Wisconsin Basketball Thread 2019 - 20: BIG TEN CHAMPS & BPI NCAA Champs!

[MrTPlush]

It is actually pretty impressive how much Wisconsin fails getting in state talent to come to Madison...pretty sad to be honest.

 

It may not be entirely Gard’s fault, but he certainly didn’t impress these kids enough and Wisconsin had to of been a major consideration in their mind. Gard failed...how much? Debatable, but it may have been his only saving grace.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think people assume way too often that UW should get anybody good from the state. If I had been a D1 star athlete, I'm going to Florida or Arizona for the women and weather. If I was really elite, I'd be going to Kentucky, Alabama, etc.

 

UW cannot compete with a blue chip guy against schools like that. Madison is a lovely place, and it's a lovely school, but there are plenty of reasons somebody would want to leave. If you're 18 and from WI you may just want to try something new.

[MrTPlush]

That isn’t a valid excuse for missing any half decent prospect. Good and even mega prospects are staying local all the time.

 

Maybe they just have bad luck...but regardless it looks bad.

[LouisEly]

With football it's easy to make the argument that if you want to play in the NFL you need to be able to play in cold weather, especially if you want to win Super Bowls (Patriots, Packers, Steelers, etc.), so might as well play at a cold weather school and go to UW. And frankly, playing football in 90-100 degree weather in September (and practicing in August) is arguably worse than playing outdoors in November. Really can't make that argument in basketball as it's indoors all the time. Also, don't underestimate the draw of the Camp Randall experience - I have friends who don't live in WI and have been to many college football games and they say that Camp Randall is one of the best experiences they've ever had.

 

Looks to me like the Hausers want a shot at a national championship, thus Michigan State and Virginia. They probably know they aren't playing in the NBA (Joey at least, Sam has a shot) so might as well go for that NCAA ring.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't think that's a very good argument at all considering that Alabama has first dibs on 75% of the county's top players. If you're a stud you're going there or Clemson and that ilk unless you're a local kid with a dream to stay local. Playing at Alabama certainly hasn't hurt anybody's chances of going pro.

 

I think fans have a tremendous bias and tendency to assume every local kid wants to stay local. Many don't. Many want to get out of a place like Wisconsin. It is just not a razzle dazzle location and that matters to a lot of kids. People dream of California and Texas football, Wisconsin just doesn't have that kind of pull.

 

This is all simply to say that if a teenager has been dreaming of warm weather, the beach, big cities etc., the pitch from UW is going to do little to change his mind...UW has thrived with a lot of local kids, but they're usually second tier recruits. That's who they are and for the most part, who they're going to be. They'll get Frank Kaminsky now and then when scouts get things wrong, but the Diamond Stone types are more often than not going some place else.

 

Mega prospects are staying local when their local school is a power school. I'd guess the UW recruits getting schollies from Kentucky are few and far between.

[HiAndTight]

I don't think that's a very good argument at all considering that Alabama has first dibs on 75% of the county's top players. If you're a stud you're going there or Clemson and that ilk unless you're a local kid with a dream to stay local. Playing at Alabama certainly hasn't hurt anybody's chances of going pro.

 

I think fans have a tremendous bias and tendency to assume every local kid wants to stay local. Many don't. Many want to get out of a place like Wisconsin. It is just not a razzle dazzle location and that matters to a lot of kids. People dream of California and Texas football, Wisconsin just doesn't have that kind of pull.

 

This is all simply to say that if a teenager has been dreaming of warm weather, the beach, big cities etc., the pitch from UW is going to do little to change his mind...UW has thrived with a lot of local kids, but they're usually second tier recruits. That's who they are and for the most part, who they're going to be. They'll get Frank Kaminsky now and then when scouts get things wrong, but the Diamond Stone types are more often than not going some place else.

 

Mega prospects are staying local when their local school is a power school. I'd guess the UW recruits getting schollies from Kentucky are few and far between.

 

I'd argue it might hurt their 3rd and 4th stringers who get very little playing time, but who would start on 90 pct of the teams in the country. Obviously a bit of hyperbole, but it's amazing how many guys they just shuffle through their. They had Williams, a guy many considered to be the best player in this draft class and the guy who jumps off the screen from that 'Bama front is that Raekwon Davis. That big 6'7 kid who I believe is a true Jr. this year. That's a guy that reminds me a BIT of Albert Haynesworth talent wise. I don't know why he doesn't put up bigger numbers during the season, but in the playoffs the last two years, he's been their best player statistically and using the eye test(of course Williams was likely getting far more attention).

 

Anyway, not a CFB thread.

 

As for the top kids going elsewhere, a lot of this IS related to academics. I know you don't believe that it plays as big of a role as others do, but I know there have been elite recruits that they have not admitted. Barry's fought to get more special exemptions like other programs have, but as recently as 2017 they only got 8 appeals I believe. I know the one of the associate athletic directors through a friend and have picked his brain on occasion.

 

This was an issue that both Bielema and Andersen had. Guys who qualified with the NCAA Clearinghouse, but had GPS of 2.2 or whatever the case may be.

 

Look at Craig Evans. I only mention him because it was made public with him, but if you're recruiting a kid who doesn't KNOW definitively if he will even get in, that's got to hurt you. Evans only switched from UW to Mich. State after he was denied admissions, and that's a kid who grew up 20 minutes away and IIRC was a 4 star recruit.

 

 

In any event, Gard needs to do a better job recruiting and finishing the deal. Chryst is putting together VERY good recruiting classes by Wisconsin's standards. In fact, we could see a freshmen starting at QB this year...one who was ranked as the top pocket passing QB in the country by many...and one who had the opportunity to go to OSU or some of those more glamorous places you're talking about. Though I might be biased as I'd take a brisk fall Day on a UW campus over any other in the country!

Edited May 30, 2019 by HiAndTight

[tmwiese55]

First, the crazy fan thing is relevant to all schools with any fanbase of any kind. So not really accurate to say you wouldn't go to WI because of it, you're just aware of WI. Psychos on twitter and message boards exist for all.

 

Ripping Gard for missing instate is generally fair, I'm annoyed too. But, have to remember Bo did the same thing. This is nothing new and it's primarily due to style of play. If you're a top notch recruit you don't want to play this slow down style where you can't really showcase your individual skills. Plus, when they did get a top 15 recruit they made him come off the bench for a year behind Brusewitz and Evans. I'm sure that didn't help. You also can't ignore the $$ issue in CBB, haters can sit here and say it's an excuse and all that but look at all that's come out in this scandal, it's true. Plus two of homegrown mega recruits in Stone/Looney were implicated right in it just like was said at the time. I'd say their biggest mistake isn't missing these top notch guys, but rather that they're putting too much time/effort into them when they're lost causes (plus might only play 1 year) when they could've been focused on the next tier or two below who'll stay 4 years.

 

Football is just a different animal than basketball due to AAU exposure all over the country in bball. Plus, in football you have to play 3 years regardless so the one year showcase to get drafted doesn't exist. Essentially, in football you know you need to be developed for the NFL and UW does that as well as anybody. Especially at OL and LB. Plus, it's very rare that a top level recruit is ever from WI (partially due to lack of exposure up here). And again, UW pumps out NFL players as good as anyone other than true blue bloods so it's where you'd want to go. BTW- There is a top notch 5 star DL from MKE coming in the next year or two and the last I heard he left WI to go to a prep school elsewhere and it's unlikely he'll go to UW since he'll have the Bama and Clemsons on him.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't know if you're talking about me but I never said or thought recruits wouldn't come to WI based on fans on Twitter. I'm sure it is far, far worse in SEC country than it is here.

 

But what I am saying as far as recruiting goes, is that I don't think many fans of any school are realistic about where their school fits in the NCAA food chain. WI is not a top tier athletics school. That may not alarm anyone here, but there are people hell bent on convincing themselves that it is. If we're talking about only the big dog schools, I would put WI in Tier 3 or Tier 2/3. You have the pro farm schools, your Alabamas, Kentuckys, UNCs etc., depending on sport, and then you have schools like Michigan, OSU, etc., that still have a decent advantage on Madison.

 

Losing someone like Diamond Stone isn't alarming to me. The alarm should be going off when you're missing on mid level guys to places like Iowa or Indiana. WI survives on those recruits, but any blue chip type going to UW should be seen as a very fortunate situation. I just can't pin it on coaches when somebody picks a perennial powerhouse school or one that's farming pros over UW. I think that's just fans going for a scapegoat.

 

Things like State Street and the Camp Randall experience are very cool, but you cannot reasonably expect that to actually sway most kids from being 10 minutes from Venice or South Beach, or playing hoops at Jordan's alma mater. The JP Tokotos are usually not coming to UW regardless of what is pitched to them by a coach.

 

If the academic thing matters, which maybe it does, I wouldn't know what goes on behind closed doors. Well, good. We don't need our state university to turn into a revolving door for rental players.

[HiAndTight]

First, the crazy fan thing is relevant to all schools with any fanbase of any kind. So not really accurate to say you wouldn't go to WI because of it, you're just aware of WI. Psychos on twitter and message boards exist for all.

Ripping Gard for missing instate is generally fair, I'm annoyed too. But, have to remember Bo did the same thing. This is nothing new and it's primarily due to style of play. If you're a top notch recruit you don't want to play this slow down style where you can't really showcase your individual skills. Plus, when they did get a top 15 recruit they made him come off the bench for a year behind Brusewitz and Evans. I'm sure that didn't help. You also can't ignore the $$ issue in CBB, haters can sit here and say it's an excuse and all that but look at all that's come out in this scandal, it's true. Plus two of homegrown mega recruits in Stone/Looney were implicated right in it just like was said at the time. I'd say their biggest mistake isn't missing these top notch guys, but rather that they're putting too much time/effort into them when they're lost causes (plus might only play 1 year) when they could've been focused on the next tier or two below who'll stay 4 years.

 

Football is just a different animal than basketball due to AAU exposure all over the country in bball. Plus, in football you have to play 3 years regardless so the one year showcase to get drafted doesn't exist. Essentially, in football you know you need to be developed for the NFL and UW does that as well as anybody. Especially at OL and LB. Plus, it's very rare that a top level recruit is ever from WI (partially due to lack of exposure up here). And again, UW pumps out NFL players as good as anyone other than true blue bloods so it's where you'd want to go. BTW- There is a top notch 5 star DL from MKE coming in the next year or two and the last I heard he left WI to go to a prep school elsewhere and it's unlikely he'll go to UW since he'll have the Bama and Clemsons on him.

 

I don't believe that was at all meant to be exclusive to UW. In fact I'd say it's extremely mild in Wisconsin as compared to places like the SEC where they go after a guy and his family if he turns their school down. The point as I took it rather was that it DOES still happen in Wisconsin and while it's not as bad as other places, it shouldn't happen at all. It's just extremely classless.

 

 

I agree with the rest of your post. The challenges are different in the two sports. About the pace of play though, I think that's a chicken and egg thing. Does Wisconsin play slower because they WANT to play slow? I don't think so. They've placed an enormous emphasis on not turning the ball over(so much so that Bo would pull you if you did it, regardless who accomplished you may have been) and making good, smart passes.

 

But I believe if you have the elite athletes coming, they'd play more up and down. They did the year they lost to Duke in the Championship and even that team wasn't exactly loaded with athleticism.

 

But we agree, they're not going to get those top 4-5 recruits. But they need to keep being able to identify the kids from Minnesota, Illinois and Wisconsin in particular and find the right guys that fit what they want to do, develop them and then keep them all from leaving. That's as big of an issue as anything. How many players have gone to UW, played for a year and decided to transfer since Gard has taken over?

[tmwiese55]

Teh transfers were good in that those kids likely had no business here anyway and would be clogging up spots. So, still a negative in that he could only get last ditch guys who weren't good enough for a high major. Just not in the way you said. Getting those guys to leave allowed for this shot at the Hausers and to try for better recruits going forward. Another knock I'd say now is how stingy they are on offers due to worrying about scholarship numbers, when the reality is they've struggled to even fill their scholarships. For example, well the whole Herro/hauser class so they didn't get any of the like 5-6 high major recruits from WI that year, probably the best WI class ever. But after that, there is twins last name Davis in state now. Obviously they want to play together but we only offered the better one, I mean we currently have 4 unused scholarships I think we can probably cast a bit wider net. Edited May 30, 2019 by tmwiese55

[MrTPlush]

Mega prospects are staying local when their local school is a power school. I'd guess the UW recruits getting schollies from Kentucky are few and far between.

 

I am sorry, but you are wrong on this. Below ONLY includes guys that stayed local and they ARE NOT power schools. Most schools are comparable or even less decorated than the Wisconsin program...and no they aren't all in shiny southern US. There were many more that may have not stayed local, but definitely went to a lesser schools instead of elite program offers.

 

2019 - #1, #4, #7, #16, #20

2018 - #5, #10

2017 - No Good Examples

2016 - #12, #15

2015 - #5, #8, #9, #10, #12, #14, #19

 

Mind you I stopped after the Top 20. The frequency of guys staying local past #20 is incredibly rampant and common (which in the defense of Wisconsin...the state has not produced a ton of these level prospects in recent years...well the Hausers.)

 

Wisconsin has one single Top 100 recruit since 2013. I think it is more than guys just picking elite programs and staying in the warm sun. This despite being a pretty successful program for years.

 

 

On a different note I find it interesting the Hauser brothers weren't a huge loss, yet the last time Wisconsin had major success they were led by the likes of Kaminsky/Dekker. Who if I recall were tall guys that could shoot some 3's. Given different coach at the time, but similar player duo. Not saying the Hausers are that level of good, but same type of threat.

[tmwiese55]

Generally agree, localness is huge in football but not in bball among the top top guys. For football there's data out there about how rare it is to leave a few hundred mile radius of home. Basically within the region or within a state or two away. Which is why it's very difficult for UW to get elite speed guys at WR/CB and why the SEC schools are at such an advantage (besides rampant paying players and no academic standards) in that the best size/speed combinations are more frequently local to that region.

 

Basketball is just different. For the top guys it's a national recruitment from the beginning since the kids travel the whole country all summer. Get to that #50-150 area that UW should be focusing on and region is very important though. As you see, we basically only get guys from WI/MN and occasionally as far as Ohio. Once you get further down the list I'd guess this holds true for most non elite schools in bball and is similar to football in that kids stay within a state or two away.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I'm sure it is more than elite programs and staying warm. But those are factors and shouldn't just be cast aside.

 

UW is a great school that has to sell itself as a great place to be in spite of a lot of things. Other places don't have that problem. If people can't agree that it's hard to sell teenagers on the upper Midwest we'll just have to agree to disagree. They need to dominate among their peer group like Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, and snag guys that are overlooked by power schools or guys that miss out simply because those schools run out of space.

 

The list that you made is 16% of the talent pool you picked. I'm not sure it advocates super strongly for what you're saying.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

If I can get on UW for anything, it's the failure to parlay back to back Final Four appearances into anything substantial. Dekker and Kaminsky both got drafted and the team was a power for two seasons and immediately fizzled out. You just can't do that.

[MrTPlush]

I'm sure it is more than elite programs and staying warm. But those are factors and shouldn't just be cast aside.

 

UW is a great school that has to sell itself as a great place to be in spite of a lot of things. Other places don't have that problem. If people can't agree that it's hard to sell teenagers on the upper Midwest we'll just have to agree to disagree. They need to dominate among their peer group like Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, and snag guys that are overlooked by power schools or guys that miss out simply because those schools run out of space.

 

The list that you made is 16% of the talent pool you picked. I'm not sure it advocates super strongly for what you're saying.

 

16% is pretty high considering I took only the most elite players and only considered guys who stayed local at non power schools. You could expand that to include any Top 20 guys not going to a power school and it would probably expand to 40% or so. Depends on the year of course. Some years Duke/UK have over half the Top 20 by themselves...some years not so much. For instance 50% of the Top 20 in 2019 didn't end up at power programs. 55% in 2018 and 40% in 2017.

 

A lot of the 20-100 range is Midwest kids and as you say they should be focusing on these kids for when the bigger schools run out of room or trying to keep them in the Midwest. Yet they don't...while other Midwest school do.

 

Now of course I hear people use admission standards as an excuse, while I am sure is valid to an extent, but I doubt that is responsible for an utter lack of recruiting success every single year.

[tmwiese55]

Admissions standards are a legit issue. But generally overblown and I think it should be way less of an issue for the 50-150 area of recruits as a lot of them should be realistic that they're going to be in college for 3-4 years so need to factor in academics and the value of a degree. Top guys of course are frequently just going to have no interest in it. That said, most kids coming from any public inner city background just are very rarely going to have the ridiculous foreign language credits UW requires (due to going to poor schools) and why would they bother getting it when no other schools ask for it. Basically that whole faction of kids is out for UW.

 

And really any kid that gets to his junior/senior year of HS and hasn't done the extra foreign language just out of not knowing the would need or just not liking it (totally fair, I was the same way) are out for UW. And at that point it's probably too late to get it and again why bother when your other 15 scholarship offers don't require it.

 

So do the math on those 50-150 kids of first narrowing to midwest, then take out academics/foreign language issues and how many are really left to fight for?

 

Specific to the last few years though: Hausers, Halliburton, McCabe all fall right in that category and they didn't get any. Probably a few more if I dug instead of just memory.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

What a stupid requirement. I took Latin to fulfill it in high school. Yeah if you're expecting your blue chip basketball recruit from Compton to study Latin for two years, lol, maybe that is WI's problem.

[OldHeidelberg]

I will just say this, if Gard doesn't land a good 2020 class he is a missed tourney this year away from getting canned or at least should be. The bounce recruiting got from the final 4's seems to have began and ended with the Davison/Reuvers/King class. Wisconsin is a big ten school with 20+ years of athletic success in their 2 top programs, I just don't understand why they are lagging so far behind programs like Michigan and Maryland or even Marquette in basketball recruiting. I complained about it with Ryan as well but it seemed like he brought in a lot of 3 star/borderline top 100 guys consistently. For me that is what is most concerning right now, such a long patch of misses. Hopefully Potter and Wahl come in and make all this sky is falling talk look stupid.

[MrTPlush]

I will just say this, if Gard doesn't land a good 2020 class he is a missed tourney this year away from getting canned or at least should be. The bounce recruiting got from the final 4's seems to have began and ended with the Davison/Reuvers/King class. Wisconsin is a big ten school with 20+ years of athletic success in their 2 top programs, I just don't understand why they are lagging so far behind programs like Michigan and Maryland or even Marquette in basketball recruiting. I complained about it with Ryan as well but it seemed like he brought in a lot of 3 star/borderline top 100 guys consistently. For me that is what is most concerning right now, such a long patch of misses. Hopefully Potter and Wahl come in and make all this sky is falling talk look stupid.

 

You can add both Iowa schools to that list, Creighton also recruits really well. Missouri arguably recruits better in basketball. Indiana, KSU, freakin' WKU gets more top recruits. Minnesota, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Purdue, Nebraska, and Illinois all get more top recruits.

 

Wisconsin is out recruited by essentially every Big Ten school and most stomp them when it comes to Top 100 recruits. Any half relevant D1 team in the Midwest easily out recruits Wisconsin. How? Why can other Midwest teams pull from the surrounding states, but Wisconsin looks like a floating plastic bag out in the middle of the ocean?

 

Yes, recruits aren't everything...they have proven they can still win despite that. However, lets not pretend like they wouldn't be better and put together way better teams overall if they could nab some of those guys.

[tmwiese55]

Pretty much a perfect summary by Plush. They have to make some tweaks, can't just bury their head in the sand. Also, Bo was a master of getting the most out of guys, development, Xs and Os, all that stuff. Generally speaking Gard looks fine in that regard, but fine isn't the same as one of the best ever like Bo. So chances are you're going to need some more talent to make up for that difference. Plus, other schools have caught up to some of the philosophies/strategies that Bo was way out in front of as his points of emphasis so some of that margin is now gone too.

[HiAndTight]

What a stupid requirement. I took Latin to fulfill it in high school. Yeah if you're expecting your blue chip basketball recruit from Compton to study Latin for two years, lol, maybe that is WI's problem.

 

 

It's an incredibly stupid requirement. I spent a long time after school working and coaching at a school in Milwaukee. The way the school is run, these kids just don't have a chance. Many of them end up struggling with the very basics, now you're asking them to take a foreign language? Though to be honest, I did not know that was a requirement for admission to UW.

 

But just to give a general outlook, I'd walk into a classroom and this is how it was set up. The kids were just packed into the classes. At least compared to where I was lucky enough to go to a school where we had ~22 kids per teacher in a school with about 1800 kids.

 

But you'd have maybe 6-7 kids up by the teacher. You'd have that many kids with their heads down, just showing up so they don't get in trouble for not going to school. You'd have another 7 or 8 kids in the back of the glass talking and screwing around, usually over the teachers.

 

There are a lot of kids who aren't lucky enough to grow up in a good school district that has the means to properly educate them, and when that chasm starts to open up, it grows and grows quickly in HS. It ends up being a race issue because it impacts black kids far more than it does other kids, but there were so many kids I worked with who would have excelled if they'd been born 20 minutes outside of Milwaukee.

 

Didn't mean to take this too far off topic, but I feel it's relevant to the issue of UW's admissions requirements and how many athlets are at a disadvantage right out of the gate.

[HiAndTight]

I will just say this, if Gard doesn't land a good 2020 class he is a missed tourney this year away from getting canned or at least should be. The bounce recruiting got from the final 4's seems to have began and ended with the Davison/Reuvers/King class. Wisconsin is a big ten school with 20+ years of athletic success in their 2 top programs, I just don't understand why they are lagging so far behind programs like Michigan and Maryland or even Marquette in basketball recruiting. I complained about it with Ryan as well but it seemed like he brought in a lot of 3 star/borderline top 100 guys consistently. For me that is what is most concerning right now, such a long patch of misses. Hopefully Potter and Wahl come in and make all this sky is falling talk look stupid.

 

 

Well, again, despite the fact that Michigan is a GREAT school, they will take kids that UW won't even look at. But beyond that, the two schools you mention simply have more clout, more name recognition and have deeper pools of talent to draw from. They may not be "blue blood" programs, but they're a step below that and a few steps above UW.

 

Marquette can also let a lot more guys into school than UW can. Dwayne Wade, for example, would never have been admitted into UW.

 

 

I really don't know what the answer is, but I hope someone in Madison figures it out quickly.

[tmwiese55]

The UW thing isn't not only that they have a foreign language but that they have 3 years. And they don't flex off it. I do think most if not all school do require some foreign language, but not 3 years. That third year seems to be the real killer. Note, I'm talking for athletes here. As just said Michigan is viewed as good or better of an overall school than UW, but for athletes make these exceptions to basically allow minimum qualifiers. UW is flexible for athletes vs non athletes (just think of the big nationwide scandal with the celebrities) but not as much as the Michigans, OSUs, SEC. It's kind of like UW, Stanford, Vandy, NW, and a few others that still keep a higher standard. And for some reason UW has a stick up their A about this foreign language. This is the first thing UW should do to help recruiting, get rid of the foreign language extra year. And there was one other core class thing they demand that others don't, I don't remember what it was though. Just get rid of those is a good step, even if you still want to hold higher ACT and GPA standards. I also agree that for such a supposed progressive and liberal school it is kind of a racist policy in a way.

 

That said, I don't think this is nearly as big a problem to basketball as it is for football. Just purely based on the numbers of how many kids are needed in football.

Edited May 30, 2019 by tmwiese55

[HiAndTight]

The UW thing isn't not only that they have a foreign language but that they have 3 years. And they don't flex off it. I do think most if not all school do require some foreign language, but not 3 years. That third year seems to be the real killer. As just said Michigan is viewed as good or better of an overall school than UW, but for athletes make these exceptions to basically allow minimum qualifiers. UW is flexible for athletes vs non athletes (just think of the big nationwide scandal with the celebrities) but not as much as the Michigans, OSUs, SEC. It's kind of like UW, Stanford, Vandy, NW, and a few others that still keep a higher standard. And for some reason UW has a stick up their A about this foreign language. This is the first thing UW should do to help recruiting, get rid of the foreign language extra year. And there was one other core class thing they demand that others don't, I don't remember what it was though. Just get rid of those is a good step, even if you still want to hold higher ACT and GPA standards. I also agree that for such a supposed progressive and liberal school it is kind of a racist policy in a way.

 

That said, I don't think this is nearly as big a problem to basketball as it is for football. Just purely based on the numbers of how many kids are needed in football.

 

 

I was told by one of the associate athletic directors that UW has the 2nd most difficult admission standards of all power 5 schools. I believe Stanford was #1.

This wasn't said in a bragging manner, rather a frustrated one.

 

So take that for what it's worth. It's just an anecdote that I heard from someone who works in the Athletic Department.

[LouisEly]

The UW thing isn't not only that they have a foreign language but that they have 3 years. And they don't flex off it. I do think most if not all school do require some foreign language, but not 3 years. That third year seems to be the real killer. Note, I'm talking for athletes here. As just said Michigan is viewed as good or better of an overall school than UW, but for athletes make these exceptions to basically allow minimum qualifiers. UW is flexible for athletes vs non athletes (just think of the big nationwide scandal with the celebrities) but not as much as the Michigans, OSUs, SEC. It's kind of like UW, Stanford, Vandy, NW, and a few others that still keep a higher standard. And for some reason UW has a stick up their A about this foreign language. This is the first thing UW should do to help recruiting, get rid of the foreign language extra year. And there was one other core class thing they demand that others don't, I don't remember what it was though. Just get rid of those is a good step, even if you still want to hold higher ACT and GPA standards. I also agree that for such a supposed progressive and liberal school it is kind of a racist policy in a way.

 

That said, I don't think this is nearly as big a problem to basketball as it is for football. Just purely based on the numbers of how many kids are needed in football.

As of a couple of years ago, only two schools in the Big Ten did not allow NCAA minimum qualifiers - UW and Illinois. Northwestern allows them; they just don't get good recruits because of zero history of success and because their facilities are awful. If you've never been to their football stadium, you'd think you were at a FCS or DII school. They just renovated their basketball arena, and it still is a sub-par glorified gymnasium. It seats a little over 7,000 people.