Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)

[monkeyman343434]

Darren Collison retired, so don't think the Bucks will be picking him up

[sveumrules]

Hope everyone (except George Hill, he was okay) can figure out how to better handle post second round of the playoffs pressure in the coming months, otherwise it will have all been for naught yet again.

[monkeyman343434]

Bucks looking at Robin Lopez to be Brook's backup

[reillymcshane]

Bucks looking at Robin Lopez to be Brook's backup

Supposedly a deal is done.

 

 

Robin Lopez coming to the Bucks.

[reillymcshane]

Well, I think the Bucks did okay today. I really liked Brogdon, but I don't think he wanted to be in Milwaukee. But he will be missed.

 

On the flip side, we get Hill for the entire year, and the addition of Robin Lopez could be a steal. Getting the 1st rounder (and the two 2nd rounders) is a nice way to reload the supply chain. We need those kinds of assets.

 

Are we better than last year? I don't know. But I think we can get there. Let's hope a full year of Hill, plus Lopez, makes up for the lose of Brogdon.

 

The other thing we can't discount is the club adding a good player or two for league minimum. There are always role type players that are looking to play on a good team with title aspirations. Milwaukee is one of those teams. Perhaps we can draw another player or two to contribute next year.

 

If the Bucks can stay under the salary cap, that would be great. Sure I want them to spend - but I'm not going to worry about what I can't control. If the team elects to do so - great. But no one can force them to make moves.

[reillymcshane]

Robin Lopez gets 2-years, $9.77M total. $4.77M in 2019/20, and $5M for 20/21. The Bucks are using their Room Exception to make this move.

[Jenkins5]

I’m just excited to have Lopez bros together. They are two very unique guys. Brook is more the quiet bookwarm & perfectionist, Robin is the more aggressive & talkative one but it is hilarious listening to them jab on each other all the time. They are very close but love to joke around. Think it will make locker room even better.

 

As a player, Robin is very good at what he does. He is tough & defends the basket. He isn’t the scorer Brook is but good guy off the bench to have.

[nate82]

So Russell to the Warriors. It looks like the biggest losers in FA are the Knicks and the Lakers so far Kawhi is still out there. I don't see the Knicks getting Kawhi but the Lakers might. If the Lakers get Kawhi how are they going to fill the rest of the team?

[jjfanec]

So Russell to the Warriors. It looks like the biggest losers in FA are the Knicks and the Lakers so far Kawhi is still out there. I don't see the Knicks getting Kawhi but the Lakers might. If the Lakers get Kawhi how are they going to fill the rest of the team?

 

T-Wolves are losers here too. They wanted Russell. They were trying to move Wiggins and get Russell. I am guessing no one wanted Wiggins contract.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Initially really disappointed to lose Brogdon. But if he just really didn't like Milwaukee and didn't want to be here, getting something back for him and letting him go was better than nothing. Mirotic didn't play much in the regular season for the bucks and was just brutal in the playoffs, and his defense really is bad. There's just no other way to put it, he doesn't defend well at all. That's not revisionist history, he can't get back down the floor, he's slow he's basically a statue on defense.

 

DJ Wilson is still pretty raw but he showed a lot of flashes this last year.

 

There's no way Sterling Brown and ddv replace Brogdon minutes, but I'm sure the Bucks see a future for ddv in Milwaukee. I know it was just the Pistons, but the Bucs swept the Pistons with an average margin of victory of like 20 points with no Brogden.

[JohnBriggs12]

ddv has to be the key guy in the Bucks plans. I personally think his ability and game might fit better on this roster than Brogdon's. Of course he has to stay healthy.

 

Wilson is another guy who needs to see his minutes way up. I think his inaction in the playoffs was a mistake.

[monkeyman343434]

and Patrick Beverly signed for 40M over 3 years.....

[GAME05]

I agree that DJ Wilson's absence in the playoffs was a mistake. Brook was a little exposed to guarding quick-step bigs on the outside, so maybe next year the Bucks will have a better idea of how to rotate Irsan and DJ in for Brook when the other team goes a bit smaller.

 

I was a little surprised the Bucks didn't instead choose to spend Hill's money on spending more for Brogdon, but the Bucks know more than we do about it. Maybe they thought his foot was a bigger issue and like was said, maybe Brogdon didn't love it here. Who knows. But the draft picks sure help to more quickly finish off these Mirotic/Monroe trades. When Giannis starts to get really pricey we'll be relying on draft guys a lot more.

 

With the luxury tax hitting so hard when you go over it in consecutive years, maybe Milwaukee prefers to hold that possibility of going over until next offseason just so they might better be able to sign a FA friend of Giannis to help convince him to stay.

 

I'm not a fan of the Hill signing, but that topic has been beaten to death here.

 

I think it was a bad move by the Nets to prioritize Kyrie over Russell.

 

Also I'm gonna laugh so hard if the Lakers don't get Kwai Leonard. They'll get to play a full season with 2.5 good players and everyone else on the roster will be a G-League guy. Just as LeBron is reaching peak cockiness he'll be stuck on a mediocre team.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The Brogdon didn't like Milwaukee narrative kind of falls apart when I find out he's going to...Indiana. It's not like he went to Brooklyn. He's going to probably one of the three closest comps to Milwaukee in the NBA. I think it was probably just a case of choosing who to keep and wanting to address what they felt was a bigger area of need somewhere else. FWIW, they played pretty well when he got hurt, not that I don't think he's a fine player.

 

I would've bought Mirotic's plane ticket out of town. He was terrible.

[HiAndTight]

Hope everyone (except George Hill, he was okay) can figure out how to better handle post second round of the playoffs pressure in the coming months, otherwise it will have all been for naught yet again.

 

 

Yeah, Hill and BROGDON both seemed to handle the pressure well.

 

 

Seriously though, if Bled can just play to his ability level, not try to do too much, we'd be fine. He's a lockdown defender with those long arms and his quickness(and he's physical).

 

It's just gonna take me a bit to not be upset that a team that is predicated on the 3 ball and spacing the floor lost it's best shooter and one of the games better shooters(and a really good all-around player).

 

 

DDV has some bounce to him and he hit 40 pct of his 3's at 'Nova. So...I'm gonna have to hope he can help us out.

 

But people were talking about these guys taking Middleton's place...and that would have been hard as they don't fit what he does the same, but I hope this doesn't change the team dynamic too much.

 

I also wonder if he really just didn't want to return to Milwaukee. It's not something you hear about as much living near the city, but it is really segregated and Brogdon spoke out about that and I'm sure that's not going to be a check against us in the future as well. Not the determining factor by any means, but for a socially conscious athlete like Brogdon who wants athletes to speak up about political issues, maybe he was also making a statement.

 

Frankly, I'll be a whole lot less pissed if Brogdon wanted out rather than the Bucks decided that he was gonna get a few million more than their "walk away" number. Love the draft picks. I've been talking about that for a while. But the picks they got are soooo hit or miss, that only slightly numbs the pain.

[HiAndTight]

ddv has to be the key guy in the Bucks plans. I personally think his ability and game might fit better on this roster than Brogdon's. Of course he has to stay healthy.

 

Wilson is another guy who needs to see his minutes way up. I think his inaction in the playoffs was a mistake.

 

 

I'm trying to talk myself into this as well, but how? I think if you were to envision the perfect guard next to Bledsoe, it'd be a PG/Combo guard with size who can defend and is a great shooter and who while not being a great athlete, does a very good job at getting to the rim and finishing. He plays smart and knows when to attack.

 

 

DDV may end up being a good fit, but talk me into him being a better fit? And go ahead and be optimistic in your projections. I think it's fair to think he could take a big step next year as he played a few years of college and has spent a year in the NBA(and I'm going to assume that Bud is similar to Pop in that he likes the Rookies to sit and learn for a year before playing them).

 

 

Agreed on Wilson. I hope he and Giannis are working out together..though as Thon pointed out, that's not a guarantee of anything, but if Wilson can just maintain his 3 point shooting pct and take another 1-1.5 a game, that'd be huge.

[homer]

Sterling Brown is a good three point shooter too. He can't get to the rim like Brogdon though.

[HiAndTight]

The Brogdon didn't like Milwaukee narrative kind of falls apart when I find out he's going to...Indiana. It's not like he went to Brooklyn. He's going to probably one of the three closest comps to Milwaukee in the NBA. I think it was probably just a case of choosing who to keep and wanting to address what they felt was a bigger area of need somewhere else. FWIW, they played pretty well when he got hurt, not that I don't think he's a fine player.

 

I would've bought Mirotic's plane ticket out of town. He was terrible.

 

 

Not really. They don't have nearly the same segregations issues we have, and they've made it a concerted effort to try and de-segregate the schools down in Indianapolis.

 

It's similar in that they're both smaller market Mid-West cities, but not in how Brogdon was complaining.

 

 

As for Mirotic, I don't really care because of all the FA's, he was the guy who we could replace the easiest with Wilson. But he's a good player. He came here, was injured and then was not put in a very good position in the playoffs.

 

The Bucks basically went with Giannis at the 3(I guess), him at the 4 and Lopez at the 5. So he was responsible for Siakam at times. They were starting Bledsoe, Middleton, Giannis, Mirotic and Lopez unless I'm mistaken.

 

It was a bad matchup for us. He should have been coming off the bench.

[HiAndTight]

I agree that DJ Wilson's absence in the playoffs was a mistake. Brook was a little exposed to guarding quick-step bigs on the outside, so maybe next year the Bucks will have a better idea of how to rotate Irsan and DJ in for Brook when the other team goes a bit smaller.

 

I was a little surprised the Bucks didn't instead choose to spend Hill's money on spending more for Brogdon, but the Bucks know more than we do about it. Maybe they thought his foot was a bigger issue and like was said, maybe Brogdon didn't love it here. Who knows. But the draft picks sure help to more quickly finish off these Mirotic/Monroe trades. When Giannis starts to get really pricey we'll be relying on draft guys a lot more.

 

With the luxury tax hitting so hard when you go over it in consecutive years, maybe Milwaukee prefers to hold that possibility of going over until next offseason just so they might better be able to sign a FA friend of Giannis to help convince him to stay.

 

I'm not a fan of the Hill signing, but that topic has been beaten to death here.

 

I think it was a bad move by the Nets to prioritize Kyrie over Russell.

 

Also I'm gonna laugh so hard if the Lakers don't get Kwai Leonard. They'll get to play a full season with 2.5 good players and everyone else on the roster will be a G-League guy. Just as LeBron is reaching peak cockiness he'll be stuck on a mediocre team.

 

 

Agree with you on Wilson. The problem is by the time it became real obvious he should be in there for defensive reasons, he'd been sitting for a few weeks. I'd imagine he'd play a bigger role next year. He can be an important player without having to score much.

 

Agree with spending the money on Brogdon instead. Maybe they don't like his medicals. But that foot injury..that's not like the broken foot he had at UVA as a Freshmen. That's a pretty standard injury and once you're back from it, it's really not something that will derail your career. It's a soft tissue injury, no that dreaded navicular bone that has ruined so many careers. I think they just weren't' prepared to go that high for him. I don't agree. I think they should have. [sarcasm]Maybe I'll be proven wrong when he comes back 25 pounds lighter and is the quickest PG in the NBA next year[/sarcasm].

 

I like that they brought Hill back. I'm with you that given the choice, I'd rather throw that 9 toward Brogdon, but since we didn't, it was good he came back.

 

 

As for the Nets, I think we're judging Kyrie WAAY too much on the last series he played. He had open looks. He just struggled. Again, the worst 4 game shooting stretch for him of his entire career. He's a better player than Russel IMO, BUT even if he's not, KD and he are good friends. So KD and Jordan, who signed for a bit of a discount, probably don't go to the Nets if they choose DeAngelo over Kyrie. So hard to question that. And while they won't be that good next year, what they will be able to do is let some of their young players grow, probably snag a 5 or a 6 seed..if not higher and then come back with KD the year after that and cause some problems for teams.

 

At the very least, we known he's great when he's a secondary star.

 

 

 

And if the Lakers don't get Kawhi, it is going to be hilarious. They're watching really good players sign hoping that they can team up 3 of the top 4- players(with KD hurt) in the NBA on the same team and then fill it out with MLE, Bi-Annual and a bunch of minimums. What they should have done was just try and build a smart team around the two stars they do have. Beverly and Bogdonovich would have made them SO dangerous right away.

 

I think Rob Pelinka's a clown. Not because of Magic, but because he didn't time the AD trade right, he ended up giving up WAAAY too much. They then had to just dump last years 1st round pick and two other players so they could make up for not making sure the Pelicans would agree to complete the trade at the end of July. And I think those draft picks could really come back in 2024/2025 where they can switch or are unprotected and potentially really bite them like the Brooklyn picks did after they traded for KG.

 

LeBron is going to be almost 40 by then. There's a real shot the Lakers are rebuilding. Zion could be in his prime with some other young studs and they could end up getting the #1 pick! The bid against themselves and gave up way too much and now are counting on Kawhi to bail them out when it looks like he's most likely going back to Tor or going to the Clippers.

[HiAndTight]

Sterling Brown is a good three point shooter too. He can't get to the rim like Brogdon though.

 

 

Or defend. At least he hasn't shown he can yet. He was just put in there as kinda a filler for Brogdon after he got hurt.

 

 

I guess I'll just say at this point last year I was disappointed the Bucks didn't get anything for Parker and I wasn't all that excited about Brooke Lopez.

 

 

I'm still unsure if the Bucks have a massive PTE out there, but if they DO, that really is the only scenario in which they could truly add a better player than Middleton to their team. With John Wall still a year away from playing and a year a year away from his 4/170 deal kicking in, I wonder what it'd take for Washington to trade Beal if they're again sitting at the bottom of the East next year?

 

And even if they aren't but just want to reload. If the Bucks could somehow add Beal, IF they have the exception available to them(and I've read they get it and they don't) then they could turn those draft picks and maybe a couple of their young guards into Beal. THAT could be a championship caliber lineup with Bled/Beal/Midd/Giannis/Lopez and they'd still have a good bench. Highly unlikely, but at least possible IF they have that PTE.

 

Washington could save 28 million without having to take back much salary and at least add a few picks while they start to rebuild. I'm guessing they'd get better offers from teams, but when you see what Butler goes to Miami for or how Russell gets to the Warriors, I guess it's possible. Different circumstances, but still, possible.

[homer]

The Brogdon didn't like Milwaukee narrative kind of falls apart when I find out he's going to...Indiana. It's not like he went to Brooklyn. He's going to probably one of the three closest comps to Milwaukee in the NBA. I think it was probably just a case of choosing who to keep and wanting to address what they felt was a bigger area of need somewhere else. FWIW, they played pretty well when he got hurt, not that I don't think he's a fine player.

 

I would've bought Mirotic's plane ticket out of town. He was terrible.

 

 

Not really. They don't have nearly the same segregations issues we have, and they've made it a concerted effort to try and de-segregate the schools down in Indianapolis.

 

 

Indy was ranked 11th most segregated city in the country. Obviously not #1 but still pretty bad.

 

But regardless, here is his entire comment on Milwaukee:

 

"Before I came to Milwaukee I’d heard the city was the most segregated in the country," Brogdon said in the article. "I’d heard it was racist. When I got here it was extremely segregated. I’ve never lived in a city this segregated. Milwaukee’s very behind in terms of being progressive. There are things that need to change rapidly.”

[tmwiese55]

Overall it could've been worse. Feel like they probably could have negotiated better on the Lopez and Mids contracts to free up more money and lower tax bills for the future. But, it's the NBA and it seems their GMs are the worst negotiators in the world other than maybe NCAA ADs who hand out ridiculous contracts to coaches even when the coach is still under contract for 6 more years. Still, all in all they brought everyone back except Brogdon and at least got something back for him. I'd have preferred to run it back and pay the tax, and to at least keep the asset to trade. But they kind of met in the middle and just traded the asset now instead of risk another injury, which is fine. Presumable Niko was gone no matter what so can't really factor much in there. Once the Hill resigning dropped it all made more sense. But, part of that sense is the team trying avoid the tax.

 

I do think I'd have preferred to use their last bullet on a G instead of the Robin Lopez since they had a lot of bigs already. But, bird in the hand I guess. They got a good player on a very cheap deal. No guarantees the G targets would have taken it. Best fit left is probably Curry but no way he takes league min. They have to get another Wing/G who has some ballhandling skills. Not ideal to go into the year with just Bled/Hill and to trust DDV/Brown that much, especially with ball handling. Seems to me the only route is league min deals (which I'll guess Devin Harris) or looking for a trade. Maybe Ersan and a 1st for a G with a similar contract.

 

One route I'd have been curious on instead. You'd think Al would've been interested in us due to Bud. Don't' sign Brook/Hill but instead sign Horford. totals get close but might've had to free up a bit more somehow. Then sign Brog and go over cap. I think that team is the title favorite if Kawhi doesn't go to Lebron.

[HiAndTight]

The Brogdon didn't like Milwaukee narrative kind of falls apart when I find out he's going to...Indiana. It's not like he went to Brooklyn. He's going to probably one of the three closest comps to Milwaukee in the NBA. I think it was probably just a case of choosing who to keep and wanting to address what they felt was a bigger area of need somewhere else. FWIW, they played pretty well when he got hurt, not that I don't think he's a fine player.

 

I would've bought Mirotic's plane ticket out of town. He was terrible.

 

 

Not really. They don't have nearly the same segregations issues we have, and they've made it a concerted effort to try and de-segregate the schools down in Indianapolis.

 

 

Indy was ranked 11th most segregated city in the country. Obviously not #1 but still pretty bad.

 

But regardless, here is his entire comment on Milwaukee:

 

"Before I came to Milwaukee I’d heard the city was the most segregated in the country," Brogdon said in the article. "I’d heard it was racist. When I got here it was extremely segregated. I’ve never lived in a city this segregated. Milwaukee’s very behind in terms of being progressive. There are things that need to change rapidly.”

 

 

All major cities are going to have segregation issues for a whole host of reasons that aren't worth getting into here.

 

I never really thought of Milwaukee as being that bad, but I'm not black. I was in a situation very similar to what Sterling Brown went through and I was actually kinda mouthing off as being a jerk(it was over 15 years ago and I'd been drinking). The cop didn't say a word, told me he could write me a ticket, so I shouldn't do that.

 

So experiences are very different. I'm sure Malcolm was pretty aware of that situation. And as I said, Indy is actively trying to improve and make their schools less segregated. I honestly don't know of a good way to do that, but in the few minutes I spent, there were a few articles that made it sound like they were having some success.

 

But you're going to have to deal with things in every city. I also kinda doubt Milwaukee is that much worse than Indy, but I can't say how bad Milwaukee is because it's never been bad for me.

 

 

 

At least they got something for him though. That's the best thing I can say. I'm still kinda baffled as to why they paid Middleton what they did and Lopez and Hill what they did and they chose to let Brogdon walk. Especially if they didn't get that PTE. That could be like Gold to the Bucks if they got it and were actually willing to use it.

[tmwiese55]

Right, just looking at value of contracts on principle alone. I'd rather pay Brog his deal than Mids. I'd rather pay Brog his than Lopez's. Probably choose Brogdon's over Hills too due to age (though I think its a team option on his 3rd year but could be wrong, if true then IDK). Rather pay Brogdon's than Bledsoe's. Basically, just saying that going into it all I kind of though 4/80 was the expected area for him and the line that you do just match it and keep, and that's pretty much what he got. If it turned into 4/105 or something well then a bit different.

 

To me, the missed opportunity is that Brogdon had such a low cap hold so he was the one you could go over the cap to resign. So, could've freed up some space to add players (well, like they did for Brook/hill but I think they could've swung bigger/younger, and think of the space they'd have if they renounced Mid's cap hold by choosing Brog over him) then kept Brogdon and went over to really have a strong team. Instead they kind of copped out a bit to save the owners money. But hey, at least they were smart enough to get those picks back while doing it.

[OnTheBlack]

Right, just looking at value of contracts on principle alone. I'd rather pay Brog his deal than Mids. I'd rather pay Brog his than Lopez's. Probably choose Brogdon's over Hills too due to age (though I think its a team option on his 3rd year but could be wrong, if true then IDK). Rather pay Brogdon's than Bledsoe's. Basically, just saying that going into it all I kind of though 4/80 was the expected area for him and the line that you do just match it and keep, and that's pretty much what he got. If it turned into 4/105 or something well then a bit different.

 

To me, the missed opportunity is that Brogdon had such a low cap hold so he was the one you could go over the cap to resign. So, could've freed up some space to add players (well, like they did for Brook/hill but I think they could've swung bigger/younger) then kept Brogdon and went over to really have a strong team. Instead they kind of copped out a bit to save the owners money. But hey, at least they were smart enough to get those picks back while doing it.

 

 

Agreed. If you're going to overpay Middleton, Lopez(both of them really IMO) and Hill, you might as well overpay the 26 year old Brogdon as well.

 

And I don't really get the Robin Lopez signing. That uses your MLE when you could have signed another shooter. The UDFA from Worford isn't going to get it done.

 

 

Just when it was playing out like I'd hoped it would, they used their cap room to sign Lopez, to sign Hill, they gave Middleton the Max(close enough)....and they were right there. Right on the verge of adding that final piece to get them back and hopefully over the hump in the East.

 

I don't blame them for not taking a bigger swing as I just don't think we're signing FA's in Milwaukee over the places where the upper echelon FA's actually signed.

 

 

Forbes went over the best and worst case scenario's for each NBA team. I only looked at a few, but they were amazingly close on several. The Heat getting Jimmy Butler, the Nets getting KD and Kyrie, the Pacers getting Brogdon, the Bucks doing most of what they did...

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/briansampson/2019/06/25/milwaukee-bucks-nba-free-agency-khris-middleton/#4bd2d45213d4

 

Pretty dang close.