Keston Hiura called up, Shaw optioned

[And That]

Hiura isn't going anywhere.

He's going to AAA.

[pacopete4]

Hiura isn't going anywhere.

He's going to AAA.

Long term. Long term..........

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Maybe this has been addressed already but it looks like Shaw had a little over a week left on his rehab assignment. Why did a decision have to be made now? It's not like there are pitchers involved and fresh arms were needed.

 

My best guess is that the team's medical staff deemed him healthy. It's a rehab assignment, not an option to AAA. When players are deemed recovered from their injury, it is expected that they are activated.

[KeithStone53151]

One thing I'll concede on this Shaw decision, the next 2 games have some fairly weak RHP for him to face. It's like AAAA caliber at best. Pablo Lopez is extremely vanilla for a SP. 92-95 FB with mediocre curve and change...and 5 ERA. Lopez also generally fills the zone, so Shaw should see some less than elite pitches to hit. Alcantara has better, but not elite stuff. Also he struggles with control. Shaw's eye at the plate has remained solid despite his inability to make contact with anything, so theoretically he could get some very good pitches to hit or could produce a couple walks or something if he's off. Maybe the opponent and probable pitchers played into the decision a bit, though I still disagree.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Hiura isn't going anywhere. He will get plenty of MLB at bats. He is nowhere near a finished product. Making sure you give your 3B now and for the foreseeable future, a chance to get out of his mess should and is a priority for the Brewers.

 

The priority for the Brewers should be winning major league baseball games. By all appearances and measureables, sending Hiura away weakens the major league roster and runs contradictory to that goal.

[Jopal78]

In 336 games with the Brewers Shaw has hit 67 home runs, and has played solid defense. Matt Williams was another player who averaged 32+ homers a year, with solid defense and low on base percentage and he played for 17 years in the big leagues. Given Shaw's track record of the type of player he can be; they're going to give him every opportunity to get straightened out.

 

Knee jerk reactions like dropping a successful player who is in a prolonged slump is the type of move that helps GMs get fired.

[Surhoff5]

We're in an unusual situation where we have a lot of established guys that aren't hitting, and a young elite prospect came up and mashed for 3 weeks. It's not like the other option is throwing Perez in at 2b. If that was the case, I'd be more open to giving Shaw a chance. And my stance on him is more time in AAA to find his swing, or we cut bait with one of the 1b to keep hiura around and let shaw start more at 1b. The best decision is to let him see slightly worse pitching in AAA for a bit and try and figure things out there. The decision yesterday made the team worse in the short run and the long run in my opinion...so I'm really struggling to see how it's a win.

 

So Hiura posted a 121 OPS+ in 17 games and "mashed", but yet Thames has posted a 122 OPS+ in over 50 games and you may want to cut bait with him? Literally six days ago, Hiura wasn't mashing and if it wasn't for his awful defense on the double-play last Saturday, he doesn't hit the tying HR off Vázquez.

 

I am not saying I agree with the decision, but if you take a step back, you can see where the Brewers are coming from.

 

He started a bit slow and has improved since starting slow his first few games beyond a promotion. It's also really weird you are trying to minimize that fact that he hit a HR off Vazquez...that's incredibly impressive regardless of if it relates to an error. I bet Shaw couldn't hit a HR off Vazquez is he had 100 tries right now, heck he might not be able to even foul a pitch off against Vazquez in 100 AB right now. Hiura isn't as consistent defensively as he needs to be, but he's still better at 2b than either of Shaw/Moose.

 

I am not trying to minimize at all. It was incredibly impressive, but it doesn't happen w/o him costing the team four runs (yes I realize Woody could have pitched better after it happened). I just think you are the one trying to minimize how bad he was defensively. Moose UZR/150 at 2B is -3.9 and Hiura is at -30.4.

[And That]

Long term. Long term..........

Unfortunately, the Brewers have a very difficult division that they can win this year.

 

By the way, cut it out with the "people need to wrap their minds around this" and eye roll type stuff.

[pacopete4]

Long term. Long term..........

Unfortunately, the Brewers have a very difficult division that they can win this year.

 

By the way, cut it out with the "people need to wrap their minds around this" and eye roll type stuff.

 

Sure they can. And I'm guessing that is a priority. As pointed out by another poster, their record did not drastically improve with Hiura on this team so that mindset might be a little off with how they are going about roster construction.

[SeaBass]

We're in an unusual situation where we have a lot of established guys that aren't hitting, and a young elite prospect came up and mashed for 3 weeks. It's not like the other option is throwing Perez in at 2b. If that was the case, I'd be more open to giving Shaw a chance. And my stance on him is more time in AAA to find his swing, or we cut bait with one of the 1b to keep hiura around and let shaw start more at 1b. The best decision is to let him see slightly worse pitching in AAA for a bit and try and figure things out there. The decision yesterday made the team worse in the short run and the long run in my opinion...so I'm really struggling to see how it's a win.

He didn't just straight out mash for 3 straight weeks. He had a .700 OPS just 5 games ago.

 

Each of the guys they've chosen to keep on the roster for now has had better stretches of success than Hiura just did.

 

Aguilar had an excellent half of baseball last year, and aside from that was solid at best the balance of last year and the prior year. Thames had that great first month in a Brewer uniform and was overall decent at best beyond that. Guys that produce like Thames/Aguilar are not THAT difficult to find. So many examples of mashing 1b coming out of nowhere. Shaw has the most solid track record of the 3, but I honestly cannot handle watching him swing through meatballs down the middle over and over and over anymore. I'll turn the damn game off the first time I see him do it. This move was rushed, it could have waited another couple weeks and didn't have to happen now. To be clear, I'm not advocating for cutting Shaw. He's the last of the 3 we should cut ties with. But he's not ready to start at the MLB level.

I mean, yeah. The Brewers are in a roster crunch right now compounded with some guys that are under performing expectations. I personally would have chosen to keep Hiura on the 25 man, I've stated this. However I do understand the team's decision to send him down.

 

I can envision pretty easily a roster without Thames, Aguilar and even Shaw, all 3 gone. I just don't think it's going to happen overnight. Fortunately they don't need to get rid of all 3 guys right now, they only need to figure out how to move one of them. The Brewers are buying time and if it's coming at the cost of waiting a little longer on a promising rookie so be it. I 100% feel that's the correct sacrifice. This will be resolved. This "right now" attitude is just an extremely flawed way of viewing the situation.

[Outlander]

Long term. Long term..........

Unfortunately, the Brewers have a very difficult division that they can win this year.

 

By the way, cut it out with the "people need to wrap their minds around this" and eye roll type stuff.

Definitely not unfortunate as I have seen plenty of bad baseball but I also wish they put the best players out there to win every game when they do have the talent to win the division and more.

[pacopete4]

Definitely not unfortunate as I have seen plenty of bad baseball

 

Yes, it might be overstated about how good our division really is this year.

[Jopal78]

To tamp down the over emphasis on the importance of Hiura.

 

His 9 RBIs all came on home runs, I saw him play the last game of the series in Philadelphia. He came up with runners in scoring position nearly every time and struck out four times along with a fly out. The point being, he hasn't been a RBI machine despite having baserunners on ahead of him.

 

He struck out in 1/3 of his at bats. As Keon Broxton, Domingo Santana, Jonathan Villar, Brett Phillips, Chris Carter, etc. have proven its a quick ticket out of Milwaukee with this GM.

 

Also, Hiura's fielding wasn't great. Ultimately the bat will play, but again this is a front office that values defense and versatility. Hiura only plays one spot, and didn't field that position very well.

 

The conclusion here is: Hiura was an exciting player no doubt, but he didn't come up and exactly play with no flaws to his game.

[MrTPlush]

Hiura isn't going anywhere. He will get plenty of MLB at bats. He is nowhere near a finished product. Making sure you give your 3B now and for the foreseeable future, a chance to get out of his mess should and is a priority for the Brewers.

 

The priority for the Brewers should be winning major league baseball games. By all appearances and measureables, sending Hiura away weakens the major league roster and runs contradictory to that goal.

 

1) Shaw comes back and hits.

 

2) Aguilar is dumped.

 

3) Hiura comes back in a few weeks.

 

Brewers are better.

[3and2Fastball]

My initial reaction was one of disappointment & anger, that the move was all about Keston's service time. I suppose, though, as someone else said, that he was likely told when he came up "this is just while Travis is rehabbing his injury and then you are going back down."

 

Keston is quickly becoming my favorite player, but he could improve some defensively, and he was striking out at a higher rate in MLB than he ever did in the minors, so there are certainly things he can work on while back in San Antonio. He does look like he can be a very special player. He can really hit. I would imagine if Shaw continues to struggle we'll see Hiura back up sooner rather than later....

[bill hAll Star]

Anytime you can start a guy with a 550 OPS, you have to do it.

 

Just wondering how you felt about Arcia last year, Santana last year, Anderson last year/ST this year, Davies last year, Knebel for parts of last year, etc.

 

Non-superstar players go through dry spells/turn things around. I can't even tell you if that's going to be Shaw/Aguilar. I understand that maybe they could stash Shaw in AAA instead, but otherwise, the Brewers believe Shaw is closer than what he was the last few years rather than the guy that has struggled/been unlucky for 40 games. If they start chopping guys for bad 40 game stints, they'll get to a point where they are 1 injury away from having to call the corpse of Kendrys Morales to start at 1B. They like to maintain organizational depth. Sometimes that involves tough decisions.

 

We're in an unusual situation where we have a lot of established guys that aren't hitting, and a young elite prospect came up and mashed for 3 weeks. It's not like the other option is throwing Perez in at 2b. If that was the case, I'd be more open to giving Shaw a chance. And my stance on him is more time in AAA to find his swing, or we cut bait with one of the 1b to keep hiura around and let shaw start more at 1b. The best decision is to let him see slightly worse pitching in AAA for a bit and try and figure things out there. The decision yesterday made the team worse in the short run and the long run in my opinion...so I'm really struggling to see how it's a win.

 

See, this is what I'm kinda getting at.

 

Yes, sometimes you have to either decide that Aguilar is what he is and that if something happens, he is replaceable on the waivers/bag of baseballs trade market. I don't know if that's what he is yet but I don't think so.

 

But say we just say, "I'm done with this Aguilar crap! He stinks!" and cut him.

 

Now imagine Moustakas really breaks his hand.

 

Here's your infield:

3B: Shaw, SS Arcia, 2B Hiura, 1B Thames

 

What happens if you face a lefty?

 

What happens in a rough patch where Thames pulls a hammy? Now you have zero reliable bench and are putting Nottingham or Braun at 1B or you're starting to make the Doug Melvin calls to the Yuni/Overbay types (Kendrys Morales).

[rcc]

I want Travis to do well tonight. For the past two years he has played through injuries and has done everything CC has asked of him. Yes Hiura did well and it's a shame he went back down. But CC and Stearns have confidence in Shaw and he needs to prove they are right. Feeling good and something to prove is a good thing.

[pacopete4]

I want Travis to do well tonight. For the past two years he has played through injuries and has done everything CC has asked of him. Yes Hiura did well and it's a shame he went back down. But CC and Stearns have confidence in Shaw and he needs to prove they are right. Feeling good and something to prove is a good thing.

 

Yes. It’d be great to hear a huge roar from the crowd tonight in support of Shaw but they’ll probably boo instead. Mostly because people are idiots.

[rcc]

Maybe a mix but I hope more cheers. His first hit should take care of things.

[KeithStone53151]

I want Travis to do well tonight. For the past two years he has played through injuries and has done everything CC has asked of him. Yes Hiura did well and it's a shame he went back down. But CC and Stearns have confidence in Shaw and he needs to prove they are right. Feeling good and something to prove is a good thing.

 

Yes. It’d be great to hear a huge roar from the crowd tonight in support of Shaw but they’ll probably boo instead. Mostly because people are idiots.

 

I can't imagine anyone would boo Shaw. That would be soooooooo ridiculous. I'm not upset with Shaw, I'm sure he's doing his best. I'm upset with management right now. I imagine others feel the same way.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I want Travis to do well tonight. For the past two years he has played through injuries and has done everything CC has asked of him. Yes Hiura did well and it's a shame he went back down. But CC and Stearns have confidence in Shaw and he needs to prove they are right. Feeling good and something to prove is a good thing.

 

Yes. It’d be great to hear a huge roar from the crowd tonight in support of Shaw but they’ll probably boo instead. Mostly because people are idiots.

 

I don't think they'll boo. Yeah, there are a few rotten fans who are part of this fanbase, but there are thousands of really good fans too. Fans that know that Shaw has been a stalwart of this lineup for the last two+ seasons.

 

Yeah, you're going to hear some jerks booing and hoping that Shaw fails. Those aren't fans. They're narcissists.

[bigredrobbo]

Through all this, my overriding take is that we're having a hard time deciding which great or potentially (historically?) great player(s) we leave out of the lineup. As a Brewer fan it was not always thus!

[Brew crew 92]

Imo, the bottom line in this whole situation is this:

 

Do you trust the fact that Stearn’s knows the true big picture, and if he wants Hiura down below, then there must be a good reason for what just happened. How do we know what’s going on behind the scenes?

 

Maybe he’s giving Shaw Aguilar Thames a certain amount of time to show him what direction to go via trade?

 

Point is, either we trust his decision making ability in this situation or we think we know better.

 

I’m going with the better track record.

[tmwiese55]

Really I'd be kicking the tires for teams on Aguilar. IDK enough about the AL teams 1B/DH situations but there is so many bad teams over there not trying to win that you'd think one would take a flyer on him and toss us some Adam Lind trade type prospects we might be able to get lucky on like with Freddy.

 

ETA: great post by BillHallstar last page that really nails it from a roster management perspective.

[And That]

Point is, either we trust his decision making ability in this situation or we think we know better.

Why is this an either/or?

 

I trust his decision-making ability and do not believe he is infallible. Old Russian proverb, trust but verify.