Milwaukee Bucks 2019 playoffs Rd 2 vs Boston Celtics

[OnTheBlack]

Is there any reason to think the Bucks won't win the next series in 5-6 games at most?

 

If it's Toronto I'll go Bucks in 6 again. If it's the Sixers...that could swing more one way or the other. Emid is just so hot and cold. He's clearly not playing in great shape relative to most star players. Not sure what's going on with him that he's been sick twice with a healthy dominant game thrown in there.

 

 

 

Another question, does anyone believe that Durant really has a pulled calf? That didn't look like a pulled calf muscle to me. You don't usually pull a calf muscle jogging back. I'd be very surprised if that doesn't end up being the very injury they were speculating during the game. As an NBA fan, I hope he's alright. As a Bucks fan...I hope it's a really badly pulled calf.

[Mr Southpaw]

Pat Connaughton is 6'4. How is he getting all these double digit rebound games?

 

Someone taught him how to rebound at a young age. It is not all about jumping, but he does that really well. Positioning on the other side of the basket from where the ball is shot and boxing out are a couple of things that make good rebounder. Ersan also does a great job rebounding. Plus it is one of those things you just should have pride in doing. Malcom is also a pretty good rebounder and he can hardly elevate. Sidney Moncrief was the best rebounder the Bucks ever had,,,, my favorite Buck ever.

[pacopete4]

It's nice to see that they are taking care of opponents that they should. All season long they showed dominance, especially in the Eastern Conference. No reason this team shouldn't make the finals.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Did you say Malcolm Brogdon can't elevate? That dude has had some nasty nasty highlight-reel dunks. I mean, he doesn't have 44-inch vertical, but he can get off the floor and throw it down.

 

On another note, I really find it interesting that the entire narrative here is about how the Celtics underperformed. I don't mean here as in brewerfan, but here as in this series and this season. The Celtics just lost a series to a team that went 60 and 22, and I'm not sure why anyone at all should be surprised by that.

 

I don't normally get upset by the national media ignoring or dissing the teams that I pay attention to, but the narrative around this series doesn't bother me so much as it's just really baffling. The Bucks are a better team. They showed it over 82 games. They definitely showed it over the last four games. The fact that anybody is still surprised over this outcome is just surprising to me.

[coolhandluke121]

I don't think Brogdon has been as athletic since his injury last year but yeah, he does have a decent vertical. He's slower off the ground than Pat C though.

 

Toronto is really, really good. They have been easily the 2nd-best team in the East all year, and probably 2nd-best in the NBA (but only because GSW doesn't care about the regular season much). Despite what all the major media markets and Kyrie/Tatum/Simmons/Embiid hype men keep trying to tell everyone, Toronto has flat out proven to be better in everything except jersey sales. We can't simultaneously be annoyed at how much the Bucks are overlooked by certain parties because of market size and "star power" and fail to notice that the exact same thing is happening to the Raptors. Yeah, they have looked bad a few times in the 2nd round, but so did the Bucks, and in the end what happened is exactly what anyone who watched the Bucks all year and knew how good they were said would happen.

 

I'm going Bucks in 7. I think Toronto earns 2 games and the Bucks have one of their mysterious total duds at some point.

 

Also, Kawhi is better than Durant. Not a hot take.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Pat Connaughton is 6'4. How is he getting all these double digit rebound games?

 

Someone taught him how to rebound at a young age. It is not all about jumping, but he does that really well. Positioning on the other side of the basket from where the ball is shot and boxing out are a couple of things that make good rebounder. Ersan also does a great job rebounding. Plus it is one of those things you just should have pride in doing. Malcom is also a pretty good rebounder and he can hardly elevate. Sidney Moncrief was the best rebounder the Bucks ever had,,,, my favorite Buck ever.

 

Pat Connaughton posted a 44" max vertical at his NBA predraft combine...so while what you say is true about rebounding positioning and desire to just get the ball, Pat also has plenty of athleticism to play much taller than 6'4" in the paint.

[homer]

I'm not 100% on this but I think the Bucks analytics team figures out where most misses go based on where the shot starts. So if you shoot a free throw line extended three point shot it tends to miss towards the elbow on the opposite side. Stuff like that might play into it as well particular for a guard who's going to be on the perimeter. But mostly it's probably good instincts and technique.

[FVBrewerFan]

Lopez and Sova do a great job boxing out their own man so others can get the rebound. That's not the whole reason, of course, but part of it . Takes good timing too, all that comes into play. Most of all, you have to want to rebound, its effort.

 

Edit- With all the 3pt shooting in recent years, more long rebounds for the guards that want them.

[Mr Southpaw]

Pat Connaughton is 6'4. How is he getting all these double digit rebound games?

 

Someone taught him how to rebound at a young age. It is not all about jumping, but he does that really well. Positioning on the other side of the basket from where the ball is shot and boxing out are a couple of things that make good rebounder. Ersan also does a great job rebounding. Plus it is one of those things you just should have pride in doing. Malcom is also a pretty good rebounder and he can hardly elevate. Sidney Moncrief was the best rebounder the Bucks ever had,,,, my favorite Buck ever.

 

Pat Connaughton posted a 44" max vertical at his NBA predraft combine...so while what you say is true about rebounding positioning and desire to just get the ball, Pat also has plenty of athleticism to play much taller than 6'4" in the paint.

 

I said he does that really well, meaning he jumps really well (see bold above), and he positions himself really well, and he boxes out really well and he has the desire to do all the little things it takes to be a great basketball player, and that he was taught well at a young age really well. He reminds me of a better version of Kerr when he was on the Bulls. Meaning one of those players you know will be a great coach. I would extend him immediately after the season.

[adambr2]

Since we're on that topic, rank the following in order of priority for bringing back next year:

 

Middleton

Brogdon

Hill

Mirotic

Lopez

 

I've got Middleton and Brogdon as 1A and 1B. Then Hill. I'll go Lopez, then Mirotic, I'd like to realistically get 1 of 2. Connaughton is fortunately already under contract for one more year.

[LouisEly]

I'm not 100% on this but I think the Bucks analytics team figures out where most misses go based on where the shot starts. So if you shoot a free throw line extended three point shot it tends to miss towards the elbow on the opposite side. Stuff like that might play into it as well particular for a guard who's going to be on the perimeter. But mostly it's probably good instincts and technique.

Dennis Rodman said that 20 years ago. Rebounds tend to come to the opposite side of the shot at an angle equal to the angle to the basket. I.e., a shot from the baseline tends to rebound towards the baseline of the other side, a shot from the wing tends to rebound toward the wing on the other side, etc.

[RollieTime]

Since we're on that topic, rank the following in order of priority for bringing back next year:

 

Middleton

Brogdon

Hill

Mirotic

Lopez

 

I've got Middleton and Brogdon as 1A and 1B. Then Hill. I'll go Lopez, then Mirotic, I'd like to realistically get 1 of 2. Connaughton is fortunately already under contract for one more year.

 

Brogdon- Number one in my eyes and it’s not that close.

Lopez- 7 footer that protects the rim and can hit threes is a must have with Giannis on the team. He fits Bud’s scheme perfectly.

Middleton

Hill

Mirotic

 

I would be very pleased if they retained all 4 excluding Middleton. Brogdon has more to offer offensively if given the opportunity and I don’t think the loss of Middleton would be much of a loss on the offensive end of the floor as I think Bledsoe, Brogdon, Hill, Mirotic, and DiVincenzo are enough to overcome the loss of Middleton.

[coolhandluke121]

Hill is the most important for wins and losses even if you don't think he's the best player. They have great wing depth and could much more easily replace Brogdon or Middleton. Also, Hill's defense is elite, whereas Brogdon and Khris are just decent, and we saw how valuable that was against Kyrie. But it's mainly about PG depth, and you need Hill for those games where Bledsoe gets weird too.

 

As long as you keep one of Brogdon or Khris, I think you're okay on the wing with Brown, Snell, Pat C, and DDV. And as long as you keep Mirotic or Lopez, you have another big who is a good fit with Giannis, to go with Ersan and eventually Wilson. But the PG spot could completely undermine them without Hill. Plus he could be putting up better numbers, and does when the team needs him too, so it's not like Khris and Brogdom are that much better than him at scoring even if the raw numbers suggest they are.

 

The real question is not who they prioritize but how much tax they will pay though.

[OnTheBlack]

Lopez and Sova do a great job boxing out their own man so others can get the rebound. That's not the whole reason, of course, but part of it . Takes good timing too, all that comes into play. Most of all, you have to want to rebound, its effort.

 

Edit- With all the 3pt shooting in recent years, more long rebounds for the guards that want them.

 

 

With regard to Lopez, I can't site the source, I don't recall where I saw it, but it was something about how while Lopez has been regarded as a poor rebounder during his career, his team rebounds much better while he's on the court. That was from a few months ago, so I wouldn't even know where to start looking for it, but you can see how active he is.

[OnTheBlack]

Since we're on that topic, rank the following in order of priority for bringing back next year:

 

Middleton

Brogdon

Hill

Mirotic

Lopez

 

I've got Middleton and Brogdon as 1A and 1B. Then Hill. I'll go Lopez, then Mirotic, I'd like to realistically get 1 of 2. Connaughton is fortunately already under contract for one more year.

 

I think Middleton is far more important to the Bucks future. I'm pretty confident Giannis is going re-sign, but the only reason he'd have for not re-signing would be if the Bucks lost their 2nd best player. As great as this season is, I'd like to see a longer sustained run and for that I think it goes Middleton, Brogdon, Mirotic, Lopez and Hill.

 

Hill's been great in the post-season, but they're still not likely to spend 60 million on a backup 33 year old PG. We can pretend finances aren't important, but there is a cumulative impact. Giannis will be making 45 million hopefully, so the Bucks already know they're going to be in the tax for years. How far they're willing to go is the only question.

[Boomer5]

This is the best coached team I’ve ever seen. Budz was a hire we all wanted too. Glad we finally got one right.

[OnTheBlack]

 

I said he does that really well, meaning he jumps really well (see bold above), and he positions himself really well, and he boxes out really well and he has the desire to do all the little things it takes to be a great basketball player, and that he was taught well at a young age really well. He reminds me of a better version of Kerr when he was on the Bulls. Meaning one of those players you know will be a great coach. I would extend him immediately after the season.

 

 

He's definitely a glue player, but at what price do you extend him this off-season? At this point in the playoffs, it feels like you'd be paying him at his highest possible value and you still have him for a year. I'm not saying he's Delladova, he's more explosive athlete,(though almost the exact same size) but we paid Delladova for many of the same reasons we'd be paying Connaughton. Because he's been a spark plug and showed up in the post-season.

 

If he will sign on for ~4-5 million per year over a 3-4 year period, that'd be fine. If he wants more than that, if he wants 8-10, I'd let him play out next season and then just see where we are.

 

Kerr was a completely different type of player. If he played in the NBA today, he'd be a better version of Redick, but he had a bad knee injury early in his career that took away a lot of his athletic ability given it was back in the 80's. He shot 45 pct from 3 including a few seasons in which he hit 50 pct. He'd be a great fit on this team, but I don't think he's very similar to Connaughton.

[BMuch25]

Hypothetically, could the Bucks do a sign and trade max offer to Middleton for a similar deal for Clay Thompson?

[OnTheBlack]

Brogdon: 10 points, 4 assists, 3 boards in 17 minutes. Perfect line for a first game back. Good to have him again.

 

More than I expected from MB after the amount of time he missed. Really nice game and he really got back into the rotation smoothly.

 

 

 

They were saying before the broadcast how conservative Bud is with regard to injuries. I'd imagine if Brogdon were on the Celtics and Smart on the Bucks, there's next to no chance we'd have seen Smart in this series and a good chance Brogdon would have played in game 1.

 

They also mentioned how Bud kept Snell out for an extra couple weeks to make sure he was healthy. It's probably helped keep this team healthy and humming along all year with Giannis getting some rest and probably averaging about 15 minutes less per game than he'd like if it were up to him.

[OnTheBlack]

Hypothetically, could the Bucks do a sign and trade max offer to Middleton for a similar deal for Clay Thompson?

 

 

I think they could...but given that both are UFA's, and that Klay is going to be coveted by both LA teams and probably every other team that can offer him the max, I don't think it's likely that he'll go from the GSW's to Milwaukee. As much as I like Middleton, I'd definitely take Thompson over him in that scenario.

 

I suppose it's possible that Klay could want to come to Milwaukee and be a bigger part of a winning team and I think he could slide into Middleton's role pretty easily and we'd probably be better on both ends of the court provided he's healthy. But I just don't really see a scenario in which that plays out. Maybe if Durant re-signs in Golden State and he wants a bigger role than he currently has. It's not hard to picture him putting up 25 PPG playing in Milwaukee given what a great shooter he is. Over 40 pct from 3 every year of his career....

 

Thompson would have to be dead set on coming to Milwaukee and he'd have to find a way to force this to happen. And that's assuming he can sign with another team and then be traded right away and it's allowed by the CBA.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I don't see any way that Thompson would be pointing at Milwaukee and saying "that's where I want/need to be". I also don't know if you can sign and trade and go into the luxury tax like that. Not sure on that, I'm really not sure on the specifics, just thinking out loud.

 

I just think Middleton, streakiness and all is a more all around player. Thompson could average 25 ppg, but do the Bucks need that? They lead the league in scoring this year, so do they need to go through a sign and trade to get a guy who doesn't really rebound or do a lot of anything else to get a few more ppg that honestly, the Bucks probably don't have available either?

[FVBrewerFan]

Hill is the most important for wins and losses even if you don't think he's the best player. They have great wing depth and could much more easily replace Brogdon or Middleton. Also, Hill's defense is elite, whereas Brogdon and Khris are just decent, and we saw how valuable that was against Kyrie. But it's mainly about PG depth, and you need Hill for those games where Bledsoe gets weird too.

 

As long as you keep one of Brogdon or Khris, I think you're okay on the wing with Brown, Snell, Pat C, and DDV. And as long as you keep Mirotic or Lopez, you have another big who is a good fit with Giannis, to go with Ersan and eventually Wilson. But the PG spot could completely undermine them without Hill. Plus he could be putting up better numbers, and does when the team needs him too, so it's not like Khris and Brogdom are that much better than him at scoring even if the raw numbers suggest they are.

 

The real question is not who they prioritize but how much tax they will pay though.

 

I feel they'll sign Middleton and go over the cap, especially the way he's played in the postseason. Brogdon and Hill, honestly no idea. Brogdon is restricted but will get sone hefty offers. Tough call on those guys. Divo, Patty C, maybe Brown are nice players but not on Hill or Brogdons level.

 

Loosing Lopez would scare me almost as much as Middleton. People just don't understand how he anchors the defense. Bud does, talks about it all the time. I fear in a shooters league, some team may give him a huge offer. Everyone wants a guy like this at the 5, and now that teams saw how the Bucks used him his value went way up. And with no money to spend in FA, who are they going to get to replace him?

 

Could they restrucure Giannis with a new contract and move some money back a couple years? No idea how that all works, Giannis just seems like a guy who would be open to it if it meant keeping the band together.

[OnTheBlack]

I don't see any way that Thompson would be pointing at Milwaukee and saying "that's where I want/need to be". I also don't know if you can sign and trade and go into the luxury tax like that. Not sure on that, I'm really not sure on the specifics, just thinking out loud.

 

I just think Middleton, streakiness and all is a more all around player. Thompson could average 25 ppg, but do the Bucks need that? They lead the league in scoring this year, so do they need to go through a sign and trade to get a guy who doesn't really rebound or do a lot of anything else to get a few more ppg that honestly, the Bucks probably don't have available either?

 

 

I don't think Thompson would require more shots, but just a better shooter. So I don't really think there's a problem from that angle. I agree with you that he's unlikely to pick Milwaukee out and say that's where he wants to go given all the options that'll be available to him(I'm also not certain that you CAN make that trade). As for "needing" more PPG, we haven't actually won anything yet. It's not like he's the missing piece, but I don't think the Bucks are diminished by having him.

 

I don't think the differences in the other area's are that big. Klay's a capable defender and can rebound as well. He's just not asked to all that much in Golden State.

 

But all this is a moot point. I can't say with absolute certainty this won't happen...but I really don't see this happening anyway. Plus...Klay is 2 years older and has a lot more miles on him than Middleton. Middleton has a great temperament to play as a #2 behind Giannis. I'd just like to see this core together for a few years. Especially with Golden State breaking up next year most likely.

[OnTheBlack]

Hill is the most important for wins and losses even if you don't think he's the best player. They have great wing depth and could much more easily replace Brogdon or Middleton. Also, Hill's defense is elite, whereas Brogdon and Khris are just decent, and we saw how valuable that was against Kyrie. But it's mainly about PG depth, and you need Hill for those games where Bledsoe gets weird too.

 

As long as you keep one of Brogdon or Khris, I think you're okay on the wing with Brown, Snell, Pat C, and DDV. And as long as you keep Mirotic or Lopez, you have another big who is a good fit with Giannis, to go with Ersan and eventually Wilson. But the PG spot could completely undermine them without Hill. Plus he could be putting up better numbers, and does when the team needs him too, so it's not like Khris and Brogdom are that much better than him at scoring even if the raw numbers suggest they are.

 

The real question is not who they prioritize but how much tax they will pay though.

 

I feel they'll sign Middleton and go over the cap, especially the way he's played in the postseason. Brogdon and Hill, honestly no idea. Brogdon is restricted but will get sone hefty offers. Tough call on those guys. Divo, Patty C, maybe Brown are nice players but not on Hill or Brogdons level.

 

Loosing Lopez would scare me almost as much as Middleton. People just don't understand how he anchors the defense. Bud does, talks about it all the time. I fear in a shooters league, some team may give him a huge offer. Everyone wants a guy like this at the 5, and now that teams saw how the Bucks used him his value went way up. And with no money to spend in FA, who are they going to get to replace him?

 

Could they restrucure Giannis with a new contract and move some money back a couple years? No idea how that all works, Giannis just seems like a guy who would be open to it if it meant keeping the band together.

 

 

There's no doubt we're going to be over the luxury tax I don't think. It's about how far into we go. The further we go, the more we're penalized. Picking up Hill's option would likely mean playing over 3 million in penalties for each million we spend, essentially meaning Hill would cost 60 million to sign...

 

And no, we can't restructure Giannis. He's a super max level player all the way and as such, his contract is fixed. He'll be signing a super max deal after winning an MVP(or at least being a runner up) and he'll be the highest paid player in North American sports. He'll be earning 45-50 million if not more per year in Milwaukee.

 

Also, we can't extend Giannis until next off-season. He certainly seems committed to winning IN Milwaukee though. He's been upset when guys have left, most recently Maker.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Hill is the most important for wins and losses even if you don't think he's the best player.

 

I made this argument on Deadspin the other day. One of their awful writers called the Bucks bench "Uninspiring". I pointed out that while G. Hill might not be the Bucks 2nd best player, during the stretch run and the playoffs, it's possible he's been their 2nd most important player, and that doesn't even begin to encompass the rest of the bench.

 

At the end of the day, it's not my money, so it's a hard argument to make, but I hope Hill is brought back. I'll understand the dollars and cents of it if he's not, but I sure as HECK hope we get a championship out of this group before they take it apart if they make some cuts.