Corbin Burnes moving to bullpen role

[rickh150]

I don't think it's fluid right now and I don't see Burnes going back to the rotation in 2019.

 

It's a catch-22 for this season. If he pitches well, he's too valuable to lose from the pen. If he doesn't pitch well, he's going to San Antonio to work on things.

 

Burnes' future still may be as a starter but given how bad he was in that role so far, you just don't see contending teams go back into experimentation mode in the middle of the season if things are going well. If he was a Miami Marlin, he'd be starting.

 

I think it would take multiple starter injuries for Burnes to find his way back into the rotation before next season.

 

 

Agree with all this stuff.... he is probably 8 or 9 in the rotation totem pole.

He can look to start again next season. Then again, if he is lights out as a reliever again this year, just Hader him and say your role and nitch is set. Another multi inning option in the pen is a great weapon to have.

[DHonks]

I really think the key is that Burnes needs to follow Woodruff's plan of attacking hitters the same from the rotation and pen. Too many guys nibble and mess around when starting. You could see Woodruff develop that "look" last year that you see from stud pitchers. I've always been impressed how the Cards break kids in out in the pen where they learn to attack, then they transition seamlessly to the rotation.

 

Now if we want to mix the Cards' method with the A's method (Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Harden, Harang, etc), we should try to get 5-6 years out of the pitchers and then let them walk or trade them for a boat-load of prospects. I've always liked the idea of keeping guys around for a while, but once a pitcher makes too much, they've probably logged a lot of innings and are full of value

[rickh150]

I really think the key is that Burnes needs to follow Woodruff's plan of attacking hitters the same from the rotation and pen. Too many guys nibble and mess around when starting. You could see Woodruff develop that "look" last year that you see from stud pitchers. I've always been impressed how the Cards break kids in out in the pen where they learn to attack, then they transition seamlessly to the rotation.

 

Now if we want to mix the Cards' method with the A's method (Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Harden, Harang, etc), we should try to get 5-6 years out of the pitchers and then let them walk or trade them for a boat-load of prospects. I've always liked the idea of keeping guys around for a while, but once a pitcher makes too much, they've probably logged a lot of innings and are full of value

 

His attack mode led to what, 11 HRs, mainly on fastballs that were heartland. The key is throwing the other stuff for strikes and getting ahead in the count.

Relief probably gives him a couple more mphs on his fastball, along with better handpicked matchups from CC. The opportunity for his success is greater. He also seems comfortable with the role of high leverage situation relief pitcher, getting that experience down the stretch and in playoff games last year.

[HiAndTight]

I really think the key is that Burnes needs to follow Woodruff's plan of attacking hitters the same from the rotation and pen. Too many guys nibble and mess around when starting. You could see Woodruff develop that "look" last year that you see from stud pitchers. I've always been impressed how the Cards break kids in out in the pen where they learn to attack, then they transition seamlessly to the rotation.

 

Now if we want to mix the Cards' method with the A's method (Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Harden, Harang, etc), we should try to get 5-6 years out of the pitchers and then let them walk or trade them for a boat-load of prospects. I've always liked the idea of keeping guys around for a while, but once a pitcher makes too much, they've probably logged a lot of innings and are full of value

 

His attack mode led to what, 11 HRs, mainly on fastballs that were heartland. The key is throwing the other stuff for strikes and getting ahead in the count.

Relief probably gives him a couple more mphs on his fastball, along with better handpicked matchups from CC. The opportunity for his success is greater. He also seems comfortable with the role of high leverage situation relief pitcher, getting that experience down the stretch and in playoff games last year.

 

 

No, hit "attack mode" is definitely not what led to him giving up 11 HR's. His lack of FB command and poor luck led to 11 HR's giving up to fastball's that were belt high.

 

It'd be really stupid on the Brewers side if that was the last chance he got to be a starter(and I don't think the Brewers are stupid). Also...his matchup's weren't really handpicked last year. He was coming in to face whomever whenever they needed him and he was throwing multiple innings.

 

He's got the makeup and the stuff to be a starter. If he can be better used as a reliever this year again, fine. This year is a bit of an aberration with Wahl/Knebel both going down and Jeffress not looking good, but just looking ahead to the future, he should be a starter again. The very limited number of starts doesn't really tell us anything about what his ability as a starter is.

[HiAndTight]

I don't think it's fluid right now and I don't see Burnes going back to the rotation in 2019.

 

It's a catch-22 for this season. If he pitches well, he's too valuable to lose from the pen. If he doesn't pitch well, he's going to San Antonio to work on things.

 

Burnes' future still may be as a starter but given how bad he was in that role so far, you just don't see contending teams go back into experimentation mode in the middle of the season if things are going well. If he was a Miami Marlin, he'd be starting.

 

I think it would take multiple starter injuries for Burnes to find his way back into the rotation before next season.

 

 

Agree with all this stuff.... he is probably 8 or 9 in the rotation totem pole.

He can look to start again next season. Then again, if he is lights out as a reliever again this year, just Hader him and say your role and nitch is set. Another multi inning option in the pen is a great weapon to have.

 

A niche role is Daniel Brown as a left handed specialist. Not a power righty who throws multiple pitches being a reliever just because you pulled the plug on him after a handful of starts early in his career.

 

I'd hate to imagine what Roy Halladay would have become had this been the route he took. And we've got a ton of options just in house for the pen next year. Guys who are not quite ready or might be ready by the end of this year and then two big time power arms coming back next year in Wahl and Knebel.

[Boomer5]

This is 2019. Being a starter or reliever doesn’t matter as long as he finds a role that works for him. I’d rather he can pitch 2 good innings a few times a week than stink it up once every 5 days.

[HiAndTight]

This is 2019. Being a starter or reliever doesn’t matter as long as he finds a role that works for him. I’d rather he can pitch 2 good innings a few times a week than stink it up once every 5 days.

 

 

So....after 4 starts in which he was incredibly unlucky with a .452 BABIP and gave up an incredibly high and unstainable HR rate, the ONLY two options that now exist for Corbin Burnes are to either pitch 2 innings a few times a week or "stink it up once every 5 days?"

 

How many ace pitchers would have been relegated to the pen if we used this type of absurd logic using his age, his pedigree, and the absurdly small sample size? Roy Halladay gave up 14 HR's in 60-some innings at roughly the same age and had a 10 ERA. He was a hard thrower. I wonder if he'd have been better in the pen? Greinke struggled early on and moved to the pen. I wonder if he'd have had a better career and been more valuable had they not moved him back to the rotation?

 

And there is still a significant difference between being a starter and being a reliever. Starters are far-far more important. If they weren't, you wouldn't see the top reliever in last years game sign for 3 years and 27 million like we saw with Ottavino. They'd get paid closer to what Patric Corbin got paid, 6/140.

 

And yes, being a starter or a reliever DOES absolutely matter. This is akin to saying, "I don't care if Keston Hiura comes up and is able to start every day at 2nd base," --and then after 10 games of him struggling and being moved to the bench where he starts to thrive--"I just care that he gets us 6 good at-bats a week."

 

It seems because we did such a great job(by we I mean CC managing the pen and Stearns putting it together) or getting through games last year during that relatively short playoff push and then the post-season, despite not having the Walker Buehler, Kershaw-types, some people on here are greatly diminishing the value and importance a reliable starting pitcher brings, much less one who's capable of being a #2/3 or higher if we're just looking at his ceiling.

 

You can't expect to contend if you can't get good innings from your starters, and you sure can't develop starters if you just relegate them to the pen because they struggle a bit in the first two weeks they start.

 

It's great to have relievers like Hader. But if the Brewers thought Hader was closer to Chris Sale, he'd be starting games most likely. And we can still develop them. But you don't turn a guy into one until he fails in the rotation and I need to see him given more than 4 starts before I'll believe he can or cannot succeed there.

 

 

There were a lot of people who wanted Woodruff to pitch in that multi-inning type of role in the pen, but we're definitely lucky to see him in the rotation. Hopefully, a year from now when we've got a healthy and better stocked BP, Burnes will be pitching as well as Woodruff is.

[Brew crew 92]

This is 2019. Being a starter or reliever doesn’t matter as long as he finds a role that works for him. I’d rather he can pitch 2 good innings a few times a week than stink it up once every 5 days.

 

 

So....after 4 starts in which he was incredibly unlucky with a .452 BABIP and gave up an incredibly high and unstainable HR rate, the ONLY two options that now exist for Corbin Burnes are to either pitch 2 innings a few times a week or "stink it up once every 5 days?"

 

How many ace pitchers would have been relegated to the pen if we used this type of absurd logic using his age, his pedigree, and the absurdly small sample size? Roy Halladay gave up 14 HR's in 60-some innings at roughly the same age and had a 10 ERA. He was a hard thrower. I wonder if he'd have been better in the pen? Greinke struggled early on and moved to the pen. I wonder if he'd have had a better career and been more valuable had they not moved him back to the rotation?

 

And there is still a significant difference between being a starter and being a reliever. Starters are far-far more important. If they weren't, you wouldn't see the top reliever in last years game sign for 3 years and 27 million like we saw with Ottavino. They'd get paid closer to what Patric Corbin got paid, 6/140.

 

And yes, being a starter or a reliever DOES absolutely matter. This is akin to saying, "I don't care if Keston Hiura comes up and is able to start every day at 2nd base," --and then after 10 games of him struggling and being moved to the bench where he starts to thrive--"I just care that he gets us 6 good at-bats a week."

 

It seems because we did such a great job(by we I mean CC managing the pen and Stearns putting it together) or getting through games last year during that relatively short playoff push and then the post-season, despite not having the Walker Buehler, Kershaw-types, some people on here are greatly diminishing the value and importance a reliable starting pitcher brings, much less one who's capable of being a #2/3 or higher if we're just looking at his ceiling.

 

You can't expect to contend if you can't get good innings from your starters, and you sure can't develop starters if you just relegate them to the pen because they struggle a bit in the first two weeks they start.

 

It's great to have relievers like Hader. But if the Brewers thought Hader was closer to Chris Sale, he'd be starting games most likely. And we can still develop them. But you don't turn a guy into one until he fails in the rotation and I need to see him given more than 4 starts before I'll believe he can or cannot succeed there.

 

 

There were a lot of people who wanted Woodruff to pitch in that multi-inning type of role in the pen, but we're definitely lucky to see him in the rotation. Hopefully, a year from now when we've got a healthy and better stocked BP, Burnes will be pitching as well as Woodruff is.

 

2 things:

 

1.) the crew NEEDS a high leverage closer type ARM RIGHT NOW in their bullpen, and Burnes is it. Unless they sign kimbrel(which I would do), but highly unlikely.

 

2.) the crew will start him next year, when as you say, they should have a stacked pen. I believe he’ll be given ample opportunity to develope as a starting pitcher.