Keston Hiura called up, Shaw optioned

[MrTPlush]

Honestly this came down to:

 

#1 Being determined to give Shaw another chance right away and not option him

 

#2 Keeping depth and flexibility

 

#3 Hiura staying as a part time game was obviously not an option

 

Those three things only provided one option and that was to send Hiura down. Thames and Aguilar both cannot be optioned, so neither could go.

 

 

Many are going to hate this move, but looking at the big picture I like it. It provides us not only the opportunity to see if Shaw can turn it around, but it also allows us to see if we can fix 1B. Because if Shaw hits he or Moustakas can slide over to 1B and we can dump/trade one of Aguilar/Thames. Which in the long run could be a major help vs. the small amount of time Hiura could find himself in AAA. If Shaw sucks, what do we lose? Two weeks of Hiura? The likelihood that has a major impact on wins is...unlikely. If Shaw can help solve 1B that could outweigh the loss of Hiura short term by a lot. Because if we can't fix 1B with the help of Shaw realistically you are waiting till late July to find a fix.

 

I see quite a bit of reward going this route and not that much risk.

[Bulldogboy]

This decision is a slap in the face to the player and the fan base in my opinion. There is no reason that anyone who is responsible for this decision can justify it beyond we just feel Travis has earned the right to be here. What? Earned the right? I am stunned that Stearns would say something so tone deaf to the reality of the situation. They told Nelson when he thought he was ready sorry you ain't ready yet. Now that's a guy who has earned the right. Shaw if hitting sure he is an asset but he hasn't earned Jack this year. The fascination this team has with big one dimensional sluggers is very frustrating and will continue to cost us over the course of the season. Offense overly reliant on home runs? Send down a hitter and call up a home run guy. Need a quality pinch hit ab? Send up Thames or Aguillar to strike out and not move the runners. The same team that has Jacob Barnes on it again is telling us we have no room for Hirua. It is a complete slap in the face. Period.

 

Keston's 27% K rate is very similar to Shaw's 32% K rate at the major league level this year.

True but we can only surmise he will get better with experience from what we have seen. Defense is tough call but I like him a bit better than Moose at second. Put Thames through waivers if he's claimed maybe the money could be shifted towards a free agent pitcher?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

that lineup doesn't include Shaw. It would certainly look a lot worse putting a 550 OPS hitter in there.

 

So we should forget Shaw's two full seasons of near All-Star level production, and just assume that 40-odd games of negative production is just who he is now?

[brewerfan82]

that lineup doesn't include Shaw. It would certainly look a lot worse putting a 550 OPS hitter in there.

Ha, alright:

 

CF Gamel/Cain - .728/.643 OPS

RF Yelich (L) - 1.018 OPS

LF Braun ® - .786 OPS

2B Moustakas (L) - 1.012 OPS

C Grandal (S) - 1.185 OPS

3B Shaw (L) - .548 OPS (with a chance to return to the .844 OPS he had the previous two years combined)

1B Thames (L) - .878 OPS

SS Arcia ® - .892 OPS

 

Still looks pretty okay to me.

[Bulldogboy]

Honestly this came down to:

 

#1 Being determined to give Shaw another chance right away and not option him

 

#2 Keeping depth and flexibility

 

#3 Hiura staying as a part time game was obviously not an option

 

Those three things only provided one option and that was to send Hiura down. Thames and Aguilar both cannot be optioned, so neither could go.

If Shaw or Moose can play first why do you need Aguillar and Thames? Not to mention Grandal. Hirua would make them better in the lineup every day than either Thames or Aguillar impact off the bench imo.

 

Many are going to hate this move, but looking at the big picture I like it. It provides us not only the opportunity to see if Shaw can turn it around, but it also allows us to see if we can fix 1B. Because if Shaw hits he or Moustakas can slide over to 1B and we can dump/trade one of Aguilar/Thames. Which in the long run could be a major help vs. the small amount of time Hiura could find himself in AAA. If Shaw sucks, what do we lose? Two weeks of Hiura? The likelihood that has a major impact on wins is...unlikely. If Shaw can help solve 1B that could outweigh the loss of Hiura short term by a lot. Because if we can't fix 1B with the help of Shaw realistically you are waiting till late July to find a fix.

 

I see quite a bit of reward going this route and not that much risk.

[SeaBass]

that lineup doesn't include Shaw. It would certainly look a lot worse putting a 550 OPS hitter in there.

Travis Shaw is not the only reason Keston Hiura was sent back to AAA. If they really wanted to make room for both guys they could have.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I think this move sucks, but in the long run it may prove to be ok...

 

Brewers have the soft underbelly of their schedule from here to the AS break, so they should be able to get on a roll. Hiura in AAA these next few weeks should guarantee he crosses the super 2 threshold. This also gives plenty of at bats to shaw, Aguilar, and Thames to sort out who should be the odd man out when hiura is recalled after the AS break.

 

If Hiura opens s the 2nd half of the season still in AAA and one of the aforementioned 3 is still not performing well, pitchforks should come out...

[pacopete4]

 

I think you answered it yourself. Until he can play 2B reasonably well it’d be hard to have him get reps elsewhere.

 

I think you are wildly overexagerating Hiura's defense. He's much better defensively at 2b than you're giving him credit. You're talking like he's Braun at 3b.

 

Had 4 errors in 17 games or an error every 4.25 games.

 

Braun made an error every 4.3 games at 3B.

 

Now, I don’t think he’s Braun bad but I also don’t think he’s very good there. Needs work. He will get that playing regularly in AAA.

[KeithStone53151]

I'm going to remember this thread if/when Shaw is terrible and we miss the playoffs by 1 or 2 games. He had more time he could have spent in AAA including his option. This move didn't need to happen yet.

[tmwiese55]

I thought Hiura looked fine at 2B. He did have some errors at bad times that directly cost runs, but really they seemed kind of fluky to me. Two on throws to 2B, one which hit the runner. 2 errors on one play due to the Ps glove misdirecting a ball, which led to him rushing a bad throw to 1st that he should've ate.

 

The only spot I could see some value in him adding for this year would be LF. SS is impossible and the corner IF spots are covered. Gamel obviously is good 4th OF but if an injury were to occur (Braun is overdo for a 10 day stint) it would be nice be able to have Hiura get some ABs out there as well rather than Perez. Due to his speed you'd think with a bit of practice he'd be better in LF than Thames.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The way that (most) have responded to this news is why I'm such an avid fan of this forum. Quite a bit of disappointment, but also mostly measured optimism and understanding. This is a group of fans who see the big picture.

 

Counter this with Brewers Twitter, which is an absolute train wreck right now.

[KeithStone53151]

 

I think you answered it yourself. Until he can play 2B reasonably well it’d be hard to have him get reps elsewhere.

 

I think you are wildly overexagerating Hiura's defense. He's much better defensively at 2b than you're giving him credit. You're talking like he's Braun at 3b.

 

Had 4 errors in 17 games or an error every 4.25 games.

 

Braun made an error every 4.3 games at 3B.

 

Now, I don’t think he’s Braun bad but I also don’t think he’s very good there. Needs work. He will get that playing regularly in AAA.

 

Because errors are all that matters in fielding...

[JohnBriggs12]

I would have bitten the bullet and DFA'd the guy hitting .190/.301/.307. Sure he had an All Star 2018, but he's soon to be 29, and frankly there's veteran 1B/DH types with similar backgrounds of inconsistency on the market every year.

[Lathund]

I'm a bit torn on this. I certainly put more stock into Shaw's track record over multiple seasons than I do over 40-odd games; the 2017-2018 Shaw should absolutely be on this team. At the same time, I'm worried in that Shaw's struggles were almost entirely down to swinging and missing on pitches in the zone. Plate discipline, exit velocity, swing rate etc. are basically unchanged. And I'm not sure how easily fixable that flaw is. I can only assume that the Brewers have reason to believe it's likely to improve, but the rehab stint didn't inspire confidence. And Travis himself said the injury occured just before the DL stint, so doesn't explain the struggles before then. I would have given Shaw more time in AAA to get going, and then reevaluate the whole 1B/2B/3B situation. But then again when I've disagreed with DS moves, it's usually turned out that they were right to begin with. So I'll leave the pitchfork alone for now.

 

One note on the timing though. Normally moves like these are made the day of the game; they didn't have to make it official today. One could interpret that two wildly different ways. Either they plan to (Or want to have the ability to) call up Hiura as soon as possible if needed. Or he's being sent down as early as possible as part of a move to try to get past the Super 2 cutoff.

[MrTPlush]

Because errors are all that matters in fielding...

 

Hey if you want to use something that isn't errors we could point to his horrendous weak arm or the terrible range it creates. He also had one wicked throw the other day when he had no chance at 1B that probably lands 10 rows deep into the stands more often than not.

 

He was not pretty in his short stint...and honestly, never will be good. I would guess never even average. That is okay though because I don't think he needs to be, but that doesn't change the fact his defense is not good.

[Bulldogboy]

Why not put Thames on waivers. If someone bites which I'm sure they would you save around 3 million this season. Use the money to try and fish a free agent pitcher. Shaw at first base with Aguillar against lefties is fine with me.

[BillScottCanRake]

Is there anything that quantifies the salary difference between non-Super 2s and Super-2s in a players 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th seasons?

[MrTPlush]

I'm going to remember this thread if/when Shaw is terrible and we miss the playoffs by 1 or 2 games. He had more time he could have spent in AAA including his option. This move didn't need to happen yet.

 

Even if this moves is a total disaster (not having Hiura for a few weeks) it probably won't even rank Top 10 worst decisions Stearns made in 2019.

[homer]

Why not put Thames on waivers. If someone bites which I'm sure they would you save around 3 million this season. Use the money to try and fish a free agent pitcher. Shaw at first base with Aguillar against lefties is fine with me.

 

Because he has an 850 OPS.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I would have bitten the bullet and DFA'd the guy hitting .190/.301/.307. Sure he had an All Star 2018, but he's soon to be 29, and frankly there's veteran 1B/DH types with similar backgrounds of inconsistency on the market every year.

 

That may very well happen. Just like the next 10 days are huge for Travis Shaw, they likewise are huge for Jesus Aguilar. The Brewers know now that they have a player that they can call up who will provide instant offense. They no longer need to wait patiently while guys like Jesus and Travis scuffle along looking for their swing.

[tmwiese55]

Why not put Thames on waivers. If someone bites which I'm sure they would you save around 3 million this season. Use the money to try and fish a free agent pitcher. Shaw at first base with Aguillar against lefties is fine with me.

 

Because of the 3 candidates to play 1B he's the only one doing reasonably well.

 

Someone else said the ballsy move would be to waive Jesus. I'm never one on the overreaction/small sample side but to me he still looks completely lost. Still don't think I can give up yet but I'm really starting to think he might never be a positive contributor again. Hope I'm wrong.

[KeithStone53151]

Because errors are all that matters in fielding...

 

Hey if you want to use something that isn't errors we could point to his horrendous weak arm or the terrible range it creates. He also had one wicked throw the other day when he had no chance at 1B that probably lands 10 rows deep into the stands more often than not.

 

He was not pretty in his short stint...and honestly, never will be good. I would guess never even average. That is okay though because I don't think he needs to be, but that doesn't change the fact his defense is not good.

 

I definitely didn't see every inning, but I saw a decent amount of Hiura and only saw 1 error(throw off a players back...which is fluky) and saw great hands/footwork at 2b. And his arm didn't look all that weak to me, especially on a few of the double plays he turned...most notably in that extra innings game in Pittsburgh. He probably could use a bit more consistency to avoid the errors, but I think he's fine/solid at 2b. Makes the routine plays for the most part, and of course mashes the baseball.

[Bulldogboy]

Why not put Thames on waivers. If someone bites which I'm sure they would you save around 3 million this season. Use the money to try and fish a free agent pitcher. Shaw at first base with Aguillar against lefties is fine with me.

 

Because he has an 850 OPS.

Him and Shaw cancel each other out. The question is if Shaw has to play would you rather have Hirua or the Thames /Aguillar platoon. Sign me up for Hirua every day.

[tmwiese55]

Why not put Thames on waivers. If someone bites which I'm sure they would you save around 3 million this season. Use the money to try and fish a free agent pitcher. Shaw at first base with Aguillar against lefties is fine with me.

 

Because he has an 850 OPS.

Him and Shaw cancel each other out. The question is if Shaw has to play would you rather have Hirua or the Thames /Aguillar platoon. Sign me up for Hirua every day.

 

Sure but if in 2 weeks Shaw is still a mess then you have no one to play 1B. In the scenario you just said Aguilar should be the one out. Essentially though this move was to kick the can down the road 2 more weeks and re-assess.

[Bulldogboy]

I would have bitten the bullet and DFA'd the guy hitting .190/.301/.307. Sure he had an All Star 2018, but he's soon to be 29, and frankly there's veteran 1B/DH types with similar backgrounds of inconsistency on the market every year.

 

That may very well happen. Just like the next 10 days are huge for Travis Shaw, they likewise are huge for Jesus Aguilar. The Brewers know now that they have a player that they can call up who will provide instant offense. They no longer need to wait patiently while guys like Jesus and Travis scuffle along looking for their swing.

It is strange to me that Stearns who has had so much luck finding guys like Aguilar and Choi on other teams scrap heaps is so afraid of losing these guys that he would send down a difference maker like Hirua. If you found a Aguillar or Thames once you can do it again. The Luke Voit of the world are out there waiting to be found if you need them.