position teammates like he always did.

[OldHeidelberg]

It's still up in the air on that PTE. Probably give that a few days to shake itself out buy my best guess right now is they won't have it. Plus, I think it's pretty clear they have the goal of being under the tax so would they even use it unless absolutely needed due to injury? If they had exception it would've been a good time to get involved in that Miami deal for Josh Richardson.

 

Sounds like it's possible they could have the PTE if they stretch Leuer or even trade Ersan to clear the cap space for the new deals but if they really don't want to go over the tax they probably won't as they wouldn't want that available if they are not going to use it. I am holding out hope that it is not the tax and just Brogdon not wanting to come back so they can still add a good player like Richardson. Not sure how realistic that is though, saw Eric Gordon brought up somewhere too.

[nate82]

The Bucks have added Wesley Matthews.

 

[patrickgpe]

The Bucks have added Wesley Matthews.

 

 

this should balance out having Leuer on the team

[adambr2]

That's a very solid pickup for the minimum.

[patrickgpe]

That's a very solid pickup for the minimum.

 

this is what happens when you have the MVP and got to the ECF. Wesley is looking for a title at the end of his career. Without Giannis, you don't get a signing like this. I'd expect one or 2 more of these signings to fill out a solid roster.

[FVBrewerFan]

Given the cards they had to play, I think Horst has done a better job than I expected. With nothing but my gut to go by, I don't think Brogdon wanted to be back. So they got a 1st, two 2nds, Lopez, and Matthews for that space.

 

A quick hot take. Everyone is shooting or will be shooting 80 3s a game now. Bucks need to be better in other areas, with Giannis, Lopez, Lopez, and Ersan I think interior defense and rebounding could be huge advantage for the Bucks next season.

[sveumrules]

Brogdon minutes last three years: 1982, 1436, 1832.

Wesley minutes last three years: 2495, 2131, 2091.

[homer]

I think Matthews can be real effective if they keep him to less than 20 min per game.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Yes really. It's Indiana. You can quickly Google and see that it's still very much an issue there. It's not like he went to New Orleans or Brooklyn or some melting pot place. Plus, if it was really the reason he left, you'd think someone like him would be invested in being part of the solution rather than just skipping town.

 

I really, really doubt that segregation had anything to do with him leaving.

 

MOD EDIT: The bit that was removed was a bit too political.

[Jenkins5]

Welcome back home Wes! Wisconsin has missed you!

 

I remember in high school watching him play at state. He was year older than me & he had the Green Memorial Jersey, headband, and was #23. Had the whole LeBron James thing going on. Amazing to watch. Being a Marquette fan more so than Wisconsin, loved those McNeil, Matthews, Dom James teams.

 

Think he brings a lot to table off bench. Insurance as well for DDV & Brown.

[HiAndTight]

It's still up in the air on that PTE. Probably give that a few days to shake itself out buy my best guess right now is they won't have it. Plus, I think it's pretty clear they have the goal of being under the tax so would they even use it unless absolutely needed due to injury? If they had exception it would've been a good time to get involved in that Miami deal for Josh Richardson.

 

 

I don't, just saw a report that the TPE was important to them. It is only half(Edit-not half, but the ~12 million dollar figure you quoted earlier). and it MAY only be important because it represents a backup plan, but with that, with Matthews signing(He's a good fit, certainly not the player he was a few years ago but he should be back to as strong as possible with the Achillies well in the rearview, so maybe he serves a Shane Battier type role).

 

Pau Gasol who I think still has a little something to offer and could be a guy like Hill who could play sparingly and then help out in the post-season.

 

Maybe they actually weren't trying to stay under the luxury tax, maybe they just didn't think Brogdon was worth it and or they thought he was an injury risk. I don't see an injury he's had that would be a chronic type injury, but, whatever.

 

 

We'll see if this team is battling out for the top seed again next year if they're willing to use that TPE and...lets say Ersan to pick up a really good player who's being paid like a star that another team wants to dump. Then we'll know if this was them being more worried about the luxury tax or Brogdon making 85 over the next 4.

 

I'm still of the opinion they should have brought Brogdon back, but I'm finally feeling better as this roster rounds into shape, after they pick up a couple more key vets and round out this roster and project what DDV, Pat C and Brown can give you in Brogdon's place.

[HiAndTight]

It seems that the Bucks had the choice to keep basically all but one. If it had to be one guy, Brogdon may well be the one who's best replaced by a DDV/Brown/Hill/Veteran Minimum person than anyone else. Good ability to drive and hit 3s, but we're also not lacking in that regard. We'll miss his FT shooting, though. I mean, if you absolutely had to choose one star to let go, wouldn't most people choose Brogdon? Not to mention Brogdon at least got us back some minor draft picks.

 

Clearly Hill was paid a bunch in large part because of his clutch playoff play. Whatever value they added to that, this only makes re-signing Middleton and his terrific playoff play all the more important to the point where his contract really isn't an overpay at all, regardless of the salary cap stuff.

 

I'm a little bit surprised it wasn't Lopez who they chose to let go. I was curious if they'd choose to move more to a quicker 5 instead of the lumbering Lopez, but I guess they're sticking with the "protect the paint/rebounding" style of defense again next year, not that it didn't work well even through the playoffs.

 

Assuming Boston finds a decent 5 to play for them, they could well be the class of the East next year. I think Tatum/Brown are going to thrive without Kyrie there. Plus Boston won't have Kyrie there to pawn off defensive assignments onto out-of-position teammates like he always did.

 

 

Boston should be good...though as much as I love Kemba for his attitude, he's more of a volume shooter and an undersized PG. He's a downgrade from Kyrie and then they lost the guy that everyone around Boston has said was their most important player since he got there in Horford. So we SHOULD be easily better than them. Though you're right, Tatum and Brown could both hit their stride and develop into not just stars, but superstars. They need to adjust their games a bit though.

 

 

Philly would scare me if they'd been able to keep Butler and not Tobias Harris. What they paid Harris makes me think we got Middlton for cheap. I mean, we didn't, but as Middleton is a poor mans Klay, Harris is kinda a poor mans Middleton.

[nate82]

Kaminsky to the Suns on a 2-year deal at $10m. Would have loved Kaminsky on that deal for the Bucks.

 

https://arizonasports.com/story/1996411/frank-kaminsky-agrees-phoenix-suns-nba-free-agency/

[HiAndTight]

Yes really. It's Indiana. You can quickly Google and see that it's still very much an issue there. It's not like he went to New Orleans or Brooklyn or some melting pot place. Plus, if it was really the reason he left, you'd think someone like him would be invested in being part of the solution rather than just skipping town.

 

I really, really doubt that segregation had anything to do with him leaving.

 

MOD EDIT: The bit that was removed was a bit too political.

 

 

We're not talking about the state. He's not going to be traveling all over the state, he'll be spending his time in the city(for the most part and he didn't say Wisconsin, he said Milwaukee). I think the "Milwaukee is racist" thing was a little unfair. The suburbs, sure, but again, it's just kinda part of the fabric of the country.

 

And I just said it's an issue in just about every major city in the country for a litany of reasons but Milwaukee is the worst. There are a whole lot of systemic causes for this, but even if Malcolm wants to go into politics, I don't want to here. So you don't need to tell me it's "still an issue there," nobody said it wasn't. I'm saying it's not AS BIG of an issue and they realize it's an issue, they actually talk about it, and have been implementing policies to try to address it. And in all this, we're trying to figure out what he's thinking. So not only is it NOT as bad as Milwaukee with regard to what Malcolm was talking about, we're talking about a city that fiercely fought the Brown verdict and spent years trying to keep it segregated. So maybe it had nothing to do with it and he just pointed out Milwaukee's got this problem. Maybe he liked that Indianapolis was working toward solving it after fighting integration for so long, Don't know, don't really care, just telling you, they're not really "the same."

 

 

And no, I don't think "someone like him" would be more invested in being part of the solution than "skipping towns." What is HE gonna do at this point in his life to fix the problem that he wasn't already likely doing? He's not running for office. He was probably living in an affluent part of Milwaukee that was largely white. So that was his contribution.

 

 

I don't really know how you can be part of the solution for that when you're playing basketball other than offering platitudes. You're talking about where people are living. That's something that would need to be addressed at a much deeper level than offering platitudes which is all Malcolm Brogdon the non-elected NBA player could do....he's not ACTUALLY the "President."

[HiAndTight]

Kaminsky to the Suns on a 2-year deal at $10m. Would have loved Kaminsky on that deal for the Bucks.

 

https://arizonasports.com/story/1996411/frank-kaminsky-agrees-phoenix-suns-nba-free-agency/

 

 

Mey, with the two Lopez's, Ersan, Wilson(I keep accidentally typing Henson when I want to say DJ Wilson) and maybe/maybe not Leuer, I think the tank would have seen a lot of DNP's.

 

I would have liked him better than Robin Lopez though. That didn't make much sense to me.

 

 

 

I did just see something about the Bucks are working on something else. An optimist might think they're working on adding a nice 2 guard with the TPE and maybe using DDV or someone to throw in, but my guess is it's something like Pau Gasol will sign for the Vets Min on a non-guaranteed deal.

 

After this flurry, if we go into the season with this squad, I'd be fine. Especially since the POTENTIALLY turned Brogdon into a 12 million dollar trade exception, a 1st and 2 sends. Still would rather have Malcom, but there are a whole lot of players who could help us at that price.

 

 

Like maybe THIS YEAR would be a good year to trade a promising young player at the deadline for someone like JJ Reddick as opposed to the year they were just a contender to lose in the 1st round and gave up a 19 year old future all-star. I'd be pretty shocked if we added anyone else that really tipped the scales one way or the other at this point.

[patrickgpe]

Kaminsky to the Suns on a 2-year deal at $10m. Would have loved Kaminsky on that deal for the Bucks.

 

https://arizonasports.com/story/1996411/frank-kaminsky-agrees-phoenix-suns-nba-free-agency/

 

i would have preferred him too over robin lopez in a vacuum, but maybe having the lopez twins together will revive robin.

 

coming from a known badger basketball hater and Marquette fan too

[patrickgpe]

Welcome back home Wes! Wisconsin has missed you!

 

I remember in high school watching him play at state. He was year older than me & he had the Green Memorial Jersey, headband, and was #23. Had the whole LeBron James thing going on. Amazing to watch. Being a Marquette fan more so than Wisconsin, loved those McNeil, Matthews, Dom James teams.

 

Think he brings a lot to table off bench. Insurance as well for DDV & Brown.

haven't bought a shersey in a while but this may one to get.

[reillymcshane]

Kaminsky to the Suns on a 2-year deal at $10m. Would have loved Kaminsky on that deal for the Bucks.

 

https://arizonasports.com/story/1996411/frank-kaminsky-agrees-phoenix-suns-nba-free-agency/

I think Kaminksy would have fit our system pretty well. In fact, the Bucks were reportedly interested in him at the deadline last year.

 

However, while I think Frank would have offered a shooter like Lopez, I don't know about the defense. Maybe Milwaukee just didn't think he could be effective defensively in our scheme (I personally don't know -- I can't judge that kind of stuff very well).