Wisconsin Basketball Thread 2019 - 20: BIG TEN CHAMPS & BPI NCAA Champs!

[MrTPlush]

I am really not buying the whole he coached him too hard or he yelled at him in front of the home crowd. First off Gard is one of the softest coaches I have watched regularly (especially in game) and secondly that isn't something that makes you leave mid-season.

 

Those things may have helped sink the titanic, but that wasn't the main reason their relationship sank.

[PeaveyFury]

Zak Showalter called out King on Twitter and Tyler Herro came to the defense saying he was making the best decision for himself.

 

The thing is, Showalter literally said that some people play for the name on the front of the jersey, not just the name on the back. Herro seemed to take exception to that, but offered "making the right decision for himself" as his point, when that literally cements Schowalter's point.

 

Also, I've heard the 'Gard yelled at him' thing as well. If Greg Gard is King's vision of a 'hard-on-you' coach, I'd imaging he's going to struggle to find a good fit in D1, and probably lasted far longer than he ever would have under Bo Ryan.

[homer]

Zak Showalter called out King on Twitter and Tyler Herro came to the defense saying he was making the best decision for himself.

 

The thing is, Showalter literally said that some people play for the name on the front of the jersey, not just the name on the back. Herro seemed to take exception to that, but offered "making the right decision for himself" as his point, when that literally cements Schowalter's point.

 

Also, I've heard the 'Gard yelled at him' thing as well. If Greg Gard is King's vision of a 'hard-on-you' coach, I'd imaging he's going to struggle to find a good fit in D1, and probably lasted far longer than he ever would have under Bo Ryan.

 

Yeah that was hilarious. Herro was basically reiterating exactly what Showalter stated.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Also, Herro was going on about a point that I don't think is relevant here. You can talk about "style of play" and that it may prevent guys from coming to UW, but I don't think it has anything to do with this case. This was much more than that. Plus, it's not like Kobe King is going to transfer and play at Duke and go right to the NBA. These are valid conversations, but not in this situation.

 

I think Herro just got into because he's read the things people said about him and wanted to chime in on a guy leaving UW when he wasn't able to defend himself when he did.

 

I also think it's bigger than just "Gard was hard on me." It probably got under his skin to the point he thought it was personal. I really doubt he's the first basketball coach to yell at him. I just think there was a final blow-up that broke the camel's back.

[homer]

 

I think Herro just got into because he's read the things people said about him and wanted to chime in on a guy leaving UW when he wasn't able to defend himself when he did.

 

 

Pretty sure Showalter said something when Herro decommitted so that probably has something to do with it.

[worm81]

Doesn't he also lose a year of eligibility because he has already red shirted? If that is the case, unless he can win the waiver he would only have one year left after he sits out one.

[tmwiese55]

Correct, unless he gets a waiver he'll have to sit out this semester and all of next year and only one year left afterward. I suppose unless he stays in school and can graduate this semester, some get it done in 3 years. I'd guess he's big time banking on a waiver.

[worm81]

I was thinking the same. Someone must be telling him that he has a good case for the waiver.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

Also, Herro was going on about a point that I don't think is relevant here. You can talk about "style of play" and that it may prevent guys from coming to UW, but I don't think it has anything to do with this case. This was much more than that. Plus, it's not like Kobe King is going to transfer and play at Duke and go right to the NBA. These are valid conversations, but not in this situation.

 

I think Herro just got into because he's read the things people said about him and wanted to chime in on a guy leaving UW when he wasn't able to defend himself when he did.

 

I also think it's bigger than just "Gard was hard on me." It probably got under his skin to the point he thought it was personal. I really doubt he's the first basketball coach to yell at him. I just think there was a final blow-up that broke the camel's back.

 

This is all right on. And it's not as if King wasn't aware of Wisconsin's basketball brand. Herro doesn't want to play low-possession, swing offense ball? Fine. But you're totally right that that's not really relevant. King did play in that system. Was finally seeming to get it. So, yeah. He knew what he was in for, and this must be something else.

[LouisEly]

I have been on the fence of whether or not I think it was a flagrant foul. The rules regarding a flagrant foul are kind of vague and depends greatly on the reffing crew. Usually it is summed up as excessive and unnecessary contact. It was definitely intentional and unnecessary. Was it excessive, I guess that is debatable. Though I do think the area He decided to start swinging leaves very little wiggle room before it is considered excessive. Similar to the head (the one on top of your shoulders) has a lower level to achieve excessive.

Because of the recent rules change (can't remember if it was this year or last year), by rule it has to be a flagrant foul because he was called for hooking. Hooking is an automatic flagrant foul now.

[LouisEly]

I need to start a pool on who survives longer Granato or Gard.

One of them won 2/3rds of their games last year and made their sports' post season tournament, one of them didn't, so I know who my money is on.

[pacopete4]

King and Gard Speak

 

This is some drama, wow.

[PeaveyFury]

I don't think either side looks particularly great right now, but King certainly doesn't come out looking clean. He's literally admitting that he quit on his team.

 

"King was held scoreless after missing all five of his attempts from the field and both of his tries from the free throw line.

 

“If I go out there and I don’t want to play, is that really going to do anything for them?” King said."

[stoutdude04]

If I'm one of those 9 recruits...that interview would give me pause. Especially the part where he mentions actions louder than words and about how others are unhappy with how Gard treats them as well...

[pacopete4]

If I'm one of those 9 recruits...that interview would give me pause. Especially the part where he mentions actions louder than words and about how others are unhappy with how Gard treats them as well...

 

I agree to some extent but how much of this is one overly sensitive kid that doesn't like to be pushed? If you made me pick a side just based on all I've heard, that's where I would land on this one.

[stoutdude04]

If I'm one of those 9 recruits...that interview would give me pause. Especially the part where he mentions actions louder than words and about how others are unhappy with how Gard treats them as well...

 

I agree to some extent but how much of this is one overly sensitive kid that doesn't like to be pushed? If you made me pick a side just based on all I've heard, that's where I would land on this one.

 

Yea, you are probably correct. I am just saying, when I was being recruited for mid-level/lower-level college tennis and I committed(I ended up not playing in college), I would definitely take notice of that interview and reevaluate everything, and possibly even reach out to KK. Now take into account that these kids have bigger goals and are only 18 years old...just something to think about.

[tmwiese55]

Certainly entitled to his view and opinion on things and he's not happy he should move on and try to be happy. But, I think anyone rushing to judgment and take what he's saying as fact should probably take it with a grain of salt considering that is basically the opposite of what Bo, Gard, and the current UW football program is known for over the years and opposite what everyone has said about them over the years. But, not everyone sees eye to eye and sometimes people just don't click together.

[wildcat83]

"sent a group message to Gard and his three assistants that he was leaving the team"

 

He broke up with them via text message?

 

That sentence alone makes me lean pretty heavily in favor of him being a kid running from being pushed out of his comfort zone.

 

Be a man and tell people important decisions to their face, don't hide behind a cell phone.

[MrTPlush]

Not sure I would label him as quitting on his team. Seems like he tried pretty hard to communicate his concerns to no avail. There is a reason none of the players told him such and there is a reason most came to his defense on social media. If the other players don't think he is "quitting on the team" I don't know why anyone else should. If someone at my organization felt like they were being treated like trash and didn't want to be there I would support them in their decision to look for something better...not call them a quitter.

 

Calling him overly sensitive and not liking to be pushed is a solid below the belt cheap shot when we have no idea what even went on. Not to mentioned he specifically said he has been pushed harder in high school and travel ball. It was not being pushed hard, it is how Gard went about it and even treated him for non basketball related things.

 

If other players truly do feel similar to King it is not very good...mostly because Gard's comments pretty much seem, 'Oh well, this is how I coach and how we do it here." If you are making players feel like this you might be doing something wrong. Not only that, but if any player feels this way maybe you should alter you approach to coaching them. The fact he had three different meetings and still felt worthless to the point he didn't even want to play basketball anymore is somewhat concerning.

 

Him leaving was the correct choice and the best one for him. As for Gard, I think you just chalk it up as a relationship that just didn't work. They didn't get along and maybe it really wasn't anyone's fault...they just rubbed each other the wrong way. Sometimes in life there are people you just aren't going to mix well with. Now if something similar happens again and someone leaves because they feel they are treated wrong, that is certainly a different story.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

"sent a group message to Gard and his three assistants that he was leaving the team"

 

He broke up with them via text message?

 

That sentence alone makes me lean pretty heavily in favor of him being a kid running from being pushed out of his comfort zone.

 

Be a man and tell people important decisions to their face, don't hide behind a cell phone.

 

He's 21, not 30. He's grown up on text. Probably how 99% of people his age would do this. After multiple meetings with Gard that went nowhere he was probably not up for calling another one.

 

There are a few guys on Twitter, namely Tai Strickland, being cryptic but clearly taking King's side.

 

I do have to wonder though, how much of this is nothing new, and just a byproduct of social media being available to vent feelings in a way it wasn't 30, 20 or even 10 years ago. If Twitter were around in the 70s how many dramatic Tweets would there be about Bobby Knight.

[pacopete4]

The same source that told me about the treatment of King being the reason for this move also told me the Davis twins are as good as gone. They’re dad is working media right now as they figure out their next move. Again, take that for what it’s worth but I found it interesting to say the least.

[MrTPlush]

Really? Because I swore someone asked their Dad shortly after the King announcement and he said nothing was changing with them. Maybe just a smoke screen until they decide where to go...but surprisingly none the less.

 

EDIT: Here is an article on the twins where Gard had had visited them and they remain fully committed. Not doubting they may or may not be still...just figured I would drop the article related to them post King.

 

https://wxow.com/2020/01/30/la-crosse-wis-wxow-la-crosse-centrals-davis-twins-remain-committed/

Edited January 31, 2020 by MrTPlush

[pacopete4]

The source said it is a smoke screen. They have a strong relationship with King and this changed their minds with all he’s told them apparently. But again, we shall see going forward.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The fact that Gard felt he had to go and see them immediately, to me, would lend some credibility to them being gone. He was obviously very worried about that.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

Again, I find this whole thing weird and odd. In part, I don't understand why King is willing to go public with this "I was unhappy about how I was treated" and not name anything remotely specific. I mean, maybe he's afraid of getting labeled in the transfer process, but to accuse Gard and staff of basically being "users" without anything specific is throwing them under the bus anyway.

 

I'm not defending GG blindly here. I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes of the program. I just think King is making a massive cultural accusation, and, if it's important to discuss it, it's better to have it out in the open. Granted, that kind of public disclosure would take a lot of courage, but it's impossible to really grapple with this accusation unless we know what King (and perhaps others) mean.

 

I actually sympathize with his concerns. When coaches call themselves "teachers" but only care about winning, that is troubling. It's just we need more evidence to see if that is indeed the case with Gard and staff.