Keston Hiura called up, Shaw optioned

[MrTPlush]

Shaw can play 3B, 2B, and 1B so he has that going for himself. The only dumpable player is Eric Thames...or you can option Travis Shaw. If Hiura absolutely mashed the Brewers have a bit of a log jam of a problem.

 

I don’t think I would personally drop Thames to go with Shaw, even if he is mashing at AAA. Because really I don’t care what a seasoned veteran is doing to AAA pitching. I’d option Shaw and make him wait for an injury (which will happen). Then he better get up here and produce or back down he goes.

 

I don’t condone dropping serviceable players when someone can be optioned...especially dropping someone serviceable to have Shaw be on the MLB roster when he has been garbage all year. I’d predict Stearns would do what he has often done and preserve as much depth as humanly possible...option Shaw...or even Hiura even if producing. I don’t see Thames getting dropped without a productive Shaw in place.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Shaw has a role on the Brewers well beyond this year as either a fulltime 3B or platoon 1B with Aguilar. Heck, he could even fill in at 2B in a pinch against a RH starter. Thames is the odd man out and a trade involving him should be explored if Shaw demonstrates he's healthy and ready to rejoin the MLB club. IMO, the ideal 2019 scenario is to trade Thames for the best package of young prospects DS can find (think Adam Lind trade), keep Hiura up at 2nd, keep Moose as the primary 3B, and roll with Shaw and Aguilar as a 1B platoon. I like Thames both as a player and even moreso as a pretty cool dude - but his offense is replicative as a LH power bat who can get streaky and carry a team for a few weeks just as easily as he can slump badly and be a strikeout machine. To me Shaw and Thames are virtually the same offensive player when healthy - but Shaw provides more positional flexibility in the IF.

[clancyphile]

So let's say for argument's sake Hiura takes the opportunity and runs with it a la Braun in 2007. Is the most likely scenario Shaw just doesn't get his full time job back? Shaw has to be nervous about having a full time job when he returns from his injury. I am really interested to see how this all plays out, especially if Hiura looks really really good during his time in the big leagues.

 

I was just thinking about this but in terms of what happens if Shaw starts raking in his minor league rehab stint. He could easily fill in at 1st and steal ABs from Thames, play 2B against the occasional righty, and give Moose a day off here or there. Plus someone is bound to get injured at some point. But if Hiura is hitting then I think Shaw's days as an everyday starter are probably over.

 

Too pessimistic re: Shaw.

 

More likely: Once Shaw is healthy, Thames is moved. Cleveland could use him, some other AL teams might be willing to take a flyer (maybe Minnesota, he's be an improvement over Cron, Rosario, or Kepler, especially on the OBP side of things).

 

The problem is who to ask for in return. Probably UT Chris Williams and a couple of DSL lottery tickets from Minnesota. Cleveland's got Miednick and Gallagher who I'd go for as a lower-ceiling/higher-floor version of the Lind-for-Peralta trade.

[homer]

I guess I should clarify....if Hiura mashes then Shaw's days as an everyday starter might numbered if the position player roster stays the way it is. Obviously, if there's a move then that could open a spot for him.

[pacopete4]

Too many quality players? What a time to be a Brewers fan!

[coolhandluke121]

Shaw is 29 and has never really been great. He doesn't have great pedigree and statistically speaking he's probably already a little past his peak. He could be the quintessential example of a McGehee/Bill Hall type who has 2-3 good years at his peak. I'm glad he has options but I'm not just gonna assume we'll see 2017-18 Shaw again. I get the same feeling from Aguilar. All I'm saying is they should both have to earn every start they get from here on out, regardless of what they did the last two years. Team first.

 

I consider it likely that every single season Hiura has from here on out will be better than every season Shaw has. And I don't believe for a second that Shaw's bat will consistently serve at 1B, though his defense there would be intriguing.

[ewitkows]

Isn't Moose's deal an option(mutual/player?) year next year? If Shaw starts raking again, he can play 3rd next year.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Shaw is 29 and has never really been great. He doesn't have great pedigree and statistically speaking he's probably already a little past his peak. He could be the quintessential example of a McGehee/Bill Hall type who has 2-3 good years at his peak. I'm glad he has options but I'm not just gonna assume we'll see 2017-18 Shaw again. I get the same feeling from Aguilar. All I'm saying is they should both have to earn every start they get from here on out, regardless of what they did the last two years. Team first.

 

I consider it likely that every single season Hiura has from here on out will be better than every season Shaw has. And I don't believe for a second that Shaw's bat will consistently serve at 1B, though his defense there would be intriguing.

 

He has been pretty damn good. A 100-RBI 3B who has OPS'd well over .800 for both seasons with MIL. But there's a huge amount of wiggle room between 17-18 Shaw and 19 Shaw though. He could still be a big part of this team without being that good again.

 

For now it's a pretty good problem to have. I would rather attempt to work him through it than write him off. Talk to me in late July and I might feel differently.

[coolhandluke121]

 

He has been pretty damn good. A 100-RBI 3B who has OPS'd well over .800 for both seasons with MIL. But there's a huge amount of wiggle room between 17-18 Shaw and 19 Shaw though. He could still be a big part of this team without being that good again.

 

 

Not sure he's even been a top-5 3B in the league at any point. Still good, but I don't think he's so good that he's somehow assured of a prominent role on the team for years to come. Countless players have been this good or better in their prime before and then faded around 30. And though he's certainly brought a lot of value at 3B, the idea that he's the long-term answer at 1B doesn't seem supported by his long-term track record.

 

Again, he has to earn it and shouldn't get some huge leash. He's had more than enough leash already. They can't claim his stats from his age 27/28 seasons to help them now. A slump is one thing, especially if you have more than a 2-year track record of success. But a slump this long, with absolutely no promising signs of breaking out, and with just 2 years of being a legit MLB player to your name as a 29-year-old, does not make you a core piece.

[Lathund]

Isn't Moose's deal an option(mutual/player?) year next year? If Shaw starts raking again, he can play 3rd next year.

 

It's a mutual option. They're almost never exercised, and tend to serve as a mechanism of deferring a bit of money. It's just such a narrow range of performance that'll result in a situation where both player and team will want to opt in. If the team considers the option to be well worth their money, Moose will likely think he can get a bigger guarantee either through a multi-year deal, or something similar to what he signed this year. And if his performance in relation to the market looks bleak enough that $8m (The difference between the 2020 $11m salary and $3m buyout) looks tempting to Moose, the Brewers wouldn't be too keen on it.

 

I mean it's not at all out of the question that Moose is a Brewer in 2020, but I think it's more likely to be a result of a new contract. Whether it's through becoming a FA and re-signing, or working out some kind of extension.

[MrTPlush]

Travis Shaw was the #10 3B per Fangraphs the last two years combined. If you want just the NL #6 last two years, #5 in 2018, #5 in 2017...offensively. Overall is comparable as Fangraphs doesn't give much for defense to anyone.

 

1 Jose Ramirez Indians 87.5

2 Alex Bregman Astros 69.6

3 Anthony Rendon Nationals 67.6

4 Kris Bryant Cubs 58.1

5 Matt Carpenter Cardinals 52.0

6 Nolan Arenado Rockies 51.6

7 Nicholas Castellanos Tigers 35.7

8 Eugenio Suarez Reds 33.9

9 Manny Machado 33.1

10 Travis Shaw Brewers 27.7

...

….A few country miles....

...

11 Eduardo Escobar 11.7

12 Derek Dietrich Marlins 8.0

13 Mike Moustakas 6.7

 

There have been only 13 qualifying 3B the last two years combined to be positive offensively. Everyone else that started the last two years was negative. Travis Shaw has been really good...

[OldSchoolSnapper]

There is a tendency to discredit guys in the midst of suckage. You had Braun getting DFA'd, Aguilar has to be abandoned RIGHT NOW and now Shaw is the guy. I also have a lot of issues with the "track record" argument with Shaw. He's at least been a "good" player for the duration of his time in the majors. I'm not sure he's the answer at 1B or 3B for this team but statements like it's a lock that Hiura will be better from now on than he's ever been...seem a little extreme

[KeithStone53151]

I tend to agree with the crowd that Shaw just needs some time to get his swing right. And who knows, maybe the wrist really is a significant issue. I definitely think 3-4 weeks or more in the minors would do him a ton of good. Thing is, this has nothing to do with seeing pitches. I've felt like his eye at the plate is pretty similar to 2018 or 2017...his swing mechanics simply must be way off. The guy was missing 92 mph fastballs literally right down the middle...over and over again...on hitters counts. Not even a foul ball, a whiff. Most of our pitchers would probably hit that ball hard most of the time and our slugging 3b can't even touch it.

 

Once Shaw starts hitting and his swing starts working again...you re-evaluate. Maybe Shaw becomes a rotational player, maybe we trade someone, maybe someone else is struggling or gets dinged up and he goes back to an everyday player. Really tough to say anything definitive at this point.

[sveumrules]

A slump is one thing, especially if you have more than a 2-year track record of success. But a slump this long, with absolutely no promising signs of breaking out, and with just 2 years of being a legit MLB player to your name as a 29-year-old, does not make you a core piece.

 

A slump "this long" is still only 154 PAs, it has very little predictive value.

 

Jose Ramirez has a 60 wRC+ & Hunter Dozier has a 171 wRC+. Are those representative of their true talent levels?

 

Even a quarter of the way into the season we are still dealing in very unstable sample sizes.

 

I would wager one can of Budweiser Light beer that Shaw's wRC+ when he returns will be closer to the 120 mark he posted the last two years than it is to his current 46.

[rcc]

Travis is a tough ballplayer. He shakes off getting hit in the head sliding into second (last year), shakes off getting hit on the hand (last year and this year), and has fouled a ball off his foot a few times last year. Now he is telling CC how he is really feeling because he now realizes he is hurting himself and the team. I feel bad for his season so far and all the strikeouts have been hard to watch. But hopefully the IL will do him some good and Mayor of Ding Dong City will return.

[TJseven7]

I guess I should clarify....if Hiura mashes then Shaw's days as an everyday starter might numbered if the position player roster stays the way it is. Obviously, if there's a move then that could open a spot for him.

 

I was adamantly pleading to get Shaw out of the lineup but his days as are starter are only numbered this year if Hiura mashes. Moose is a mutual option, likely opt out. 3b is wide open. Thames is a club option with a 1 mil buyout. No one would argue that Shaw is worse than Thames when Shaw is right. Shaw's got 2 arby left and likely will stay sub 5mil next year if this season ends up with some time in AAA.

 

Shaw is the cheaper (more versatile) 1b platoon mate for Aguilar

Shaw is the most likely starting 3b in 2020

Shaw can play 2b to rest Hiura.

 

If they keep Moose, every day is a stretch but other than back up SS ABs, Shaw will get them all and likely see 400 ab between 1b 2b and 3b and random DH when its not Braun.

[82brewcrew82]

I guess I should clarify....if Hiura mashes then Shaw's days as an everyday starter might numbered if the position player roster stays the way it is. Obviously, if there's a move then that could open a spot for him.

 

I was adamantly pleading to get Shaw out of the lineup but his days as are starter are only numbered this year if Hiura mashes. Moose is a mutual option, likely opt out. 3b is wide open. Thames is a club option with a 1 mil buyout. No one would argue that Shaw is worse than Thames when Shaw is right. Shaw's got 2 arby left and likely will stay sub 5mil next year if this season ends up with some time in AAA.

 

Shaw is the cheaper (more versatile) 1b platoon mate for Aguilar

Shaw is the most likely starting 3b in 2020

Shaw can play 2b to rest Hiura.

 

If they keep Moose, every day is a stretch but other than back up SS ABs, Shaw will get them all and likely see 400 ab between 1b 2b and 3b and random DH when its not Braun.

That only works if Thames is moved.....and he should be.

[TJseven7]

Well even if we don't trade Thames, opting out and keeping Shaw is a cheaper option by 1.5 mil. Shaw's better defensively.

[phnxcrew]

At what point do we send Hiura down and bring Dubon up? Three games is three games!

[NievesNoNO]

I'm not sure what is wrong with Shaw; maybe he's had the wrist thing or something else since Spring training. He struck out a ton in spring too and I just chalked it up to trying some different things. His numbers the last couple years have been All-Star-ish. He even stepped up in his peripherals last year to the point where I wondered if there might be another slight step up coming. I don't think you go from 18% K rate to 32% without something being physically wrong.

 

I'm happy to see Hiura, but I wouldn't discount Shaw. He's been really good.

[torts]

Those k's today were tough to watch because it seemed like he was a hair away from contact each time!

[SRB]

Hiura was swinging at pitches in the zone today, so I'm not at all concerned about his 4 K performance because that shows it wasn't a plate discipline issue and we already know he has elite bat-on-ball skills. He's probably still jittery from the call-up.

[rickh150]

Moose has intangibles outside of the stats. He seems to be able to hit tougher pitching, as well.... not sure if stats back that up. If he keeps this up, I would be interested in 2 or 3 more years of Moose.

[torts]

Hiura was swinging at pitches in the zone today, so I'm not at all concerned about his 4 K performance because that shows it wasn't a plate discipline issue and we already know he has elite bat-on-ball skills. He's probably still jittery from the call-up.

 

agreed!

[JosephC]

Shaw can play 3B, 2B, and 1B so he has that going for himself. The only dumpable player is Eric Thames...or you can option Travis Shaw. If Hiura absolutely mashed the Brewers have a bit of a log jam of a problem.

 

I don’t think I would personally drop Thames to go with Shaw, even if he is mashing at AAA. Because really I don’t care what a seasoned veteran is doing to AAA pitching. I’d option Shaw and make him wait for an injury (which will happen). Then he better get up here and produce or back down he goes.

 

I don’t condone dropping serviceable players when someone can be optioned...especially dropping someone serviceable to have Shaw be on the MLB roster when he has been garbage all year. I’d predict Stearns would do what he has often done and preserve as much depth as humanly possible...option Shaw...or even Hiura even if producing. I don’t see Thames getting dropped without a productive Shaw in place.

 

I don't think it matters is Hiura is OPS'ing 1.600 or .400, when Shaw is ready (and if there are no more injuries to other players), Hiura is likely to be sent back down. If Hiura is on the MLB roster from this point forward, he would accrue 139 days of service time. Last year, 2.134 days of service time earned Super Two status for players with between 2-3 years of service time. Over the last ten years, the lowest number to reach Super Two status is 2 years, 122 days. Very, very strong odds that the Brewers will look to option Hiura and keep him in the minors for two weeks later on this year, as it could easily save 10+ million over the course of 4 season that can be used for other additions. So even if Hiura is just raking, the Brewers will likely be motivated to send him back down. Obviously that length of time he would spend in the minors would be dependent on how much he is hitting during his time in Milwaukee.