Keston Hiura called up, Shaw optioned

[coolhandluke121]

One of my favorite things about this team is they way they give players a reasonable amount of time to get things right before doing things like this. I think a lot of fans are quick to call for a hook after a few bad weeks, whereas a lot of "player's managers" give guys way too long. This group is pretty level-headed about all of that IMO.

 

That said, I think they gave Shaw a few weeks too many and I hope it doesn't cost them. They could have used Hiura against the Cubs and their LHP's, but the real issue is that Shaw has shown absolutely NO signs of being a competent MLB hitter all year. By contrast, Braun and Aguilar (for example) at least showed some, even at their worst. And with Moose available at 3B and Thames playing more than Aguilar, they needed a RHB middle infielder with a better bat than Hernan.

 

Could be my imagination but does Shaw's body look a little worse this year? He's obviously never been Thames, but this year he looks like a rec league softball player. His arms are like noodles. I'm not sure he had a good off season of training. He looks a bit like Aguilar without the natural god-given size and strength.

[BruisedCrew]

Hopefully he plays tonight, I have never been so pumped for a guy to get called up.

 

I haven’t been this excited since Randy Ready came up after tearing up the minor leagues.

 

Ever since then I’ve taken a wait and see approach about prospects. Hopefully Hiura will be closer to Braun than Ready.

 

Given the Brewers usual approach of giving players a day or two to get acclimated I wouldn’t expect to see Hiura in the starting lineup tonight. Maybe a pinch hitting appearance before going into the starting lineup as early as tomorrow.

[shanedog19]

Wish he would have been called up for the Cubs series but I'll take it!!

 

Agreed. I doubt Shaw just suddenly had a wrist injury. Brewers sure could have used that bat the last 4 games.

 

I get the feeling that Shaw's last three ABs last night sealed it. Two pretty hapless looking Ks and a lazy fly. I predict he takes 10 days off, then goes on a minor league rehab to AAA. Hopefully that does the trick. The Brewers are going to need that bat working again.

 

I'm not so sure the team will "need" to get Shaw's bat working again. They are still 5 games above .500 and he has contributed absolutely nothing. I could see a scenario in which Huira becomes the every day 2nd baseman and Moose gets the lion's share of the playing time at 3rd base. I just don't want the club to have to rely on him if he can't get healthy this year.

[HarveysWBs]

Vlad Jr. turned 20 three weeks ago. I think his struggles were pretty predictable.

 

Forget the age factor, he had a K rate of less than 10% the last two years combined and after being promoted spike to over 20%. Hiura is debuting with a K rate of nearly 30%. Kid destroyed and overperformed for his age at every stop. Not sure why it wasn't expected for him to over perform at the MLB level compared to a normal rookie. Big jump yes, but Guerrero Jr. was no normal guy.

 

I will temper my expectations for a guy who gets fanned at a high rate at AAA. Not sure why going to the MLB level will help that much and guys striking out 30% of the time don't typically provide much of meaning.

 

It is really hard to predict how a guy will do when making the jump. Some guys sprint out of the gate and some don't. Some surprise compared to expectations and some obviously disappoint. Hopefully he looks competent.

 

I agree that Hiura could struggle, and speaking for myself, I will only be disappointed if he comes up and is only subpar at the plate relative to other second basemen. For that position, I figure "average" is around 90 OPS+. For comparison, Perez is OPS+ 88 for the season, so to me, this move is a win if Hiura is better than Perez. I think that is a very reasonable expectation, and while he may see a big spike in his strikeout rate at the MLB level like Vlad Jr., I wouldn't take Hiura's 30% K-rate so far this year as necessarily indicative of who he is going forward. It seems he saw an early spike as he adjusted to AAA pitching, but has since leveled off his K/BB% quite nicely.

 

So, long story short, I expect Hiura to play a lot and probably strike out a bit more than we'd like (and more than he's used to), but make strides in that area if given the playing time to adjust. He should at least be marginally better than Perez, and way better than 2019 Shaw (OPS+ 46, yuck!), and that is something everyone should be excited about. Whether he is a star, though, is anyone's guess. But it should be fun to find out.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Could be my imagination but does Shaw's body look a little worse this year? He's obviously never been Thames, but this year he looks like a rec league softball player. His arms are like noodles. I'm not sure he had a good off season of training. He looks a bit like Aguilar without the natural god-given size and strength.

 

I don't see that at all. He looks fine physically. I think his issues are on the mental side.

[brewcrewdue80]

Hiura went from near 40% k down to 27 iirc. He was at 23k-0bb to start off the season. Now 15bbs/40ks. Has walked more in May than kd 11/10. Lastly 9/18 runners in scoring position and 2outs. Please give me that kind of batter under pressure!

[brooks_quichenick]

Keston is the 1st position player from the 2017 draft to make it to the Sow

[True Blue Brew Crew]

He's gonna rake.

[nodakfan17]

What jersey number will he wear? 2?

[Fear The Chorizo]

Welcome to the show Keston! Contrary to other posts in this thread and for the sake of dosing this board with a well-deserved shot of optimism, I for one am looking forward to another quality RH bat balancing out the lineup and watching this guy rake. Heading into 2020, Hiura is going to be considered the 2nd best hitter on this MLB roster and will look pretty good hitting between Cain and Yelich at the top of the order.

 

I'm really struggling to figure out why roughly 1/2 the posts in this thread revolve around collective "can't wait to watch him suck at the MLB level" takes when frankly there's nothing about his abilities as a hitter that point to him being anything less than an above average offensive MLB 2B right damn now. Dude was the best hitter in his draft and has performed well at all FIVE minor league stops + 1 AZFL stint he's made over the course of ~1.5 minor league seasons. Hiura is the best hitting prospect to come through the Brewers' system since the guy who may well retire after rewriting large portions of the Brewers' career offensive record books (Braunie) - it's an exciting day!

 

Wait, now that he's up does this mean our farm system sucks again??

[Pugger]

Looking forward to seeing what Hiura can do! I would assume he will be in the lineup as long as he’s up.

 

Rats. I won't be able to see his debut tonight so I hope you all let those of us who can't see it let us know how he does.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Welcome to the show Keston! Contrary to other posts in this thread and for the sake of dosing this board with a well-deserved shot of optimism, I for one am looking forward to another quality RH bat balancing out the lineup and watching this guy rake. Heading into 2020, Hiura is going to be considered the 2nd best hitter on this MLB roster and will look pretty good hitting between Cain and Yelich at the top of the order.

 

I'm really struggling to figure out why roughly 1/2 the posts in this thread revolve around collective "can't wait to watch him suck at the MLB level" takes when frankly there's nothing about his abilities as a hitter that point to him being anything less than an above average offensive MLB 2B right damn now. Dude was the best hitter in his draft and has performed well at all FIVE minor league stops + 1 AZFL stint he's made over the course of ~1.5 minor league seasons. Hiura is the best hitting prospect to come through the Brewers' system since the guy who may well retire after rewriting large portions of the Brewers' career offensive record books (Braunie) - it's an exciting day!

 

Wait, now that he's up does this mean our farm system sucks again??

 

Where in the world is that idea coming from? I see a ton of optimism here. Yeah, some guarded optimism, but optimism all the same. Don't turn what should be a fun day into a fight.

[patrickgpe]

What jersey number will he wear? 2?

he wore 18 in San Antonio which is available.

[MadScientist]

Vlad Jr. turned 20 three weeks ago. I think his struggles were pretty predictable.

 

Forget the age factor, he had a K rate of less than 10% the last two years combined and after being promoted spike to over 20%. Hiura is debuting with a K rate of nearly 30%. Kid destroyed and overperformed for his age at every stop. Not sure why it wasn't expected for him to over perform at the MLB level compared to a normal rookie. Big jump yes, but Guerrero Jr. was no normal guy.

 

I will temper my expectations for a guy who gets fanned at a high rate at AAA. Not sure why going to the MLB level will help that much and guys striking out 30% of the time don't typically provide much of meaning.

 

It is really hard to predict how a guy will do when making the jump. Some guys sprint out of the gate and some don't. Some surprise compared to expectations and some obviously disappoint. Hopefully he looks competent.

 

I agree that Hiura could struggle, and speaking for myself, I will only be disappointed if he comes up and is only subpar at the plate relative to other second basemen. For that position, I figure "average" is around 90 OPS+. For comparison, Perez is OPS+ 88 for the season, so to me, this move is a win if Hiura is better than Perez. I think that is a very reasonable expectation, and while he may see a big spike in his strikeout rate at the MLB level like Vlad Jr., I wouldn't take Hiura's 30% K-rate so far this year as necessarily indicative of who he is going forward. It seems he saw an early spike as he adjusted to AAA pitching, but has since leveled off his K/BB% quite nicely.

 

So, long story short, I expect Hiura to play a lot and probably strike out a bit more than we'd like (and more than he's used to), but make strides in that area if given the playing time to adjust. He should at least be marginally better than Perez, and way better than 2019 Shaw (OPS+ 46, yuck!), and that is something everyone should be excited about. Whether he is a star, though, is anyone's guess. But it should be fun to find out.

 

One other thing on that strikeout rate. Hiura had 15 K's in his first 5 games (21 PA). Since then his rate is down to 20.6%. I'm not expecting him to set the world on fire, but I also don't think there is a gaping hole in his swing that MLB pitchers will exploit at will.

[homer]

In regards to his K rate...

 

Keston had 24 K's his first 15 games (58 ABs, 1 BB). He's had 16 since then (71ABs, 14BBs).

 

I don't have time to look but I feel like he took a few weeks to get settled at A+ too so expecting him to light the world on fire might be a bit too enthusiastic but given enough ABs he should be more than fine.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Welcome to the show Keston! Contrary to other posts in this thread and for the sake of dosing this board with a well-deserved shot of optimism, I for one am looking forward to another quality RH bat balancing out the lineup and watching this guy rake. Heading into 2020, Hiura is going to be considered the 2nd best hitter on this MLB roster and will look pretty good hitting between Cain and Yelich at the top of the order.

 

I'm really struggling to figure out why roughly 1/2 the posts in this thread revolve around collective "can't wait to watch him suck at the MLB level" takes when frankly there's nothing about his abilities as a hitter that point to him being anything less than an above average offensive MLB 2B right damn now.

 

+1

 

It's almost as if they're rooting for him to start slow.

 

I only take one exception to your post. Hiura is going to be their 2nd best bat by June. This June. Said it before the season started and putting it on record again here.

[502 to Right]

[JimH5]

Vlad Jr. was supposed to be the greatest hitting prospect in forever and he has struggled mightily. It's a big jump to MLB.

 

And there are plenty of examples in recent history on the other end of the spectrum that dominate MLB pitching early in their career. Bellinger, Soto, Acuna, further back obviously Braun. Even our last "great" 2B prospect, Brett Lawrie, had a dominant rookie year after the trade. Just because it doesn't happen every time doesn't mean Hiura can't do it.

 

Of course. Maybe he'll be great.

 

But the success rate of "Top" guys is mixed. That's all I'm saying. Byron Buxton, Delmon Young, Gregg Jefferies, Lewis Brinson, Matt LaPorta, Brett Wallace, Kyle Schwarber, Dustin Ackley. . .There was lots of greatness predicted for that group and they delivered a collective shrug.

 

Baseball prospecting is an uncertain game. I want to see Hiura, but more as a curiosity than to think that he'll be an instant improvement.

[homer]

Welcome to the show Keston! Contrary to other posts in this thread and for the sake of dosing this board with a well-deserved shot of optimism, I for one am looking forward to another quality RH bat balancing out the lineup and watching this guy rake. Heading into 2020, Hiura is going to be considered the 2nd best hitter on this MLB roster and will look pretty good hitting between Cain and Yelich at the top of the order.

 

I'm really struggling to figure out why roughly 1/2 the posts in this thread revolve around collective "can't wait to watch him suck at the MLB level" takes when frankly there's nothing about his abilities as a hitter that point to him being anything less than an above average offensive MLB 2B right damn now.

 

+1

 

It's almost as if they're rooting for him to start slow.

 

I only take one exception to your post. Hiura is going to be their 2nd best bat by June. This June. Said it before the season started and putting it on record again here.

 

 

Come on, you guys. No one is rooting against him and no one says he sucks. Stop with the hyperbole. Some people are choosing to see what he does before getting too excited and that's ok.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

It's almost as if they're rooting for him to start slow.

 

Literally no one is saying that. Come on guys ... this is a cool event. Don't turn it into another pissing match. There is no fault in keeping expectations tempered.

[HarveysWBs]

It's almost as if they're rooting for him to start slow.

 

Literally no one is saying that. Come on guys ... this is a cool event. Don't turn it into another pissing match. There is no fault in keeping expectations tempered.

 

I'm excited! All he has to do is be better than Shaw and Perez, and he'll help the Brewers win games right now. We won't know if he's a star for two or three more years, but the title window is now, and he should help right now. What isn't to like?

[adambr2]

 

Wait, now that he's up does this mean our farm system sucks again??

 

I mean I know you are being sarcastic and this isn't the point here (quite excited for Keston myself!), but to be honest, yes. If Keston never goes back down and graduates from the prospect list, it's a pretty bad system.

 

Turang probably becomes our top prospect. Close between Lutz and Ray for #2. There's some excitement for pitching talent in a couple years with Rassmussen and Ashby but nothing real close other than Brown who is struggling. It's definitely a system entering a "rebuild" phase, but that's okay. It becomes a little trickier making deadline deals for rentals, though.

[djoctagone]

Spangenberg DFA'd to make room on the 40-man.

the brewers have seven days to trade, release or outright spangenberg to the minors. spangenberg has not been outrighted to the minor leagues before, so if he clears waivers, he will be forced to accept the minor league assignment.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

Wait, now that he's up does this mean our farm system sucks again??

 

I mean I know you are being sarcastic and this isn't the point here (quite excited for Keston myself!), but to be honest, yes. If Keston never goes back down and graduates from the prospect list, it's a pretty bad system.

 

Turang probably becomes our top prospect. Close between Lutz and Ray for #2. There's some excitement for pitching talent in a couple years with Rassmussen and Ashby but nothing real close other than Brown who is struggling. It's definitely a system entering a "rebuild" phase, but that's okay. It becomes a little trickier making deadline deals for rentals, though.

 

Totally OK. There are still plenty of guys to be excited about, too. Dubon, Nottingham, Taylor, Ray and Stokes certainly at the AAA level. It's next man up. This isn't like the mid 2000s when the farm was completely barren after Fielder, Weeks, Hart and later Braun were elevated. This system is better top to bottom, and that is a credit to Stearns and the scouting staff.

[SeaBass]

I don't want what I've said to be construed as rooting against Hiura. I am excited and hopeful he will make a positive impact on the team now and in the future. I am also choosing not to put undue expectations on his shoulders right out of the gate. I'm expecting slow but steady progress filled with ups and downs, not an instant face of the franchise type arrival.

 

I feel like some posters are expecting peak Hiura as soon as he strolls into the clubhouse. When ideally peak Hiura is three or four or more years down the road. Christian Yelich had solid if not spectacular numbers and went supernova in his 6th season. It seems silly to expect overnight success for Hiura. If that makes me a negative Nancy so be it.