Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)

[OldHeidelberg]

 

The reason the Lakers can do that is because they pretty much have 3 players on their entire roster.

 

Yeah but I mean before they extended Bledsoe the Bucks pretty much had only Giannis signed for next season. Could they have traded for AD and signed KD?

 

 

No, they didn't have nearly enough assets to trade for AD and even if they did, FA's aren't going to want to play in Milwaukee.

 

I meant more from a salary cap angle but I could google it myself and figure it out if I cared enough. I just find it weird that these super teams can be built at all with a cap, I get the Bird exception for your own players but it seems like teams like GS should already be maxed out and already out of any potential KD deal but it still happens.

[HiAndTight]

Brogdon got 4/85

 

That is way too much for Brogdon.

 

 

I think 4/80 was a good price for Brogdon and I was hoping it'd be less. So that's plenty close enough.

 

I am glad they at least got something for him, but they couldn't get a player thrown in?

 

Most of these guys are getting overpaid. I wanted us to try and pick up draft picks, but...the 23rd pick in the draft and a couple 2nd's wasn't worth a 50/40/90 player who could defend.

 

 

I guess I'll wait and see what they have planned, but this is a kick in the gut.

[monkeyman343434]

RE GS and signing Durant:

 

It's because they have a good front office, had cheap deals on their core that was already in tact, and the cap moved up enough where they were able to create room for another max deal

[HiAndTight]

 

I meant more from a salary cap angle but I could google it myself and figure it out if I cared enough. I just find it weird that these super teams can be built at all with a cap, I get the Bird exception for your own players but it seems like teams like GS should already be maxed out and already out of any potential KD deal but it still happens.

 

 

Golden State was in a unique position. Curry had taken a cheaper deal because of his ankle and for some reason, Klay had as well. That's rare. What's not all that rare is a team just blowing up their roster for a couple of years so they can fit in a couple of max level players.

 

 

What's REALLY annoying is that the way for the Bucks to build is by drafting(Brogdon) getting lucky(Giannis) and making smart trades(Middleton).

 

And usually not overpaying for players, but this isn't usually.

 

 

I literally had about 10 paragraphs on the teams that Brogdon COULD sign with and the potential players that could come back in a deal and the team that was the absolute WORST fit was the Pacers.I went to post it and got an error sign. Maybe that was an omen. But looking at it now would just be depressing. They had nobody who was cheap and talented enough to make it worthwhile and I figured at best we'd get back McDermott and picks.

 

And we didn't even get that.

 

 

They better be pretty sure that Giannis is gonna stick around next year if they're worried about the repeaters tax. Otherwise they just traded away a very good two way player who they just drafted(and who was an incredible leader) for a couple of picks that aren't that valuable.

[coolhandluke121]

 

They better be pretty @#$$# sure that Giannis is gonna stick around next year if they're worried about the repeaters tax. Otherwise they just traded away a very good two way player who they just drafted(and who was an incredible leader) for a couple of picks that aren't that valuable.

 

They're just worried about their profits. Milk the city for an arena and then leave them high and dry with a half-assed attempt at keeping a legit contender together.

[OldHeidelberg]

 

They better be pretty @#$$# sure that Giannis is gonna stick around next year if they're worried about the repeaters tax. Otherwise they just traded away a very good two way player who they just drafted(and who was an incredible leader) for a couple of picks that aren't that valuable.

 

They're just worried about their profits. Milk the city for an arena and then leave them high and dry with a half-assed attempt at keeping a legit contender together.

 

Yeah pretty lame that we just built them an arena and they have a superstar and they are still being cheap. I thought maybe building the brand up and winning titles would be worth it in the long run but i guess not.

[HiAndTight]

 

Right, so they could keep everyone else. Not so they could stay under the tax threshold completely. It's a disgrace.

 

 

I agree it's a bad move(disgrace I withhold for something a bit more serious). But no, you thought he was overrated and you didn't want them to pay the luxury tax 4 years in a row.

I also think he's got a bit of an Allen Crabbe/Tyler Johnson "darling" reputation that he won't live up to. All those guys had pretty good numbers in a very favorable situation, and look at the RFA offers they got. Brogdon could get even more. Personally I think if he gets that, then he owes 75% of it to Bledsoe, Middleton, Bud, and especially Giannis. It's kind of a like a 4th wide receiver on a lethal offense putting up numbers comparable to a normal #2 guy because defenses don't pay much attention to him and the offense is designed to spread the ball around. When he plays as the #2 or #3 guy, he just dribbles too much trying to get around his guy and the offense stagnates.

 

Lastly, if he does get some kind of ridiculous 4-year offer sheet, you're in a bind. I want them to pay the luxury tax next year, but not for 4 straight years. That greatly affects their ability to use salary exception slots. I really don't think they'd miss him that much. His RPM provides statistical evidence that the team doesn't struggle when he goes to the bench.

[HiAndTight]

I want to know what your "walk away number" that's been reported with Brogdon for the last few weeks now was?

 

 

Was it 20 million? Or did they value him lower? was it 15 million?

 

Because if they just set a hard number and then said they're walking away if they don't reach THAT number, that's nonsense.

 

 

I'm happy they overpaid to keep Middleton, but baffling why you wouldn't want to keep Brogdon. 21.25 million per year and the Bucks HAD to expect at least 18.

[Jenkins5]

Bucks simply have a tough salary cap situation. Middleton was going to get the money somewhere so it’s not overpaying if that is going rate for a player. You are worth what the market will give you. Middleton, Lopez, Bledsoe all getting locked up are all important & hard to cry going cheap just because we didn’t plunge into the tax. This isn’t baseball, there is a lot of strategy involved working around the cap.

 

Bucks were a darn good team pre Mirotic & Hill. They were darn good team minus Brogdon & Mirotic down the stretch. I hated losing Brogdon, I have said all season he is 2nd most important guy but 21 million a year with our cap moving forward just wasn’t realistic. Bucks get 3 picks that I suspect we will package & use as maneuvering chips.

 

Are we better? No. Are we worse, a little depending on next moves. Hopefully Hill comes back. He is 34 & should be hunting championships vs money at this point in career. Knicks, Bulls are two of Top other rumors for Hill and neither is winning anytime in future.

 

Sixers got worse.... they were hit harder than Bucks even with max deal to Harris (complaining about Middleton max deal? Rather be forced to pay Tobias even more?)

 

Raptors will be worse.... Leonard is not replaceable for them

 

Nets clearly got better if KD can play at all next season. Kyrie isn’t a leader & don’t think he is that much of upgrade over what Russell was becoming. Jordan can rebound & dunk but is removed from prime.

 

Celtics think got upgrade with Kemba over Irving just from leadership alone. But if Hortford is gone... think that is a lose.

 

Overall, the East as a whole hasn’t done much to get better outside of Nets. Even with Mirotic, Brogdon, maybe Hill gone. Don’t think we lose much ground as a leader in the east.

[nodakfan17]

If Brogdon was 1/2 the price of Middleton, why wouldn’t they keep Brogdon and use the other $15 million / year to build out the roster?

[nodakfan17]

 

They better be pretty @#$$# sure that Giannis is gonna stick around next year if they're worried about the repeaters tax. Otherwise they just traded away a very good two way player who they just drafted(and who was an incredible leader) for a couple of picks that aren't that valuable.

 

They're just worried about their profits. Milk the city for an arena and then leave them high and dry with a half-assed attempt at keeping a legit contender together.

The whole state is on the hook.

 

And the Packers couldn’t even get help from the state in 2000. That endeavor at least followed a championship and lead to another one.

[homer]

Tobias Harris signs w Philly for 5 years and $180 million. Huh?

[HiAndTight]

 

Yeah pretty lame that we just built them an arena and they have a superstar and they are still being cheap. I thought maybe building the brand up and winning titles would be worth it in the long run but i guess not.

 

 

I'm gonna choose to believe right now that the Bucks believe DDV is going to be a very good player.

 

 

That, and act excessively childish on twitter...becaus after all, that's what it's for, and tweet at the Bucks owners.

 

It's not something I've literally EVER done...like to anyone. But I feel like this is worth it.

 

Believing that DDV and Sterling Brown can be good players, trying to convince myself of that while also yelling at people who don't care what I have to say will make me feel a little better.

 

Man...I really wished I smoked pot right now. Something that could make me relax. Again, of the 10 teams that the Bucks COULD have done a sign and trade with, the team that had the LEAST intriguing young players(other than maybe Philly and that was unlikely) was Indy.

 

I spent hours thinking, "ok, If Brogdon gets a huge offer sheet and they don't match, they'll have to do a sign and trade and get back SOMEONE...AND a pick."

 

Please, the Jordan of Delaware be a good player. And even if you are, this is still nonsense. Brogdon is the exact type of player and person you want in your organization.

[HiAndTight]

 

They better be pretty @#$$# sure that Giannis is gonna stick around next year if they're worried about the repeaters tax. Otherwise they just traded away a very good two way player who they just drafted(and who was an incredible leader) for a couple of picks that aren't that valuable.

 

They're just worried about their profits. Milk the city for an arena and then leave them high and dry with a half-assed attempt at keeping a legit contender together.

The whole state is on the hook.

 

And the Packers couldn’t even get help from the state in 2000. That endeavor at least followed a championship and lead to another one.

 

 

I'm almost positive the Packers didn't TRY to get money from the state.

 

It's 200 million and the Bucks were seriously close to leaving. That's the least of my issues now.

 

 

I also really believe Horst thinks this is a better way to build the team. They could have just gone with Leuer at Center and not paid Lopez and traded away Erasan. They'd have spent the same amount of money.

 

 

Signing Lopez for 52 million the same day you get rid of Brogdon for 85 million tells me that your aim is to win 55-60 again in the regular season as Lopez is hit or miss matchup wise in any given playoff series. Brogdon is a good fit for ANY series.

 

 

So who do we have coming in that could reasonably improve beyond Giannis who somehow always finds a way.

 

Wilson-At best he's a Mirotic but a little better defensively

DDV-We saw nothing from him.

Brown-He was a good replacement while we were cruising into the playoffs.

 

That pretty much it? I don't think Pat C is gonna become a much better player. He's an effort guy.

 

 

 

Damn....now they might as well have just torn it all down and hoped a superstar wanted to play with Giannis.

[nodakfan17]

Tobias Harris signs w Philly for 5 years and $180 million. Huh?

And the Bucks traded him to rent JJ Redick for 1/2 a season.

[HiAndTight]

Tobias Harris signs w Philly for 5 years and $180 million. Huh?

 

 

Why....why do you even have to bring up the guy we traded away at 19 years old for a player in JJ Reddick who didn't want to play here and who's now a max level player?

 

 

By the way, I'd be totally stunned if the Sixers did this and didn't offer Butler the max.

[coolhandluke121]

 

Right, so they could keep everyone else. Not so they could stay under the tax threshold completely. It's a disgrace.

 

 

I agree it's a bad move(disgrace I withhold for something a bit more serious). But no, you thought he was overrated and you didn't want them to pay the luxury tax 4 years in a row.

I also think he's got a bit of an Allen Crabbe/Tyler Johnson "darling" reputation that he won't live up to. All those guys had pretty good numbers in a very favorable situation, and look at the RFA offers they got. Brogdon could get even more. Personally I think if he gets that, then he owes 75% of it to Bledsoe, Middleton, Bud, and especially Giannis. It's kind of a like a 4th wide receiver on a lethal offense putting up numbers comparable to a normal #2 guy because defenses don't pay much attention to him and the offense is designed to spread the ball around. When he plays as the #2 or #3 guy, he just dribbles too much trying to get around his guy and the offense stagnates.

 

Lastly, if he does get some kind of ridiculous 4-year offer sheet, you're in a bind. I want them to pay the luxury tax next year, but not for 4 straight years. That greatly affects their ability to use salary exception slots. I really don't think they'd miss him that much. His RPM provides statistical evidence that the team doesn't struggle when he goes to the bench.

 

Again, I wanted to trade him so they could keep everyone else. I didn't advocate trading Brogdon so they could save 10's of millions of dollars, which is what they've done. For god's sake that's exactly what I've openly feared all along. What's so hard to understand about that? I've always advocated for keeping as many of their guys as possible and paying the tax.

 

At mid-season, my first choice was to trade Brogdon so they could keep everyone else. That switched to Khris when it became clear he would get a near-max deal, but the point is that I just want them to keep as many players as possible and not be cheap. And they've been significantly cheaper than even I feared they would be.

 

And my plan to let Khris walk would have had them back under the tax threshold in just one year.

[nodakfan17]

Tobias Harris signs w Philly for 5 years and $180 million. Huh?

 

 

Why....why do you even have to bring up the guy we traded away at 19 years old for a player in JJ Reddick who didn't want to play here and who's now a max level player?

 

 

By the way, I'd be totally stunned if the Sixers did this and didn't offer Butler the max.

 

As long as we’re having a pity party, let’s not forget they still owe Larry Sanders $1.8 million next year.

[HiAndTight]

Tobias Harris signs w Philly for 5 years and $180 million. Huh?

And the Bucks traded him to rent JJ Redick for 1/2 a season.

 

 

Beat me to it. But hey, who could have thought that the 6'9, athletic and skilled 19 year old could have developed into agood player or that the Bucks weren't a title contender with Reddick...who again, didn't want to be there as their 2nd best player.

[Jenkins5]

If Brogdon was 1/2 the price of Middleton, why wouldn’t they keep Brogdon and use the other $15 million / year to build out the roster?

 

Middleton is a year older & a high volume scorer that Brogdon simply is not. I love Malcolm & he is as efficient of a role player as you will find but defense Middleton is about equal or better & he is the volume shooter you need to wing for Giannis & Bledsoe. He is their poor man Klay Thompson. Bucks will miss that far more.

 

In this market, not sure what you’d even really get for that extra 15. A player like Brogdon is getting 21.5 million on the market. Vucevic got 25 a year. Bogdanovic 18 million, Rozier got 19 million, Terrence Ross got 17.5 million.

 

Reddick got a mere 13 million along with Thad Young.

[homer]

 

Right, so they could keep everyone else. Not so they could stay under the tax threshold completely. It's a disgrace.

 

 

I agree it's a bad move(disgrace I withhold for something a bit more serious). But no, you thought he was overrated and you didn't want them to pay the luxury tax 4 years in a row.

I also think he's got a bit of an Allen Crabbe/Tyler Johnson "darling" reputation that he won't live up to. All those guys had pretty good numbers in a very favorable situation, and look at the RFA offers they got. Brogdon could get even more. Personally I think if he gets that, then he owes 75% of it to Bledsoe, Middleton, Bud, and especially Giannis. It's kind of a like a 4th wide receiver on a lethal offense putting up numbers comparable to a normal #2 guy because defenses don't pay much attention to him and the offense is designed to spread the ball around. When he plays as the #2 or #3 guy, he just dribbles too much trying to get around his guy and the offense stagnates.

 

Lastly, if he does get some kind of ridiculous 4-year offer sheet, you're in a bind. I want them to pay the luxury tax next year, but not for 4 straight years. That greatly affects their ability to use salary exception slots. I really don't think they'd miss him that much. His RPM provides statistical evidence that the team doesn't struggle when he goes to the bench.

 

Again, I wanted to trade him so they could keep everyone else. I didn't advocate trading Brogdon so they could save 10's of millions of dollars, which is what they've done. For god's sake that's exactly what I've openly feared all along. What's so hard to understand about that? I've always advocated for keeping as many of their guys as possible and paying the tax.

 

At mid-season, my first choice was to trade Brogdon so they could keep everyone else. That switched to Khris when it became clear he would get a near-max deal, but the point is that I just want them to keep as many players as possible and not be cheap. And they've been significantly cheaper than even I feared they would be.

 

And my plan to let Khris walk would have had them back under the tax threshold in just one year.

 

 

You were willing to give him 4/140.

[homer]

What is a TPE and do the Bucks have one? Also, what is a TPE

[HiAndTight]

 

Right, so they could keep everyone else. Not so they could stay under the tax threshold completely. It's a disgrace.

 

 

I agree it's a bad move(disgrace I withhold for something a bit more serious). But no, you thought he was overrated and you didn't want them to pay the luxury tax 4 years in a row.

I also think he's got a bit of an Allen Crabbe/Tyler Johnson "darling" reputation that he won't live up to. All those guys had pretty good numbers in a very favorable situation, and look at the RFA offers they got. Brogdon could get even more. Personally I think if he gets that, then he owes 75% of it to Bledsoe, Middleton, Bud, and especially Giannis. It's kind of a like a 4th wide receiver on a lethal offense putting up numbers comparable to a normal #2 guy because defenses don't pay much attention to him and the offense is designed to spread the ball around. When he plays as the #2 or #3 guy, he just dribbles too much trying to get around his guy and the offense stagnates.

 

Lastly, if he does get some kind of ridiculous 4-year offer sheet, you're in a bind. I want them to pay the luxury tax next year, but not for 4 straight years. That greatly affects their ability to use salary exception slots. I really don't think they'd miss him that much. His RPM provides statistical evidence that the team doesn't struggle when he goes to the bench.

 

Again, I wanted to trade him so they could keep everyone else. I didn't advocate trading Brogdon so they could save 10's of millions of dollars, which is what they've done. For god's sake that's exactly what I've openly feared all along. What's so hard to understand about that? I've always advocated for keeping as many of their guys as possible and paying the tax.

 

At mid-season, my first choice was to trade Brogdon so they could keep everyone else. That switched to Khris when it became clear he would get a near-max deal, but the point is that I just want them to keep as many players as possible and not be cheap. And they've been significantly cheaper than even I feared they would be.

 

And my plan to let Khris walk would have had them back under the tax threshold in just one year.

 

 

 

 

They are keeping everyone else.

 

 

I get that they're looking ahead to a MASSIVE contract that Giannis is going to get, but I don't think Middleton or Brogdon were signed to unreasonable deals at all. And if you wanted to trade him, trade him to Dallas who had a couple nice young players, or the Suns.

 

Joe Jackson, Jim Jackson, Ty Warren(who I think is on Indy now actually).

 

 

DDV better just be amazing this year.

[coolhandluke121]

 

 

You were willing to give him 4/140.

 

I was not. Why do you keep saying that? You asked me if I still "want to give him the max" and I corrected you. All along I said he was worth 4/$100m and I might go as high as 4/$120. I'm not going to go find it but is it really that hard to believe you confused me with someone else? Saying it again doesn't make it true. I never said it.

 

Really unbecoming of a mod to twice assert that someone said something they never said.

[HiAndTight]

What is a TPE and do the Bucks have one? Also, what is a TPE

 

 

 

Traded player exception and the Bucks have a very big one. I think it's pretty straight forward, they can take back money in a trade...as well as a number of other things.