Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)

[coolhandluke121]

Again, I wanted to trade him so they could keep everyone else. I didn't advocate trading Brogdon so they could save 10's of millions of dollars, which is what they've done. For god's sake that's exactly what I've openly feared all along. What's so hard to understand about that? I've always advocated for keeping as many of their guys as possible and paying the tax.

 

At mid-season, my first choice was to trade Brogdon so they could keep everyone else. That switched to Khris when it became clear he would get a near-max deal, but the point is that I just want them to keep as many players as possible and not be cheap. And they've been significantly cheaper than even I feared they would be.

 

And my plan to let Khris walk would have had them back under the tax threshold in just one year.

 

 

 

 

They are keeping everyone else.

 

 

 

The lost Mirotic and probably Hill. When I say everyone else, I mean everyone else. Not some subset of everyone else that prioritizes two B-level talents over 3 others.

[homer]

Hill back for 3/29

[adambr2]

Hill is back. 3 years, $29M. Can we all get along now?

[HiAndTight]

 

They lost Brogdon and Mirotic, are they better or even as good today than that playoff team last season?

 

Probably Hill too. Think he has to settle for a room MLE in this market? GM's can be really dumb in overrating certain players and underrating others - especially great defenders like Hill - but I would be surprised if he's back.

 

So no, they're not as good as the playoff team last year. Not even close.

 

 

Yes, I do think that's what he has to settle for in this market. This market is paying out younger players. They're not giving big money to aging backup point guards.

 

 

And stop it with the "I told you so." I really don't want to keep going back and showing where you said the EXACT opposite and I don't want to read a pissing match when I'm already annoyed whenever on the black gets on.

 

 

I think you told everyone-everything, so you told us we should or could or would do every possible iteration of what could happen.

[coolhandluke121]

What is a TPE and do the Bucks have one? Also, what is a TPE

 

 

 

Traded player exception and the Bucks have a very big one. I think it's pretty straight forward, they can take back money in a trade...as well as a number of other things.

 

I don't think it's that big. Pretty sure it has to be half of Brogdon's new salary, i.e., the same amount of salary they could legally take back in a sign-and-trade involving a BYC player. It also can't be combined with other players to make it bigger.

 

Not a lot of good players making ~$10m being given away for trade exceptions these days. Besides, it's a little too uncanny that they managed to stay just a smidge under the luxury tax when it's all said and done. Far from a given that they'll use the TPE.

[homer]

The lesson here is....the off season ain't over till it's over.

[coolhandluke121]

Hill is back. 3 years, $29M. Can we all get along now?

 

Not sure how they have the cap space to give him that. Did they waive/stretch someone?

 

ETA: Guess Leuer could give them almost exactly the first year of a contract like that. But 3 years?

[homer]

I don't think the math quite works out for the Hill deal....must be some corresponding moves (Leuer + ??)

[BillScottCanRake]

Frank Madden is assuming they stretched Leuer.

 

 

Have to assume Leuer is being stretched to make this possible. Curious if it’s fully or partially guaranteed.

[HiAndTight]

Again, I wanted to trade him so they could keep everyone else. I didn't advocate trading Brogdon so they could save 10's of millions of dollars, which is what they've done. For god's sake that's exactly what I've openly feared all along. What's so hard to understand about that? I've always advocated for keeping as many of their guys as possible and paying the tax.

 

At mid-season, my first choice was to trade Brogdon so they could keep everyone else. That switched to Khris when it became clear he would get a near-max deal, but the point is that I just want them to keep as many players as possible and not be cheap. And they've been significantly cheaper than even I feared they would be.

 

And my plan to let Khris walk would have had them back under the tax threshold in just one year.

 

 

 

 

They are keeping everyone else.

 

 

 

The lost Mirotic and probably Hill. When I say everyone else, I mean everyone else. Not some subset of everyone else that prioritizes two B-level talents over 3 others.

 

 

Dude, you talk out of BOTH sides of your mouth.

 

They brought back everyone on the team at the time you made the comment that they SHOULDN'T match a big RFA offer sheet for Brogdon

 

Mirotic hadn't been traded for yet and Hill is talking to the Bucks.

 

So they're doing EXACTLY what you said you wanted them to do before you wanted them to do something different...I guess.

 

Here AGAIN is your comment so you can't keep changing your story;

 

 

 

YOU about BROGDON.

I also think he's got a bit of an Allen Crabbe/Tyler Johnson "darling" reputation that he won't live up to. All those guys had pretty good numbers in a very favorable situation, and look at the RFA offers they got. Brogdon could get even more. Personally I think if he gets that, then he owes 75% of it to Bledsoe, Middleton, Bud, and especially Giannis. It's kind of a like a 4th wide receiver on a lethal offense putting up numbers comparable to a normal #2 guy because defenses don't pay much attention to him and the offense is designed to spread the ball around. When he plays as the #2 or #3 guy, he just dribbles too much trying to get around his guy and the offense stagnates.

 

Lastly, if he does get some kind of ridiculous 4-year offer sheet, you're in a bind. I want them to pay the luxury tax next year, but not for 4 straight years. That greatly affects their ability to use salary exception slots. I really don't think they'd miss him that much. His RPM provides statistical evidence that the team doesn't struggle when he goes to the bench.

 

 

 

So they didn't have Mirotic then, who are the "everyone else" that they are likely to lose?

[FVBrewerFan]

As I predicted, everyone back except Brogdon and Miroric.

[Jenkins5]

Coolhandluke furious Hill didn’t get 19 million to stay with the Bucks and was made free agent..... Bucks get him back at 9.75 million a year..... Why I’m happy Horst is GM & not a fan reacting on emotions

[HiAndTight]

Hill is back. 3 years, $29M. Can we all get along now?

 

Not sure how they have the cap space to give him that. Did they waive/stretch someone?

 

 

I don't know man, you're the one who's the expert on the CBA.

 

 

Guess they lost the ONE player you wanted them to lose. The player you actually said it was an emergency that they traded.

 

I'm annoyed as shite that the Bucks let Brogdon walk, yet somehow, this can be even more annoying when you've literally argued for every different point and STILL somehow say "I told you guys exactly what would happen."

 

 

Can I just PUH-LEASE wallow in my misery without another "I told you so tonight?" And in kind, I won't remark at all about the deal that Hill got and just agree that he's a very nice player, but losing Brogdon sucks.

 

 

Deal?

[coolhandluke121]

Coolhandluke furious Hill didn’t get 19 million to stay with the Bucks and was made free agent..... Bucks get him back at 9.75 million a year..... Why I’m happy Horst is GM & not a fan reacting on emotions

 

First off it was only $17m more than his $1m guarantee so I don't see why people keep saying $19m. Secondly, his expiring contract for trade potential was a big part of wanting him back. Thirdly, this shows that not waiving him would not have cost that much more anyway.

 

But I am surprised they free up enough cap space for Hill and Lopez, and that makes it a lot better. Still would take Brogdon and Mirotic over Khris any day of the week but this could have been worse.

[adambr2]

I really, really wanted Brogdon back, but let's remember they completely outclassed an extremely talented Celtics' team without him.

 

Also, I completely agree that Middleton is overpaid, but there's a bigger picture here -- this is Giannis' team. And if Middleton is an essential cog in keeping Giannis happy and signing a supermax here, then he's worth every penny.

[HiAndTight]

As I predicted, everyone back except Brogdon and Miroric.

 

 

Really? You thought Brogdon was gone?

 

I thought he was a given or a near given to return since he was restricted and a lot cheaper than Middleton.

[adambr2]

As I predicted, everyone back except Brogdon and Miroric.

 

 

Really? You thought Brogdon was gone?

 

I thought he was a given or a near given to return since he was restricted and a lot cheaper than Middleton.

 

 

This is speculative on my part, but I just don't think Brogdon was crazy about Milwaukee, and I think basketball is more of a way for him to pursue other future ambitions than something he's really passionate about.

 

Bledsoe and Lopez for example always seemed like they really wanted to stay here and be a part of this. I just never got that impression from Malcolm.

[coolhandluke121]

 

Not sure how they have the cap space to give him that. Did they waive/stretch someone?

 

I don't know man, you're the one who's the expert on the CBA.

 

I'm not on Twitter. Was just asking if someone had news of a waive/stretch that I didn't know about yet.

 

 

Guess they lost the ONE player you wanted them to lose. The player you actually said it was an emergency that they traded.

 

I'm annoyed as shite that the Bucks let Brogdon walk, yet somehow, this can be even more annoying when you've literally argued for every different point and STILL somehow say "I told you guys exactly what would happen."

 

 

I have changed my mind about which one player I would prefer to lose if they have to lose one, and I have a right to since a lot has changed since that Brogdon post from mid-season. But I've been consistent about only wanting to lose one. In January, that was Brogdon. When they got Mirotic and then when I realized Khris was going to get a lot more than I thought he was worth, I changed to him because there's no way in hell he's worth a max.

 

But I have consistently said I wanted to keep as many guys as possible, and they could have kept Brogdon and Mirotic for the cost of Khris. Two for the price of one trumps all differences between the players they risked losing, but at least Mirotic and Brogdon aren't as important as Hill to next season's record IMO. And the kept the 3 who I think help the record the most (Lopez, Hill, and Khris in some order). Could have kept 4 though.

[Mr Southpaw]

#1 Priority Trade Ersan, make room for #2 and # 3.

#2 Priority Sign Christian Wood to a multi year contract, the man can play, period. (Giannis mini me)

#3 Priority Sign Frank Kaminsky as back up center.

#4 Priority Extend Pat Connaughton, if possible. (he replaces Malcolm in the lineup)

#5 Priority Find an adequate back up point guard

[homer]

So at end of the day, Bucks signed everyone except Mirotic and Brogdon and got a 1st and two 2nd round picks.

[Mr Southpaw]

So at end of the day, Bucks signed everyone except Mirotic and Brogdon and got a 1st and two 2nd round picks.

 

I have always thought that Brogdon is an injury waiting to happen. I just kept knocking on wood. I hope he does well, just not against the Bucks.

[HiAndTight]

I really, really wanted Brogdon back, but let's remember they completely outclassed an extremely talented Celtics' team without him.

 

Also, I completely agree that Middleton is overpaid, but there's a bigger picture here -- this is Giannis' team. And if Middleton is an essential cog in keeping Giannis happy and signing a supermax here, then he's worth every penny.

 

 

I'm having trouble. They outclassed that team because its superstar had the worst shooting stretch of his entire career.

 

I really thought that if they were going to basically sign and trade him, they'd get at least a role player back in addition to the picks.

 

And ultimately they should have just signed him.

 

You lose him to a division rival, a team that was second behind you last year(I know, a ways back, but they're getting better) and you get some bad picks? Is it too much for me to hope that they go to Detroit again and people start throwing beers at them? At least make those picks mean something!

 

I know "Metta world peace" isn't there, but still, get 'em in the stands and suspend half their team for the season.

 

Though I would suspect the pick is if not lottery protected, top 5-8, 10 protected. It's not likely an unprotected pick.

[BillScottCanRake]

Per @albertnahmad

 

If the Bucks (i) waive-and-stretch John Leuer, (ii) stretch George Hill’s $1.0M cap hit, and (iii) rescind Malcom Brogdon’s $3.0M qualifying offer, but keep his Non-Bird rights at $1.6M, to S&T him, they can create $9.2M of cap room. Which could result in 3/$29M for George Hill.

[HiAndTight]

 

Not sure how they have the cap space to give him that. Did they waive/stretch someone?

 

I don't know man, you're the one who's the expert on the CBA.

 

I'm not on Twitter. Was just asking if someone had news of a waive/stretch that I didn't know about yet.

 

 

Guess they lost the ONE player you wanted them to lose. The player you actually said it was an emergency that they traded.

 

I'm annoyed as shite that the Bucks let Brogdon walk, yet somehow, this can be even more annoying when you've literally argued for every different point and STILL somehow say "I told you guys exactly what would happen."

 

 

I have changed my mind about which one player I would prefer to lose if they have to lose one, and I have a right to since a lot has changed since that Brogdon post from mid-season. But I've been consistent about only wanting to lose one. In January, that was Brogdon. When they got Mirotic and then when I realized Khris was going to get a lot more than I thought he was worth, I changed to him because there's no way in hell he's worth a max.

 

But I have consistently said I wanted to keep as many guys as possible, and they could have kept Brogdon and Mirotic for the cost of Khris. Two for the price of one trumps all differences between the players they risked losing, but at least Mirotic and Brogdon aren't as important as Hill to next season's record IMO. And the kept the 3 who I think help the record the most (Lopez, Hill, and Khris in some order). Could have kept 4 though.

 

 

Ok, the guy who was worse in pretty much every single way than Brogdon is more important as a backup in the regular season than Brogdon who started and Mirotic who would have been a key reserve.

 

You are right. You are right about everything despite all evidence to the contrary.

 

 

You're literally making me hate George Hill who seems like a very nice and decent human being with your strange obsession and exaggeration with how good he still is.

 

He was good in the playoffs. He was just awful during the season with the Bucks. I posted the numbers, but anyone can look at them. Not sure how he's more important to their record, but whatever, OK. He's the most important player in the league.

 

Now with him, we may challenge the 73 win mark.

[Jenkins5]

Horst won GM of the year & in his short time like Stearns has earned my trust. I have feeling there will be some more moves coming VIA trade to reshape roster a little bit. Horst has 3 more picks to use and he has shown willingness to move them.

 

Think it is critical for DJ & Sterling to take another step forward this season. Both have shown real growth. Donte & Frazier need to make a year two leap.

 

As of now:

Lopez

Wilson

Giannis

Middleton

Bledsoe

 

Bench

Hill, Ersan, Pat

 

Sterling & Frazier

 

Need to find way to deepen that depth. Pau Gasol is old but has repeatedly stated he’d love to be back with Milwaukee. For cheap vet deal, think he could be great in that Jason Terry player/coach role. He won’t give you 20+ minutes a game but could help off bench & give another big