Keston Hiura called up, Shaw optioned

[tmwiese55]

Aren't we still kind of worried about what they're going to do here with Shaw already said to be coming back? It seems Moose does not need a IL sting so I'm still worried Huira is going back down. This is also relevant for fantasy this week

 

No, not worried, because if he does go down, it likely won't be for long. He's made a very nice first impression in his first taste of the Show.

 

Well yea I'm not worried about him overall. I meant just worried about him going down, just that it's going to happen. As in, he's doing well so I'd prefer him just to stay up.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Aren't we still kind of worried about what they're going to do here with Shaw already said to be coming back? It seems Moose does not need a IL sting so I'm still worried Huira is going back down. This is also relevant for fantasy this week

 

No, not worried, because if he does go down, it likely won't be for long. He's made a very nice first impression in his first taste of the Show.

 

Disagree. It would be completely inappropriate and it could cost them games. If Shaw comes up in Hiura's place and still isn't hitting, then the team is making a playoff contender worse. Given last season's down to the wire, tie-breaker with the Cubs, the team shouldn't be downgrading unnecessarily for any stretch.

 

I just think the best version of this team includes Travis Shaw hitting like Travis Shaw. I'm excited to see if he's worked out of his funk. I can't imagine the leash is going to be very long at all if he proves that he hasn't. But Shaw is a big bat that would be huge for this team if he turns it around.

 

But the Brewers aren't stupid. If the decision is to send Hiura down, I trust them. They know every one of these games is important.

[long ball]

I think the Brewers have an opportunity to go with a 12 man pitching staff until Friday 6/14. That would allow them to kick the Hiura decision can down the road.

 

-They have 3 off days which allows for extra rest for the bullpen. They could even get creative with skipping starts etc given the off days freeing up an extra spot for a position player.

-They will need a DH next week in Houston

-Moose might still get a couple days off after the HBP

-They could play Thames in the OF (tiny LF in Houston might not be a terrible option)

 

There are ways to get everyone their plate appearances and anything can happen in a week. If they're definitely activating Shaw from the IL for tomorrow's game I don't think they need to option Hiura for at least another 1.5 weeks (if at all)

[True Blue Brew Crew]

I think the Brewers have an opportunity to go with a 12 man pitching staff until Friday 6/14. That would allow them to kick the Hiura decision can down the road.

 

-They have 3 off days which allows for extra rest for the bullpen. They could even get creative with skipping starts etc given the off days freeing up an extra spot for a position player.

-They will need a DH next week in Houston

-Moose might still get a couple days off after the HBP

-They could play Thames in the OF (tiny LF in Houston might not be a terrible option)

 

There are ways to get everyone their plate appearances and anything can happen in a week. If they're definitely activating Shaw from the IL for tomorrow's game I don't think they need to option Hiura for at least another 1.5 weeks (if at all)

 

+1 This would seem a lot more likely to happen IMO. Especially the "if at all" part.

[homer]

I'm pretty confident they'll keep him through next week's interleague games. Beyond that it will take some roster shuffling but I doubt they send his bat back down.

[tmwiese55]

Well I guess I'd hope for Shaw to get his ABs at 1B if that's the case and let Hiura keep playing, assuming Moose is playing. Though if Shaw is up he might as well get regular ABs to give him the best chance at getting going. Really seems to me the 1B logjam is the roster issue to me. BAsically saying you'd want Huira playing everyday and Shaw playing vs all righties. So really not a lot of ABs left for Thames/Jesus until you get the DH, and even then Gamel is better.

 

Slight nitpick, yes Hous has small LF but still wouldn't need to force Thames out there since you're allowed a DH in Houston. Barring some injury needs of course.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

When Hiura was brought up, Counsell was quoted saying his bat is what got him here. That bat certainly hasn't done anything to get him demoted.

 

Honestly, if they were just looking for an easy injury replacement for Shaw, Saladino, Spangenberg or even Dubon made more sense, as all were already on the 40-man roster at the time. The fact that they had to add Hiura to the roster, while starting his service clock in the process, was the team admitting that now was the time.

 

I could be completely wrong on this, but I would doubt that Hiura goes down this week. I think they'll go with a 12-man staff for a little while, and Shaw will see playing time at 3B and 1B, and perhaps even LF while they try to get him right.

[long ball]

Well I guess I'd hope for Shaw to get his ABs at 1B if that's the case and let Hiura keep playing, assuming Moose is playing. Though if Shaw is up he might as well get regular ABs to give him the best chance at getting going. Really seems to me the 1B logjam is the roster issue to me. BAsically saying you'd want Huira playing everyday and Shaw playing vs all righties. So really not a lot of ABs left for Thames/Jesus until you get the DH, and even then Gamel is better.

 

Slight nitpick, yes Hous has small LF but still wouldn't need to force Thames out there since you're allowed a DH in Houston. Barring some injury needs of course.

 

Fair point on Thames playing OF in Houston. Probably not needed since they have the DH available and if they want to fit his bat in the line up there are better ways to do it.

 

Just eye balling it, the Brewers probably get Peacock and Verlander in that series, both tough righties. So getting Shaw, Moustakas, Thames, and even Gamel in there might be a priority. You can get all of those guys in the line up and still play Hiura at 2b.

[tdcarney22]

When Hiura was brought up, Counsell was quoted saying his bat is what got him here. That bat certainly hasn't done anything to get him demoted.

 

Honestly, if they were just looking for an easy injury replacement for Shaw, Saladino, Spangenberg or even Dubon made more sense, as all were already on the 40-man roster at the time. The fact that they had to add Hiura to the roster, while starting his service clock in the process, was the team admitting that now was the time.

 

I could be completely wrong on this, but I would doubt that Hiura goes down this week. I think they'll go with a 12-man staff for a little while, and Shaw will see playing time at 3B and 1B, and perhaps even LF while they try to get him right.

 

 

I hope 99.999999% of this is correct. I want Huira here....more than i want that though, is that i want ABSOLUTELY ZERO of Travis Shaw in LF. We have 3 absolutely rock solid defenders (Cain/Yelich/Gamel) and also have Braun. Their is just absolutely no need for that, and you can't take those bats out of the lineup for Shaw at any cost. IMO of course!

[KeithStone53151]

It seems like it would be crazy to send Hiura down. Hiura is such an important cog in our lineup as a RH hitter that is hitting right now. Braun has been solid, but Cain/Aguilar have been bad lately. Hiura is so important for balance in 5-7 spots in the lineup. I don't think the Cain/Yelich/Braun/Moose/Grandal top 5 is going to change much anytime soon. Most often, it will be Thames/Shaw batting 7th...so having a RH hitter that's actually a threat hitting 6th is huge to keep teams from running a LH reliever out from Moose through Thames/Shaw without potential punishment. I know Grandal has been hitting LHP this year, but that's probably small sample as he's much better as a LH hitter.

 

Aside from lineup/balance reasons, the kid deserves to stay. He's been hitting so well, especially after a somewhat rough first couple weeks. He's also been surprisingly solid defensively. He helped turn a couple critical double plays in that extra innings game against Pitt that were absolutely not easy plays. I don't think Shaw or Moose have the hands/footwork to make those turns.

 

The Brewers can try to play roster games to keep all their talent, but eventually 1 of Shaw/Aguilar/Thames is gonna have to go. Especially since if I had my way about things, we'd be trading for Justin Smoak over the next 2 months and all those guys would have their playing time disappear.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

When Hiura was brought up, Counsell was quoted saying his bat is what got him here. That bat certainly hasn't done anything to get him demoted.

 

Honestly, if they were just looking for an easy injury replacement for Shaw, Saladino, Spangenberg or even Dubon made more sense, as all were already on the 40-man roster at the time. The fact that they had to add Hiura to the roster, while starting his service clock in the process, was the team admitting that now was the time.

 

I could be completely wrong on this, but I would doubt that Hiura goes down this week. I think they'll go with a 12-man staff for a little while, and Shaw will see playing time at 3B and 1B, and perhaps even LF while they try to get him right.

 

 

I hope 99.999999% of this is correct. I want Huira here....more than i want that though, is that i want ABSOLUTELY ZERO of Travis Shaw in LF. We have 3 absolutely rock solid defenders (Cain/Yelich/Gamel) and also have Braun. Their is just absolutely no need for that, and you can't take those bats out of the lineup for Shaw at any cost. IMO of course!

 

I totally get it. I think it's important that they find ABs for Shaw, though. He isn't going to come out of his funk by getting an occasional pinch hitting appearance. He's got to play as close to every day as he can. 1B would make more sense if Thames wasn't hitting so well.

[tmwiese55]

Frankly unless Moose really does need to miss some days I don't see the rush to bring Shaw back. Sure you owe him another crack since he's been so good here, but he really didn't do well in AAA so far so no need to rush. I don't think it would be insulting at all to tell him to take another week down there and he'll be back for Houston when we need a DH. Buys another week to see what else happens with the team/roster/injuries.

[SeaBass]

Frankly unless Moose really does need to miss some days I don't see the rush to bring Shaw back. Sure you owe him another crack since he's been so good here, but he really didn't do well in AAA so far so no need to rush. I don't think it would be insulting at all to tell him to take another week down there and he'll be back for Houston when we need a DH. Buys another week to see what else happens with the team/roster/injuries.

I think the easy call is sending Barnes or Williams back down. This is as good a time as any to bring Shaw back, Miami is terrible and Pittsburgh is in the bottom 4 in runs scored and worst in the NL in runs allowed. These are the teams we want Shaw to get some at bats against if he's going to get himself going again.

[pacopete4]

I'm good with it if they send Hiura down. He won't be there long if they do. Gotta get Shaw back at it. He's very important to this team going forward. If they can finagle the roster to keep them all up and use fewer pitchers, great. Otherwise, it'll work itself out eventually. I love log jams. Great problems to have. Never in my life have I seen a roster built where we have jams just about everywhere. Sometimes I think we are way more dramatic about these situations than the Brewers are.

[KeithStone53151]

I'm good with it if they send Hiura down. He won't be there long if they do. Gotta get Shaw back at it. He's very important to this team going forward. If they can finagle the roster to keep them all up and use fewer pitchers, great. Otherwise, it'll work itself out eventually. I love log jams. Great problems to have. Never in my life have I seen a roster built where we have jams just about everywhere. Sometimes I think we are way more dramatic about these situations than the Brewers are.

 

Except I don't really view it as jams. None of our 1b are hitting, the only jam is which of the 3 struggling hitters should play 1b...and then I guess Gamel is arguably jammed for playing time in the OF to some degree. You are proposing sending a guy down that's hitting so a guy that hasn't hit all year can play. Also it's completely indisputable that Hiura is more important to the team going forward than Shaw.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Also it's completely indisputable that Hiura is more important to the team going forward than Shaw.

 

It is? That would seem to me to be the definition of a subjective statement.

 

I sure am glad that the Brewers' front office doesn't give up on players as easily and as quickly as we do around here.

[KeithStone53151]

Also it's completely indisputable that Hiura is more important to the team going forward than Shaw.

 

It is? That would seem to me to be the definition of a subjective statement.

 

I sure am glad that the Brewers' front office doesn't give up on players as easily and as quickly as we do around here.

 

I suppose maybe a little. Hiura is likely to be an impact talent for 6 cost controlled years. Shaw has 2+ years of team control at most...and if he doesn't start hitting his tenure might be done at the end of the year.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

I suppose maybe a little. Hiura is likely to be an impact talent for 6 cost controlled years. Shaw has 2+ years of team control at most...and if he doesn't start hitting his tenure might be done at the end of the year.

 

I don't object at all to your characterization of Hiura as more important than Shaw to the team going forward. Both control and ceiling are why. I'd love to hear the argument from someone who thinks the Brewers would keep Shaw if held at gunpoint and forced to pick between them. Shaw plays a more valuable defensive position but the disparity between the two in terms of control, ceiling, and age is just too great.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I suppose maybe a little. Hiura is likely to be an impact talent for 6 cost controlled years. Shaw has 2+ years of team control at most...and if he doesn't start hitting his tenure might be done at the end of the year.

 

I don't object at all to your characterization of Hiura as more important than Shaw to the team going forward. Both control and ceiling are why. I'd love to hear the argument from someone who thinks the Brewers would keep Shaw if held at gunpoint and forced to pick between them. Shaw plays a more valuable defensive position but the disparity between the two in terms of control, ceiling, and age is just too great.

 

It's a useless argument because it's based solely on hypotheticals. They shouldn't and won't have to choose who to keep, because Shaw is controlled through 2021, and Hiura though at least 2024.

 

I mean, I could say Shaw is more important because he's going to win the 2020 World Series MVP. But that's just dumb. There are just too many variables at play.

 

What is indisputable is that getting Travis Shaw producing to his 2017-18 level makes this team better.

[pacopete4]

What is indisputable is that getting Travis Shaw producing to his 2017-18 level makes this team better.

 

Yep. This was my point. This team needs Shaw to get going. Keith talked about three guys struggling. Who are these three guys? Aguilar is the only one who is struggling and even he has done much better lately compared to his start. Just glad the Brewers FO doesn't make decisions so hastily.

[tmwiese55]

Yea I think this was semantics. OP meant for this season.

 

For three guys struggling, he meant Jesus, Shaw, Thames. I agree Thames has basically been doing just fine, and actually kind of hot the last week or so. So it's two guys now. It's just kind of too bad Thames/Shaw are both lefties and do poorly vs lefties so a combo doesn't work.

[KeithStone53151]

What is indisputable is that getting Travis Shaw producing to his 2017-18 level makes this team better.

 

Yep. This was my point. This team needs Shaw to get going. Keith talked about three guys struggling. Who are these three guys? Aguilar is the only one who is struggling and even he has done much better lately compared to his start. Just glad the Brewers FO doesn't make decisions so hastily.

 

The three struggling guys are obviously Shaw/Aguilar/Thames. OPS of 335/708/686 OPS in the month of May. I don't care if 708 OPS is better than his start, it's still not good enough for 1b on a contender. Look what Rizzo/Freeman/Muncy/Hoskins are doing. We need a 1b doing something closer to that.

 

If Hiura is going to rake at 2b, we don't necessarily NEED Shaw to get going. I don't think the very best version of Shaw is as good as Hiura, and right now he's at his very worst. Why send Hiura down to hope that Shaw can be maybe 90% as productive as Hiura has been? Also, a full season at this level for Hiura likely means even more improvement next year. He's a budding star, where as Shaw at his best is maybe the 4th or 5th best 3b in the NL.

[pacopete4]

What is indisputable is that getting Travis Shaw producing to his 2017-18 level makes this team better.

 

Yep. This was my point. This team needs Shaw to get going. Keith talked about three guys struggling. Who are these three guys? Aguilar is the only one who is struggling and even he has done much better lately compared to his start. Just glad the Brewers FO doesn't make decisions so hastily.

 

The three struggling guys are obviously Shaw/Aguilar/Thames. OPS of 335/708/686 OPS in the month of May. I don't care if 708 OPS is better than his start, it's still not good enough for 1b on a contender. Look what Rizzo/Freeman/Muncy/Hoskins are doing. We need a 1b doing something closer to that.

 

If Hiura is going to rake at 2b, we don't necessarily NEED Shaw to get going. I don't think the very best version of Shaw is as good as Hiura, and right now he's at his very worst. Why send Hiura down to hope that Shaw can be maybe 90% as productive as Hiura has been? Also, a full season at this level for Hiura likely means even more improvement next year. He's a budding star, where as Shaw at his best is maybe the 4th or 5th best 3b in the NL.

Your roster construction would rely on hoping a 22-year old carries you the rest of the year. Mine would be to get as many of our players going as possible. I'll take my chances that the latter would be in the best interest for the Brewers.

 

Also, Thames has an OPS of .850. To say that he is struggling is just a downright lie.

[KeithStone53151]

The three struggling guys are obviously Shaw/Aguilar/Thames. OPS of 335/708/686 OPS in the month of May. I don't care if 708 OPS is better than his start, it's still not good enough for 1b on a contender. Look what Rizzo/Freeman/Muncy/Hoskins are doing. We need a 1b doing something closer to that.

 

If Hiura is going to rake at 2b, we don't necessarily NEED Shaw to get going. I don't think the very best version of Shaw is as good as Hiura, and right now he's at his very worst. Why send Hiura down to hope that Shaw can be maybe 90% as productive as Hiura has been? Also, a full season at this level for Hiura likely means even more improvement next year. He's a budding star, where as Shaw at his best is maybe the 4th or 5th best 3b in the NL.

Your roster construction would rely on hoping a 22-year old carries you the rest of the year. Mine would be to get as many of our players going as possible. I'll take my chances that the latter would be in the best interest for the Brewers.

 

Also, Thames has an OPS of .850. To say that he is struggling is just a downright lie.

 

I quoted the number I used to say he's struggling. He might have hit well in April in very limited AB, but he's struggled in May. He's sporting a 34% k rate and 369 BABIP. So even his full season OPS is very lucky.

 

If you want to get all our players going, why not keep shaw at AAA? The MLB club is not where you try and get guys going, results come first and he's terrible right now. It would do him good to see worse pitching as it might help him get going. Rather than go up there and flail miserably against MLB pitching and hurt the mlb club. Did you even watch the guy play before going on the DL? I was watching this guy swing through meatball fastballs down the middle regularly. I bet he was whiffing like crazy in pre-game BP...he was THAT BAD.

 

The Brewers needed game 163 to win the division last year. Every game matters. We'll win more now if Hiura is playing 2b regularly and Shaw is in AAA getting consistent atbats. When Shaw learns how to not swing through 92 mph fastballs down the middle, maybe then we consider bringing him back.

[MrTPlush]

You can nitpick Thames all you want, but he has not struggled. He has a .850 OPS on the year and .900 in the last 28 days (which covers most of May). He had a slump like most of players have in baseball. Maybe he is streaky...who cares. Overall he has done pretty darn good.