Wisconsin Basketball Thread 2019 - 20: BIG TEN CHAMPS & BPI NCAA Champs!

[MrTPlush]

Yah, doubt Gard goes anywhere for years. Letting him recruit two really solid classes and then dumping him before he can coach them is silly. Not only that, but would possibly tick off many of those recruits leading to more transferring and then really put the program in the trash.

 

Gard is safe for another 2-3 years minimum.

[FVBrewerFan]

I agree, unless those two recruiting classes start falling apart. They're not in uniform yet.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

I don't know what to think of the King situation. Gard actually seems less prone to in-your-face coaching tactics than Bo (just an impression on my part--I tend to like that Gard is more laid back in general). I wonder if King came in expecting to be the star on FF and Sweet 16 teams, and it just didn't materialize. It's generally good that transfer rules are more open, but the downside is it does kind of encourage guys to bail rather than stick it out. Obviously, no one should have to "stick it out," but some transfers feel more legit than others. No idea what King's situation is, of course, but I don't expect Gard to cater to guys if they don't want to be around.

 

On Davison, I guess Trevor Anderson (who's been an early Showalter kind of energy guy) will get a shot at extended minutes.

[MrTPlush]

Zak Showalter called out King on Twitter and Tyler Herro came to the defense saying he was making the best decision for himself. Showalter of course wouldn't stop responding so Tyler Herro is basically taking a big dump on the Wisconsin basketball program. At one point he said, "Appreciate you, but I would still be at Wisconsin." As one probably knows Herro played one year at Kentucky and is now having quite a rookie year in the NBA.

 

Maybe it is just me, but I personally would not be trying to stir up Herro.

[wildcat83]

There's a huge difference between Herro making the call to go to Kentucky to be a one and done, and Kobe King leaving mid-season. I don't think he takes nearly as much heat if he finishes the season and then transfers out in the summer.

 

I think they give Gard a chance to build on the recruiting momentum he has built up this past year, but his seat is at least warm.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I thought the Showalter-Herro exchange was pretty civil. Also didn't think Herro took a dump on the program, just insinuated that it's not an NBA farm. Kentucky is. I don't think anyone is shocked by that.

 

Twitter is such a wasteland. 40-50 year old adults committing character assassination on 20 year old kids. When most of these warriors were 20 they were at nickel nights on State St. I can't imagine ever being as riled up as some of these people get about this.

 

All that's missing are some rumors that King's grades weren't good enough for Wisconsin. Unless I just haven't seen them yet.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

He has two of the best classes in school history lined up for the next two years of recruiting, so I doubt he gets fired this season regardless of how the schedule plays out.

 

He does, and he better retain them because this is not helping.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

I just think turning this on Gard is a perception issue. Bad media cycle, people blame the coach. The guy's in his fourth full season:

 

1 Sweet 16 (and a buzzer-beating leaner away from an Elite 8)

1 missed NCAA (in a transitional year where the team lost two top 6 rotation guys early and had Davison at PG with one arm)

1 NCAA appearance (beaten by more talented Oregon)

Right in the mix with an inconsistent team this year

 

That's not counting the Bo retirement year, where he finished Sweet 16. Of course, you can go with the Bo's players line, but lots of programs would be just fine with those 4 seasons, especially with the classes coming in. Firing Gard is a "be careful what you wish for" situation. You would be commiting to a rebuild, and it's fairly likely that you'll get someone who is doing what Gard does. Remember, Bo had this team in the NCAA tourney and made some runs but it took the best HS player the state had seen, an elite PG, and an absolute 7-foot unicorn to get to two FFs.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I just think turning this on Gard is a perception issue. Bad media cycle, people blame the coach. The guy's in his fourth full season:

 

1 Sweet 16 (and a buzzer-beating leaner away from an Elite 8)

1 missed NCAA (in a transitional year where the team lost two top 6 rotation guys early and had Davison at PG with one arm)

1 NCAA appearance (beaten by more talented Oregon)

Right in the mix with an inconsistent team this year

 

That's not counting the Bo retirement year, where he finished Sweet 16. Of course, you can go with the Bo's players line, but lots of programs would be just fine with those 4 seasons, especially with the classes coming in. Firing Gard is a "be careful what you wish for" situation. You would be commiting to a rebuild, and it's fairly likely that you'll get someone who is doing what Gard does. Remember, Bo had this team in the NCAA tourney and made some runs but it took the best HS player the state had seen, an elite PG, and an absolute 7-foot unicorn to get to two FFs.

 

I agree with that completely on the perception.

 

The other thing that makes this seem bigger than it is, is that's happened at major programs much more often than it has at Wisconsin even within the Big Ten. Maybe a slightly odd wrinkle that he quit middle of the season, but I've seen this happen way too often to know that the fans wouldn't be going any easier on him if it happened in May. That's a crock that the fans like to say. They're brutal on these guys no matter when they do it, even if they're 16. Go to Herro's original decommit on Twitter and look at the comments...yikes.

 

It's probable that Kobe King was never really happy at Wisconsin and this season just pushed him over the edge. Not every guy is going to like it. Sometimes it's just that simple.

[MrTPlush]

Wisconsin fans were brutal on the Hauser's and they never even hinted at coming to Wisconsin.

 

I think Gard shares blame either way. He was the one who recruited King (I believe). If it ended up a bad fit and things got so sour he left mid-year that is kind of on him. How much blame? Who knows, I think part of it is King wants to be on a team that blow up the scoreboard and isn't playing a chess match. Gard surely doesn't seem like offense is going to be a focus any time soon.

[tmwiese55]

I just think turning this on Gard is a perception issue. Bad media cycle, people blame the coach. The guy's in his fourth full season:

 

1 Sweet 16 (and a buzzer-beating leaner away from an Elite 8)

1 missed NCAA (in a transitional year where the team lost two top 6 rotation guys early and had Davison at PG with one arm)

1 NCAA appearance (beaten by more talented Oregon)

Right in the mix with an inconsistent team this year

 

That's not counting the Bo retirement year, where he finished Sweet 16. Of course, you can go with the Bo's players line, but lots of programs would be just fine with those 4 seasons, especially with the classes coming in. Firing Gard is a "be careful what you wish for" situation. You would be commiting to a rebuild, and it's fairly likely that you'll get someone who is doing what Gard does. Remember, Bo had this team in the NCAA tourney and made some runs but it took the best HS player the state had seen, an elite PG, and an absolute 7-foot unicorn to get to two FFs.

 

I think this take is completely spot on. Take a look around CBB what happens in coaching changes. Go look at Pitt after they pushed Dixon out, things like that happen all the time. Firing him is way riskier than people realize to rock the consistency of this program. Especially when he has the two best recruiting classes UW really UW has ever had (maybe besides Rashard Griffith) lined up back to back. If he doesn't do better with those players? Well then yea he's had plenty of time and you can start looking to transition. And they should probably find a way to do a transition without a 'firing' type of thing that leads to a big dip rebuild type situation.

[pacopete4]

Gard is fine as long as he keeps his recruiting classes intact. If they completely fall apart, he probably doesn't last at Wisconsin long term.

 

I do agree that Twitter is just simply ridiculous with how most behave. For me, if King doesn't want to be a Badger anymore, goodbye and good luck. That's about the end of it. Now, if it were to come out that Gard did something crazy to trigger this, then we can have a different discussion on him. But if it just comes down to King now liking the system, or the coaches being too hard on him, then simply goodbye and good luck.

[homer]

Wisconsin fans were brutal on the Hauser's and they never even hinted at coming to Wisconsin.

 

I think Gard shares blame either way. He was the one who recruited King (I believe). If it ended up a bad fit and things got so sour he left mid-year that is kind of on him. How much blame? Who knows, I think part of it is King wants to be on a team that blow up the scoreboard and isn't playing a chess match. Gard surely doesn't seem like offense is going to be a focus any time soon.

 

King committed to Bo.

[MrTPlush]

Wisconsin fans were brutal on the Hauser's and they never even hinted at coming to Wisconsin.

 

I think Gard shares blame either way. He was the one who recruited King (I believe). If it ended up a bad fit and things got so sour he left mid-year that is kind of on him. How much blame? Who knows, I think part of it is King wants to be on a team that blow up the scoreboard and isn't playing a chess match. Gard surely doesn't seem like offense is going to be a focus any time soon.

 

King committed to Bo.

 

Thanks, that probably didn't help this relationship from the start.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

King sorta committed to Bo. The retirement talk was way out there by the time he committed. It was pretty much a certainty he would not finish out playing under Bo and he knew that, and I think there was some quote at the time that he didn't care who the coach was, UW was his dream. Wasn't Gard a major recruiter anyway? He had to know him pretty well when he did commit.

 

I think he had a hard time reconciling his lifelong dream of being a Badger with the reality of it not meeting his expectations.

[tmwiese55]

Nah, that would have nothing to do with it. Gard was the lead assistant and recruiter for that whole time. He did all the recruiting.

 

Also, I checked the dates. Bo announced in June 2015 that he was retiring after that next year. Kobe committed in September. He knew Bo wasn't his coach and he knew the plan was for Gard to be the coach.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

That's right. I was thinking he announced his retirement in December but he didn't, it was earlier. I can't believe that four years ago already but I thought I remember he quit when he did to ensure Gard the job/get out of the spotlight with the "scandal" that was looming.

[homer]

Potrykus tweeted that King didn't leave because of the offensive style. More to it but he can't divulge.

[wildcat83]

I looked back at the 247 recruiting profile and Gard was listed as the primary recruiter.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

That never made sense to me anyway. He was getting the ball plenty late in the shot clock.

 

I'm guessing those two can't get along, and pure conjecture here, but there was probably one last moment of Gard berating him in practice or something of that nature that sealed the deal.

[tmwiese55]

That's right. I was thinking he announced his retirement in December but he didn't, it was earlier. I can't believe that four years ago already but I thought I remember he quit when he did to ensure Gard the job/get out of the spotlight with the "scandal" that was looming.

 

Pretty much. Bo would've quit in that summer 2015 when he announced that but Gard's dad was passing away of cancer and obviously who knew how the timing and just overall how that would go so. So he started the next year. Ultimately a big factor in the current crapness of the team right now is the way they mishandled all of that and didn't name Gard coach right away. So by the time Gard could recruit all the PGs were signed and you're left with the scrapheap pick up of Trice. Swap trice for a Jordan Taylor type PG and this all is much different right now. SUpposedly Pritchard from Oregon was as good as committed for all that, I think Simpson from MI was another after that. But how can they commit to Gard/UW if they don't he's going to be the coach?

[pacopete4]

All rumors but I work with a teacher and Principal that worked in Lacrosse and taught King while he was there. They said that Gard was always on King and there was a moment in a game in December that Gard chewed him out in front of the home crowd which set all this into motion and finally broke this past week or so. Take that for what it is worth.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't want to take that as fact, but speaking generally, coaches like Gard are typically on players that they think haven't realized their potential. But when you blend that with players who are used to hearing how amazing they are, which is most D1 athletes, they don't comprehend it and it can go awry.

 

Could all be nonsense of course, but that was my guess as to what happened here. Gard went with the tough love approach on a guy that wasn't receptive to it. Not everybody is.

 

If that is what happened, it's on the coach more than the player imo. Great coaches can adapt to the needs of each guy.

[tmwiese55]

All accounts are that Gard is a very easy going and player friendly. Especially relative to Bo. But yea if you look at the Purdue game when King laid a complete dud with 0 points. I'd guess Gard got on him a bit after that game, as the best player that can't happen. Essentially I'd guess this Gard having the attitude that this dude can be so much better and trying to push him to do more. I guess I'd put it on him that maybe he should've been able to read Kings personality wasn't receptive to this approach and gone another way. However, good luck find a CBB coach who doesn't yell or get on his players. And like I said, all reports are Gard is bottom levels of that type of guy. Think of your Bos and Izzo at the top.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think a big way college coaching has changed even within the last 10-15 years is exactly that. "Coddling" or whatever word you want to use is something they almost have to do with some players. It's just a different generation of players than the ones Bobby Knight coached.