Keston Hiura called up, Shaw optioned

[jerichoholicninja]

Maybe this has been addressed already but it looks like Shaw had a little over a week left on his rehab assignment. Why did a decision have to be made now? It's not like there are pitchers involved and fresh arms were needed.

 

My best guess is that the team's medical staff deemed him healthy. It's a rehab assignment, not an option to AAA. When players are deemed recovered from their injury, it is expected that they are activated.

 

Was he even really injured in the first place? (25% blue)

 

Guys aren't going to play anywhere if they are hurt. A rehab assignment isn't about getting healthy it's about getting AB's to shake off the rust. Maybe Shaw's "rust" is gone but nothing he did against inferior AAA was very inspiring.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Maybe this has been addressed already but it looks like Shaw had a little over a week left on his rehab assignment. Why did a decision have to be made now? It's not like there are pitchers involved and fresh arms were needed.

 

My best guess is that the team's medical staff deemed him healthy. It's a rehab assignment, not an option to AAA. When players are deemed recovered from their injury, it is expected that they are activated.

 

Was he even really injured in the first place? (25% blue)

 

Guys aren't going to play anywhere if they are hurt. A rehab assignment isn't about getting healthy it's about getting AB's to shake off the rust. Maybe Shaw's "rust" is gone but nothing he did against inferior AAA was very inspiring.

 

I've always thought that stats put up during rehab assignments are about as useful as Spring Training stats when determining future production.

[And That]

But say we just say, "I'm done with this Aguilar crap! He stinks!" and cut him.

 

Now imagine Moustakas really breaks his hand.

This is kind of a false choice, though, no? I'm looking at Taylor Williams and Justin Barnes out there in the bullpen and the schedule says the Brewers have 3 more days off in the next 3 weeks after having a day off yesterday, with a relatively easy schedule, and I don't think the Brewers need to have two basically mop-up relievers out there right now.

 

If it comes to actually needing that 8th bullpen arm, that's where I make the decision on Hiura/Shaw/Aguilar. The can can still be kicked.

[MrTPlush]

I've always thought that stats put up during rehab assignments are about as useful as Spring Training stats when determining future production.

 

Well Shaw was an atrocity in spring training was he not?

 

Not saying it makes it more or less meaningful...just interesting. Shaw was good at the end of his rehab assignment. Once he got past his first 4 games or so he started settling in. Walks started, Ks dropped, and then he got hits.

[bill hAll Star]

But say we just say, "I'm done with this Aguilar crap! He stinks!" and cut him.

 

Now imagine Moustakas really breaks his hand.

This is kind of a false choice, though, no? I'm looking at Taylor Williams and Justin Barnes out there in the bullpen and the schedule says the Brewers have 3 more days off in the next 3 weeks after having a day off yesterday, with a relatively easy schedule, and I don't think the Brewers need to have two basically mop-up relievers out there right now.

 

If it comes to actually needing that 8th bullpen arm, that's where I make the decision on Hiura/Shaw/Aguilar. The can can still be kicked.

 

Well, somewhat.

 

I think they are OK with Thames or Aguilar being a bench bat depending on matchups or who is hitting well.

 

But Hiura cannot be a bench bat and I don't think they want to make Shaw a bench bat -- yet. They want to give him one more shot against some mediocre RHP to get it going again. I think that is the logjam for now. I guess you can start Shaw at 1B most nights against RHP but they probably want one of Thames/Aguilar hitting a bit more regularly.

[And That]

I'm mostly concerned about getting the best lineup on the field and to me, and I really think there are enough PAs to go around between 1B/2B/3B for Moose/Shaw/Thames/Hiura/Aguilar, depending on pitching matchups. It also gives them an extra bench bat, which is more valuable than the low leverage mop-up innings of an 8th reliever if you can get away with it.

[clancyphile]

Through all this, my overriding take is that we're having a hard time deciding which great or potentially (historically?) great player(s) we leave out of the lineup. As a Brewer fan it was not always thus!

 

Yep. That is very true. Why, oh why, did Keith Ginter not start every day at second base?

[Brew crew 92]

I'm mostly concerned about getting the best lineup on the field and to me, and I really think there are enough PAs to go around between 1B/2B/3B for Moose/Shaw/Thames/Hiura/Aguilar, depending on pitching matchups. It also gives them an extra bench bat, which is more valuable than the low leverage mop-up innings of an 8th reliever if you can get away with it.

 

I totally agree, trying to convince CC of that another story.

[xisxisxis]

Since when is 29 years old past his prime? Sheesh!

Have you read any of the studies of mlb performance related to age? If yes, what is your interpretation? If no, try to educate yourself with a little reading.

[stoutdude04]

Okay, Shaw is back. Fine. Put him at 2nd and keep Moose at 3rd please. I am sure I am biased, or something, but Moose just seems so much better at 3rd than Shaw, and they seem equal at 2nd.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Since when is 29 years old past his prime? Sheesh!

Have you read any of the studies of mlb performance related to age? If yes, what is your interpretation? If no, try to educate yourself with a little reading.

 

Most everything I've read on the subject points to ages 26-29 as a player's prime, but of course that is left to some interpretation. In any case, most times the drop off in production between 28 and 31 is not massive. I feel comfortable knowing that Shaw is Brewers property through his age 31 season, but I don't think I'd look to extend him past that. There is no reason why he wouldn't be able to put up an approximation of what we've seen out of him the last two seasons, though, for the next 2 1/2 years.

[SeaBass]

Since when is 29 years old past his prime? Sheesh!

Have you read any of the studies of mlb performance related to age? If yes, what is your interpretation? If no, try to educate yourself with a little reading.

 

Most everything I've read on the subject points to ages 26-29 as a player's prime, but of course that is left to some interpretation. In any case, most times the drop off in production between 28 and 31 is not massive. I feel comfortable knowing that Shaw is Brewers property through his age 31 season, but I don't think I'd look to extend him past that. There is no reason why he wouldn't be able to put up an approximation of what we've seen out of him the last two seasons, though, for the next 2 1/2 years.

I admire the heck out of this response.

 

Further, even if studies and estimates and wagers and hypotheses are all taken into account it still goes by the wayside when it comes to the individual player. It's only a guide, it isn't gospel.

[Roderick]

Long term. Long term..........

Unfortunately, the Brewers have a very difficult division that they can win this year.

 

By the way, cut it out with the "people need to wrap their minds around this" and eye roll type stuff.

 

Sure they can. And I'm guessing that is a priority. As pointed out by another poster, their record did not drastically improve with Hiura on this team so that mindset might be a little off with how they are going about roster construction.

 

Small sample size, but you brought it up.

 

Actually the record put up by a poster would equate to five more wins over a season. With Hiura versus before Hiura.

 

A .558 winning percentage vs a .588 winning percentage.

 

That is quite a bit in any playoff contenders season. Heck teams trade assets and pay a high priced reliever like Soria to try and squeeze 1 or 2 more wins out of a season.

[Roderick]

I'm mostly concerned about getting the best lineup on the field and to me, and I really think there are enough PAs to go around between 1B/2B/3B for Moose/Shaw/Thames/Hiura/Aguilar, depending on pitching matchups. It also gives them an extra bench bat, which is more valuable than the low leverage mop-up innings of an 8th reliever if you can get away with it.

 

I agree there is a mix that would work and keep all five with enough at bats, but I don't see dropping from 13 pitchers in the pen. At least not until you can have pretty good confidence in both Houser and Burnes to go two innings if you need them. Houser is getting closer to that comfortable zone for me. But Burnes still has a ways to go.

[MrTPlush]

I am sorry, but how can anyone possibly think using our winning percentage before and after Hiura after 17 games actually holds any water? I mean lets be real guys...that is really stretching it.

[clancyphile]

I'm mostly concerned about getting the best lineup on the field and to me, and I really think there are enough PAs to go around between 1B/2B/3B for Moose/Shaw/Thames/Hiura/Aguilar, depending on pitching matchups. It also gives them an extra bench bat, which is more valuable than the low leverage mop-up innings of an 8th reliever if you can get away with it.

 

I agree. Hernan Perez can be the designated mop-up guy. He's pitched well enough in that role to warrant keeping an extra bat.

 

Now, if you can get one or two other position players who also can do that...

[topper09er]

I am sorry, but how can anyone possibly think using our winning percentage before and after Hiura after 17 games actually holds any water? I mean lets be real guys...that is really stretching it.

 

I know. The Angels are 26-30 in Mike Trout games, I guess he sucks now.

 

Shaw's OPS is barely higher than Hiura's SLG right now. Hiura's batting average against lefties is higher than Shaw's OPS against them right now...by 100 points.

[adambr2]

I lean more toward disagree with this move. I get it, and I wasn't looking to give up on Shaw, but this team has proven to be plenty creative in the past when it comes to keeping as many good players rostered as possible. They could have found a way around this if they wanted to. In no way is Hiura not one of our 8 best hitters.

 

This is 80% about service time manipulation to avoid Super 2. I get that they can't come out and say that, but that's what this is.

 

That being said....Hiura has been good, not great. He made the decision difficult, but not impossible. If he's sitting here OPSing 1.100, they probably avoid this move and say screw the Super 2. Not fair, but that's just the position he was in. He had to hit at an elite level immediately to stay, not just very good.

 

Shaw needs to start hitting. Or Aguilar. Preferably, both.

[ThisIsMyCrew]

With the recent moves, struggles, etc with our players...which what are the odds that Shaw re establishes some value to be traded? Any? Just don’t see how we can keep Shaw, Moose, Aguilar, Thames, Arcia, Perez and Hiura in the infield. Maybe Aguilar is the odd man out in that scenario.

[Lathund]

I'm definitely leaning towards Aguilar being the odd man out soon(ish) unless there's a very drastic improvement. Less of a track record than either Shaw or Thames, and if you factor in the second half of last season where he was OK but not more, his "slump" has lasted longer. He also suffers from the fact that he can only play 1B (Not that I like seeing Thames in the OF, but for the odd game here and there his bat makes it sufferable) unlike the others, and he's a truly terrible baserunner. RHH first basemen also aren't the most highly valued assets out there; the last couple of offseaons saw guys like Corey Dickerson and CJ Cron DFAd or non-tendered (And Aguilar himself was a waiver claim) so while losing Aguilar for nothing or for very little wouldn't be ideal, it's also not that hard to find a decent replacement should one be needed in the future. Or it shouldn't be that hard, even if the Brewers did struggle with it post-Prince and pre-Stearns.

 

With a starting lineup that would consist of two of Shaw, Thames and Moustakas in the IF most days (Unless Perez started) it would be rather LH heavy, but at the same time they'd face twice as many (or more) RH starters than LH so it wouldn't be that big of an issue.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

Shaw is now batting 1.000 since his return. I think some of you owe Stearns an apology

[wntrtxn21]

With the recent moves, struggles, etc with our players...which what are the odds that Shaw re establishes some value to be traded? Any? Just don’t see how we can keep Shaw, Moose, Aguilar, Thames, Arcia, Perez and Hiura in the infield. Maybe Aguilar is the odd man out in that scenario.

 

Aguilar being out of the picture really doesn't help Hiura that much. Either Shaw or Moustakas is going to play 2B most of the time so Hiura would be on the bench unless a LH throws. Either way he wouldn't be playing on a regular basis. Better to go down and play almost every day. If Stearns could get something decent for either Shaw or Thames, the problem is solved.

[torts]

I am sorry, but how can anyone possibly think using our winning percentage before and after Hiura after 17 games actually holds any water? I mean lets be real guys...that is really stretching it.

 

I know. The Angels are 26-30 in Mike Trout games, I guess he sucks now.

 

Shaw's OPS is barely higher than Hiura's SLG right now. Hiura's batting average against lefties is higher than Shaw's OPS against them right now...by 100 points.

 

small sample size

[MrTPlush]

With the recent moves, struggles, etc with our players...which what are the odds that Shaw re establishes some value to be traded? Any? Just don’t see how we can keep Shaw, Moose, Aguilar, Thames, Arcia, Perez and Hiura in the infield. Maybe Aguilar is the odd man out in that scenario.

 

Aguilar being out of the picture really doesn't help Hiura that much. Either Shaw or Moustakas is going to play 2B most of the time so Hiura would be on the bench unless a LH throws. Either way he wouldn't be playing on a regular basis. Better to go down and play almost every day. If Stearns could get something decent for either Shaw or Thames, the problem is solved.

 

Why? Is there a reason Shaw can't play first? In his career he has played essentially an entire season there and has 3 errors. Errors aren't everything, but clearly he isn't some smoking disaster there. In 2016 and 2018 combined he had 350 innings of errorless baseball. I think he would be perfectly fine there. Yes, Thames/Shaw both at 1B isn't the most logistical roster move, but I would rather have that than the waste of space Aguilar on the roster if it comes to that. If Thames' bat warrants playing time it is easy to shuffle guys around to stick him in the OF if need be.

 

Isn't like our OF is all that impressive. Despite a few big hits that make some think otherwise Ben Gamel is not that special and exactly what he has always been and Ryan Braun is a 35 year old human again. If you don't want Thames or Shaw against a lefty you could either stick Perez at 1B or Moustakas then Perez at 3B.

 

Thames/Shaw at first base reminds me of (2011?) when we had zero lefties in the pen, but hey...if your best pitchers are righties then just have all righties. No reason to conform to the norm just to do it.

[shanedog19]

I just hate it that we don't have out best lineup out there with Hiura back at San Antonio. All of these games are so critical with the Cubs now getting Kimbrel. Not that having Hiura in the lineup would have mattered the past two nights.