Keston Hiura called up, Shaw optioned

[SeaBass]

but pretending it's about anything other than service time manipulation is silly.

 

Silly to assume like it is 100% due to service time. Why did he even come up in the first place if service time was that big of an issue? Why go through all of this and tick off Hiura/the fanbase for a short stint just to dump him back down regardless of stats? I don't buy that argument and don't think a competing team is worried about massive hypotheticals over 4 years from now. That is like making decision due to a top prospect in A+ ball and assuming he will be a force in three years.

 

All signs point to it being about giving Shaw a chance to rebound, thus not making Hiura a part time guy...and also preserving the depth/versatility with the roster. They could have sent a pitcher away, but why do that? So Hiura plays once or twice a week?

 

Stearns never said it was about defense, that is just the excuse people say he could use for the reason. Hiura will be back after Shaw either doesn't hit or hits well enough to push someone off the roster. Unfortunately Thames is the one hitting right now because logistically he makes the most sense to boot off the roster for the lefty Shaw. Sadly for us the RHB Aguilar is stinking up the joint.

 

I also don't think Stearns is a dramatic person and realizes two weeks of Hiura gone is unlikely to be the difference in 5, 3, or even 2 wins. There will be at least a dozen non-moves or moves that will be way costlier than this and people are taking it way too seriously. Sticking with Aguilar or some bullpen arm blowing up constantly is probably five times more costly in the win column. Waiting till the end of July to make trades costs teams wins every single year. Claudio pitching against righties....way more costly.

 

This move is like any other move. There is risk, but a lot of reward too if Shaw starts hitting again.

This is very well thought out and expressed. I very much look forward to people completely ignoring it (some already are).

[tmwiese55]

How will this sit with Hiura and his agent down the road? Things like this tend to be remembered by players as a sign of disrespect.

 

That's a great point. I guarantee Kris Bryant and Boras remember how he was held back before being called up. They've tried locking him up long term and he's resisted. I would be very surprised if he stays in Chicago, barring an overpay. I feel like Bryant is going to end up on the Dodgers in 2-3 years when his team control is up.

 

Totally different situation. Hiura was an injury replace, and I'm sure he was told he'd be a temporary injury replacement. If the Brewers truly wanted to manipulate Hiura's service clock, they would have just brought up Saladino or Spangenberg to begin with, rather than calling up a guy with all of 6 weeks of AAA experience.

 

I totally get being bummed about Hiura going down, but I don't think trying to manufacture drama is the answer to justifying the move as a mistake.

 

Moreover, we're bringing him up this year as opposed to waiting until Mid April next year like Bryant and Vlad

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

but pretending it's about anything other than service time manipulation is silly.

 

Silly to assume like it is 100% due to service time. Why did he even come up in the first place if service time was that big of an issue? Why go through all of this and tick off Hiura/the fanbase for a short stint just to dump him back down regardless of stats? I don't buy that argument and don't think a competing team is worried about massive hypotheticals over 4 years from now. That is like making decision due to a top prospect in A+ ball and assuming he will be a force in three years.

 

All signs point to it being about giving Shaw a chance to rebound, thus not making Hiura a part time guy...and also preserving the depth/versatility with the roster. They could have sent a pitcher away, but why do that? So Hiura plays once or twice a week?

 

Stearns never said it was about defense, that is just the excuse people say he could use for the reason. Hiura will be back after Shaw either doesn't hit or hits well enough to push someone off the roster. Unfortunately Thames is the one hitting right now because logistically he makes the most sense to boot off the roster for the lefty Shaw. Sadly for us the RHB Aguilar is stinking up the joint.

 

I also don't think Stearns is a dramatic person and realizes two weeks of Hiura gone is unlikely to be the difference in 5, 3, or even 2 wins. There will be at least a dozen non-moves or moves that will be way costlier than this and people are taking it way too seriously. Sticking with Aguilar or some bullpen arm blowing up constantly is probably five times more costly in the win column. Waiting till the end of July to make trades costs teams wins every single year. Claudio pitching against righties....way more costly.

 

This move is like any other move. There is risk, but a lot of reward too if Shaw starts hitting again.

 

I wish we could put this post in a vial and inject it into everyone's veins. This is a perfect summation of the situation.

[And That]

They could have sent a pitcher away, but why do that? So Hiura plays once or twice a week?

Why does having Shaw on the roster force Hiura to sit on the bench?

[pacopete4]

They could have sent a pitcher away, but why do that? So Hiura plays once or twice a week?

Why does having Shaw on the roster force Hiura to sit on the bench?

 

Because they're not sitting Shaw and Moose. They will play 3B and 2B respectively.

[KeithStone53151]

They could have sent a pitcher away, but why do that? So Hiura plays once or twice a week?

Why does having Shaw on the roster force Hiura to sit on the bench?

 

Because they're not sitting Shaw and Moose. They will play 3B and 2B respectively.

 

Anytime you can start a guy with a 550 OPS, you have to do it.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

Anytime you can start a guy with a cumulative .844 OPS over the last two full seasons, you have to do it.

 

There, I fixed this to better reflect the situation. Shaw has played in 40 games this year.

 

Travis Shaw is on this team, whether you like it or not. Hoping he fails is an odd fan stance.

[And That]

Because they're not sitting Shaw and Moose. They will play 3B and 2B respectively.

Shaw can play first base, if they want to get him regular PAs. There is playing time for all three players especially given that Hiura is right-handed.

[bill hAll Star]

Why does having Shaw on the roster force Hiura to sit on the bench?

 

Because they're not sitting Shaw and Moose. They will play 3B and 2B respectively.

 

Anytime you can start a guy with a 550 OPS, you have to do it.

 

Just wondering how you felt about Arcia last year, Santana last year, Anderson last year/ST this year, Davies last year, Knebel for parts of last year, etc.

 

Non-superstar players go through dry spells/turn things around. I can't even tell you if that's going to be Shaw/Aguilar. I understand that maybe they could stash Shaw in AAA instead, but otherwise, the Brewers believe Shaw is closer than what he was the last few years rather than the guy that has struggled/been unlucky for 40 games. If they start chopping guys for bad 40 game stints, they'll get to a point where they are 1 injury away from having to call the corpse of Kendrys Morales to start at 1B. They like to maintain organizational depth. Sometimes that involves tough decisions.

[tmwiese55]

But then you're putting 850 OPS Thames on the bench. If you're insisting on Shaw being up then it's totally logical to put Hiura down as there just isn't enough ABs to go around combined with it limits you by a bullpen arm. Both guys need to be playing every day (well Shaw everyday vs righties). Aguilar not having an option is the real killer here.

[pacopete4]

Because they're not sitting Shaw and Moose. They will play 3B and 2B respectively.

Shaw can play first base, if they want to get him regular PAs. There is playing time for all three players especially given that Hiura is right-handed.

 

They've stated it before. Shaw is the future at 3B for this team. They are going to play him there. People really need to wrap their minds around this concept. Couple that with Moose doing just fine at 2B and Thames needing to play 1B right now, there just are not enough at-bats to warrant Huira to stay up.

[KeithStone53151]

Anytime you can start a guy with a 550 OPS, you have to do it.

 

Just wondering how you felt about Arcia last year, Santana last year, Anderson last year/ST this year, Davies last year, Knebel for parts of last year, etc.

 

Non-superstar players go through dry spells/turn things around. I can't even tell you if that's going to be Shaw/Aguilar. I understand that maybe they could stash Shaw in AAA instead, but otherwise, the Brewers believe Shaw is closer than what he was the last few years rather than the guy that has struggled/been unlucky for 40 games. If they start chopping guys for bad 40 game stints, they'll get to a point where they are 1 injury away from having to call the corpse of Kendrys Morales to start at 1B. They like to maintain organizational depth. Sometimes that involves tough decisions.

 

We're in an unusual situation where we have a lot of established guys that aren't hitting, and a young elite prospect came up and mashed for 3 weeks. It's not like the other option is throwing Perez in at 2b. If that was the case, I'd be more open to giving Shaw a chance. And my stance on him is more time in AAA to find his swing, or we cut bait with one of the 1b to keep hiura around and let shaw start more at 1b. The best decision is to let him see slightly worse pitching in AAA for a bit and try and figure things out there. The decision yesterday made the team worse in the short run and the long run in my opinion...so I'm really struggling to see how it's a win.

[tmwiese55]

It's a win if Shaw goes back to what he was. Obviously who knows if that happens but that's how it becomes a win and what they're shooting for here.

[SeaBass]

Anytime you can start a guy with a 550 OPS, you have to do it.

 

Just wondering how you felt about Arcia last year, Santana last year, Anderson last year/ST this year, Davies last year, Knebel for parts of last year, etc.

 

Non-superstar players go through dry spells/turn things around. I can't even tell you if that's going to be Shaw/Aguilar. I understand that maybe they could stash Shaw in AAA instead, but otherwise, the Brewers believe Shaw is closer than what he was the last few years rather than the guy that has struggled/been unlucky for 40 games. If they start chopping guys for bad 40 game stints, they'll get to a point where they are 1 injury away from having to call the corpse of Kendrys Morales to start at 1B. They like to maintain organizational depth. Sometimes that involves tough decisions.

 

We're in an unusual situation where we have a lot of established guys that aren't hitting, and a young elite prospect came up and mashed for 3 weeks. It's not like the other option is throwing Perez in at 2b. If that was the case, I'd be more open to giving Shaw a chance. And my stance on him is more time in AAA to find his swing, or we cut bait with one of the 1b to keep hiura around and let shaw start more at 1b. The best decision is to let him see slightly worse pitching in AAA for a bit and try and figure things out there. The decision yesterday made the team worse in the short run and the long run in my opinion...so I'm really struggling to see how it's a win.

He didn't just straight out mash for 3 straight weeks. He had a .700 OPS just 5 games ago.

 

Each of the guys they've chosen to keep on the roster for now has had better stretches of success than Hiura just did.

[pacopete4]

[sarcasm]Man, I hope Huira stinks up the joint so we can stop hearing about how Stearns messed up.[/sarcasm]

[xisxisxis]

They've stated it before. Shaw is the future at 3B for this team. They are going to play him there. People really need to wrap their minds around this concept. Couple that with Moose doing just fine at 2B and Thames needing to play 1B right now, there just are not enough at-bats to warrant Huira to stay up.

For how long? Shaw is 29 this year and the team has 2 more full years of control. He will be in his age 32 season if he signs somewhere as a Free Agent. He is the last player the Brewers should be building a long-term plan for at this point. He is past his prime and given his past history and splits there should be a very short leash on him for the future. He is a perfect candidate today for a platoon role, but unfortunately the Brewers have left handed bats coming out of every orifice so there isn't a candidate to platoon with him at this point. I am 100% sure the Brewers want to see if he can go on a hot streak and approach what he's done in the past, but he is another 60 games of poor production from being an afterthought not a part of the future.

[Surhoff5]

Anytime you can start a guy with a 550 OPS, you have to do it.

 

Just wondering how you felt about Arcia last year, Santana last year, Anderson last year/ST this year, Davies last year, Knebel for parts of last year, etc.

 

Non-superstar players go through dry spells/turn things around. I can't even tell you if that's going to be Shaw/Aguilar. I understand that maybe they could stash Shaw in AAA instead, but otherwise, the Brewers believe Shaw is closer than what he was the last few years rather than the guy that has struggled/been unlucky for 40 games. If they start chopping guys for bad 40 game stints, they'll get to a point where they are 1 injury away from having to call the corpse of Kendrys Morales to start at 1B. They like to maintain organizational depth. Sometimes that involves tough decisions.

 

We're in an unusual situation where we have a lot of established guys that aren't hitting, and a young elite prospect came up and mashed for 3 weeks. It's not like the other option is throwing Perez in at 2b. If that was the case, I'd be more open to giving Shaw a chance. And my stance on him is more time in AAA to find his swing, or we cut bait with one of the 1b to keep hiura around and let shaw start more at 1b. The best decision is to let him see slightly worse pitching in AAA for a bit and try and figure things out there. The decision yesterday made the team worse in the short run and the long run in my opinion...so I'm really struggling to see how it's a win.

 

So Hiura posted a 121 OPS+ in 17 games and "mashed", but yet Thames has posted a 122 OPS+ in over 50 games and you may want to cut bait with him? Literally six days ago, Hiura wasn't mashing and if it wasn't for his awful defense on the double-play last Saturday, he doesn't hit the tying HR off Vázquez.

 

I am not saying I agree with the decision, but if you take a step back, you can see where the Brewers are coming from.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

They've stated it before. Shaw is the future at 3B for this team. They are going to play him there. People really need to wrap their minds around this concept. Couple that with Moose doing just fine at 2B and Thames needing to play 1B right now, there just are not enough at-bats to warrant Huira to stay up.

For how long? Shaw is 29 this year and the team has 2 more full years of control. He will be in his age 32 season if he signs somewhere as a Free Agent. He is the last player the Brewers should be building a long-term plan for at this point. He is past his prime and given his past history and splits there should be a very short leash on him for the future. He is a perfect candidate today for a platoon role, but unfortunately the Brewers have left handed bats coming out of every orifice so there isn't a candidate to platoon with him at this point. I am 100% sure the Brewers want to see if he can go on a hot streak and approach what he's done in the past, but he is another 60 games of poor production from being an afterthought not a part of the future.

 

Since when is 29 years old past his prime? Sheesh!

 

You have two years of control on Shaw, which seemingly fits into the early portion of the team's contention window pretty perfectly, while giving them time to determine whether Lucas Erceg is the 3B of the future, of if they need to go out and find one. Given all the 3B this team has cycled through over the last 15 years, having a guy like Shaw around is a nice luxury to have.

[KeithStone53151]

We're in an unusual situation where we have a lot of established guys that aren't hitting, and a young elite prospect came up and mashed for 3 weeks. It's not like the other option is throwing Perez in at 2b. If that was the case, I'd be more open to giving Shaw a chance. And my stance on him is more time in AAA to find his swing, or we cut bait with one of the 1b to keep hiura around and let shaw start more at 1b. The best decision is to let him see slightly worse pitching in AAA for a bit and try and figure things out there. The decision yesterday made the team worse in the short run and the long run in my opinion...so I'm really struggling to see how it's a win.

He didn't just straight out mash for 3 straight weeks. He had a .700 OPS just 5 games ago.

 

Each of the guys they've chosen to keep on the roster for now has had better stretches of success than Hiura just did.

 

Aguilar had an excellent half of baseball last year, and aside from that was solid at best the balance of last year and the prior year. Thames had that great first month in a Brewer uniform and was overall decent at best beyond that. Guys that produce like Thames/Aguilar are not THAT difficult to find. So many examples of mashing 1b coming out of nowhere. Shaw has the most solid track record of the 3, but I honestly cannot handle watching him swing through meatballs down the middle over and over and over anymore. I'll turn the damn game off the first time I see him do it. This move was rushed, it could have waited another couple weeks and didn't have to happen now. To be clear, I'm not advocating for cutting Shaw. He's the last of the 3 we should cut ties with. But he's not ready to start at the MLB level.

[pacopete4]

I'll turn the damn game off the first time I see him do it.

 

Please do. Never seen such a damn baby in my life.

[KeithStone53151]

We're in an unusual situation where we have a lot of established guys that aren't hitting, and a young elite prospect came up and mashed for 3 weeks. It's not like the other option is throwing Perez in at 2b. If that was the case, I'd be more open to giving Shaw a chance. And my stance on him is more time in AAA to find his swing, or we cut bait with one of the 1b to keep hiura around and let shaw start more at 1b. The best decision is to let him see slightly worse pitching in AAA for a bit and try and figure things out there. The decision yesterday made the team worse in the short run and the long run in my opinion...so I'm really struggling to see how it's a win.

 

So Hiura posted a 121 OPS+ in 17 games and "mashed", but yet Thames has posted a 122 OPS+ in over 50 games and you may want to cut bait with him? Literally six days ago, Hiura wasn't mashing and if it wasn't for his awful defense on the double-play last Saturday, he doesn't hit the tying HR off Vázquez.

 

I am not saying I agree with the decision, but if you take a step back, you can see where the Brewers are coming from.

 

He started a bit slow and has improved since starting slow his first few games beyond a promotion. It's also really weird you are trying to minimize that fact that he hit a HR off Vazquez...that's incredibly impressive regardless of if it relates to an error. I bet Shaw couldn't hit a HR off Vazquez is he had 100 tries right now, heck he might not be able to even foul a pitch off against Vazquez in 100 AB right now. Hiura isn't as consistent defensively as he needs to be, but he's still better at 2b than either of Shaw/Moose.

[And That]

Shaw is the future at 3B for this team. They are going to play him there. People really need to wrap their minds around this concept. Couple that with Moose doing just fine at 2B and Thames needing to play 1B right now, there just are not enough at-bats to warrant Huira to stay up.

Those are all self-imposed restraints if the Brewers decide to follow them. The Brewers are choosing not to give Hiura MLB PAs - which I hope works out for them. I just don't think it's the best use of resources.

[pacopete4]

Shaw is the future at 3B for this team. They are going to play him there. People really need to wrap their minds around this concept. Couple that with Moose doing just fine at 2B and Thames needing to play 1B right now, there just are not enough at-bats to warrant Huira to stay up.

Those are all self-imposed restraints if the Brewers decide to follow them. The Brewers are choosing not to give Hiura MLB PAs - which I hope works out for them.

 

Hiura isn't going anywhere. He will get plenty of MLB at bats. He is nowhere near a finished product. Making sure you give your 3B now and for the foreseeable future, a chance to get out of his mess should and is a priority for the Brewers.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

We're in an unusual situation where we have a lot of established guys that aren't hitting, and a young elite prospect came up and mashed for 3 weeks. It's not like the other option is throwing Perez in at 2b. If that was the case, I'd be more open to giving Shaw a chance. And my stance on him is more time in AAA to find his swing, or we cut bait with one of the 1b to keep hiura around and let shaw start more at 1b. The best decision is to let him see slightly worse pitching in AAA for a bit and try and figure things out there. The decision yesterday made the team worse in the short run and the long run in my opinion...so I'm really struggling to see how it's a win.

He didn't just straight out mash for 3 straight weeks. He had a .700 OPS just 5 games ago.

 

Each of the guys they've chosen to keep on the roster for now has had better stretches of success than Hiura just did.

 

Aguilar had an excellent half of baseball last year, and aside from that was solid at best the balance of last year and the prior year. Thames had that great first month in a Brewer uniform and was overall decent at best beyond that. Guys that produce like Thames/Aguilar are not THAT difficult to find. So many examples of mashing 1b coming out of nowhere. Shaw has the most solid track record of the 3, but I honestly cannot handle watching him swing through meatballs down the middle over and over and over anymore. I'll turn the damn game off the first time I see him do it. This move was rushed, it could have waited another couple weeks and didn't have to happen now. To be clear, I'm not advocating for cutting Shaw. He's the last of the 3 we should cut ties with. But he's not ready to start at the MLB level.

 

That's fine. And I agree that if Shaw comes back and looks like the same exact player he did in his first 40 games of the season, the optics don't look good. But I also trust this team's decision making enough to believe that won't be a the case. It's pretty clear that you wanted the Brewers to option Shaw to AAA. Obviously that wasn't their plan. Teams make personnel decisions that we aren't going to like. If you're that invested where you feel the need to turn off the game and walk away, that may be the best option. Otherwise hop on board the Shaw train and hope for the best.

[jerichoholicninja]

Maybe this has been addressed already but it looks like Shaw had a little over a week left on his rehab assignment. Why did a decision have to be made now? It's not like there are pitchers involved and fresh arms were needed.