Keston Hiura called up, Shaw optioned

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

This team is going to have games where the offense looks like crap, whether Keston Hiura is part of it or not. It was one game. Brew4U is correct in saying that the inconsistency of the starting pitching staff in particular after Woodruff and Davies has been a much bigger problem than a perceived lack of offense, one game withstanding. A problem, albeit smaller, is the lack of one more reliever that can be counted on in late-game situations.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

15 days ago the Brewers optioned Hiura to AAA and "hoped" they'd be covered against LHP by giving those starts at 2B to Hernan Perez who had been mashing LHP well above his career numbers in a small sample.

 

Here are Perez's numbers over the last 15 days while Hiura has been away...

 

22 AB, 4 H, 0 XBH, 1 RBI, 2 BB, 5 SO, .182 AVG, .240 OBP, .182 SLG, .422 OPS

 

Needless to say, not what they were hoping for.

[tmwiese55]

Still amazed that so many think Hiura solves the problems of this team. It has been the pitching and there’s really no arguing it.

 

Odd thing to say coming off a 2-0 loss. Hiura doesn't solve all the problems of this team, but he has shown the ability to help solve one of them. I don't think there's a person here who thinks the team is better equipped to win a game today with him in AAA.

 

And they lost while scoring 7 a few days ago. Someone posted all the stats yesterday that make it essentially even, if I recall the numbers were slightly be better vs LHP but the takeaway was that it was basically the same. I was surprised too.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

This team is going to have games where the offense looks like crap, whether Keston Hiura is part of it or not. It was one game. Brew4U is correct in saying that the inconsistency of the starting pitching staff in particular after Woodruff and Davies has been a much bigger problem than a perceived lack of offense, one game withstanding. A problem, albeit smaller, is the lack of one more reliever that can be counted on in late-game situations.

 

That's some seriously strange logic. Because pitching is a bigger problem it excuses not making a simple smaller fix?

[adambr2]

You should always want to improve an area of your team if possible, even if it's already good. Improvement isn't just limited to areas of weakness. Always look to get better.

 

No one is saying or thinking that Hiura is going to solve every problem on the team, but all we really need to ask is if he makes us a better team.

[tmwiese55]

He's not saying that. He's saying that all the talk and angst on fans is about this but for some reason they're not talking about the massive glaring weakness that is really the one costing us games. Coming up with scenarios, trades, whatever on that topic instead. When in reality having had Hiura up likely has not cost them any games yet because the pitching has been getting worked.

 

But yes in general, the topics are mutually exclusive. No one should argue that point.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

This team is going to have games where the offense looks like crap, whether Keston Hiura is part of it or not. It was one game. Brew4U is correct in saying that the inconsistency of the starting pitching staff in particular after Woodruff and Davies has been a much bigger problem than a perceived lack of offense, one game withstanding. A problem, albeit smaller, is the lack of one more reliever that can be counted on in late-game situations.

 

That's some seriously strange logic. Because pitching is a bigger problem it excuses not making a simple smaller fix?

 

What I believe Brew4U is saying, and what I followed up on, is that calling up Keston Hiura is far from a cure-all. In fact, it can certainly be argued that the the offense doesn't even need fixing. Certainly consistency is as issue, but what prolific offensive team doesn't have issues with consistency? Would Hiura help cure some of those consistency issues? Yeah, probably. But so would getting a few of the scuffling, major league-proven bats going too.

 

I think at this point it is safe to say Hiura will be back up soon, and likely for good. The Brewers need to figure out who exactly he's going to displace, and they need to exercise due diligence in that decision. We may not all like it as fans, but they are playing this the right way.

[pacopete4]

Yes, a couple others have illustrated my point now. I do think Hiura is going to be awesome. I also am not sure he’s ready to play second base. So I go both ways on this situation.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

He's not saying that. He's saying that all the talk and angst on fans is about this but for some reason they're not talking about the massive glaring weakness that is really the one costing us games. Coming up with scenarios, trades, whatever on that topic instead. When in reality having had Hiura up likely has not cost them any games yet because the pitching has been getting worked.

 

But yes in general, the topics are mutually exclusive. No one should argue that point.

 

Really? It seems like 90% of the posts on this forum are either complaints about the pitching or exploring ways to improve it.

[brewerfan82]

15 days ago the Brewers optioned Hiura to AAA and "hoped" they'd be covered against LHP by giving those starts at 2B to Hernan Perez who had been mashing LHP well above his career numbers in a small sample.

 

Here are Perez's numbers over the last 15 days while Hiura has been away...

 

22 AB, 4 H, 0 XBH, 1 RBI, 2 BB, 5 SO, .182 AVG, .240 OBP, .182 SLG, .422 OPS

 

Needless to say, not what they were hoping for.

Hernan Perez vs. LHP:

2016 - .787 OPS in 153 ABs

2017 - .789 OPS in 120 ABs

2018 - .783 OPS in 125 ABs

2019 - .803 OPS in 69 ABS

 

He's not a masher by any means, but he's been pretty consistently good versus lefties the past three and half years and certainly is a useful player in that role. It's not a permanent move, I think it's fine for a short term solution until they want to bring Hiura up for good.

 

Also, as a team since Hiura was demoted, the Brewers are OPS'ing .836 versus lefties (7th best in the majors). So while I can't disagree the team isn't better with Hiura on it, I don't feel like the argument that the team is awful against lefties is a valid one.

[Fear The Chorizo]

The stats have shown that the hand the pitcher has thrown with, hasn’t made a difference in our offensive production. While Hiura may be our best RH bat (very debatable), it the least of the concerns for Stearns right now. Hook an co. need to figure out our pitchers or go find some arms down the road.

 

 

Dubon making a case to come up as well. And he’s probably actually good at defense. I think I’d rather see him right now as he would provide some depth to Arcia as well.

 

 

The stats show that because Yelich and Moose have been fantastic at hitting LHP and have covered for the inconsistent at best production from the rightanded hitters on the team.

 

Against RHP:

 

2019 Brewers LH bats against - 0.900 OPS roughly 1050 plate appearances

2019 Brewer RH bats against - 0.657 OPS roughly 1000 plate appearances

 

basically a huge platoon advantage against RHP, however the Brewers still field a good # of righthanded batters who sport a collective poor OPS. Admittedly, some of that is skewed with brewers' pitcher ABs.

 

Against LHP:

 

2019 Brewers LH bats against - 0.841 OPS roughly 300 plate appearances

2019 Brewers RH bats against 0.762 OPS roughly 500 plate appearances

 

basically a huge platoon disadvantage against LHP - Brewers have actively tried stacking their lineups against lefty pitching with righthanded bats, and they haven't gotten the job done. That RH bat 0.762 OPS is helped a ton by Grandal's 1.007 OPS over almost 90 of the 500 plate appearances, so the rest of the Brewer righthanded bats really haven't done much damage against lefties.

[KeithStone53151]

I tried earlier to find a way to filter Brewers players stats in June against LHP. I can filter one or the other, but not both. I'm very curious how we've handled LHP since Hiura was sent down. I'm thinking very poorly based on what I've seen. And most damage against LHP this month has probably come from Moose or Yelich...or Pina who in limited at bats apparently only hits bombs lately(definitely an argument to be made to start Pina vs some LHP and Grandal at 1b).

 

Shaw is still missing way too many hittable pitches, but he's been serviceable since his return. 231/375/385...that's not what you hope for(or what Hiura likely provides) but it's certainly not severely hurting the team.

[brewerfan82]

Against LHP:

 

2019 Brewers LH bats against - 0.841 OPS roughly 300 plate appearances

2019 Brewers RH bats against 0.762 OPS roughly 500 plate appearances

 

basically a huge platoon disadvantage against LHP - Brewers have actively tried stacking their lineups against lefty pitching with righthanded bats, and they haven't gotten the job done. That RH bat 0.762 OPS is helped a ton by Grandal's 1.007 OPS over almost 90 of the 500 plate appearances, so the rest of the Brewer righthanded bats really haven't done much damage against lefties.

And yet as a team they're 6th in the NL with a .791 OPS against lefties. You may not like the distribution, but you've got three guys in the middle of the order mashing them (Yelich 1.062 OPS, Grandal 1.007 OPS, and Moustakas .922 OPS) and you have Perez doing just fine with a .803 OPS. So with Moustakas and Perez covering 2B/3B, there's not a huge drop in production without Hiura.

 

 

The real problem causing the depth issue is that there are a handful of guys that are uncharacteristically struggling against lefties this year: Aguilar (.889 OPS in '17, .929 OPS in '18), Braun (1.010 OPS in '16, .872 OPS in '17, .863 OPS in '18), and Cain (1.016 OPS in '16, .824 OPS in '17, .979 OPS in '18) and you're not going to replace them with Hiura (or move Perez to their positions) when he's brought up anyways. If those guys get going, this lineup is insane against lefties. In the meantime, the team is holding its own against lefties regardless and there are much more pressing concerns in the pitching department to address.

[brewerfan82]

I tried earlier to find a way to filter Brewers players stats in June against LHP. I can filter one or the other, but not both. I'm very curious how we've handled LHP since Hiura was sent down. I'm thinking very poorly based on what I've seen. And most damage against LHP this month has probably come from Moose or Yelich...or Pina who in limited at bats apparently only hits bombs lately(definitely an argument to be made to start Pina vs some LHP and Grandal at 1b)..

This is what you're looking for: https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/splits-leaderboards?splitArr=1&splitArrPitch=&position=B&autoPt=false&splitTeams=false&statType=team&statgroup=2&startDate=2019-06-03&endDate=2019-11-01&players=&filter=

 

They're 7th in MLB with an .836 OPS against lefties since June 3rd.

[brewerfan82]

If you wanted the individual player stats against lefties since June 3rd, check this out: https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/splits-leaderboards?splitArr=1,218&splitArrPitch=&position=B&autoPt=false&splitTeams=false&statType=player&statgroup=2&startDate=2019-06-03&endDate=2019-11-01&players=&filter=

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

I could care less about stats against LHP since June 3rd - TBH their june schedule is cake and the lefty pitching they've faced over the past few weeks isn't full of Cy Young contenders. I'd rather look at season to date stats and even go back to including 2018 numbers for these guys, since Hiura was really only up a couple weeks. The season to date stats and even 2018 stats point to this team having a weakness against lefty pitching. From purely a roster management perspective they are lefty-heavy - teams like the Cubs and Dodgers have taken advantage of that at times. That's the primary reason DS felt the need to try and trade for Schoop last deadline and likely factored in signing Grandal and calling up Hiura sooner than even his biggest fans had anticipated.

 

I'm not saying without Hiura's righthanded bat the Brewers are terrible against lefties - my point is with it they are better, and likely also better against righties unless Shaw goes on a tear.

[brewerfan82]

I could care less about stats since June 3rd - I'd rather look at season to date stats and even go back to including 2018 numbers for these guys, since Hiura was really only up a couple weeks. The season to date stats and even 2018 stats point to this team having a weakness against lefty pitching. From purely a roster management perspective they are lefty-heavy - teams like the Cubs and Dodgers have taken advantage of that at times. That's the primary reason DS felt the need to try and trade for Schoop last deadline and likely factored in signing Grandal and calling up Hiura sooner than even his biggest fans had anticipated.

 

I'm not saying without Hiura's righthanded bat the Brewers are terrible against lefties - my point is with it they are better, and likely also better against righties unless Shaw goes on a tear.

The stats I replied to your comment with were full season stats. They're 6th in the NL in OPS against lefties this season (last year they were 4th in the NL) and that's with three players that have mashed lefties the past two/three seasons underperforming in that category thus far this year. If those guys get going like they usually do (and it looks like Aguilar's at least starting to show something), then this team is looking very good against LHP.

[Fear The Chorizo]

If Yelich, Moose, and Grandal perform to career norms against LHP this year, the Brewers drop towards the bottom of the NL statistically against LHP. 6th in the NL actually really is disappointing when your best producers are either lefthanded bats and a switch hitting catcher whose weak side is hitting righthanded.

[brewerfan82]

Yelich vs. lefties ('16 - '18): .814 OPS

Grandal vs. lefties ('16 - '18): .724 OPS

Moustakas vs. lefties ('16 - '18): .746 OPS

---

Braun vs. lefties ('16 - '18): .917 OPS

Aguilar vs. lefties ('16 - '18): .908 OPS

Cain vs. lefties ('16 - '18): .933 OPS

 

If we're looking at numbers before this season, I'm pretty cool with those numbers as well. Again, I'm not arguing that Hiura's not an improvement (and I doubt the Brewers would argue against that either), just this seems to be higher on people's lists of concerns than it probably needs to be for something that's only temporary and only against a quarter of the competition. We've got lefties mashing lefties, righties that are likely to hit better against lefties moving forward, Hiura's going to be up again, Perez can hold fort in the meantime (and help fill in later), let's see if we can figure out a way to get the starting pitching out of the bottom half of the league.

[wntrtxn21]

It's hard to say our offense is scuffling too much. In June we are 8th in OPS with a .302 BABIP...so luck has probably been roughly average. We've scored about 5 runs per game in June, that should win us a lot of games. The problem is pitching, specifically starting pitching. The Brewers starters have a 5.86 ERA in June, with a 4.37 FIP and 3.96 xFIP and .345 BABIP. You can definitely argue the starters have been unlucky this month, but still overall not great. Also 70 innings in 14 starts or exactly 5 innings per start. Certainly not great.

 

Overall, I think the Brewers struggling a bit lately is more related to luck going a bit against them after luck has generally been on their side the first couple months based on production. As much as Hiura is the better option, it's hard to blame Shaw specifically for our 8-6 start to the month of June.

 

The Brewer pitchers allowed a lot of hard hit balls in many of the June games. High pitch counts have been far too prevalent for many of the starters. They are far too often behind in the count which leads to a higher BABIP and many baserunners. In June the ERA was deserved rather than unlucky.

[KeithStone53151]

If you wanted the individual player stats against lefties since June 3rd, check this out: https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/splits-leaderboards?splitArr=1,218&splitArrPitch=&position=B&autoPt=false&splitTeams=false&statType=player&statgroup=2&startDate=2019-06-03&endDate=2019-11-01&players=&filter=

 

 

Thanks for finding this. It proves my point to a large degree. Yes, the team as a whole did ok against lefties(793 OPS including yesterdays dud), but all the damage was done by Yelich/Moose/Grandal for the most part. Aguilar has been solid and Pina's 7 atbats have been very good, but it's mostly the other 3 guys that are simply hot at the plate against all pitching. Cain, Braun, Arcia, Perez...those are guys that should be hitting LHP and have been terrible. It's a bit of a problem when we basically have 3 guys hitting. Hiura would be a 4th if he were up.

[shanedog19]

I’m surprised the team hasn’t sent Shaw down to work on his swing. They sent Arcia and Knebel down in the past, why are they so hesitant with Shaw? Is it because he isn’t a homegrown player and they don’t have the same comfort level in doing it with a player they didn’t start with? That’s my only explanation at this point. It may be a moot point for a bit if Moose has to go on the DL.

[KeithStone53151]

I’m surprised the team hasn’t sent Shaw down to work on his swing. They sent Arcia and Knebel down in the past, why are they so hesitant with Shaw? Is it because he isn’t a homegrown player and they don’t have the same comfort level in doing it with a player they didn’t start with? That’s my only explanation at this point. It may be a moot point for a bit if Moose has to go on the DL.

 

Many feel the same as you. My opinion, I would never have brought him back so quickly. I would have kept him in the minors for more like a month to hopefully get right. But now that we have, I think we give him a bit more time before we go the option route.

[Fear The Chorizo]

the embedded file shows 2019 season long batting #'s for the Brewers against LHP...which hammers the point home even more that the righthanded bats who should be carrying the offensive load against southpaws just aren't getting it done. When lefty starters can essentially pitch around Yelich, Moose, and Grandal as necessary to then attack the righthanded bats, it's pretty sad.

[MrTPlush]

I’m surprised the team hasn’t sent Shaw down to work on his swing. They sent Arcia and Knebel down in the past, why are they so hesitant with Shaw? Is it because he isn’t a homegrown player and they don’t have the same comfort level in doing it with a player they didn’t start with? That’s my only explanation at this point. It may be a moot point for a bit if Moose has to go on the DL.

 

I don't know the explanation....but having to do with being homegrown or not I promise you has nothing to do with it. That just doesn't really make any sense to me. Also Knebel isn't homegrown and his demotion lasted a grand 3.2 innings before getting recalled on September 1st. Likely only demoted to shuffle the roster until September. Hardly much of a demotion.