Extending Moose

[rickh150]

Not sure if he's open to an extension, but Moose has been a spark to this team, not only last September but also this April. I wonder if he'd consider a two year extension at 12 or 13 million a year.

Reasons...

1. He obviously enjoys the group, can see the core is together for a while yet, and knows the team should be very competitive, at least.

2. He also has not been treated kindly, comparatively, on the FA market the past two winters. He might be open to a shorter deal here (and now).

3. Moose could play at 1B, 2B, or 3B for the near future, giving the team flexibility to trade for need, along with insurance if Hiura, Aguilar, and/or Shaw struggle.

4. With Grandal probably moving on next year, along with Thames option probably not being picked up, another power lefty bat should be affordable.

 

Maybe he doesn't want to even talk extension and maybe the Brewers feel covered in the infield with Hiura (and Dubon) coming up. Yet, he has been a winning ingredient with the team, and the idea of not having him with Yelich and Cain next year is not ideal in my mind.

[HiAndTight]

Not sure if he's open to an extension, but Moose has been a spark to this team, not only last September but also this April. I wonder if he'd consider a two year extension at 12 or 13 million a year.

Reasons...

1. He obviously enjoys the group, can see the core is together for a while yet, and knows the team should be very competitive, at least.

2. He also has not been treated kindly, comparatively, on the FA market the past two winters. He might be open to a shorter deal here (and now).

3. Moose could play at 1B, 2B, or 3B for the near future, giving the team flexibility to trade for need, along with insurance if Hiura, Aguilar, and/or Shaw struggle.

4. With Grandal probably moving on next year, along with Thames option probably not being picked up, another power lefty bat should be affordable.

 

Maybe he doesn't want to even talk extension and maybe the Brewers feel covered in the infield with Hiura (and Dubon) coming up. Yet, he has been a winning ingredient with the team, and the idea of not having him with Yelich and Cain next year is not ideal in my mind.

 

 

I really hope not. I'm sure if the Brewers wanted to offer a multi year deal, given what he's been through the last couple years, he'd jump on it, but he's a very bad defensive 2nd basemen and he's not a great hitter. He's a ~.300 OBP type guy who hits for a low avg and some power.

 

I don't think he was or is a magic bullet for us. He's just another guy and with Hirura hitting .330 with a OPS over 1.000 in AAA, I can't imagine the Brewers being interested in multiple years of Moose.

[JohnBriggs12]

He does have an $11 million mutual option for 2020. Given his experience the last two years, both sides might be able to agree on that. But room has to be made for a consensus top 20 prospect who's tearing up AAA in the lineup.

[pacopete4]

No thanks. We have Shaw to play at 3B and there’s no reason Hiura shouldn’t be the 2B next season.

[adambr2]

Yeah I see no real need to do this.

 

Moose is just a guy. Good at some things, not so much at others. Glad to have him this year, but not someone I'd be interested in tying up 8 figures a year for a multi year deal when he's not even a big positional need.

[adambr2]

I also would not assume that Thames will not have his option picked up especially if Aguilar does not get it going at some point.

 

If he is closer to his 2017 numbers (31 HR, .877 OPS) than last year when he was hurt much of the year, Thames will and should have his 2020 option picked up.

[MrTPlush]

No, spend it on pitching...like we should have in the first place it seems.

 

Also why would we extend a guy in April who for the last two winters has had to settle for one year deals? Wait till the offseason and see where we are at as an organization.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I like Moose. He seems like a Brewers type guy, but he just doesn't fit. Hiura is gonna be here sooner rather than later, and there's just too many other pieces that play the corners.

[HiAndTight]

I also would not assume that Thames will not have his option picked up especially if Aguilar does not get it going at some point.

 

If he is closer to his 2017 numbers (31 HR, .877 OPS) than last year when he was hurt much of the year, Thames will and should have his 2020 option picked up.

 

 

Wait a second, I remember you just bashing Segura because he was great early and then struggled as a young player, yet with Thames you ignore the fact that he got off to a ridiculously hot start for the Brewers and use his full-season numbers, dismiss last years numbers and advocate picking up his extension when? Doesn't seem consistent.

[wntrtxn21]

No thanks. We have Shaw to play at 3B and there’s no reason Hiura shouldn’t be the 2B next season.

 

An extension to Moose I think means they will move Shaw to 1B and let Thames go. Try to trade Aguilar.

[wntrtxn21]

I also would not assume that Thames will not have his option picked up especially if Aguilar does not get it going at some point.

 

If he is closer to his 2017 numbers (31 HR, .877 OPS) than last year when he was hurt much of the year, Thames will and should have his 2020 option picked up.

 

 

Wait a second, I remember you just bashing Segura because he was great early and then struggled as a young player, yet with Thames you ignore the fact that he got off to a ridiculously hot start for the Brewers and use his full-season numbers, dismiss last years numbers and advocate picking up his extension when? Doesn't seem consistent.

 

Thames is going to be 33 in Nov. He is in his 5th year in the majors and spent 6 years in Japan. He is an all-or-nothing type hitter who whiffs 35-40% of the time. Not a great fielder. Segura was a young guy just getting started.

[adambr2]

I also would not assume that Thames will not have his option picked up especially if Aguilar does not get it going at some point.

 

If he is closer to his 2017 numbers (31 HR, .877 OPS) than last year when he was hurt much of the year, Thames will and should have his 2020 option picked up.

 

 

Wait a second, I remember you just bashing Segura because he was great early and then struggled as a young player, yet with Thames you ignore the fact that he got off to a ridiculously hot start for the Brewers and use his full-season numbers, dismiss last years numbers and advocate picking up his extension when? Doesn't seem consistent.

 

1) I have no idea what you're talking about. It's been 4 years since Segura was a Brewer. I won't say I never said that, because I don't know, and Segura was pretty bad his last 2 seasons here. But even if I did, opinions and perspectives do evolve and change over time.

 

2) If I criticized Segura for his performance those 2 seasons, that has zero to do with Thames. That comparison makes no sense. That's like saying you can't support picking up Thames' option if you criticize Arcia.

 

3) I didn't dismiss his 2018. He wasn't very good. I said he was hurt much of the year,

which he was. I said IF he has a season closer to 2017 they should pick his option up. Which IF that happens they likely should, as they don't have a suitable replacement in the pipeline and they likely won't find a 31 HR/.877 OPS first baseman available for 1 year/7.5M on the open market.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Could Moose play 1b?

[coolhandluke121]

No way. Don't extend Shaw either. They're decent players but far from elite. Who knows how many good years they have left? With the PED testing reform, prime age is back to being 27 or 28, and not many players avoid some decline in their early 30's. Even former borderline all-stars candidates like Moose and Shaw sometimes become unplayable in their early 30's. They weren't that good to begin with and this seems like an overreaction to a hot April.

[TURBO]

Could Moose play 1b?

 

THAT is the question I would ask as well.

 

Dump jesus and Thames, play Shaw at 3B, Arcia at SS, Hiura at 2B, and Moose at 1B if that is at all a possibility. Or Moose stays at 3B and Shaw moves to 1B, which ever makes us better.

[adambr2]

Could Moose play 1b?

 

THAT is the question I would ask as well.

 

Dump jesus and Thames, play Shaw at 3B, Arcia at SS, Hiura at 2B, and Moose at 1B if that is at all a possibility. Or Moose stays at 3B and Shaw moves to 1B, which ever makes us better.

 

Dump Thames? Just like DFA him?

 

He's the 2nd best hitter on the team so far this year, he hits for power, and his salary is already on the books for 2019. Why would we do that?

[rickh150]

I wouldn't give up on Aguilar. He is lost now, but he will get chances.

[TURBO]

Could Moose play 1b?

 

THAT is the question I would ask as well.

 

Dump jesus and Thames, play Shaw at 3B, Arcia at SS, Hiura at 2B, and Moose at 1B if that is at all a possibility. Or Moose stays at 3B and Shaw moves to 1B, which ever makes us better.

 

Dump Thames? Just like DFA him?

 

He's the 2nd best hitter on the team so far this year, he hits for power, and his salary is already on the books for 2019. Why would we do that?

 

I meant next year. Not this year.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Isn't Thames option for next year like 7.5 million? Why not just exercise that? Thames takes a lot of walks, and even when not hitting, usually carries a decent OBP. I guess I just see Thames upside as slightly higher than Moose's, if all we're going to do is put Moose at 1B.

[adambr2]

Isn't Thames option for next year like 7.5 million? Why not just exercise that? Thames takes a lot of walks, and even when not hitting, usually carries a decent OBP. I guess I just see Thames upside as slightly higher than Moose's, if all we're going to do is put Moose at 1B.

 

Exactly. Do people realize Thames actually had a higher OPS than Moose last year, even though it seems widely believed that Moose was good and Thames was garbage in 2018?

 

I am not saying Thames is anything special, but I can't for the life of me understand why people want to kick Thames to the curb and in the same argument want to give Moose a multi-year extension.

[OnTheBlack]

Isn't Thames option for next year like 7.5 million? Why not just exercise that? Thames takes a lot of walks, and even when not hitting, usually carries a decent OBP. I guess I just see Thames upside as slightly higher than Moose's, if all we're going to do is put Moose at 1B.

 

Exactly. Do people realize Thames actually had a higher OPS than Moose last year, even though it seems widely believed that Moose was good and Thames was garbage in 2018?

 

I am not saying Thames is anything special, but I can't for the life of me understand why people want to kick Thames to the curb and in the same argument want to give Moose a multi-year extension.

 

 

I feel like that's a lot more on Moose being overrated than anything to do with Thames.

[wntrtxn21]

Isn't Thames option for next year like 7.5 million? Why not just exercise that? Thames takes a lot of walks, and even when not hitting, usually carries a decent OBP. I guess I just see Thames upside as slightly higher than Moose's, if all we're going to do is put Moose at 1B.

 

Exactly. Do people realize Thames actually had a higher OPS than Moose last year, even though it seems widely believed that Moose was good and Thames was garbage in 2018?

 

I am not saying Thames is anything special, but I can't for the life of me understand why people want to kick Thames to the curb and in the same argument want to give Moose a multi-year extension.

 

Thames' problem always has been the whiffs. That's what everybody sees and remembers. He never tries to just make contact. It's always the HR swing no matter what the count or situation. Ks come at an alarming rate. Last year he got on a strikeout binge (July/ 26 Ks/ 65 ABs/8 RBIs -- Aug/ 25 Ks/41 ABs/5 RBIs -- Sept/ 9 Ks/18 ABs/0 RBI) and never recovered. He didn't drive in a run from Aug 15th until the end of the season. Just like every other hitting stat, OPS is over used and not always indicative of the hitter. Moose is a better all around hitter who plays very good D at a tough position - 3B (awful at 2B).

[OnTheBlack]

 

Thames' problem always has been the whiffs. That's what everybody sees and remembers. He never tries to just make contact. It's always the HR swing no matter what the count or situation. Ks come at an alarming rate. Last year he got on a strikeout binge (July/ 26 Ks/ 65 ABs/8 RBIs -- Aug/ 25 Ks/41 ABs/5 RBIs -- Sept/ 9 Ks/18 ABs/0 RBI) and never recovered. He didn't drive in a run from Aug 15th until the end of the season. Just like every other hitting stat, OPS is over used and not always indicative of the hitter. Moose is a better all around hitter who plays very good D at a tough position - 3B (awful at 2B).

 

 

I don't know if anything is more frustrating that watching Aguilar right now. He seems to be pressing way too much, trying to hit for power when he doesn't need to try. I completely believe Aguilar was the player he showed last year, but the Brewers can only wait so long. If Aguilar gets it figured out, Thames situation becomes pretty obvious to me. Good year, trade him for whatever, bad year, decline. If Aggie doesn't and Thames has these stretches like he had in 2017, I guess you have to bring him back. You can't go in with only one option...unless you sign a corner OF or you get a lot more out of Ray or Taylor than I believe you'll get.

 

No matter what, I don't see any need to extend Moose. I get he's liked and he is a very competent 3rd basemen when the Brewers went a while without one, but they've got one now who's a very similar player, but with a significantly higher OBP historically.

[wntrtxn21]

 

Thames' problem always has been the whiffs. That's what everybody sees and remembers. He never tries to just make contact. It's always the HR swing no matter what the count or situation. Ks come at an alarming rate. Last year he got on a strikeout binge (July/ 26 Ks/ 65 ABs/8 RBIs -- Aug/ 25 Ks/41 ABs/5 RBIs -- Sept/ 9 Ks/18 ABs/0 RBI) and never recovered. He didn't drive in a run from Aug 15th until the end of the season. Just like every other hitting stat, OPS is over used and not always indicative of the hitter. Moose is a better all around hitter who plays very good D at a tough position - 3B (awful at 2B).

 

I don't know if anything is more frustrating that watching Aguilar right now. He seems to be pressing way too much, trying to hit for power when he doesn't need to try. I completely believe Aguilar was the player he showed last year, but the Brewers can only wait so long. If Aguilar gets it figured out, Thames situation becomes pretty obvious to me. Good year, trade him for whatever, bad year, decline. If Aggie doesn't and Thames has these stretches like he had in 2017, I guess you have to bring him back. You can't go in with only one option...unless you sign a corner OF or you get a lot more out of Ray or Taylor than I believe you'll get.

 

No matter what, I don't see any need to extend Moose. I get he's liked and he is a very competent 3rd basemen when the Brewers went a while without one, but they've got one now who's a very similar player, but with a significantly higher OBP historically.

 

The Aguilar situation is a lot like the Thames situation last year. Hopelessly lost at the plate and CC is unable to send him down to work on his swing and timing. I think Stearns' backup plan at 1B next year is Shaw if both Thames and Aguilar don't work out. He'll re-sign Moose and put Shaw at 1B possibly using Braun as the RH against lefties.

[OnTheBlack]

 

The Aguilar situation is a lot like the Thames situation last year. Hopelessly lost at the plate and CC is unable to send him down to work on his swing and timing. I think Stearns' backup plan at 1B next year is Shaw if both Thames and Aguilar don't work out. He'll re-sign Moose and put Shaw at 1B possibly using Braun as the RH against lefties.

 

 

He's lost at the plate, but I don't think it's anything like Thames from last year. His strikeouts are DOWN. It's rare that a guy like him is making more contact and struggling this badly.

 

Without looking, I would just assume his exit velocity is way down, he's popping a lot more balls up or rolling over a lot more balls. His BABIP is .167, so he's probably better than his stats suggest, but I wouldn't expect him to have a high BABIP with how he's been hitting the ball.

 

And this is the most confounding thing to me. He's got such a simple, smooth stroke, he can shorten up and still hit for power...he just doesn't seem like a guy who when he's staying within himself and not trying to hit everything out, would go through these sustained slumps.

 

 

 

I'm gonna predict from May-End of the year he hits .280 with a OPS in the upper .800's. I just think he's too talented as a hitter to be this bad. I know I'm in the vast minority here. I just hope he's given time though...