2019-05-02: Rockies (Gray) at Brewers (Peralta) [Brewers lose, 11-6 -- Rough outing for Peralta]

[Bulldogboy]

The shame of what has happened to this pitching staff is you could see it coming from a mile away. This team has not developed an every day starter since Galiardo. Nelson counts of course but unfortunately is injured. Letting cheap available starters like Miley go to risk it on the young guns was silly. Then the depth of the bullpen took a hit with injuries and no one of note was brought in to bolster it. I was on record as saying I would have added a reliever before the injuries because the Tyler Thonburg syndrome hits relievers every year. Anyway it's too bad. This fan base deserves better.

 

I'm with you on Miley, but this is pretty revisionist. To develop young starters you have to play them in the majors. I didn't like Peralta, but it's hard to argue that at the end of last year, there wasn't reason to be optimistic about all three guys. These guys didn't come up in April, they were making meaningful contributions in a pennant race. I don't think anyone saw this kind of trouble coming. Basically it was a worst case scenario that happened. Even in my preseason nightmare, at least one guy would be a reliable starter at this point.

 

The Knebel thing sucks. The timing of it sucked worse.

Still hope for Woodruff. My thing is a team that is playing to win now to the extent that we have 30 million in one year deals for Moose and Grandal is riding with 3 rookie starters and no safety net? It never made sense and makes even less looking at it now.

[82brewcrew82]

Still hope for Woodruff. My thing is a team that is playing to win now to the extent that we have 30 million in one year deals for Moose and Grandal is riding with 3 rookie starters and no safety net? It never made sense and makes even less looking at it now.

Ding ding ding. I was confused from the point they acquired Cain and Yelich and never added pitching.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

They did add pitching, with a great acquisition in Chacin that was still a laugher at this point of the season last year. I think he'll be fine. Obviously, the plan was to go bullpen heavy while the starters got ready. But the long game there was clearly these three guys getting into the rotation. I would say we panic more than they do, but it kinda seems like they're doing it as well now.

[vetter]

The shame of what has happened to this pitching staff is you could see it coming from a mile away. This team has not developed an every day starter since Galiardo. Nelson counts of course but unfortunately is injured. Letting cheap available starters like Miley go to risk it on the young guns was silly. Then the depth of the bullpen took a hit with injuries and no one of note was brought in to bolster it. I was on record as saying I would have added a reliever before the injuries because the Tyler Thonburg syndrome hits relievers every year. Anyway it's too bad. This fan base deserves better.

 

I'm with you on Miley, but this is pretty revisionist. To develop young starters you have to play them in the majors. I didn't like Peralta, but it's hard to argue that at the end of last year, there wasn't reason to be optimistic about all three guys. These guys didn't come up in April, they were making meaningful contributions in a pennant race. I don't think anyone saw this kind of trouble coming. Basically it was a worst case scenario that happened. Even in my preseason nightmare, at least one guy would be a reliable starter at this point.

 

The Knebel thing sucks. The timing of it sucked worse.

 

I get it they need to play in order to develop but why would they commit 3/5 of their starting staff on unproven starters that still don't have a third pitch when we're supposed to be in contention for a WS? And that at the expense of gutting a big part of their bullpen from last year. Yes it's a nightmare scenario but no shocker.

 

The decision makers of this organization must have forgotten we made it to the NLCS last October because they've approached the starting rotation as if we won 65 games and we're rebuilding.

 

If the Brewers want to be contenders, they can't patiently wait for these young guys to get it together. Not if they want to win this year.

 

Meanwhile, Cincinnati acquires a handful of proven, stable starting pitchers over the offseason who are already developed. No, they're not huge names and they're not overwhelming but their team ERA is second overall in the majors.

 

But what's really frustrating is after all of that, they follow the same tired old playbook and start Peralta today.

 

What do they call that when they do the same thing but expect a different result...oh right :-(

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The thing is, at some point they were going to move those guys into the rotation and if they believed they were all ready, which they seemed to be for the most part judging their MLB performance last year, then they should have done it. If you think they're ready, you can't go out and sign a bunch of stable starters because those guys will expect to be SP.

 

If the guys can't play, they can't play, and we would have learned that the hard way whether it was in 2019, 2020 or 2021. Their goal is be competitive sustainably, so there is really no difference in when those young kids play, IF you believe they can.

 

I would have liked to see them sign 1 veteran SP to stabilize things, absolutely. But again, with limited resources and confidence in your young guys, I can see them maybe believing it wasn't a great use of resources to do so.

 

I think it all comes back to the worst case scenario unfolding. I'm really doubting that having one vet around would make a big difference in this. There's no guarantee that guy's playing well, and with how bad everyone has been, this is a bigger problem than that.

[vetter]

The thing is, at some point they were going to move those guys into the rotation and if they believed they were all ready, which they seemed to be for the most part judging their MLB performance last year, then they should have done it. If you think they're ready, you can't go out and sign a bunch of stable starters because those guys will expect to be SP.

 

If the guys can't play, they can't play, and we would have learned that the hard way whether it was in 2019, 2020 or 2021. Their goal is be competitive sustainably, so there is really no difference in when those young kids play, IF you think believe they can.

 

I would have liked to see them sign 1 veteran SP to stabilize things, absolutely. But again, with limited resources and confident in your young guys, I can see them maybe believing it wasn't a great use of resources to do so.

 

I think it all comes back to the worst case scenario unfolding. I'm really doubting that having one vet around with make a big difference in this. There's no guarantee that guy's playing well, and with how bad everyone has been, this is a bigger problem than that.

 

I hear you my friend. It just sucks that timing-wise they felt all three were ready in the same season when we're supposed to be contending for a WS and then the worst unfolds. What further compounds the misery is spending $18M to lease Grandal for a year if it turns out we can't even compete. I think Grandal is a fantastic addition and money well spent but not when our pitchers don't give us a fighting chance.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

There's time for things to improve. I don't play the "We wasted money on Grandal" game because if we don't get him we may be in an even bigger hole if/when things get better. We starting Pina then and have what, Kratz getting backup time? How much worse does a bad lineup look then.

[markedman5]

So I guess Jackson wasn't an answer either........

 

I thought that our young starters wou.d have ups and downs.......but they have been rarely good.....at times ok......and mostly really bad.

 

The bad pitching has bleaded over into the defense today......

[Bulldogboy]

The thing is, at some point they were going to move those guys into the rotation and if they believed they were all ready, which they seemed to be for the most part judging their MLB performance last year, then they should have done it. If you think they're ready, you can't go out and sign a bunch of stable starters because those guys will expect to be SP.

 

If the guys can't play, they can't play, and we would have learned that the hard way whether it was in 2019, 2020 or 2021. Their goal is be competitive sustainably, so there is really no difference in when those young kids play, IF you believe they can.

 

I would have liked to see them sign 1 veteran SP to stabilize things, absolutely. But again, with limited resources and confidence in your young guys, I can see them maybe believing it wasn't a great use of resources to do so.

 

I think it all comes back to the worst case scenario unfolding. I'm really doubting that having one vet around would make a big difference in this. There's no guarantee that guy's playing well, and with how bad everyone has been, this is a bigger problem than that.

Limited resources? Why are they limited? Limited by the salary cap? Luxury taxes? I don't get limited. They found 30 million dollars laying around for Moose and Grandal and I was fine with it. They found a ton of dough to refurbish spring training site. Miley wants an extra million bucks and all of a sudden we are limited? Do not let the small market team off the small market hook.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The resources are limited at some point, you and I don't know what it is. That has nothing to do with a "small market hook." You keep bringing that up, and have for months, and it's getting old. Everyone has limited resources in the sense that the money isn't endless. You can't just go out and get every player you want, and they probably had Grandal high on that list.

 

Have you also considered that Grandal and Moose can be unloaded if the team is losing? You can't exactly do that with a locked up FA SP if he's not playing well. Those guys are on one-year deals. Also, we don't have a clue what their finances are. And assuming that they rebuilt the spring training site with player contract money? We have no clue how any of that stuff works. That facility is likely financed and was planned years ago.

[3and2Fastball]

My thoughts are that, if they are at their payroll limits, why spend on Moustakas instead of spending on pitching? That makes almost zero sense.

[rickh150]

My thoughts are that, if they are at their payroll limits, why spend on Moustakas instead of spending on pitching? That makes almost zero sense.

 

Moose has nice numbers so far and has won them some games. When he was out of the lineup, the lineup was quite stagnant. Also, what difference making pitcher takes a one year deal like Grandal or Moose? I still am thankful for the move in bringing him back.

[tmwiese55]

My thoughts are that, if they are at their payroll limits, why spend on Moustakas instead of spending on pitching? That makes almost zero sense.

 

Spitballing here. I'd guess that no substantial improvement quality P option could be had on a low risk one year deal. So the options would be very risky multi year deals to Ps or try to pick up a few wins with a low risk batter instead. As a team that watched Looper, Suppan, Lohse, Wolf, etc I think we know the risk they're trying to avoid.

[3and2Fastball]

My thoughts are that, if they are at their payroll limits, why spend on Moustakas instead of spending on pitching? That makes almost zero sense.

 

Spitballing here. I'd guess that no substantial improvement quality P option could be had on a low risk one year deal. So the options would be very risky multi year deals to Ps or try to pick up a few wins with a low risk batter instead. As a team that watched Looper, Suppan, Lohse, Wolf, etc I think we know the risk they're trying to avoid.

 

Well, sure, however it wouldn't need to be a one year deal. The Grandal, Chacin, & Moustakas money is all coming off the books next year. Braun's money is coming off the books after 2020 etc...

[vetter]

My thoughts are that, if they are at their payroll limits, why spend on Moustakas instead of spending on pitching? That makes almost zero sense.

 

The reality is they spent money on Moustakas because they didn't think they needed to spend it on pitching during the offseason.

 

There were ample pitching resources available that Brewers passed on because they thought their internal options were sufficient.

[3and2Fastball]

My thoughts are that, if they are at their payroll limits, why spend on Moustakas instead of spending on pitching? That makes almost zero sense.

 

Moose has nice numbers so far and has won them some games. When he was out of the lineup, the lineup was quite stagnant. Also, what difference making pitcher takes a one year deal like Grandal or Moose? I still am thankful for the move in bringing him back.

 

I like Moustakas, however Keston Hiura has a .680 SLG in AAA right now. Granted I'm just an armchair GM but it seems glaringly obvious that there is a bigger need for pitching than a 2B.

[tmwiese55]

My thoughts are that, if they are at their payroll limits, why spend on Moustakas instead of spending on pitching? That makes almost zero sense.

 

Spitballing here. I'd guess that no substantial improvement quality P option could be had on a low risk one year deal. So the options would be very risky multi year deals to Ps or try to pick up a few wins with a low risk batter instead. As a team that watched Looper, Suppan, Lohse, Wolf, etc I think we know the risk they're trying to avoid.

 

Well, sure, however it wouldn't need to be a one year deal. The Grandal, Chacin, & Moustakas money is all coming off the books next year. Braun's money is coming off the books after 2020 etc...

 

But if you have Yu Darvish's contract on our books right now we're basically effed. Same If Keuchel is bad and you have 20 mil on the books for 4 more years. MKE just can't take those risks, nature of the small market.

[markedman5]

TH tweet

Counsell says will have to talk about whether Peralta stays in rotation.

[tmwiese55]

My thoughts are that, if they are at their payroll limits, why spend on Moustakas instead of spending on pitching? That makes almost zero sense.

 

Moose has nice numbers so far and has won them some games. When he was out of the lineup, the lineup was quite stagnant. Also, what difference making pitcher takes a one year deal like Grandal or Moose? I still am thankful for the move in bringing him back.

 

I like Moustakas, however Keston Hiura has a .680 SLG in AAA right now. Granted I'm just an armchair GM but it seems glaringly obvious that there is a bigger need for pitching than a 2B.

 

Sure is obvious right now, for sure. But at the time it was the offense that was our issue most of last year, not pitching. So I understood the logic at the time to eliminate the two blackholes we had last year at C and 2B. They had good P last year and would be adding back in Nelson, hopefully healthy Davies bounceback, full years from Wood/Burnes/Peralta as opposed to half years last year. Logically it made sense to think that would make up for the loss of Miley. Turns out their assessment on P that it would continue to be strong was wrong though, so far at least. Of course injuries to Knebel and JJ killed the BP. But all starters outside of Davies have just been below expectations.

[vetter]

But if you have Yu Darvish's contract on our books right now we're basically effed. Same If Keuchel is bad and you have 20 mil on the books for 4 more years. MKE just can't take those risks, nature of the small market.

 

I agree and I think that's why Keuchel and Kimbrel aren't signed with anyone now. Small markets know they can't afford the risk associated and bigger payroll markets that could afford realize that their upside isn't that much better than cheaper or younger alternatives that are out there.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

TH tweet

Counsell says will have to talk about whether Peralta stays in rotation.

 

Who would have thought that Burch Smith would look like a legitimate rotation option at any point this year? But here we are.

 

At this point, I just want to see Jimmy Nelson, for the emotional value more than anything.

[3and2Fastball]

 

Sure is obvious right now, for sure. But at the time it was the offense that was our issue most of last year, not pitching. So I understood the logic at the time to eliminate the two blackholes we had last year at C and 2B. They had good P last year and would be adding back in Nelson, hopefully healthy Davies bounceback, full years from Wood/Burnes/Peralta as opposed to half years last year. Logically it made sense to think that would make up for the loss of Miley. Turns out their assessment on P that it would continue to be strong was wrong though, so far at least. Of course injuries to Knebel and JJ killed the BP. But all starters outside of Davies have just been below expectations.

 

Makes sense. I appreciate the detailed reply. I get it that hindsight is 20/20 etc

 

I suppose when they signed Moustakas I thought "wow, Keuchel or Kimbrel must be coming next", and the disappointment that they didn't add pitching has colored my thinking.

[xisxisxis]

Not sure why all the angst today over another meltdown from the pitching staff... It's their thing so far and, yes, the brewers are still over 500. These are the kind of starts I expect from Peralta, the really good ones have become the exception. Really when your starter has a pitch repertoire of 94 MPH fastball, 93 MPH fastball and 92 MPH fastball, you aren't getting many COLLEGE players out nevermind MLB players. I would love to hear the brewers thinking with slotting him into a starters role given his limited stuff. Did they really think he was going to be successful? Really?

 

The run differential is concerning, even this few games into the season. While it's nice to say we are still over 500, without an improvement in the pitching (everyone) then our "improved" offense will just lead us to a 500 non-playoff team adrift with several one-year rentals leaving and a useless Braun sucking up money and playing time...

 

Go Bucks!

[Bulldogboy]

The resources are limited at some point, you and I don't know what it is. That has nothing to do with a "small market hook." You keep bringing that up, and have for months, and it's getting old. Everyone has limited resources in the sense that the money isn't endless. You can't just go out and get every player you want, and they probably had Grandal high on that list.

 

Have you also considered that Grandal and Moose can be unloaded if the team is losing? You can't exactly do that with a locked up FA SP if he's not playing well. Those guys are on one-year deals. Also, we don't have a clue what their finances are. And assuming that they rebuilt the spring training site with player contract money? We have no clue how any of that stuff works. That facility is likely financed and was planned years ago.

You just made my point for me old school. Don't mean to offend you by having a different opinion but feel free to ignore mine since you don't like it. No harm done on my end.

[vetter]

Not sure why all the angst today over another meltdown from the pitching staff... It's their thing so far and, yes, the brewers are still over 500. These are the kind of starts I expect from Peralta, the really good ones have become the exception. Really when your starter has a pitch repertoire of 94 MPH fastball, 93 MPH fastball and 92 MPH fastball, you aren't getting many COLLEGE players out nevermind MLB players. I would love to hear the brewers thinking with slotting him into a starters role given his limited stuff. Did they really think he was going to be successful? Really?

 

The run differential is concerning, even this few games into the season. While it's nice to say we are still over 500, without an improvement in the pitching (everyone) then our "improved" offense will just lead us to a 500 non-playoff team adrift with several one-year rentals leaving and a useless Braun sucking up money and playing time...

 

Go Bucks!

 

My angst today is why Freddy was even slotted in the rotation to begin with. I get it, Chase had his injury but how many games can we throw away this season to horrendous starting pitching in a very competitive division? I think this team will have some lasting success if they go with Chacin-Anderson-Davies-Woodruff-Gonzalez. I'm not even asking for Keuchel or another high profile arm but please no more Burnes and Peralta in the rotation if we want to salvage the season.