Keston Hiura called up, Shaw optioned

[bigredrobbo]

I'm conflicted here. Of course, like most of us here, I wanted Hiura to stay up, but he certainly had his flaws. Off the top of my head I remember at least 3 Ks with the bases loaded in those 17 days. Mediocre at best defense at 2nd. Certainly plays that Moose and Shaw at 2nd got slated for ("and that's why you have a real 2b", etc.). But, I put it down to small sample size, nerves, whatever.

 

It's been said more than once that the Brewers don't owe Shaw anything. Really? All he did was AS quality play for 2 full seasons, with more than 60HRs - at times last year putting the team on his back for a spell. I think if optics are what they are trying to preserve, kicking a previously productive player to the curb after a bad start is WAY worse than sending down a player that was brought up initially as an injury replacement. Goldschmidt was hitting below the Mendoza line after the same length of time in 2018, and I can't imagine the Dbacks binning him for a slow start. He finished with 33HRs and a .290 average. I think Shaw has earned the right to play himself well again. I don't think SA is where he needs to be.

 

Frankly, I'd have liked both to be up and productive, but I 100% understand why Stearns did it. He's succeeded WAY more with the moves he's made than failed. I'm gonna cut him some slack that many others won't. As often happens, I'm sure injuries and the like will make this all work out - it seems to happen more often than not in baseball...

 

What I won't do is wish that ANY Brewer fails to make Hiura's journey back easier. I don't get that attitude at all.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

For me the most significant reason I'm against this move is because I think it weakens the team. They lack RH bats and they just sent away one of their best. I hope Shaw comes up and knocks the cover off the ball and the team wins 60+% of their games until this inevitably sorts itself out. I have zero doubts about Hiura's ability once he returns and that could come very quickly. He'll be up with the next injury to a position player or at the trade deadline at the latest.

 

My one fear is Shaw continuing to be abysmal at the plate, the offense going into a funk, the team going into a losing spell, and the team missing the playoffs by a game or two. Under that scenario, they would have arguably pee'd away a season in a contending window for a very poor reason. Fans would have a right to hold it against them however they choose. It's a gamble I don't agree with taking.

[SRB]

There's no bigger Hiura fan than me, and I don't really see the issue with this move other than the empty symbolism of him getting called up and staying up.

 

Shaw has a ton of value for the franchise if he can rebound. It's worth giving him another chance now that he has had time to clear his head, and if the Mayor of Ding Dong City returns we will all be celebrating. But you can also bet he will be on a short leash and if he continues to struggle will be gone. Hiura could be back fairly soon even without an injury.

[SRB]

My one fear is Shaw continuing to be abysmal at the plate, the offense going into a funk, the team going into a losing spell, and the team missing the playoffs by a game or two. Under that scenario, they would have arguably pee'd away a season in a contending window for a very poor reason. Fans would have a right to hold it against them however they choose. It's a gamble I don't agree with taking.

 

This is fair, but any franchise also has to balance winning now with winning long-term. Both Shaw and Hiura are potential long-term assets for us.

 

I'm guessing few of us would trade Brice Turang for a 1.0 WAR upgrade somewhere else.

[Brew crew 92]

If you want to blame anyone for this move, blame CC.

 

He can’t mentally handle a 7 man bullpen. That’s the real reason Hiura is going down.

 

Imo, when Hiura was brought up he was told it would be temporary and he’d be back down when Shaw’s rehab over. Simple. No hard feelings.

 

They have 58 days to get Shaw right before the deadline and it being too late to get outside help. Getting Shaw right is priority #1. Or else it’s gonna get potentially expensive to add yet another bat.

 

Speaking of bats, they also need to decide what to do with Aguilar/Thames. TBD over the next 58 days.

 

Bottom line is, I’m convinced CC has to have 8 in the pen. I’ve wondered why they haven’t had 3 starter arms in the pen instead of 2, so they could get by with 7 in the pen a little easier,but from what I’ve seen,CC doesn’t want 3 arms throwing 2-3 innings saving work for the back end, he wants more pitchers for more matchups.

[bigredrobbo]

Since our bullpen has arguably been the number one strength of the team during the recent couple of seasons, I'm inclined to keep that the way CC likes it, then.

[xisxisxis]

If you want to blame anyone for this move, blame CC....

 

I think you'd have a better case blaming global warming...

[wildcat83]

If you want to blame anyone for this move, blame CC.

 

He can’t mentally handle a 7 man bullpen. That’s the real reason Hiura is going down.

 

Imo, when Hiura was brought up he was told it would be temporary and he’d be back down when Shaw’s rehab over. Simple. No hard feelings.

 

They have 58 days to get Shaw right before the deadline and it being too late to get outside help. Getting Shaw right is priority #1. Or else it’s gonna get potentially expensive to add yet another bat.

 

Speaking of bats, they also need to decide what to do with Aguilar/Thames. TBD over the next 58 days.

 

Bottom line is, I’m convinced CC has to have 8 in the pen. I’ve wondered why they haven’t had 3 starter arms in the pen instead of 2, so they could get by with 7 in the pen a little easier,but from what I’ve seen,CC doesn’t want 3 arms throwing 2-3 innings saving work for the back end, he wants more pitchers for more matchups.

 

 

So Shaw is pitching out of the pen?

 

I would guess CC had absolutely nothing to do with this...

[PeaveyFury]

If you want to blame anyone for this move, blame CC.

 

He can’t mentally handle a 7 man bullpen. That’s the real reason Hiura is going down.

 

That makes very little sense to me. If you don't think the reason for the move doesn't include the words 'Shaw' and 'Super 2' and instead includes the words 'CC' or 'bullpen', I'd imagine you're off-base.

[LouisEly]

My one fear is Shaw continuing to be abysmal at the plate, the offense going into a funk, the team going into a losing spell, and the team missing the playoffs by a game or two.

We've been conditioned to believe that will happen. But what we've been shown is that extended funks by proven hitters just don't happen. Look at Braun the last two years - how much hand-wringing was there about his starts? He's washed up, looks lost at the plate, just cut bait, etc., and then what do we get - a second half OPS of .879 last year, including a .963 OPS in Sept/Oct, and a 1.014 OPS this year in May.

 

We're still in small sample territory. It's only the first week of June. And if Moose is out for an extended period (the Brewers do like to take their time before putting a guy on the IL) and goes on the IL they'll need another LH bat and also can call Hiura back up immediately.

[FVBrewerFan]

If you want to blame anyone for this move, blame CC.

 

He can’t mentally handle a 7 man bullpen. That’s the real reason Hiura is going down.

 

That makes very little sense to me. If you don't think the reason for the move doesn't include the words 'Shaw' and 'Super 2' and instead includes the words 'CC' or 'bullpen', I'd imagine you're off-base.

 

Don't interrupt him, he's on a roll.

[Brew crew 92]

If you want to blame anyone for this move, blame CC.

 

He can’t mentally handle a 7 man bullpen. That’s the real reason Hiura is going down.

 

That makes very little sense to me. If you don't think the reason for the move doesn't include the words 'Shaw' and 'Super 2' and instead includes the words 'CC' or 'bullpen', I'd imagine you're off-base.

 

I don’t think so.

If we had a 12 man pitching staff, he’d still be up, would’nt he?

[PeaveyFury]

If you want to blame anyone for this move, blame CC.

 

He can’t mentally handle a 7 man bullpen. That’s the real reason Hiura is going down.

 

That makes very little sense to me. If you don't think the reason for the move doesn't include the words 'Shaw' and 'Super 2' and instead includes the words 'CC' or 'bullpen', I'd imagine you're off-base.

 

I don’t think so.

If we had a 12 man pitching staff, he’d still be up, would’nt he?

 

If you think that's an absolute, you're not giving the 'Super 2' part of my post the weight it probably has in this decision. I honestly think that's 85% of the reason for this move.

[harrydalton]

I don't care why they did it. I disagree. Hiura's advanced right handed bat and the position he plays (at least as well as Shaw or Moustakis) is more beneficial than Eric Thames.

[coolhandluke121]

This thread is giving me serious deja vu. Not a figure of speech, but literal deja vu. Have we seen the "blame CC" -----> "blame global warming" progression before?

[brewerfan82]

Yeah this is getting close to "letting Yelich take a day off" crazy.

 

2019 Brewers before Hiura (and with really bad Shaw): 24-19

2019 Brewers with Hiura: 10-7

 

This is a temporary move and there are 102 games left in the season. This is a good team with or without Hiura in the majors for a few weeks, things will be okay.

[HiAndTight]

Hiura has started to figure out MLB pitching, and he was hitting, period. Now, we send him down, losing all that time he gained by getting a look at MLB pitching.

 

Next time we bring him up, we have taken him out of his groove, and he has to start all over again.

 

I truly believe that every game counts, every single game, and we need to realize that.

 

I'll get over this move, but it is just completely asinine. Take one of, if not our hottest hitter out of our line-up and add a guy who is struggling big time, and has been all season long.

 

It is juts baffling to me.

 

 

I don't agree with the first two statements. I don't believe he loses anything from being sent down and I certainly don't think he has to "start all over" when he comes back up.

 

I also don't think he's totally figured out MLB pitching yet. He is not great at identifying breaking balls, especially sliders just yet.

 

But let him go down to AAA and if he's figured it out as much as you believe, he should dominate down there while striking out far less than he did up here and he'll be fine when they recall him.

[DHonks]

Question: how many options do you get and when does the clock on those start? So Shaw has "an option" left correct? Or is it two? Did Hiura use an option after this latest move? So how many does he have? I usually only start caring about options when a guy is a few years into his career.

 

You get 3 option years and they usually start after your 3rd year in the organization. Occasionally some players will get a 4th option year. Anytime a player is optioned to the minors they use one of their 3 options. Keep in mind once a player is optioned during a year they can bounce back and forth without using an additional options.

 

Hiura should have 2 options left, the same as Shaw, as he was on a rehab assignment and wasn't optioned.

 

It’s irrelevant as to what year in the system you start using options. It’s all related to years on the 40-man roster. You use no option years while a young player. Once added to the 40-man roster—whether in year 1 or 6–that’s when you start using option years. It’s why Devin Williams can return to starting—if he gets added to the 40-man in the off-season, we’ll control him for 3 more years in the minors.

[HiAndTight]

I don't care why they did it. I disagree. Hiura's advanced right handed bat and the position he plays (at least as well as Shaw or Moustakis) is more beneficial than Eric Thames.

 

 

Right, but we can send Hiura down for 2 weeks and then recall him. If we dumped Thames, that it. We waste money and just dump a guy with a .383 OBP and an 850 OPS...and he's a lefty.

[endaround]

I wouldn't have done this (I would have optioned down Burnes or Gamel letting Thames/Perez fill in the OF until something gives) but let's not pretend that the Brewers haven't manipulated service time before or that Hiura defense isn't an issue (UZR/150 of -30.4).

[clancyphile]

I don't care why they did it. I disagree. Hiura's advanced right handed bat and the position he plays (at least as well as Shaw or Moustakis) is more beneficial than Eric Thames.

 

 

Right, but we can send Hiura down for 2 weeks and then recall him. If we dumped Thames, that it. We waste money and just dump a guy with a .383 OBP and an 850 OPS...and he's a lefty.

 

Thames is having a very good year.

 

Moustakas is having a good year, and must be good to go soon.

 

Shaw... as bad as he was so far, he's shown in 2017/2018 he can be very good and very consistent. He does deserve a shot back.

 

Personally, I'd have sent down a pitcher, and kept Hiura. Hernan Perez is our 13th pitcher in that case.

[Pugger]

I wouldn't have done this (I would have optioned down Burnes or Gamel letting Thames/Perez fill in the OF until something gives) but let's not pretend that the Brewers haven't manipulated service time before or that Hiura defense isn't an issue (UZR/150 of -30.4).

 

Hiura is an exciting young player but his defense does need work and he can get fix that in AAA.

[pacopete4]

I just ventured into the twitter world to see reactions. Wow, what a meltdown by the Brewers faithful today. Pretty sad stuff.

[jjfanec]

I just ventured into the twitter world to see reactions. Wow, what a meltdown by the Brewers faithful today. Pretty sad stuff.

 

Twitter makes the IGTs look sane

[wallus]

Twitter is a cesspool.