So... (Let's talk other Central Division foes)

[Zad Fnark]

On this board, are the Cardinals still seen as much of a threat?

 

Their standings seem to be falling like a fat guy from a balcony, with the Pirates having caught up to them.

 

Their fan board (http://interact.stltoday.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=11) is nothing but an angst-ridden zoo, with most of them wanting the GM's head. Schildt is seen as little more than the GM's stooge. The forum members seem to spend their time turning on each other. Not the friendly, comfy place like here.

 

Are they done?

 

 

edited the vague title--pitchleague

[monkeyman343434]

They have too much talent and there are way too many games left for them to not be a threat the rest of the year.

[Brew crew 92]

They won’t win the central but they will be the road team in the wild card game vs the cubbies.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

They pull this crap constantly. This is a team that won a World Series going 83-78. You never sleep on the Cardinals until they're eliminated.

[ReverendBrewmeister]

They pull this crap constantly. This is a team that won a World Series going 83-78. You never sleep on the Cardinals until they're eliminated.

The Cardinals are like a horror movie antagonist. Only when that elimination notification in the standings appears is it “safe”.

[Zad Fnark]

Yeah, I guess you can't write them off just yet.

 

Good to see the Cubs dealing with Houston now.

[stoutdude04]

gatewayredbirds is a better forum for Cards talk, imo. Some knowledgeable posters over there.

[MrTPlush]

The Cardinals are a solid darkhorse, but I think they are more of an annoyance vs. a division contender. WC contender, sure, but I don't think they best both us and the Cubs.

[MadScientist]

They pull this crap constantly. This is a team that won a World Series going 83-78. You never sleep on the Cardinals until they're eliminated.

The Cardinals are like a horror movie antagonist. Only when that elimination notification in the standings appears is it “safe”.

 

At this point I'm only willing to wright off Miami, Baltimore, KC, and CHW.

 

The Cards Pythagorean is 28-24, the Brewers 29-26. The only reasons the Brewers are 3.5 games above the Cards are CC's in-game decisions and more aggressive shifting. The Cards aren't in any way out of it.

 

I won't trust them to go away even if they are 20 games out on August 1. They are worse than zombies.

[jjfanec]

I am really interested to see how the Cubs hold up this year. That rotation is starting to struggle and their bullpen isnt very good. In May Contreras, Hamels, and Darvish all have ERAs over 4 with a WHIP over 1.45, Lester's ERA is nice but other peripherals look ugly - 35 hits in 28 innings. They have very little depth starting beyond their top 5 unless you think Chatwood can be reliable - I dont see it - or Montgomery is the answer. Their problem is taking away either of them leaves their bullpen even more depleted.

 

The Brewers are much better constructed to withstand an injury with Nelson, Peralta, Burnes, Wilkerson, Houser, etc that they can start.

[Madhawk23]

You would have to think that age would eventually catch up with either Lester or Hamels this year, wouldn't you? Both are 35, and you would hope for some regression as the year goes on - especially with the amount of mileage on both of those arms. Right? I guess I'm hoping that's the case, because they definitely do not appear to have much starting pitching depth - outside of Chatwood and Montgomery.

 

What scares me the most with the Cubs though is with their offense. Bryant appears to be returing to form now and guys like Contreras and Heyward are having bounce back years. If that lineup hits up to their potential, there just aren't any easy outs 1-8.

 

Their pen has had some issues closing games, but I'm guessing Morrow will be back at some point, right? And, sounds like Strop is due back soon from the IL.

 

As much as I hate to say it, I think they are still the team to beat in the division, but I do think it'll probably go down to that final week again this year. Of course, all of this could change depending on what teams do at the trade deadline.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I mentioned it in a separate thread specific to playoff standings/discussion, but to me it's no surprise the Cubs are scuffling a bit in the pitching department during this stretch that has them playing everyday with no offdays. Their early season schedule helped them mask a few blowup starts with all the offdays sprinkled in without having to completely burn up their pen - but now those offdays are scarce and the strain of a thin bullpen with limited rotation solutions down on the farm is starting to show.

 

The Cubs' 0.5 game lead on the Brewers has everything to do with winning 6 of 7 against the Marlins and having an otherwise meh difficulty of opponents on their schedule to date. Heyward's bounce back year is actually already over with - he's really struggled of late. Contreras is off to a fantastic start offensively, and Rizzo/Bryant/Baez are also raking. They form a solid 4 hitters to build any lineup around - but the rest of their offense isn't anything particularly special.

 

The Cardinals will be there down the stretch - we haven't even gotten into summer yet when some of their bats tend to get rolling. I don't see them being a 90 win-plus team in a competitive NL, but they'll have meaningful games in late September.

 

The Pirates always annoy me because you never know if it'll be a year when the Brewers own them or get owned by them - seems like it's always feast or famine and it really doesn't have alot to do with perceived strength/weakness of each team in any given year. IMO the Brewers either win the division or potentially miss the playoffs depending on how they play the Pirates this season - because they have them a TON during the next couple months when the Brewers have the best chance to make alot of hay in the standings.

[KeithStone53151]

I'm still very concerned about the Cubs. The best chance for the Cubs to falter is in their rotation, but if not it definitely would have to be on their pitching side as their lineup is too solid/deep. I've predicted it for a couple years now even with the additions of Quintana/Darvish and it still hasn't happened. The bullpen has been a bit shaky behind the top couple options, but they'll probably add a very good arm at the deadline...maybe even Kimbrel, also maybe Morrow will be back. Their offense is very very good in the 2-5 spots, and they have plenty of guys capable of 725-750 ops to rotate into the other spots and keep the entire lineup dangerous. The Cubs are definitely the team to fear in the NL Central.

 

Agree with some above on the Cardinals. There's something about that team, they always manage to hang around. They are dangerous until they are eliminated.

 

Not super concerned with Cincy or Pitt. Definitely not easy wins by any stretch, but hard to imagine them making a run at the division. NL Central is super deep and it's going to be a dogfight to get out. I just hope the other divisions aren't easy to the point that the Brewers have a chance for the wildcard if we can't keep up with the Cubs.

[Brew crew 92]

I am really interested to see how the Cubs hold up this year. That rotation is starting to struggle and their bullpen isnt very good. In May Contreras, Hamels, and Darvish all have ERAs over 4 with a WHIP over 1.45, Lester's ERA is nice but other peripherals look ugly - 35 hits in 28 innings. They have very little depth starting beyond their top 5 unless you think Chatwood can be reliable - I dont see it - or Montgomery is the answer. Their problem is taking away either of them leaves their bullpen even more depleted.

 

The Brewers are much better constructed to withstand an injury with Nelson, Peralta, Burnes, Wilkerson, Houser, etc that they can start.

 

1-8 the cubbies have no peer in the central. 1-5 good but not great. Bullpen has improved and will get better with maples now establishing himself, Morrow expected back at some point and a deadline arm.

 

They have 2 major weaknesses imo:

 

1.) pitching depth or lack there of. Chatwood and Montgomery and then nothing, 7 deep, that will be tested. Bullpen, even with maples and chatwoods emergence still is not deep.

 

2.) Past prime pitchers in Lester Hamels Darvish Cichek that will regress or get injured at some point in time, I believe a couple will this year and that will keep them from overtaking the crew.

[nate82]

The Cardinals look like the Pirates last year kind of just hanging around. Maybe they will go on a streak in July and then think they are contenders and trade away their farm system to only fall out of the race by the end of August.

 

The biggest trade asset the Cardinals have is Ozuna but I am not sure if they will trade him even if they are out of it in July, the draft pick compensation maybe worth more than the prospects they would receive in return. Hard to pinpoint a team that will be looking for OF help.

[pacopete4]

This thread feels like a really bad decision.

[TURBO]

This thread feels like a really bad decision.

 

lol agreed.

 

We can never count them out, period. Even if they don't make the playoffs (which we can't ever say until they are officially eliminated) , they will still make it hard on us when we play them.

 

I fear the Cardinals and hate them way more than the Cubbies.

[Jopal78]

Honestly, the Cardinals are going nowhere unless their starting pitching evens out. Wacha and his 1.7 whip was moved to the pen. Dakota Hudson is at 1.63 with a strike out to walk ratio of 1.5:1 (that is almost Jamey Wright territory). Wainwright also had a decent April and followed it up with a poor May. Their offense and bullpen are good. If Andrew Miller could refind his 2016 form their pen would arguably be the most dominant in the league.

 

The Cubs lack shut down arms in their bullpen. Chatwood and Brach are average. Strop and Montgomery have been injured. Edwards was demoted earlier in the year. Cishek is the best they've got at the moment and they've run him out their in nearly half the games.

 

Hamels, Lester, Darvish and Quintana are capable of shutting any team down on any given night, and their inconsistencies to date have largely been offset by an elite hitting lineup. Even with Zobrist having left the team due to his divorce, their offense hasn't missed a beat.

 

I like the Brewers starting pitching better than the Cardinals, the Brewers pen better than the Cubs, the Cubs have a better offense than Milwaukee but the Brewers have a slight edge over St. Louis's hitters. I'd be wary of the Cardinals signing Keuchel and the Cubs signing Kimbrel immediately after the draft (while the Cubs are maxed out on their budget, since Zobrist left the team there's a question if he's been drawing his salary, if not that saved money would help pay for Kimbrel in '19). That would change the balance in the division as well.

 

The Pirates have too many injuries in their rotation currently to keep pace with the top 3. Their offense isn't good enough to catch up if they fall behind.

 

Conversely, the Reds pitching has been very good and their offense has been bad. That could change with Senzel up and Gennett coming back from injury; the real question for the Reds will be if they hang on to their players on expiring contracts in an effort to compete or trade: Puig, Gennett, Wood, Roark to further reload for 2020.

[Zad Fnark]

I think it's too bad the Brewers aren't playing them now instead of back in the first couple weeks.

[owbc]

The Cardinals have been unlucky and underperforming their expected W/L. I would expect improvement and not just because they are the Cardinals. The Brewers have been a bit lucky but it is right to give them credit for their SOS.

 

It will be interesting to see if the Reds can jump a couple teams in the standings. No easy wins in the NL Central this year.

 

Ultimately I think this comes down to the Aug-Sept stretch where the Brewers play a bunch of games against the Cubs and Cardinals. That's the time you want the Brewers playing their best baseball.

[dlk9s]

Everyone in the division is a threat. It's not like the Brewers have looked like world-beaters.

[young guns]

Pretty ugly last 10 for the central right now. Us and the Cubs 4-6 Pitt and stl 3-7 and Cincinnati being kings at 5-5.

[Zad Fnark]

I remember the good old days.

 

What was that streak where Pitt couldn't buy a win at Miller Park?

 

Lately they seem to bite anyone in NC Central, given the chance.