Bucks off-season thread (non-draft)

[OldHeidelberg]

How come it seems every other team is in play for all the top FA's but the Bucks have to settle for overpaying their own? Days like today are why I have so much trouble getting interested even with the Bucks contending.

[HiAndTight]

So basically, the Bucks choice was 1) have very little cap space and let Mids walk or 2) have very little cap space and sign Middleton?

 

 

 

YES!!!!!! That's exactly it.

[nodakfan17]

How come it seems every other team is in play for all the top FA's but the Bucks have to settle for overpaying their own? Days like today are why I have so much trouble getting interested even with the Bucks contending.

I thought the same thing and feel the same way.

[HiAndTight]

How come it seems every other team is in play for all the top FA's but the Bucks have to settle for overpaying their own? Days like today are why I have so much trouble getting interested even with the Bucks contending.

 

 

It's not every other team. It's pretty much the Nets, the Clipers, and the Lakers.

 

And the Bucks have a 24 year old Giannis. If you have trouble getting interested in the Bucks with Giannis, I just don't think this is the right sport for you.

 

It'd be like being an Angels fan(but where a single player made a FAR bigger difference).

 

Also, those teams had to tank for the most part and give players away to create salary cap space.

 

 

And we didn't really overpay for Middleton. I mean, I dont think he's a max level player, but other teams were almost certainly going to offer him a max deal.

 

So it could have been a day when other teams were getting better and signing Free Agents and we were losing two of our FA's to other teams.

 

Instead, it's a day we signed Lopez and signed Middleton(though not officially just yet).

[monkeyman343434]

and the Bucks go cheap, trading away Brogdon. this team is not a ECF contender. why give Middleton essentially a max deal if you aren't going to contend?

[coolhandluke121]

I think a lot of the appeal with Hill and the $18M contract, is that the $18M contract is a very valuable asset, teams are always trying to trade for expiring contracts for various reasons, and it would help match up a trade for a disgruntled superstar if such a scenario would appear (this typically happens multiple times a year, either during the season or in the offseason). It's not JUST paying Hill $18M which obviously he's not worth at this point. It's a combo of he fills a great role on the team - which is why the team wants to bring him back, and if the situation presented itself, that expiring contract could/would have been extremely valuable.

 

 

Well, that's not at all been the discussion on here. The argument on here has been that he's worth that and that the Bucks owners were being cheap.

 

 

So they're trading Brogdon for picks, what do you think of my concerns about being cheap now? It's exactly what I said it would be - act like they have to let a bunch of guys go to prioritize Lopez and Khris when I laid out exactly how to keep everyone except Khris.

 

Khris is the 2nd-best player on the team like Canada is the second most powerful country in North America. Who cares, he's not better than Brogdon, Mirotic, and Hill combined. This is nuts. I'd laugh at how this all went down exactly like I warned everyone if it wasn't so sad.

 

At least they kept all their star players though.

 

Oh, and by January Hill would be regarded as a better value at $18m* than roughly half the players who sign for 8-figure salaries this summer. That happens every damn time teams go on a spending spree like this. Buyer's remorse will set in the very next day for many teams and they'll wish they could trade their guys for a George Hill on an expiring deal.

 

*It's really only $17m since they have to pay him $1m either way.

[OldHeidelberg]

How come it seems every other team is in play for all the top FA's but the Bucks have to settle for overpaying their own? Days like today are why I have so much trouble getting interested even with the Bucks contending.

 

 

It's not every other team. It's pretty much the Nets, the Clipers, and the Lakers.

 

And the Bucks have a 24 year old Giannis. If you have trouble getting interested in the Bucks with Giannis, I just don't think this is the right sport for you.

It'd be like being an Angels fan(but where a single player made a FAR bigger difference).

 

Also, those teams had to tank for the most part and give players away to create salary cap space.

 

 

And we didn't really overpay for Middleton. I mean, I dont think he's a max level player, but other teams were almost certainly going to offer him a max deal.

 

So it could have been a day when other teams were getting better and signing Free Agents and we were losing two of our FA's to other teams.

 

Instead, it's a day we signed Lopez and signed Middleton(though not officially just yet).

 

Replace "sport" with "league" and I think you are dead nuts with that comment, I love college buckets. I just don't see how the Lakers can sign Lebron, trade for AD, and STILL clear cap room for another premier guy if they can convince him to come while the Bucks are (from what I understand) prevented from even bidding on those top guys due to the cap.

[nodakfan17]

and the Bucks go cheap, trading away Brogdon. this team is not a ECF contender. why give Middleton essentially a max deal if you aren't going to contend?

At least they got something.

[HiAndTight]

How come it seems every other team is in play for all the top FA's but the Bucks have to settle for overpaying their own? Days like today are why I have so much trouble getting interested even with the Bucks contending.

I thought the same thing and feel the same way.

 

 

The Nets signed a guy who will be 33 when he signed next, and two of his best friends.

 

The Celtics replaced one of those guys with another guy who will be overpaid if Middleton is overpaid.

 

And the Pelicans signed JJ Reddick.

 

I'm not seeing EVERY other team in play for all the top FA's. In fact, there are pretty much 4 teams that were in play for the top FA's, of which, Middleton was one of them.

 

But this is the guy we're upset about bringing back to Milwaukee

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2019/5/12/18616078/khris-middleton-milwaukee-bucks-perfect-teammate-giannis-antetokounmpo

https://nagalandjackpotteer.com/2019/05/12/khris-middleton-is-the-teammate-every-superstar-needs/

 

 

I FEEL like no matter what the owners would do, people wouldn't like it. They have put their money where their mouth is. Again, as Homer as reiterated, as Luke has said numerous times on other threads, as everyone else has said, there was no other player we would have been able to sign.

 

It was our own guys or nobody for the most part.

 

Everyone wanted the Bucks to run it back. Bring back the group that was up on the champs 2-0 and a play away from effectively ending the series with Toronto. Now they do that and we're upset about the Nets signing older guys who are hurt and our owners overpaying players? I....I don't get it.

[OldHeidelberg]

 

The Nets signed a guy who will be 33 when he signed next, and two of his best friends.

 

The Celtics replaced one of those guys with another guy who will be overpaid if Middleton is overpaid.

 

And the Pelicans signed JJ Reddick.

 

I'm not seeing EVERY other team in play for all the top FA's. In fact, there are pretty much 4 teams that were in play for the top FA's, of which, Middleton was one of them.

 

But this is the guy we're upset about bringing back to Milwaukee

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2019/5/12/18616078/khris-middleton-milwaukee-bucks-perfect-teammate-giannis-antetokounmpo

https://nagalandjackpotteer.com/2019/05/12/khris-middleton-is-the-teammate-every-superstar-needs/

 

 

I FEEL like no matter what the owners would do, people wouldn't like it. They have put their money where their mouth is. Again, as Homer as reiterated, as Luke has said numerous times on other threads, as everyone else has said, there was no other player we would have been able to sign.

 

It was our own guys or nobody for the most part.

 

Everyone wanted the Bucks to run it back. Bring back the group that was up on the champs 2-0 and a play away from effectively ending the series with Toronto. Now they do that and we're upset about the Nets signing older guys who are hurt and our owners overpaying players? I....I don't get it.

 

They lost Brogdon and Mirotic, are they better or even as good today than that playoff team last season?

[HiAndTight]

and the Bucks go cheap, trading away Brogdon. this team is not a ECF contender. why give Middleton essentially a max deal if you aren't going to contend?

 

 

That I dont know. I haven't seen this yet. I swear I actually had a whole list of teams and players that I'd hoped the Bucks would work out a sign and trade for Brogdon if he hit their "walk away" price.

 

But I haven't seen who they're trading him for yet or what he is signing for.

[OldHeidelberg]

and the Bucks go cheap, trading away Brogdon. this team is not a ECF contender. why give Middleton essentially a max deal if you aren't going to contend?

 

 

That I dont know. I haven't seen this yet. I swear I actually had a whole list of teams and players that I'd hoped the Bucks would work out a sign and trade for Brogdon if he hit their "walk away" price.

 

But I haven't seen who they're trading him for yet or what he is signing for.

 

A first and 2 seconds from Indy

[coolhandluke121]

 

 

I FEEL like no matter what the owners would do, people wouldn't like it. They have put their money where their mouth is. Again, as Homer as reiterated, as Luke has said numerous times on other threads, as everyone else has said, there was no other player we would have been able to sign.

 

It was our own guys or nobody for the most part.

 

Everyone wanted the Bucks to run it back. Bring back the group that was up on the champs 2-0 and a play away from effectively ending the series with Toronto. Now they do that and we're upset about the Nets signing older guys who are hurt and our owners overpaying players? I....I don't get it.

 

They went extremely cheap. Far cheaper than even I could have feared. They traded Brogdon for picks. They didn't bring everyone back. They lost Mirotic, Brogdon, and probably Hill.

 

And they're probably not even going to pay the damn tax! Don't have Bird Rights to go far enough over the cap. Just think about that. They won't even pay the luxury tax to keep a 60-win team together for a chance at their first title in 50 years! It's a disgrace. Khris's raise + the room MLE should put them several million below the tax threshold. How convenient! Disgusting.

 

I'm telling you, waiving Hill was not necessary. It was the red flag that they were going to be cheap.

[HiAndTight]

How come it seems every other team is in play for all the top FA's but the Bucks have to settle for overpaying their own? Days like today are why I have so much trouble getting interested even with the Bucks contending.

 

 

It's not every other team. It's pretty much the Nets, the Clipers, and the Lakers.

 

And the Bucks have a 24 year old Giannis. If you have trouble getting interested in the Bucks with Giannis, I just don't think this is the right sport for you.

It'd be like being an Angels fan(but where a single player made a FAR bigger difference).

 

Also, those teams had to tank for the most part and give players away to create salary cap space.

 

 

And we didn't really overpay for Middleton. I mean, I dont think he's a max level player, but other teams were almost certainly going to offer him a max deal.

 

So it could have been a day when other teams were getting better and signing Free Agents and we were losing two of our FA's to other teams.

 

Instead, it's a day we signed Lopez and signed Middleton(though not officially just yet).

 

Replace "sport" with "league" and I think you are dead nuts with that comment, I love college buckets. I just don't see how the Lakers can sign Lebron, trade for AD, and STILL clear cap room for another premier guy if they can convince him to come while the Bucks are (from what I understand) prevented from even bidding on those top guys due to the cap.

 

 

The reason the Lakers can do that is because they pretty much have 3 players on their entire roster.

[nodakfan17]

Overpaying for your own players was the deadly sin of the Larry Harris era (among many other missteps). I know Larry Harris didn’t have Giannis, but my goodness does this ever feel familiar.

[HiAndTight]

 

The Nets signed a guy who will be 33 when he signed next, and two of his best friends.

 

The Celtics replaced one of those guys with another guy who will be overpaid if Middleton is overpaid.

 

And the Pelicans signed JJ Reddick.

 

I'm not seeing EVERY other team in play for all the top FA's. In fact, there are pretty much 4 teams that were in play for the top FA's, of which, Middleton was one of them.

 

But this is the guy we're upset about bringing back to Milwaukee

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2019/5/12/18616078/khris-middleton-milwaukee-bucks-perfect-teammate-giannis-antetokounmpo

https://nagalandjackpotteer.com/2019/05/12/khris-middleton-is-the-teammate-every-superstar-needs/

 

 

I FEEL like no matter what the owners would do, people wouldn't like it. They have put their money where their mouth is. Again, as Homer as reiterated, as Luke has said numerous times on other threads, as everyone else has said, there was no other player we would have been able to sign.

 

It was our own guys or nobody for the most part.

 

Everyone wanted the Bucks to run it back. Bring back the group that was up on the champs 2-0 and a play away from effectively ending the series with Toronto. Now they do that and we're upset about the Nets signing older guys who are hurt and our owners overpaying players? I....I don't get it.

 

They lost Brogdon and Mirotic, are they better or even as good today than that playoff team last season?

 

 

 

They're definitely worse. Because of Brogdon, not Mirotic. Mirotic was likely gone anyway.

[coolhandluke121]

 

They lost Brogdon and Mirotic, are they better or even as good today than that playoff team last season?

 

Probably Hill too. Think he has to settle for a room MLE in this market? GM's can be really dumb in overrating certain players and underrating others - especially great defenders like Hill - but I would be surprised if he's back.

 

So no, they're not as good as the playoff team last year. Not even close.

[HiAndTight]

 

 

I FEEL like no matter what the owners would do, people wouldn't like it. They have put their money where their mouth is. Again, as Homer as reiterated, as Luke has said numerous times on other threads, as everyone else has said, there was no other player we would have been able to sign.

 

It was our own guys or nobody for the most part.

 

Everyone wanted the Bucks to run it back. Bring back the group that was up on the champs 2-0 and a play away from effectively ending the series with Toronto. Now they do that and we're upset about the Nets signing older guys who are hurt and our owners overpaying players? I....I don't get it.

 

They went extremely cheap. Far cheaper than even I could have feared. They traded Brogdon for picks. They didn't bring everyone back. They lost Mirotic, Brogdon, and probably Hill.

 

And they're probably not even going to pay the damn tax! Don't have Bird Rights to go far enough over the cap. Just think about that. They won't even pay the luxury tax to keep a 60-win team together for a chance at their first title in 50 years! It's a disgrace. Khris's raise + the room MLE should put them several million below the tax threshold. How convenient! Disgusting.

 

I'm telling you, waiving Hill was not necessary. It was the red flag that they were going to be cheap.

 

 

Dude, Hill has NOTHING to do with this. No team in the NBA was going to pay Hill that. Hill has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with it.

 

And you basically were begging the Bucks to do this earlier this season. You said it was an emergency to get rid of Brogdon?

[OldHeidelberg]

 

The reason the Lakers can do that is because they pretty much have 3 players on their entire roster.

 

Yeah but I mean before they extended Bledsoe the Bucks pretty much had only Giannis signed for next season. Could they have traded for AD and signed KD?

[HiAndTight]

and the Bucks go cheap, trading away Brogdon. this team is not a ECF contender. why give Middleton essentially a max deal if you aren't going to contend?

 

 

That I dont know. I haven't seen this yet. I swear I actually had a whole list of teams and players that I'd hoped the Bucks would work out a sign and trade for Brogdon if he hit their "walk away" price.

 

But I haven't seen who they're trading him for yet or what he is signing for.

 

A first and 2 seconds from Indy

 

 

That stings. I literally went through all the teams that were rumored to be interested in Brogdon today in a post and said I'd hope we'd at LEAST match any offer for him and then do a sign and trade.

 

I think with Indy, the best I could come up with was McDermott and draft picks.

 

 

Damn though. This is a big blow. This has literally NOTHING to do with George Hill no matter what anyone says, but it's really annoying.

 

 

They'd have been better off bringing back Brogdon and Middleton and letting Lopez walk.

[homer]

Brogdon got 4/85

[HiAndTight]

 

The reason the Lakers can do that is because they pretty much have 3 players on their entire roster.

 

Yeah but I mean before they extended Bledsoe the Bucks pretty much had only Giannis signed for next season. Could they have traded for AD and signed KD?

 

 

No, they didn't have nearly enough assets to trade for AD and even if they did, FA's aren't going to want to play in Milwaukee.

[nate82]

Brogdon got 4/85

 

That is way too much for Brogdon.

[HiAndTight]

 

They lost Brogdon and Mirotic, are they better or even as good today than that playoff team last season?

 

Probably Hill too. Think he has to settle for a room MLE in this market? GM's can be really dumb in overrating certain players and underrating others - especially great defenders like Hill - but I would be surprised if he's back.

 

So no, they're not as good as the playoff team last year. Not even close.

 

 

You realize this is almost EXACTLY what you said the Bucks SHOULD do with Brogdon, right? You talked about how he didn't deserve to get paid, but he'd get overpaid as a RFA and that the Bucks should trade him so they aren't over the cap 4 years in a row and that he was so out of shape and slow that it was extremely important to trade him?

 

 

You ALSO realize....George Hill has NOTHING to do with this. He's a backup 34 year old PG. He's not the type of player teams are using their salary cap space on.

[coolhandluke121]

 

 

I FEEL like no matter what the owners would do, people wouldn't like it. They have put their money where their mouth is. Again, as Homer as reiterated, as Luke has said numerous times on other threads, as everyone else has said, there was no other player we would have been able to sign.

 

It was our own guys or nobody for the most part.

 

Everyone wanted the Bucks to run it back. Bring back the group that was up on the champs 2-0 and a play away from effectively ending the series with Toronto. Now they do that and we're upset about the Nets signing older guys who are hurt and our owners overpaying players? I....I don't get it.

 

They went extremely cheap. Far cheaper than even I could have feared. They traded Brogdon for picks. They didn't bring everyone back. They lost Mirotic, Brogdon, and probably Hill.

 

And they're probably not even going to pay the damn tax! Don't have Bird Rights to go far enough over the cap. Just think about that. They won't even pay the luxury tax to keep a 60-win team together for a chance at their first title in 50 years! It's a disgrace. Khris's raise + the room MLE should put them several million below the tax threshold. How convenient! Disgusting.

 

I'm telling you, waiving Hill was not necessary. It was the red flag that they were going to be cheap.

 

 

Dude, Hill has NOTHING to do with this. No team in the NBA was going to pay Hill that. Hill has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with it.

 

And you basically were begging the Bucks to do this earlier this season. You said it was an emergency to get rid of Brogdon?

 

Right, so they could keep everyone else. Not so they could stay under the tax threshold completely. It's a disgrace.