Wisconsin Basketball Thread 2019 - 20: BIG TEN CHAMPS & BPI NCAA Champs!

[RobDeer 45]

The UW thing isn't not only that they have a foreign language but that they have 3 years. And they don't flex off it. I do think most if not all school do require some foreign language, but not 3 years. That third year seems to be the real killer. Note, I'm talking for athletes here. As just said Michigan is viewed as good or better of an overall school than UW, but for athletes make these exceptions to basically allow minimum qualifiers. UW is flexible for athletes vs non athletes (just think of the big nationwide scandal with the celebrities) but not as much as the Michigans, OSUs, SEC. It's kind of like UW, Stanford, Vandy, NW, and a few others that still keep a higher standard. And for some reason UW has a stick up their A about this foreign language. This is the first thing UW should do to help recruiting, get rid of the foreign language extra year. And there was one other core class thing they demand that others don't, I don't remember what it was though. Just get rid of those is a good step, even if you still want to hold higher ACT and GPA standards. I also agree that for such a supposed progressive and liberal school it is kind of a racist policy in a way.

 

That said, I don't think this is nearly as big a problem to basketball as it is for football. Just purely based on the numbers of how many kids are needed in football.

As of a couple of years ago, only two schools in the Big Ten did not allow NCAA minimum qualifiers - UW and Illinois. Northwestern allows them; they just don't get good recruits because of zero history of success and because their facilities are awful. If you've never been to their football stadium, you'd think you were at a FCS or DII school. They just renovated their basketball arena, and it still is a sub-par glorified gymnasium. It seats a little over 7,000 people.

 

But have you seen football practice facility? Might be the best thing in the nation. I'll be curious if that will help them get some better recruits. Obviously will always be an uphill battle, but that facility looks amazing.

[OldHeidelberg]

I will just say this, if Gard doesn't land a good 2020 class he is a missed tourney this year away from getting canned or at least should be. The bounce recruiting got from the final 4's seems to have began and ended with the Davison/Reuvers/King class. Wisconsin is a big ten school with 20+ years of athletic success in their 2 top programs, I just don't understand why they are lagging so far behind programs like Michigan and Maryland or even Marquette in basketball recruiting. I complained about it with Ryan as well but it seemed like he brought in a lot of 3 star/borderline top 100 guys consistently. For me that is what is most concerning right now, such a long patch of misses. Hopefully Potter and Wahl come in and make all this sky is falling talk look stupid.

 

 

Well, again, despite the fact that Michigan is a GREAT school, they will take kids that UW won't even look at. But beyond that, the two schools you mention simply have more clout, more name recognition and have deeper pools of talent to draw from. They may not be "blue blood" programs, but they're a step below that and a few steps above UW.

 

Marquette can also let a lot more guys into school than UW can. Dwayne Wade, for example, would never have been admitted into UW.

 

 

I really don't know what the answer is, but I hope someone in Madison figures it out quickly.

 

I don't see why Michigan and Maryland would be a few steps above UW in basketball. They have titles that I remember but Michigan's was about 30 years ago and they had a pretty long run of not making the tourney during the time that UW was going to 18 in a row. I knew admissions were an issue didn't realize how much until reading some of the last few posts, it is rumored to have been the reason they missed on Stone. It doesn't explain all the recent recruiting problems but that policy should change, even recruits who don't have an academic issue probably feel that it will mean less talent on the team and for sure a one and done wouldn't bother.

[MrTPlush]

Didn't Diamond Stone get paid like $16k to go to Maryland?

[tmwiese55]

My best memory on Stone is that he was a silent commit to UW pending his academics, which I think was ACT score. He got the results that weren't good enough and said F it, didn't want to take it again and went to MD. How true that is, who knows, take it for the internet rumor mill that it is. And yes, he was caught in the scandal taking money from MD/UA as well. Which was reported at the time along with a rumor his dad was given a 'consulting' job from Under Armour. I don't know if that was ever substantiated, but it's basically what Zion's mom just got caught doing so....

[OldHeidelberg]

I think the not retaking the ACT thing was Herro, I don't think that is why he decommitted but I think that he didn't bother to qualify with signing day approaching tuned the UW staff into the fact that he was going to go elsewhere.

[tmwiese55]

I think the not retaking the ACT thing was Herro, I don't think that is why he decommitted but I think that he didn't bother to qualify with signing day approaching tuned the UW staff into the fact that he was going to go elsewhere.

 

Yea that was said for him too but some have refuted. Stone actually might not have had time to retake now that I think about it, or he had retaken already and that was it. He committed around March Madness, so obviously very late. So yea that was probably it for him, no more time. But that was the story on him, he got that score back and the committed to MD. I wanna so Bo's daughter at some point verified it on twitter.

[HiAndTight]

Pretty much a perfect summary by Plush. They have to make some tweaks, can't just bury their head in the sand. Also, Bo was a master of getting the most out of guys, development, Xs and Os, all that stuff. Generally speaking Gard looks fine in that regard, but fine isn't the same as one of the best ever like Bo. So chances are you're going to need some more talent to make up for that difference. Plus, other schools have caught up to some of the philosophies/strategies that Bo was way out in front of as his points of emphasis so some of that margin is now gone too.

 

 

Teams may have caught up to Bo's ideas, but I don't see many catching up to just how disciplined he got his players to play.

 

Again, I'll readily admit I'm not an expert on CBB. I only watch a few regular season games a year and then like everyone the Tourney. But UW played so crisp with Bo. Turnover, no matter who it was, they were out of the game. And on the rare occasion he had a team with a little more ability, he'd let them play a little more up tempo BB like Decker/Kaminski team.

 

I also seem to remember Bo getting a lot of guys out of the state of Minnesota that the Gophers wanted. Not top 50 guys or anything like that, but good, talented players. So if they're not keeping their own(never that rare if we had elite players) and they're no longer getting "their type" of players from Minnesota, Illinois, Iowa, guys who have a few scholarship offers, but aren't elite, the type of players that would contribute on a top 15 team...well, that kinda sums up the amount of trouble we're in.

[owbc]

UW might have the second highest academic standards but we're still talking a low bar here...you can get in with an ACT score in the teens and they will give you a ton of free tutoring/classes to try and get your score up. I would hope they never lower their standards, regardless of what other schools are doing. At least at Wisconsin they can still legitimately be considered "student athletes" rather than "volunteer athletes" or free labor.

[HiAndTight]

UW might have the second highest academic standards but we're still talking a low bar here...you can get in with an ACT score in the teens and they will give you a ton of free tutoring/classes to try and get your score up. I would hope they never lower their standards, regardless of what other schools are doing. At least at Wisconsin they can still legitimately be considered "student athletes" rather than "volunteer athletes" or free labor.

 

 

VERY few athletes can get in with an ACT score that low. That requires an appeal by a team for admissions to review an applicant who'd been denied and even then it's not a given. As of just a couple years ago the Football team had just 8 of those. They could only try that 8 times. Pretty much everyone had a problem with that from Barry to the coaches.

 

I don't know how many other sports get, but for instance, I know someone who got into Oklahoma State in another sport, dominated there and was one of the best in the Nation, had a 23 ACT score and didn't get in. Another got into NeBraska, though I don't know what his ACT score actually was, the family said a 21. So I usually take 2 points off as a starting point.

 

I believe the average, just to get in without athletics being considered is like 29 and a GPA around 4.

[LouisEly]

Creighton also recruits really well.

Creighton is being investigated as part of the recent scandal.

 

https://www.omaha.com/creighton/mens-basketball/recruit-s-father-testifies-cu-assistant-offered-jays-say-fbi/article_5efd33c5-459d-5fa7-972f-244077019ddb.html

 

https://www.omaha.com/creighton/mens-basketball/timeline-details-creighton-s-involvement-in-college-basketball-s-corruption/article_1edf77ab-4bdd-54e7-819c-fc35fff2777b.html

[stoutdude04]

Not to get too off topic, but it's crazy how much has come out about these schools and how many phone calls and recorded conversations there are, and yet, many of these coaches still have jobs!

[LouisEly]

Innocent until proven they can't generate significant revenue.

[stoutdude04]

Innocent until proven they can't generate significant revenue.

 

Yea, no kidding. The LSU coach is on tape saying, 'we made a damn good offer(or something like that)', and then came out an apologized. Umm, what?

 

Although, of course I went to go find it and I cant. So maybe I am not remembering it correctly. Regardless. Hes on tape saying some shady stuff, and yet, reinstated.

[tmwiese55]

UW might have the second highest academic standards but we're still talking a low bar here...you can get in with an ACT score in the teens and they will give you a ton of free tutoring/classes to try and get your score up. I would hope they never lower their standards, regardless of what other schools are doing. At least at Wisconsin they can still legitimately be considered "student athletes" rather than "volunteer athletes" or free labor.

 

Right. But then we have to limit expectations a bit in both sports and be content in the 2-3rd tier of teams like we are now, with the occasional 'stars aligning' year in either sport that could make a serious run at a title (the two FF teams, and 2017/2011 football). And can't stop our feet and complain about the coaches not recruiting better when they essentially have one hand tied behind their backs due to academics and not paying players (at least not nearly the level of the top programs), plus of course cold weather.

[HiAndTight]

UW might have the second highest academic standards but we're still talking a low bar here...you can get in with an ACT score in the teens and they will give you a ton of free tutoring/classes to try and get your score up. I would hope they never lower their standards, regardless of what other schools are doing. At least at Wisconsin they can still legitimately be considered "student athletes" rather than "volunteer athletes" or free labor.

 

Right. But then we have to limit expectations a bit in both sports and be content in the 2-3rd tier of teams like we are now, with the occasional 'stars aligning' year in either sport that could make a serious run at a title (the two FF teams, and 2017/2011 football). And can't stop our feet and complain about the coaches not recruiting better when they essentially have one hand tied behind their backs due to academics and not paying players (at least not nearly the level of the top programs), plus of course cold weather.

 

 

I guess that depends on how many tiers you think they are. The Football program is a contender year in and year out and just pulled in one of it's best recruiting classes in years and the best PP QB in the class.

If your "1st tier" is Clemson and Alabama, then I'm fine with where we are now. The BB program, however, went to 3 FF's since 2000, they were in the Championship game and had the SIXTH longest run of consecutive NCAA tournament invitations of all time just snapped in 2017. So...whatever tier that is, that's the tier I'd hope they'd strive for. That's a tier that gives them a chance every year. And we did all that before UW actually did give the Athletic Department a little more rope with regards to admissions.

[brooks_quichenick]

Jonathan and Jordan Davis have both verbally committed for UW’s 2020 class

[nodakfan17]

This basketball nugget isn’t worthy of its own thread, so I’ll leave it here:

 

I’m surprised by UConn joining the Big East. They don’t exactly fit the private school, basketball-only profile. Since the Big East / American split in 2013, I figured UConn would eventually end up in the Big Ten or ACC.

[OldHeidelberg]

This basketball nugget isn’t worthy of its own thread, so I’ll leave it here:

 

I’m surprised by UConn joining the Big East. They don’t exactly fit the private school, basketball-only profile. Since the Big East / American split in 2013, I figured UConn would eventually end up in the Big Ten or ACC.

 

 

I think they are throwing up the white flag on the football program and possibly dropping back to FCS. Nova and I think Butler have FCS programs. The Big Ten or ACC aren't likely to expand any time soon and without a top football program UConn isn't going to be that sought after anyway. They are a founding Big East member and I think they feel like the program has lagged since leaving it, it is certainly a big boost to the conference.

 

Edit: The funny part of this is that I think UConn was like the only Big East team left with enough time in the conference to qualify for the Big East name buyout money so got a big lump of cash at the time and now rejoins anyway.

[patrickgpe]

This basketball nugget isn’t worthy of its own thread, so I’ll leave it here:

 

I’m surprised by UConn joining the Big East. They don’t exactly fit the private school, basketball-only profile. Since the Big East / American split in 2013, I figured UConn would eventually end up in the Big Ten or ACC.

 

There are better schools if the big east wanted to expand. I would have preferred Temple / St Louis. They fit the mold better. UConn hasn't done much since Calhoun retired, minus a championship with his players. I guess for nostalgia it make sense but thats about it.

[OldHeidelberg]

UConn is arguably a blue blood program and I doubt they will be down for long. They are already in the Philly market and St Louis is really a mid major, I don't really think they are even comparable to UConn. Gonzaga is probably the only other team they would want and that doesn't make a lot of sense geographically. Notre Dame seems happy with their ACC deal. They can go to a 20 game schedule now and still play a full home and away schedule, I think they stay at 11 unless Fox or their next TV partner want more games but I don't think that TV contract has been a big success for the network.

[patrickgpe]

This is probably better for the Marquette thread.

 

Yes UConn wil probably be the 2nd more high profile school in the conference on Day 1 (nova #1). It probably makes the Big East a higher profile conference as well. My point was that the schools that decided to start the new big east, all have the same profile and UConn doesn't fit that profile at all. Maybe it won't matter. Maybe their football team will fold or go back to FCS. Also yes, St Louis is a mid major, but I could say the same for Creighton, Butler, and Xavier and they are all doing fine in the new conference.

[OldHeidelberg]

OK, I see what you mean now. I think if they decided to go to 12 teams without UConn in the mix St Louis would have been one of them for sure. Dayton would be a better pick than Temple but they would maybe look for a new market in the east like Richmond. But it hasn't sounded like they were ever going to that unless it was a financial thing for the TV deal. With UConn the Big East should be better than the Pac12, SEC, and maybe the Big 12 most years. Just to keep it badger related it would be pretty cool to play UConn in the Gavin Games some season.

[nodakfan17]

I’ll admit I don’t have a perfect grasp on the realignment situation, but I believe the granting of rights (TV contracts) for some major conferences are up in 2023 (10 years after the last major realignment). The major conferences are unlikely to add new members before then because it would dilute each school’s share of the TV money. I know UConn is not an AAU school, so that hurts their Big Ten chances and they also have some bad blood with BC (which hurts their ACC chances), but I figured they’d still be a top expansion target next time around.

[OnTheBlack]

This basketball nugget isn’t worthy of its own thread, so I’ll leave it here:

 

I’m surprised by UConn joining the Big East. They don’t exactly fit the private school, basketball-only profile. Since the Big East / American split in 2013, I figured UConn would eventually end up in the Big Ten or ACC.

 

There are better schools if the big east wanted to expand. I would have preferred Temple / St Louis. They fit the mold better. UConn hasn't done much since Calhoun retired, minus a championship with his players. I guess for nostalgia it make sense but thats about it.

 

 

Wow...that's pretty surprising. I defer to you on this as I don't follow CBB as closely as others, particularly the minutia of BB first schools and conference realignment, but UConn strikes me as one of the premier programs. As someone else said, a true Blueblood. Maybe that was all Calhoun. But kinda surprised you'd rather have Temple or St. Louis.

 

 

Edit-I read your following posts...makes more sense the way you explained it.

[patrickgpe]

yeah not arguing that UConn isn't a better program than what I listed. The old big east imploded because the football schools were more focused on football than basketball, even though the big east was founded to be an elite basketball conference. If you need to expand and can find a school that is similar to what is already there, (smaller, private basketball only school), it would be a better fit IMHo