Moving Eric Thames

[cesser000]

I believe Stearns needs to get another first baseman by trade. Neither Aguilar or Thames is the answere.

Can Kimbrel play 1st?

[TURBO]

Yuni can!

[jerichoholicninja]

Kendrys Morales keeps getting passed around the league. He won't get anything in return but there are teams out there that would take Thames.

[bill hAll Star]

I think that IL stints + options (Shaw) will probably just have to carry us for 3 more months with Shaw, Thames, Aguilar. Once in September, we can obviously carry them all with this being the final year of the huge September rosters.

 

Odds are that the Thames option is declined and potentially one of the other two are non-tendered, but with Mous not being a certainty to come back, you want Shaw as a potential 3B stopgap next year if you think something is there. Depending on how the rest of that goes, you have the option of Shaw, Thames, or Aguilar all for similar prices, Aguilar maybe being the cheapest.

[MrTPlush]

If they could somehow land a serviceable LH reliever for Thames, I'd do a deal today. Claudio's been plain awful and Counsell continues to trust him in high leverage situations more than trusting a starter go another inning.

 

If they used Claudio like he is actually a left handed reliever they wouldn't have a problem. He is great against lefties...however they like to think he is more than what he is.

[bill hAll Star]

If they could somehow land a serviceable LH reliever for Thames, I'd do a deal today. Claudio's been plain awful and Counsell continues to trust him in high leverage situations more than trusting a starter go another inning.

 

If they used Claudio like he is actually a left handed reliever they wouldn't have a problem. He is great against lefties...however they like to think he is more than what he is.

 

This is due to the Knebel/Jeffress injuries among other things. At certain points, Claudio has been our #2 or #3 pecking order guy and it's not like we have matchup specialists to take some of the RH load off of him if we're trying to get through the meat of the order.

 

There have been many points early in the season when it's, "alright, we've got Bellinger, a righty, then Muncy" or something like that and they just leave Claudio in for the whole thing. Claudio is not great against righties but he's not a ton worse than Albers or Taylor Williams that were available on those days.

 

Once they get bullpen depth, Claudio will be a LOOGY + a handful of ABs against righties to get through to the next lefty.

 

Yes, yes, before you get out the LH/RH splits on Claudio, I see the .900 OPS against RHB. There are certain cases where the lead/deficit means keeping him in and accepting some of the damage against him.

[Outlander]

They do have control over Claudio next year as well so I can see why Counsell would use him against more than lefties every once in a while since Counsell will be forced to keep pitchers in more than he would like next year.

[sveumrules]

Claudio's been plain awful

 

Both his ERA (pretty meaningless at this point given the small sample) & his xFIP (much more meaningful, especially given Claudio's history of elite HR prevention) are above league average.

 

By ERA- he is 118th of 181 qualified relievers to this point. By xFIP- he is 80th of 181 qualified relievers to this point.

 

So, much closer to average than plain awful.

[pacopete4]

Claudio is great when used properly. When used against LHP he's been almost unhittable. When trying to use him as a multiple outs guy, he gets beat up.

[TURBO]

Claudio is great when used properly. When used against LHP he's been almost unhittable. When trying to use him as a multiple outs guy, he gets beat up.

 

You would think our manager would realize this, but apparently he does not.

[pacopete4]

Claudio is great when used properly. When used against LHP he's been almost unhittable. When trying to use him as a multiple outs guy, he gets beat up.

 

You would think our manager would realize this, but apparently he does not.

 

I don't think you can make a statement like this without knowing the full situation. It could very well be that Stearns believed he could be a guy they make into a multiple outs guy and the only way to prove this would be to use him that way. So while it could be that Counsell is a complete moron, it might also not be the situation.

[bill hAll Star]

Claudio is great when used properly. When used against LHP he's been almost unhittable. When trying to use him as a multiple outs guy, he gets beat up.

 

You would think our manager would realize this, but apparently he does not.

 

I do think the manager and GM get this. I know there was the Stearns quote, but they're aware.

 

This was similar with Jennings last year. His stats skyrocketed because he'd be used as a garbage man or just be kept in after blowing a lead.

 

And again, a large chunk to open this season had too shallow of a bullpen.

 

There have been a lot of times that Claudio has come in against a power lefty with a righty behind him and a lefty after that. He then retires the lefty (or even if he doesn't). Hader's unavailable. So what do you do? Do you pull Claudio right away and go to...Matt Albers who then will get pummeled by the lefty afterwards? Or do you just pray that Claudio gets the middle righty (or two) out in between and then can give you an advantage again against the lefty?

 

The lack of Jeffress and Knebel early in the year moved Claudio from option 4 or 5 that can be deployed situationally to option 2b, with 2a being Guerra. If Claudio doesn't get the first lefty out, you can't bring in Knebel with confidence of getting anyone out past said lefty. You now have to keep Claudio in and pray he gets a righty or two out to get to the next lefty. If not, you are going off the edge of a cliff.

[OnTheBlack]

They do have control over Claudio next year as well so I can see why Counsell would use him against more than lefties every once in a while since Counsell will be forced to keep pitchers in more than he would like next year.

 

 

I don't understand this. Why would Counsell be forced to keep pitchers in more next year than he'd like and why would that lead to him using Claudio in situations he shouldn't?

 

We should have a lot more options next year in the pen, but regardless, I really doubt that he's thinking about next years pen when he's deciding if he should pull a pitcher.

[adambr2]

Claudio is great when used properly. When used against LHP he's been almost unhittable. When trying to use him as a multiple outs guy, he gets beat up.

 

You would think our manager would realize this, but apparently he does not.

 

I do think the manager and GM get this. I know there was the Stearns quote, but they're aware.

 

This was similar with Jennings last year. His stats skyrocketed because he'd be used as a garbage man or just be kept in after blowing a lead.

 

And again, a large chunk to open this season had too shallow of a bullpen.

 

There have been a lot of times that Claudio has come in against a power lefty with a righty behind him and a lefty after that. He then retires the lefty (or even if he doesn't). Hader's unavailable. So what do you do? Do you pull Claudio right away and go to...Matt Albers who then will get pummeled by the lefty afterwards? Or do you just pray that Claudio gets the middle righty (or two) out in between and then can give you an advantage again against the lefty?

 

The lack of Jeffress and Knebel early in the year moved Claudio from option 4 or 5 that can be deployed situationally to option 2b, with 2a being Guerra. If Claudio doesn't get the first lefty out, you can't bring in Knebel with confidence of getting anyone out past said lefty. You now have to keep Claudio in and pray he gets a righty or two out to get to the next lefty. If not, you are going off the edge of a cliff.

 

You don't HAVE to. I've said on multiple occasions that this team should start burying pitchers out in corner OF spots on occasion for a single AB when they want to bring the pitcher back in after one AB. That would maintain the platoon advantage for the inning and hopefully keep Counsell from doing crazy things like he did with Claudio against the Braves.

 

Also Jennings wasn't that comparable to Claudio. For his career, Jennings has had very mild platoon splits. He was not great against RHB, but he was at least usable, and typically wasn't used against them in high leverage situations except as a last resort.

 

Claudio is different. He has extreme platoon splits and has his entire career. He is a true LOOGY. Nothing about him has given any indication that he would be successful transitioning to a traditional multi-inning role.

[wntrtxn21]

Claudio is great when used properly. When used against LHP he's been almost unhittable. When trying to use him as a multiple outs guy, he gets beat up.

 

You would think our manager would realize this, but apparently he does not.

 

I don't think you can make a statement like this without knowing the full situation. It could very well be that Stearns believed he could be a guy they make into a multiple outs guy and the only way to prove this would be to use him that way. So while it could be that Counsell is a complete moron, it might also not be the situation.

 

Both Stearns and CC know Claudio is absolutely horrible against RH. This year he allows righties: .323/.382 - 981 OPS! For his career: .314/.352 - .831 OPS against righties. Stearns knew Claudio is not a multiple out or multiple inning type guy. He is the definition of a LOOGY.

[JackNicholson1974]

I don’t think Thames has increased his trade value much, but do people think he can be the 1b answer going forward this year?

[adambr2]

The following regular 1B have an OPS at least 62 points less than Eric Thames this year:

 

Justin Smoak

Paul Goldschmidt

Jose Abreu

Eric Hosmer

Joey Votto

 

Thames has not been an issue, and since there probably isn't anyone who wants to see Aguilar playing every day, trading Thames should not even be something we are pursuing right now.