Packers roster analysis, post draft moves/needs?

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Again I have a minor issue with calling it cap related. Couldn't you say that any move is "cap related"? I don't think they want Daniels. $8m for ill-fitting DL is just not a wise thing to do. Yeah if he was making $600k they would probably keep him. But all of their DL can do multiple things. I don't think there was any chance he was getting extended beyond this season anyway. 31 y/o declining DL do not stick around very long.

 

Just because you keep a less talented player doesn't really mean it's a cap-related issue. A less talented 23 year old makes more sense to retain than a 31 y/o DL coming off injury.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

With the significant raises that the Smiths, Adams, Rodgers, Clark, Turner, and others are due, you can almost guarantee that Graham gets cut after the season to free up $8M in space. Right now the Packers are at $190M for 2020. Probably a safe bet that Lane Taylor gets cut too ($4.55 cap savings). Would not be surprised if Linsley gets cut ($8M in cap space), which could explain the drafting of Jenkins.

 

Probably but the deal was structured to cut him after two years, basically. If he has a resurgence there might be a chance, but I would bet on him getting cut. I don't think they could do that this year with their TE group.

[KeithStone53151]

With the significant raises that the Smiths, Adams, Rodgers, Clark, Turner, and others are due, you can almost guarantee that Graham gets cut after the season to free up $8M in space. Right now the Packers are at $190M for 2020. Probably a safe bet that Lane Taylor gets cut too ($4.55 cap savings). Would not be surprised if Linsley gets cut ($8M in cap space), which could explain the drafting of Jenkins.

 

Probably but the deal was structured to cut him after two years, basically. If he has a resurgence there might be a chance, but I would bet on him getting cut. I don't think they could do that this year with their TE group.

 

I tend to agree here, especially if the rookie takes a few steps forward. Graham will either be cut if he's mediocre or worse...or traded if he's crazy good.

[yourout]

I lost track, who won the fight about Martinez?

 

 

Nobody, you don't win a fight about an opinion

 

You lose an argument when you tell people you're more qualified than they are without having a clue as to their life experiences and then you misrepresent what they said and then, in my opinion, get extraordinarily condescending.

 

I did... I made one comment and got the hell out of there.

[OldHeidelberg]

Hmmm... 2-1/2 weeks until pre-season and the Packer boards are quiet.

 

25 pages on the Bucks offseason thread and we are on 7 here. My how things have changed in a just a couple of years.

 

Early camp reports seem to indicate D is ahead of the offense, not very surprising. Glad to see both King and Gary practicing out of the chute, King in particular really needs to stay healthy. Really pretty good health across the board. Signed a running back yesterday Corey Grant who backed up in JAx for a few years, fast guy who probably has a good chance to stick.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Hmmm... 2-1/2 weeks until pre-season and the Packer boards are quiet.

 

25 pages on the Bucks offseason thread and we are on 7 here. My how things have changed in a just a couple of years.

 

Early camp reports seem to indicate D is ahead of the offense, not very surprising. Glad to see both King and Gary practicing out of the chute, King in particular really needs to stay healthy. Really pretty good health across the board. Signed a running back yesterday Corey Grant who backed up in JAx for a few years, fast guy who probably has a good chance to stick.

 

The Bucks thread is basically three guys arguing with each other.

[OnTheBlack]

 

Plus if Cobb were on the team, he'd be Rodgers' security blanket. Getting rid of him (and Nelson last year) forces Rodgers to depend on the young up-and-comers instead of giving those guys the cold shoulder in favor of the guys he trusts more or is more familiar with. You saw it last year as his trust in Valdes-Scantling improved, he began looking his way more. Valdes-Scantling likely wouldn't have had much playing time at all if Nelson were back and Cobb and Allison weren't hurt last year. Now he's a prime break-out candidate, and could turn out to be the game-breaker type this team has been searching for for years.

 

 

That's a Rodgers problem. I agree that he'd likely do that and I think St. Brown and MVS particularly are really enticing talents, but I think people are undervaluing Cobb a bit. He's a good slot receiver who got paid like a #1 WR'er. I think it can be hard to separate his current value with his previous value. When he was overpaid and the offense was reliant upon him vs now when he'd be relatively cheap and just AN option in the slot.

 

But he's also broken down. After his big break out season he's averaged just 620 yards per year, 4 TD's, and 60 catchers per year. So I don't really think it's that big of a deal, but I'd rather have Cobb right now for cheap than not have him in the same way I'd rather have Daniels. But I don't think either are game changers.

 

Jordy was just done though. That's a different situation. He lost that extra gear he had. Cobb still had it when healthy.

 

But I don't like the logic. That they had to get rid of those guys because Rodgers wouldn't throw it to the young guys. Again, I agree with it, but Rodgers needs to change some things. His time is running short and he's on the verge of having a bit of a stained legacy. Someone with his talent in today's NFL at that position has to win more than one.

[OnTheBlack]

Hmmm... 2-1/2 weeks until pre-season and the Packer boards are quiet.

 

25 pages on the Bucks offseason thread and we are on 7 here. My how things have changed in a just a couple of years.

 

Early camp reports seem to indicate D is ahead of the offense, not very surprising. Glad to see both King and Gary practicing out of the chute, King in particular really needs to stay healthy. Really pretty good health across the board. Signed a running back yesterday Corey Grant who backed up in JAx for a few years, fast guy who probably has a good chance to stick.

 

The Bucks thread is basically three guys arguing with each other.

 

 

Nuh-uh, no it's not!

 

 

Seriously though, didn't see they grabbed Grant. I guess I don't know that he is, but he seems like he'd be a really nice return man. You'd think they'd want 4 Backs on the roster. WilliamsX2, Jones and Grant. That'd likely mean Davis would be gone. Again, that's assuming he's a return man.

 

 

-And I just looked and see that he's returned punts. You can find anyone to return kickoffs.

[OnTheBlack]

Ooof, I can't disagree more on Cobb and Matthews. Buh bye. Nothing against them, but just time to turn things over. Cobb is productive when healthy, which he never is. Matthews is still disruptive at times, but just felt like he was never going to used as the supplementary player he is at this point. Every snap they are giving to those two guys while hoping against hope they don't hurt is a snap taken away from someone 10 years younger who needs to be on the field. But I wanted them both cut prior to last season.

 

I have my eyes on Jimmy Graham this year. He was much more productive than most people are giving him credit for. He didn't score, but neither did anybody else. That offense had so many problems it was really hard to single out anyone who didn't have a really good year. I think he's a shell of what he was and his hands were a little stoney at times, but I think he's a dark horse for being a contributor this year.

 

 

For 5 million you wouldn't have wanted to bring back Cobb? Sure, he's injury prone and he's not likely to ever have a 1300 yard season again, but that's a helluva value for Cobb. Wanting them gone when they were grossly overpaid is one thing, but wanting them gone just regardless makes little sense to me. Matthews, I wouldn't pay what the Rams paid, but I'd have tried to bring him back. He's also just 28 years old and only 3 years older than Allison, a guy who's been banged up 2 of the 3 seasons he'd played and who is not nearly as good of a fit in the slot as Cobb.

 

I mean, I love St. Brown and MVS, just their physical attributes, but Cobb was a proven slot receiver and he was probably one of the best bargain signings of the off-season and is a perfect fit in Dallas with that OL, Zeke and Cooper.

 

Matthews I just wanted back because of his versatility and again, not at the price the Rams paid. Not that it's too high, but too high for us for protection at multiple positions.

 

 

But, they're both gone now, as is Mike Daniels and the Packers are doing things differently. I suspect they'll find fewer guys who take hometown discounts, but that's fine. As long as they're aggressive in solving problems like they did on the edge and safety this past off-season.

 

No, I wouldn't. They plateaued long ago and I would rather see kids on the field. Adams plus the rest of the guys who have a couple seasons under the belt should be the crew now. Cobb misses time every year or plays badly banged up. He's a great guy, nice rapport with Rodgers on busted plays, but was the poster child for time to move on. Matthews is the same. They both might still be decent players but I'd rather someone else roll that dice.

 

Fair enough. I don't think either are major losses by any means.

 

But I'm also just not a big fan of Allison or Kumerow. Love MVS and Equanimeous. Both just great talents. And you gotta love that name. Equanimeous. You know he's gonna be calm and clutch in the big moments, right? I mean, it's not his middle name, it's literally his name. But I'm looking at him vs J'Mon Moore of Davis in terms of a roster spot. I get the argument that he'd take attention away from the young guys and stifle their growth. I guess my argument would be just to maintain that depth.

 

There is also that point with WR'ers where they're going and then just fall off a cliff. You saw it with Jordy last year and with Cobb's body, he's an old 28 in the NFL.

[OnTheBlack]

Again I have a minor issue with calling it cap related. Couldn't you say that any move is "cap related"? I don't think they want Daniels. $8m for ill-fitting DL is just not a wise thing to do. Yeah if he was making $600k they would probably keep him. But all of their DL can do multiple things. I don't think there was any chance he was getting extended beyond this season anyway. 31 y/o declining DL do not stick around very long.

 

Just because you keep a less talented player doesn't really mean it's a cap-related issue. A less talented 23 year old makes more sense to retain than a 31 y/o DL coming off injury.

 

 

Daniels was definitely not coming back after this year. But what is it that people think Lowry or the rest of the DL can do that Daniels can't?

 

This I don't get. He hasn't fallen off like Cobb. He had one down year, last year, and otherwise he's been healthy and durable and productive. I understand that it was 8 million probably better put towards future considerations and we have DL depth. But he was still their second best DL most likely. And unless you're talking about Gary, Za'Darius Smith, he can do pretty much whatever Dean Lowry or Adams can do.

 

I do think that Daniels is in a really-really good position to succeed this year next to Damon Harrison in a 4-3. I could see him topping his previous career high for sacks. Harrison is such a monster, teams will have to double him, particularly in the run game, and Daniels will be there to clean up.

[pacopete4]

Packers offensive line worries me. That’s where my focus will be early on.

[homer]

Wonder if they'd trade a receiver to the Giants?

[HiAndTight]

Packers offensive line worries me. That’s where my focus will be early on.

 

Isn't that just kinda a default worry though whenever you have a QB like Rodgers? I mean, on paper, we're pretty damn deep and talented. Best pass blocking tackle combo in the NFL including thee premiere pass blocking LT. Bulaga does get injured, but you now have Turner there along with a couple other guys in case Spriggs can't turn the corner. And you've got a lot of talent and a lot of bodies on the inside including a really solid center.

 

And picking a guard/center at #44, he should be ready to go right off the bat also. That's a lot of depth and quality depth.

[HiAndTight]

Wonder if they'd trade a receiver to the Giants?

 

 

I doubt it. Outside of Adams who the Packers are obviously not looking to move, MVS is the only other guy with any value I'd think at this point. Maybe Allison could get you a conditional 6th or 7th, but I don't know.

 

I'd love to see them ship out J'mon Moore for a conditional pick. I just don't ever see that guy being a reliable receiver. Guys who catch with their bodies and drop as many as he does when he actually uses his hands don't usually have much success.

[OnTheBlack]

Defensive coordinator Mike Pettine said as much in his Monday press conference, naming Adams as the player on his unit who has improved the most since this point a year ago. In fact, Pettine flat-out said that his “opinion of (Adams) wasn’t real high” when taking the DC job in 2018, but that Adams has improved tremendously, starting midway through last season.

 

Pretty typical training camp stories, but still, really nice to hear.

 

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/packers-training-camp-2019/2019/7/29/8935066/four-players-trending-up-packers-first-four-training-camp-practices-2019-adams-greene-tonyan-vitale#512572489

 

Tonyan also looks like he could be a potential difference maker.

[FVBrewerFan]

Again I have a minor issue with calling it cap related. Couldn't you say that any move is "cap related"? I don't think they want Daniels. $8m for ill-fitting DL is just not a wise thing to do. Yeah if he was making $600k they would probably keep him. But all of their DL can do multiple things. I don't think there was any chance he was getting extended beyond this season anyway. 31 y/o declining DL do not stick around very long.

 

Just because you keep a less talented player doesn't really mean it's a cap-related issue. A less talented 23 year old makes more sense to retain than a 31 y/o DL coming off injury.

 

 

Daniels was definitely not coming back after this year. But what is it that people think Lowry or the rest of the DL can do that Daniels can't?

 

This I don't get. He hasn't fallen off like Cobb. He had one down year, last year, and otherwise he's been healthy and durable and productive. I understand that it was 8 million probably better put towards future considerations and we have DL depth. But he was still their second best DL most likely. And unless you're talking about Gary, Za'Darius Smith, he can do pretty much whatever Dean Lowry or Adams can do.

 

I do think that Daniels is in a really-really good position to succeed this year next to Damon Harrison in a 4-3. I could see him topping his previous career high for sacks. Harrison is such a monster, teams will have to double him, particularly in the run game, and Daniels will be there to clean up.

 

First, of course it's cap related. If Daniels was making the vets minimum he wouldn't have been cut. What can Lowry and others do that Daniels can't? You got that question backwards, IMHO. What can Daniels do at $8MM that others can't? He is a run stuffer, period. There's still value in that in today's NFL, but not enough to justify $8MM for a few short yardage snaps every game.

[OldHeidelberg]

Sounds like LaFleur was not very happy with the offense in practice today, called them out for poor effort. Defense was again better, ZSmith beat Bakhtiari twice in one on ones. LaFleur also said Burks needs to be more consistent, that second ILB position is definitely a question mark.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Cobb hasn't had 700 yards in his last three years. Hasn't had 1,000 in his last four. He's topped 1,000 once, which is incredible for the reputation he has. What's more disturbing than that is his precipitous drop is YPC since his one really good season. He gets hurt too much, and how many games does he play per year on some kind of bad hamstring/ankle/whatever?

 

His age is also misleading since I believe he was drafted at age 20. There is a lot of mileage on those wheels. IMO he's going to be one of those guys with a couple preseason stories about how he "feels incredible" and "is in great shape" and is out of football in 2020.

[OnTheBlack]

 

First, of course it's cap related. If Daniels was making the vets minimum he wouldn't have been cut. What can Lowry and others do that Daniels can't? You got that question backwards, IMHO. What can Daniels do at $8MM that others can't? He is a run stuffer, period. There's still value in that in today's NFL, but not enough to justify $8MM for a few short yardage snaps every game.

 

No, I asked the question just how I wanted to. You keep suggesting this idea Daniels is more limited than the other Packers defensive linemen. Right here you're saying he's just a run stuff. That's not true. He's been a very effective pass rusher, particularly from as an interior pass rusher in this system almost his entire career. You're describing him as though he's a Vince Wolfork type in the very late stages of his career. That's just not the case. There's a reason he was signed immediately after he was let go by the Lions while other teams called about him.

 

We've got depth, we've got only so much money to spend and Kenny Clark due a massive payday in the near future. But there's no need to diminish the player Daniels was or is.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Again I have a minor issue with calling it cap related. Couldn't you say that any move is "cap related"? I don't think they want Daniels. $8m for ill-fitting DL is just not a wise thing to do. Yeah if he was making $600k they would probably keep him. But all of their DL can do multiple things. I don't think there was any chance he was getting extended beyond this season anyway. 31 y/o declining DL do not stick around very long.

 

Just because you keep a less talented player doesn't really mean it's a cap-related issue. A less talented 23 year old makes more sense to retain than a 31 y/o DL coming off injury.

 

 

Daniels was definitely not coming back after this year. But what is it that people think Lowry or the rest of the DL can do that Daniels can't?

 

This I don't get. He hasn't fallen off like Cobb. He had one down year, last year, and otherwise he's been healthy and durable and productive. I understand that it was 8 million probably better put towards future considerations and we have DL depth. But he was still their second best DL most likely. And unless you're talking about Gary, Za'Darius Smith, he can do pretty much whatever Dean Lowry or Adams can do.

 

I do think that Daniels is in a really-really good position to succeed this year next to Damon Harrison in a 4-3. I could see him topping his previous career high for sacks. Harrison is such a monster, teams will have to double him, particularly in the run game, and Daniels will be there to clean up.

 

First, of course it's cap related. If Daniels was making the vets minimum he wouldn't have been cut. What can Lowry and others do that Daniels can't? You got that question backwards, IMHO. What can Daniels do at $8MM that others can't? He is a run stuffer, period. There's still value in that in today's NFL, but not enough to justify $8MM for a few short yardage snaps every game.

 

This is what I meant though, it's a pretty comical standard for calling it "cap-related." When I hear the term cap-related, I think of someone you would REALLY prefer to keep, but have to let go, like a Marco Rivera/Mike Wahle situation, where the roster is a mess and you have to get money off the books. I don't think this was quite that. I think they had an old regime guy who is a 1-D player. Dean Lowry is five years younger, 6 inches taller, and a versatile player who's improved every season.

 

Of course, if he made the vet minimum, they'd keep him. But he just doesn't provide much in the defense they're running and they would be paying a lot of money for a strictly situational lineman.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think when Tom Silverstein essentially predicts that he's going to be traded in April and then he gets cut in July, there's very likely merit to the reasons he laid out for doing so. He really wasn't a part of their plans.

 

I also haven't seen anyone diminish the player he was, but he is now 30 and in an entirely new scheme not suited to his skills. This really wasn't a shocking move.

[OnTheBlack]

I think when Tom Silverstein essentially predicts that he's going to be traded in April and then he gets cut in July, there's very likely merit to the reasons he laid out for doing so. He really wasn't a part of their plans.

 

I also haven't seen anyone diminish the player he was, but he is now 30 and in an entirely new scheme not suited to his skills. This really wasn't a shocking move.

 

I never said or suggested it was shocking. Daniels is an all purpose 3 technique who's played a 5 and over the center throughout his career. He's been a good pass rusher and a good run defender. How does that not fit schematically with Pettine? I understand they have younger players they need to play. Saying-"He is a run stuffer, period. There's still value in that in today's NFL, but not enough to justify $8MM for a few short yardage snaps every game." That's just not an accurate description of him as a player and diminished who he is and what he's done.

[OnTheBlack]

Sounds like LaFleur was not very happy with the offense in practice today, called them out for poor effort. Defense was again better, ZSmith beat Bakhtiari twice in one on ones. LaFleur also said Burks needs to be more consistent, that second ILB position is definitely a question mark.

 

If the two Smiths don't get better, but just replicate their production from last year, this defense is going to be so much better.

 

As for Burks, he's a converted safety. They can't be too surprised he's lagging behind. I'd imagine they're looking around at possible veteran cuts.

[FVBrewerFan]

 

First, of course it's cap related. If Daniels was making the vets minimum he wouldn't have been cut. What can Lowry and others do that Daniels can't? You got that question backwards, IMHO. What can Daniels do at $8MM that others can't? He is a run stuffer, period. There's still value in that in today's NFL, but not enough to justify $8MM for a few short yardage snaps every game.

 

No, I asked the question just how I wanted to. You keep suggesting this idea Daniels is more limited than the other Packers defensive linemen. Right here you're saying he's just a run stuff. That's not true. He's been a very effective pass rusher, particularly from as an interior pass rusher in this system almost his entire career. You're describing him as though he's a Vince Wolfork type in the very late stages of his career. That's just not the case. There's a reason he was signed immediately after he was let go by the Lions while other teams called about him.

 

We've got depth, we've got only so much money to spend and Kenny Clark due a massive payday in the near future. But there's no need to diminish the player Daniels was or is.

 

Yea, you were right to call me on that. I overstated Daniels limitations, he can give you some pass rush. I think they just want more athletic guys on the line. That and the $8MM added up to his release.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

6'6

6'3

6'4

6'3

6'4

6'5

6'3

6'5

6'3

6'3

 

Those are all guys that play front seven for the Packers. Martinez is 6'2 and the smallest. Most of them play up or down. Daniels is very clearly the odd man out compared to the rest of the group. He can pass rush, he was a very good player. But he clearly doesn't fit what Pettine likes.