Eastern Conference Finals: Milwaukee Bucks vs Toronto Raptors

[adambr2]

Not a fan of Giannis just walking out of his press conference in response to a very legitimate question about experience being a big factor.

 

I'm sure you're as devastated as anyone, probably more, but this happened, sit up there and face the music and own it and be better for it.

[OnTheBlack]

We had a bunch of guys who played 'ok'. And that's the problem. Vanvleet and Lowry shot out of their minds as they have much of this series and we just didn't have anyone who matched it.

 

Giannis was ok. Middleton was ok. Brogdon was ok. Lopez was ok.

 

You're not getting to the Finals on the backs of a bunch of guys who were just ok.

 

 

It's hard to overstate how dramatic his turnaround has been. In the 10 games from the start of the conference semifinals through Game 3 against the Bucks, VanVleet shot 7-of-44 from the field and 3-of-25 from 3. Over the past two games, VanVleet is now 12-of-19 from the field -- including an absurd 10-of-12 from deep.

 

VanVleet followed that up with 4 of 5 from 3 tonight. And those WERE contested shots or they were from well behind the 3 point line for anyone who wants to keep parroting that the problem was the Bucks giving up open 3's.

 

For that matter, almost all of Kawhi's 3's were contested as well. The only guy who regularly got open looks was Gasol and you can't cover everyone when you've got to worry about a superstar.

[OnTheBlack]

Not a fan of Giannis just walking out of his press conference in response to a very legitimate question about experience being a big factor.

 

I'm sure you're as devastated as anyone, probably more, but this happened, sit up there and face the music and own it and be better for it.

 

 

That's ideal, but I couldn't sit up there for a press conference after a big loss like that. A heart breaking loss that we choked away.

 

 

Edit-I'm not saying you're wrong, I just honestly understand it, and it doesn't bother me as much as you because that's part of what gives Giannis that "edge."

[OnTheBlack]

I loved the things Budd did this year, but not managing to stop the bleeding after the Game 3 loss and dropping 4 straight with very few adjustments is not going to help his reputation as a regular season coach.

 

 

Respectfully, I disagree. He made adjustments. He benched Mirotic, he changed up the D, he had Giannis attacking from the top of the key far less, he had a much quicker hook with Bledsoe.

 

 

The Raptors have been in this position for the last 4-5 years and it took flipping their future in Derozan for a rental in Kawhi to get it done.

 

They'll be the Grizzlies next year and an also-ran.

 

Kawhi will sign the max for an LA team and miss half the season with a bunch of maladies that the trainers cannot identify.

[adambr2]

Not a fan of Giannis just walking out of his press conference in response to a very legitimate question about experience being a big factor.

 

I'm sure you're as devastated as anyone, probably more, but this happened, sit up there and face the music and own it and be better for it.

 

 

That's ideal, but I couldn't sit up there for a press conference after a big loss like that. A heart breaking loss that we choked away.

 

 

Edit-I'm not saying you're wrong, I just honestly understand it, and it doesn't bother me as much as you because that's part of what gives Giannis that "edge."

 

I get it. I just would have preferred to see him sit up there and fight through it and own this experience completely.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Toronto took Middleton out of this series basically. It was a good play. They tag teamed Giannis and he still had production, but he worked hard for everything and never really killed them. With Middleton out of the picture Bledsoe had to be big and he was mostly terrible. They basically let the rest of the guys do whatever.

 

It only backfired.one night Lopez pulled a rabbit out of his hat. But for the most part it was take the best shooter out of the game and make either Giannis go superhuman or force a role player to have a big night. It never happened besides the one time Lopez had one. I don't think they thought we could do it four times. They were right

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Not a fan of Giannis just walking out of his press conference in response to a very legitimate question about experience being a big factor.

 

I'm sure you're as devastated as anyone, probably more, but this happened, sit up there and face the music and own it and be better for it.

 

 

That's ideal, but I couldn't sit up there for a press conference after a big loss like that. A heart breaking loss that we choked away.

 

 

Edit-I'm not saying you're wrong, I just honestly understand it, and it doesn't bother me as much as you because that's part of what gives Giannis that "edge."

 

I get it. I just would have preferred to see him sit up there and fight through it and own this experience completely.

 

Not sure if you guys know this yet...but the reporter leaked a story immediately after the game that Giannis is likely to leave MKE if there is no Finals run in 2020. That's who asked the question. He got pissed and left. Rightfully.

[adambr2]

Makes sense why he would snub her, then.

[OnTheBlack]

Toronto took Middleton out of this series basically. It was a good play. They tag teamed Giannis and he still had production, but he worked hard for everything and never really killed them. With Middleton out of the picture Bledsoe had to be big and he was mostly terrible. They basically let the rest of the guys do whatever.

 

It only backfired.one night Lopez pulled a rabbit out of his hat. But for the most part it was take the best shooter out of the game and make either Giannis go superhuman or force a role player to have a big night. It never happened besides the one time Lopez had one. I don't think they thought we could do it four times. They were right

 

 

Agreed. But this is also why I think it's SO important to re-sign Middleton and Brogdon(and frankly Mirotic despite an awful series).

 

They had to focus on Middleton, but as Giannis continues to grow, just as a 24 year old LeBron had to continue to grow, and he starts hitting his jumpers, they'll have to play us differently.

 

I like this team and I like the future of this team a lot. Ideally I wouldn't pay Middleton the max, but if the choice is overpaying by 4-6 million a year or trying to find some vet to take his place along with Sterling Brown, Snell, DDV, I'll gladly take Middleton being overpaid.

 

 

What I don't agree with is that this team needs another superstar. I don't believe that at all. We've seen plenty of teams win without a 2nd superstar, but a good, deep roster and one dominant player so long as those other players work well with that dominant player.

 

Now if Houston wants to trade Chris Paul to Milwaukee for Middleton and Mirotic since Paul is utterly wasted in Houston, I'd be on board with that, but since he's 35 and that's almost impossible, I'll just be happy watching Giannis HOPEFULLY mature into a player who can lead a team similar to this to NBA ChampionshipS in the future while dealing with how much this completely sucks right now.

[OnTheBlack]

Not sure if you guys know this yet...but the reporter leaked a story immediately after the game that Giannis is likely to leave MKE if there is no Finals run in 2020. That's who asked the question. He got pissed and left. Rightfully.

 

 

Was it that Malika Andrews story on ESPN?

 

I hope that was because Giannis was annoyed by the BS reporting and not because it was something that leaked from his camp. Though I really don't know how big of a camp he has that decides such things as he seems to keep things pretty close to his family.

[owbc]

I have some gripes about in-game adjustments and Giannis’ play but I think it ultimately comes down to inexperience. I can tell this loss won’t sting for long and they will be back in the ECF in 2020.

[coolhandluke121]

I have some gripes about in-game adjustments and Giannis’ play but I think it ultimately comes down to inexperience. I can tell this loss won’t sting for long and they will be back in the ECF in 2020.

 

Yes. It comes down to getting acclimated to the high pressure and stakes. It's Toronto's turn.

 

I logged in expecting to see lots of agendas. Most people pushing one agenda or another have a point, and it's mostly arguing about whether their pet issue was a bigger problem than someone else's, but I think it's mainly shooting (related to being tense under pressure) and inexperience.

 

However, despite all the agendas, I was not prepared to log in and see people complain about Hill. That's mind-boggling. Over 50% from the field, 40% from 3, and 85% from the line in the series. 10.7 ppg and 4.7 rpg as a back-up. 15 assists, 10 steals, and, incredibly, just TWO TURNOVERS IN THE ENTIRE SERIES against a great defense. Great defense all series with less than 2 personal fouls a game against a team that was otherwise killing the Bucks at the line. Literally every single problem the Bucks had all series, Hill was one of the few players, if not the only player, fixing the problem instead of compounding it. It's just unbelievable that anyone would have the audacity to whine about one 4-10 game considering all the other issues the Bucks had. And it speaks to my point and yours about the importance of experience.

[nodakfan17]

It’s funny to think that Lasry and Edens have owned the team for 5 years and the Bucks’ two best assets (Giannis and Middleton) are holdovers from the Herb Kohl era.

[MrTPlush]

Not sure if you guys know this yet...but the reporter leaked a story immediately after the game that Giannis is likely to leave MKE if there is no Finals run in 2020. That's who asked the question. He got pissed and left. Rightfully.

 

 

Was it that Malika Andrews story on ESPN?

 

I hope that was because Giannis was annoyed by the BS reporting and not because it was something that leaked from his camp. Though I really don't know how big of a camp he has that decides such things as he seems to keep things pretty close to his family.

 

As much as one would think Giannis is loyal to the Bucks NBA players want to win and sadly it is fairly easy for them to get paid the most and get pretty easy championship runs by bolting. We will see how long he loves Milwaukee if they can’t even get to the finals.

 

He doesn’t seem like the kind of guy to bolt that fast...but I guess you never know.

[adambr2]

I know this is a bad attitude to have, but the whole "we'll be back" talk never does much for me. Everyone thinks they'll be back. Sometimes you just don't make it back. We could follow Philly's path next year and get knocked out in Round 2. We just don't know. People think we'll have an improved supporting cast next year -- how? We don't even have enough to keep all our own much less bring in much for outside help, and we're not likely getting immediate help in the draft. I think we'll have to lean on Giannis more than ever before and count on his improvement.

 

Every missed opportunity is a missed opportunity. We were at full health in the ECF which gave us a great shot. We might not have the same luck next year.

 

Best case scenario is we are indeed back, we keep most of the supporting cast, and Durant leaves Golden State and we knock off a weaker Warrior team. Worst case scenario is we don't make it back, Giannis doesn't sign his supermax, and we are forced to trade him after next season. Both scenarios could happen.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Well, we'll be back is all we have. It's either that or the we suck forever pout fest.

 

I won't read anything into Giannis. One person in the world knows what he's going to do and that's him. Everything else is noise. I learned a long time ago to not trust anything they say or do until it's time to sign a deal. That relationship could sour in a year. You just don't know.

 

Honestly, the biggest thing outside of the Bucks own roster management is that Leonard leaves Toronto. That would make things a lot less muddy if he goes to the Clippers or something. Boston will retool and others will step up and backwards. But we'll have a 50 win competitor and that's reason for hope.

[GAME05]

Almost an entire team that hasn't seen so much as Round 2 in the playoffs versus a team that would've had the #1 seed had they not sat Kawhi 20 games in the regular season. The script can easily be flipped and we just lost to the better team. So it goes.

 

There's an entire offseason to try and develop Giannis' jumpshot/3-pt shot, as well as time to develop an offensive strategy designed around beating the Giannis Wall. And ultimately you can't keep superstars down for very long. Regardless of who leaves in the offseason there's no reason to think that barring injury, the Bucks shouldn't be one of the three best teams in the East.

 

Boston either loses Kyrie and does a soft rebuild with Tatum, or they keep Kyrie and get Tatum and Brown complaining all season about getting ignored. Philadelphia is a mess and Toronto may well watch their entire franchise bolt for the Clippers. The East may well be even worse next year.

[HiAndTight]

It’s funny to think that Lasry and Edens have owned the team for 5 years and the Bucks’ two best assets (Giannis and Middleton) are holdovers from the Herb Kohl era.

 

 

I don't. Giannis is the single best asset in the entire NBA. Really hard to blame them for not topping that in 5 years. And then I'd say they've brought a pretty biggest asset to the Bucks by helping them build a stadium. Or adding a full supporting cast of players around those two. Or coach Bud.

[HiAndTight]

I have some gripes about in-game adjustments and Giannis’ play but I think it ultimately comes down to inexperience. I can tell this loss won’t sting for long and they will be back in the ECF in 2020.

 

Yes. It comes down to getting acclimated to the high pressure and stakes. It's Toronto's turn.

 

I logged in expecting to see lots of agendas. Most people pushing one agenda or another have a point, and it's mostly arguing about whether their pet issue was a bigger problem than someone else's, but I think it's mainly shooting (related to being tense under pressure) and inexperience.

 

However, despite all the agendas, I was not prepared to log in and see people complain about Hill. That's mind-boggling. Over 50% from the field, 40% from 3, and 85% from the line in the series. 10.7 ppg and 4.7 rpg as a back-up. 15 assists, 10 steals, and, incredibly, just TWO TURNOVERS IN THE ENTIRE SERIES against a great defense. Great defense all series with less than 2 personal fouls a game against a team that was otherwise killing the Bucks at the line. Literally every single problem the Bucks had all series, Hill was one of the few players, if not the only player, fixing the problem instead of compounding it. It's just unbelievable that anyone would have the audacity to whine about one 4-10 game considering all the other issues the Bucks had. And it speaks to my point and yours about the importance of experience.

 

 

Where are all the complaints about Hill? Are you maybe going back and reading them from the time they happened? He made a couple of bad plays down the stretch and I saw someone mention that we can't afford to have Hill screwing up right now. I didn't see many people on Hill.

 

I've also determined I no longer know what they call a turnover. Hill had more than two times he turned the ball over.

 

 

But no, Hill was pretty good this series. He certainly didn't cost them anything. I wish he'd have not thrown the ball up to Giannis in the middle of 4 long Raptors, but that was likely the play called coming out of the TO.

 

Hill was definitely an asset. He wasn't a flawless one, but certainly helped more than he hurt anything during this series and maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen anyone disagree. Hill's experience was huge. The experience this team got was huge as well. I'm not sure it'll matter for Bledsoe, but I do think it'll matter for Giannis, Brogdon, Middleton, etc...etc...

 

There really is only one player I'm willing to point at and say, "that guy hurt us," and that's Mirotic. I won't even say it about Bledsoe because he's by far our best perimeter defender(and we have good perimeter defenders).

[coolhandluke121]

 

 

Where are all the complaints about Hill? Are you maybe going back and reading them from the time they happened?

 

At least a couple people said he was bad last night. Basically because of that one bad lob to Giannis and a missed 3 in the 4th. And this was not just during the game, which is an emotional reaction, but after the game that people said he was bad.

[adambr2]

 

 

Where are all the complaints about Hill? Are you maybe going back and reading them from the time they happened?

 

At least a couple people said he was bad last night. Basically because of that one bad lob to Giannis and a missed 3 in the 4th. And this was not just during the game, which is an emotional reaction, but after the game that people said he was bad.

 

Just went and looked back at the whole postgame on here. Did not really see anything overly critical of Hill after the game. I did include his name as a guy who didn't step up, but I included basically everyone in that when I said we needed one guy to step up and no one did.

[coolhandluke121]

I don't even care if Giannis says he might leave if they don't make the finals, which by the way isn't even what that story reported. Technically it said making the finals would convince him to stay, which isn't exactly the same as saying he is considering leaving. It's saying he won't consider leaving if they make the finals, but it's not saying he is considering leaving if they don't. It just means he's not locked in to staying yet, nor should he be.

 

It's good that he's putting pressure on them. They need to feel pressure to pay that luxury tax and keep the team together. Saying he's staying for sure could cause them to take him for granted. I remember a few years ago he backtracked and said he wants to stay, but if they don't do their job and eventually make the team better, he would have to consider other options. Nothing wrong with that. And don't forget that he signed for less than a full max extension on his current contract because he wanted to be eligible for the supermax sooner. Only the Bucks can give him that.

 

And it's obviously a stupid time to ask that question because you can't read anything into a player's reaction after such an emotional loss.

[HiAndTight]

 

 

Where are all the complaints about Hill? Are you maybe going back and reading them from the time they happened?

 

At least a couple people said he was bad last night. Basically because of that one bad lob to Giannis and a missed 3 in the 4th. And this was not just during the game, which is an emotional reaction, but after the game that people said he was bad.

 

Just went and looked back at the whole postgame on here. Did not really see anything overly critical of Hill after the game. I did include his name as a guy who didn't step up, but I included basically everyone in that when I said we needed one guy to step up and no one did.

 

 

Same here. Sometimes things stand out to you(like when Hill turned his back dribbling the ball with Lowry pressuring him multiple times last night) just because they're on your head OR they stand out to you because you don't expect them to come from a certain player.

Hill made a couple of poor plays last night. He kinda short-armed a bunny, on another I'm not sure what happened, he had a wide open corner 3, bobbled the ball and then caught it and by then he had forced it and there was the throwaway to Giannis.

None of those are really bad plays(save for the last one, again, a play that was drawn up, but you expect the guy with 115 playoff games to see it's not that) they're just not playing you expect from the one vet who's been there.

 

Hill played well in the playoffs. He wasn't to blame. I think you're letting your...affinity for Hill cloud your judgment here a bit. He's not immune to criticism. Not even Giannis is. The few things he did wrong though were in the course of a game and shouldn't really even be notable in an average game.

 

 

Mirotic however. I think for this series, I'd rather we had Maker. (and anyone wondering if that should be in blue, it shouldn't be, given what Mirotic did, I'd have rather had a few minutes of Maker's length than Mirotic).

[homer]

Pretty well sums it up:

 

[HiAndTight]

I don't even care if Giannis says he might leave if they don't make the finals, which by the way isn't even what that story reported. Technically it said making the finals would convince him to stay, which isn't exactly the same as saying he is considering leaving. It's saying he won't consider leaving if they make the finals, but it's not saying he is considering leaving if they don't. It just means he's not locked in to staying yet, nor should he be.

 

It's good that he's putting pressure on them. They need to feel pressure to pay that luxury tax and keep the team together. Saying he's staying for sure could cause them to take him for granted. I remember a few years ago he backtracked and said he wants to stay, but if they don't do their job and eventually make the team better, he would have to consider other options. Nothing wrong with that. And don't forget that he signed for less than a full max extension on his current contract because he wanted to be eligible for the supermax sooner. Only the Bucks can give him that.

 

And it's obviously a stupid time to ask that question because you can't read anything into a player's reaction after such an emotional loss.

 

 

If the Bucks front office does its job and puts a good supporting cast around Giannis, I think he stays.

 

If he was a better player than Kawhi in this series, we're moving on and they're not. I don't think this escapes him and I'm sure he'll be better for it.

 

As for the extension he signed, at the time it was reported by both sides that he took less than the max so the Bucks could keep players around him, but he would have been willing to sign for the max.

 

I don't think he was looking ahead then and thinking about getting the supermax a year earlier when he signed that. It could end up being a major error on the Bucks end, similar to the Wolves when they did the same with Kevin Love if he doesn't re-sign here, but I'm pretty confident he'll be back next year and barring major injuries, this team will be in the finals and he'll re-sign.