Keston Hiura called up, Shaw optioned

[pacopete4]

Hiura can't pitch. He is solving the least problematic part of the equation. I'm glad he's here and I expect him to rake but I'm not going to get excited until the pitching whoas are solvdd.

 

With ya on this. Until I see some consistency out of our pitching staff, it’s hard to get too jacked up for this team.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

I recall saying that Hiura is the best RH bat in the organization which take however you want, (as an indictment of how subpar the team's RH bats are or as indicator of how good Hiura is) it's a fair opinion to hold.

 

I also said that Hiura will be the team's 2nd best bat for the remainder of whatever season they decide to keep him up permanently. And hopefully it's this one because I stand by it. His bat is that special. And it's a characterization shared by people much closer to the situation.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

The Brewers could start losing games 10-9. Or they could win a few slug fests which could eventually ease the stress on a few pitchers. You just never know how not having multiple black holes in the lineup could have a compound effect. You don't ignore an obvious way to improve because you can't see how it could aid in fixing your biggest problem.

 

Maybe they'll go on a string of games jumping out to 3 run leads instead of falling behind by 3 runs out of the gate. Anyone see how that could benefit the pitching?

[pacopete4]

The Brewers could start losing games 10-9. Or they could win a few slug fests which could eventually ease the stress on a few pitchers. You just never know how not having multiple black holes in the lineup could have a compound effect. You don't ignore an obvious way to improve because you can't see how it could aid in fixing your biggest problem.

 

Now we are going to the other extreme. I doubt anyone would complain about Stearns trying to fix holes on our roster. I really, really doubt anyone has. People are just saying that this hole, while important, isn't the main concern of this team and most likely won't be the difference between this team starting to win series again. Pitching will be.

[SeaBass]

That's all wonderful. He still has to actually do it first. People acting like it's a guarantee that he will instantly perform at a MVP level bother me. Is it possible? Yes, it's happened before, it will happen again. Is it likely? I think history would say it's not likely, and that doesn't mean he's not going to have a successful rookie season. There's a difference between being successful and being a baseball god right out of the gate.

 

 

Has anyone actually been acting like Hiura is going to instantly perform like an MVP or be the next Babe Ruth, or is that just some kind of embellishment that has taken on a life of its own?

 

I doubt a single person has indicated that anything close to those two things is realistic. What is realistic? It's probably realistic that Hiura can come in and post an .850 or so OPS at this level, hit with good power and replace the bat of Perez against LHP in the lineup. Which is a pretty large upgrade over the production we were getting from Shaw/Perez. That's what matters. Just because Hiura isn't going to fix every problem on the team doesn't mean you don't let him come in and fix one that he likely can.

Plenty of fans have been acting this way in their posts. This site isn't the only place baseball fans express opinions.

 

And yes I think he is capable of doing those things. But he still has to do it. Everything else is just crossed fingers.

 

Also, the Shaw/Perez stuff isn't a factor. I have been an advocate for Hiura's call up too. It's the over the top stuff that is the point of my post. And honestly, the blowback I get for merely suggesting he might not be amazing right away I feel kind of proves the point.

 

How are we all feeling about Corbin Burnes these days? I know we don't hate him but is he as untouchable in a trade in fans minds as he was after last season?

[pacopete4]

WHAT YOU SEE BELOW IS ALL SARCASM AND A JOKE. THEY ARE NOT A REFLECTION OF THE ACTUAL POSTERS THEMSELVES. Carry on...

[sarcasm]Keston Hiura will be the next Babe Ruth.[/sarcasm]

[sarcasm]I've never seen another player better than Keston Hiura. Future Hall of Fame player.[/sarcasm]

[sarcasm]Nevermind sending Shaw down. Just DFA him because that is how great Keston Hiura is already.[/sarcasm]

[sarcasm]Keston Hiura is the 6th true ace of this team.[/sarcasm]

 

adambr2, what do you have to say about this?

[True Blue Brew Crew]

The Brewers could start losing games 10-9. Or they could win a few slug fests which could eventually ease the stress on a few pitchers. You just never know how not having multiple black holes in the lineup could have a compound effect. You don't ignore an obvious way to improve because you can't see how it could aid in fixing your biggest problem.

 

Now we are going to the other extreme. I doubt anyone would complain about Stearns trying to fix holes on our roster. I really, really doubt anyone has. People are just saying that this hole, while important, isn't the main concern of this team and most likely won't be the difference between this team starting to win series again. Pitching will be.

 

And I'm simply saying that swapping out an horribly under performing bat for one that has the ability to be a top producing one could have a compound effect in helping the pitchers to perform better. That's far from extreme. It's a team game and all parts have impact on the others.

 

There are no guarantees. If the Brewers top prospect by far was a pitcher then everyone would have been clamoring for that player to be brought up. But just because the top prospect wasn't a pitcher it doesn't mean people should be ok with him being in the minors while the team stumbled. The Brewers didn't get blown out in all those losses. He very well might have helped them win a few games with his bat.

[SeaBass]

Edit: Removed after misunderstanding what was quoted.

[homer]

Brewers wanted Shaw to get hot probably so they could trade him or, obviously, just keep him. He hit 30+ home runs the last two seasons. They gave him exactly half a season to get back on track which was the right thing to do. He's worth a bag of rosin at this point unfortunately but the intent was smart.

[xisxisxis]

 

Has anyone actually been acting like Hiura is going to instantly perform like an MVP or be the next Babe Ruth, or is that just some kind of embellishment that has taken on a life of its own?

 

Yeah noone has been acting like that. It's just a straw man that a few posters (Or maybe it was SeaBass who did it last month too, can't remember) have used to make a point. For what reason, I really couldn't tell.

Unfortunately, it has become the status quo here are brewerfan to throw up these straw man arguments at every turn. Saying everyone believes in one extreme is just absolute nonsense.

Hiura can't pitch. He is solving the least problematic part of the equation. I'm glad he's here and I expect him to rake but I'm not going to get excited until the pitching whoas are solvdd.

 

This is another fallacy. Unless baseball changed the rules, the team that scores the most runs wins. This argument is like saying we only score 4.8 runs per game and give up 5 so the best way is to improve the pitching (where from?) so we give up less than 4.8 is the way to fix the problem. How about we improve the offense to 5 and improve the pitching to 4.9? or improve the offense to 5.1 and stick with the pitching at 5?

[shanedog19]

Hooray!! So happy we finally made this move, long overdue. Now we just gotta get that starting rotation right, here's hoping!

[homer]

Hiura can't pitch. He is solving the least problematic part of the equation. I'm glad he's here and I expect him to rake but I'm not going to get excited until the pitching whoas are solvdd.

 

This is another fallacy. Unless baseball changed the rules, the team that scores the most runs wins. This argument is like saying we only score 4.8 runs per game and give up 5 so the best way is to improve the pitching (where from?) so we give up less than 4.8 is the way to fix the problem. How about we improve the offense to 5 and improve the pitching to 4.9? or improve the offense to 5.1 and stick with the pitching at 5?

 

It's a fallacy that I won't get excited?

[homer]

Keston Hiura will be the next Babe Ruth.

I've never seen another player better than Keston Hiura. Future Hall of Fame player.

Nevermind sending Shaw down. Just DFA him because that is how great Keston Hiura is already.

Keston Hiura is the 6th true ace of this team.

 

adambr2, what do you have to say about this?

 

 

I strongly suggest avoiding making up quotes like this. At the very least you need to let people know you are doing it or put it in blue.

[pacopete4]

The Brewers could start losing games 10-9. Or they could win a few slug fests which could eventually ease the stress on a few pitchers. You just never know how not having multiple black holes in the lineup could have a compound effect. You don't ignore an obvious way to improve because you can't see how it could aid in fixing your biggest problem.

 

Now we are going to the other extreme. I doubt anyone would complain about Stearns trying to fix holes on our roster. I really, really doubt anyone has. People are just saying that this hole, while important, isn't the main concern of this team and most likely won't be the difference between this team starting to win series again. Pitching will be.

 

And I'm simply saying that swapping out an horribly under performing bat for one that has the ability to be a top producing one could have a compound effect in helping the pitchers to perform better. That's far from extreme. It's a team game and all parts have impact on the others.

 

There are no guarantees. If the Brewers top prospect by far was a pitcher then everyone would have been clamoring for that player to be brought up. But just because the top prospect wasn't a pitcher it doesn't mean people should be ok with him being in the minors while the team stumbled. The Brewers didn't get blown out in all those losses. He very well might have helped them win a few games with his bat.

 

Possibly. And I'm not saying your wrong I just think you are mis-labeling a lot. If Keston was being held down because some Joe-schmoe was manning 2B you might have everyone on your side. But they were doing their due diligence with a good player for us. They allowed him a half of a season. If they felt as though that was long enough to get right, then great, bring on Hiura and hope for the best. Some of this other stuff is complete nonsense to me. (not referring to you in that last statement, just overall with a lot of the fan base)

[pacopete4]

Keston Hiura will be the next Babe Ruth.

I've never seen another player better than Keston Hiura. Future Hall of Fame player.

Nevermind sending Shaw down. Just DFA him because that is how great Keston Hiura is already.

Keston Hiura is the 6th true ace of this team.

 

adambr2, what do you have to say about this?

 

 

I strongly suggest avoiding making up quotes like this. At the very least you need to let people know you are doing it or put it in blue.

 

It was all in fun, trying to lighten it up a bit around here. Lots of tighty whities in wads lately. But yes, ALL of those quotes are in [sarcasm]blue.[/sarcasm]

[KeithStone53151]

Was going to say, I for sure never said we should DFA Shaw.

[pacopete4]

Was going to say, I for sure never said we should DFA Shaw.

 

I reeeeaaaalllly thought the last quote would be the true indicator of what that post was.

[SeaBass]

Was going to say, I for sure never said we should DFA Shaw.

 

I reeeeaaaalllly thought the last quote would be the true indicator of what that post was.

I fell for it and I feel like I usually have a good eye for that stuff.

[OldHeidelberg]

Brewers wanted Shaw to get hot probably so they could trade him or, obviously, just keep him. He hit 30+ home runs the last two seasons. They gave him exactly half a season to get back on track which was the right thing to do. He's worth a bag of rosin at this point unfortunately but the intent was smart.

 

Santana still had value this off season and Shaw still has some value as well. That said the optics of trading for a .160 hitter in late June means no one is likely to trade for him right now unless we just give him away in a salary dump. I don't think letting it go on this long was the right thing to do, they solved the problem when he went on IL and brought up Hiura then for money reasons sent him down and we had a poor stretch against a lot of LH starters. This isn't just hindsight, most Brewer fans did not like Hiura getting sent down and were skeptical that Shaw would turn it around quickly enough considering how poor he had looked at the plate. Thames and Santana found their way into the doghouse a lot faster last year and they had 30 HR in 2017 as well. The real debate here should be whether the Brewers were right to make sure Hiura cleared super 2 in my opinion.

[homer]

Brewers wanted Shaw to get hot probably so they could trade him or, obviously, just keep him. He hit 30+ home runs the last two seasons. They gave him exactly half a season to get back on track which was the right thing to do. He's worth a bag of rosin at this point unfortunately but the intent was smart.

 

Santana still had value this off season and Shaw still has some value as well. That said the optics of trading for a .160 hitter in late June means no one is likely to trade for him right now unless we just give him away in a salary dump. I don't think letting it go on this long was the right thing to do, they solved the problem when he went on IL and brought up Hiura then for money reasons sent him down and we had a poor stretch against a lot of LH starters. This isn't just hindsight, most Brewer fans did not like Hiura getting sent down and were skeptical that Shaw would turn it around quickly enough considering how poor he had looked at the plate. Thames and Santana found their way into the doghouse a lot faster last year and they had 30 HR in 2017 as well. The real debate here should be whether the Brewers were right to make sure Hiura cleared super 2 in my opinion.

 

maybe but by the time he gets to near Super 2 status everyone will have forgotten that he was sent back down for another three weeks

[bigredrobbo]

I can kinda see both sides here. Jettisoning previously productive players after a slow start is just not something a team with the Brewers' resources can do. We aren't the Yankees, Cubs or Red Sox who can just buy their way out of roster difficulties. And one game back, approaching the ASG is by no means "panic button mode". Stearns and CC both suggested that we'd have to fix this internally, and would eventually have a point of no return. The main difference between fans and the HO is where that point was, I believe. Apparently, that point is now, with the HO and would have been a month ago with most fans.

 

Had HP continued to completely OWN LH pitching, there's no way he'd have been on the chopping block, but versatility is useful right up until the point you can't hit in ANY position, against any hitters, whichever hand they throw with.

 

I gotta think the balance between sentimentality/loyalty vs club success/chemistry is a tricky one to get right. I think too many fans see only the "I want what I want, now, daddy", Veruca Salt approach when these are ACTUAL people we are talking about, and what the Brewers do with them can have repercussions, both on the field, and in the locker room.

[willie key]

It really has nothing to do with loyalty

 

It has more to do with the belief Shaw will do better than the guy behind him. He’s had his chance and failed miserably

 

I don’t think guys like Shaw and Aguilar are on the team out of loyalty. It’s because they were thought to be better then anyone else in the organization

 

Shaw has lost that. Aguilar could be next

[TJseven7]

I can kinda see both sides here. Jettisoning previously productive players after a slow start is just not something a team with the Brewers' resources can do. We aren't the Yankees, Cubs or Red Sox who can just buy their way out of roster difficulties. And one game back, approaching the ASG is by no means "panic button mode". Stearns and CC both suggested that we'd have to fix this internally, and would eventually have a point of no return. The main difference between fans and the HO is where that point was, I believe. Apparently, that point is now, with the HO and would have been a month ago with most fans.

 

Had HP continued to completely OWN LH pitching, there's no way he'd have been on the chopping block, but versatility is useful right up until the point you can't hit in ANY position, against any hitters, whichever hand they throw with.

 

I gotta think the balance between sentimentality/loyalty vs club success/chemistry is a tricky one to get right. I think too many fans see only the "I want what I want, now, daddy", Veruca Salt approach when these are ACTUAL people we are talking about, and what the Brewers do with them can have repercussions, both on the field, and in the locker room.

 

I still have high hopes for Shaw but he has been brutal all year. Injuy or not he's been brutal. Hiura earned his way up. Shaw earned his way down.

 

There was zero reason to bring him off the AAA roster when they did. You could have activated him off IL, swapped down a pitcher, sent shaw right back down and a shuttle arm up. He hasn't proven to be the best bat in AAA. He struggled there too. We all know the Shaw we want would destroy AAA. 1000 ops destroy AAA.

 

The team has hopes too high to be loyal to anyone. Hiura was producing. Shaw was not. So much so that he wasn't outperforming not only Moose and Hiura, but Thames and rivaled Aguilar.

 

Go tear up AAA to the tune of 1000 like Spangs Orf Dubon Saladino can't... then he's ready to return.

 

The thought that MKE doesn't have the option of sending down Shaw is correct 90% of the time. This time fell in that 10%. Hiura Moose Arica Thames did the lifting.

[OldHeidelberg]

maybe but by the time he gets to near Super 2 status everyone will have forgotten that he was sent back down for another three weeks

 

Not me, I am like an elephant.

 

It could prove to be the right move if the brewers still make the playoffs or fall far short. But as of now the decision looks pretty bad, I think they gambled with the weak schedule and got burned.

[SeaBass]

maybe but by the time he gets to near Super 2 status everyone will have forgotten that he was sent back down for another three weeks

 

Not me, I am like an elephant.

 

It could prove to be the right move if the brewers still make the playoffs or fall far short. But as of now the decision looks pretty bad, I think they gambled with the weak schedule and got burned.

Careful, this comes dangerously close to suggesting that Hiura all by himself keeps the Brewers from suffering this tough stretch and I've been assured by those who know better that nobody thinks that.