Brent Suter Tommy John Update (August 4: Transferred to AA Biloxi)

[tmwiese55]

No it's a legit discussion. Perhaps not the best thread for it though.

 

First, no a big part of the obsession on steroids is the integrity of records and all that. The point about available to all is something valid to right now, I agree there. But this was not available to folks years and years back, and that's a big part of why the old timers were up in arms about it.

 

Onto that point, no not all banned PEDs are bad for people's health. In fact, many of them are prescribed by doctors all the time. The old school Canseco/Mcguire real deal anabolic stuff, yea that's different and I agree. But many modern PEDs banned now are fully available over the counter, legal for average joes and are beneficial to health. I've seen studies saying how great HGH, but that was a few years ago now so I'm not sure if more has come out poking holes in it. So my general take would be to just move the line a bit further to allow more supplements or things in small doses but real deal needles in the arm horse testosterone, yea keep that crazy stuff banned.

 

Like using an alphabet analogy, if A=worse of the worst old school and Z=some run in the mill thing that millions take daily without thinking. Let's say the line is currently set at "P". Well, I'd be fine moving it over to like G or J. That's my two cents and will try to refrain from much more.

 

Most importantly, glad Suter is killing it.

[MrTPlush]

Don't many players get busted for illegal drugs they wouldn't be able legally obtain? As in you aren't going to get access to it them even if baseball allowed them. Like the doctor ain't giving you a prescription for it to be better at baseball or to even stay "healthier" while playing baseball. HGH for example is highly illegal except for very rare exceptions...must like many other testosterone booster drugs. There is a reason Bosch and many others are in jail...the drugs are illegal, period. These players are committing a crime by possessing/using them.

 

It is much more than player safety, the drugs are flat out illegal. It is like getting mad because MLB banned players from using cocaine. It is already illegal...they shouldn't even need to tell you not to do it.

 

Lasik Surgery is a legal thing to do, the drugs these players get caught with are not legal to do. You could talk about over the counter stuff they outlaw, but that isn't what these players are getting caught with. Actually I think quite a few these days are only getting caught by testing for the cover up drug. They aren't taking masking agents to cover up the vitamin gummy bears.

[homer]

There are plenty of legal medications that are on the banned list and plenty of things on the banned list that are found in certain over the counter supplements. For example: Clostebol: This is an anabolic steroid used in dietary supplements. A number of professional athletes have tested positive for clostebol, including Freddy Galvis with the Philadelphia Phillies in 2012, Dee Gordon with the Miami Marlins in 2016, and Olympic athlete Viktoria Orsi Toth in 2016. But most have argued they unknowingly ingested the substance.

[tmwiese55]

Yea I think Plush's point falls in line with what I'm saying. That stuff, yea ban it all you want. But I think they've taken a bit too far into plenty of healthy and legal things. I'd bet money the muscle bound workout obsessed guy I work with his workout powders on his desk that he buys over the counter is illegal in MLB but not in life.

 

funny, I used to make the opposite argument in the late 90s when folks would say "why is everyone so mad about McGwire/Sosa etc and what they're taking, it's not even banned in MLB". I'd say, yea but it's technically illegal in normal life so that should be enough right there. Granted, it's something the govt wasn't really too worried about enforcing relative to real deal drugs.

[et bbal]

I like to look at this as a parent. If my kid wants to be an athlete I don't want him/her to feel pressured to use steroids just to keep up. Because as a general rule, the only time they provide a competitive advantage is when player A is using and player B isn't. On the other hand, if my child has suffered an injury that needs surgery to correct the problem, then yes have the surgery. It is not just about competing, but has to do with quality of life going forward. And while there are no absolutes when a person has surgery, generally there are not long term health risks associated with surgery. One has negative long term health effects, the other doesn't.

[wildcat83]

Suter has been beyond ridiculous since returning. I remember the days of people arguing if he was good enough to be the 5th starter. The guy comes back from Tommy John and is almost unhitable. Can we have all our healthy pitchers get Tommy John??? Only half kidding...

[brewmann04]

Yes he has been pretty lights out .

[sveumrules]

Brent Suter averages 16.4 seconds between pitches compared to an MLB average of 24.9 seconds.

 

If every pitcher worked at Suter's pace, the season would have taken about 1,666 less hours so far.

[folly412]

1 run given up in 34 professional innings this year (16.1 MiLB, 17.2 MLB). In his first appearance at the major league level, to a guy OPSing over 1.100. WHIP of 0.50. Just amazing.

 

[clancyphile]

I wonder which of the nuggets I'm picking in my Top 25 ballots will be the next Brent Suter...

 

Cam Roegner?

Henry Medina?

Scott Sunitsch?

Noah Zavolas?

[folly412]

Suter has been named the NL Reliever of the Month for September. Only a surprise if you've been tuned out for the past four weeks.

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/brandon-workman-brent-suter-relievers-of-month

[wildcat83]

McCalvy just posted an “inbox” article. While answering the first question about pitching he said Suter is out till mid-season. Did he get hurt again????

[DuWayne Steurer]

He corrected himself. Suter is not hurt.

[torts]

Lol I saw that too,got concerned for a second

[TigerUppercut]

Lol I saw that too,got concerned for a second

 

Suter proved to be an absolute weapon for the Crew down the stretch. I know people aren't in love with his stuff but the guy provides so much from a locker room/glue standpoint that if his performance next year mirrors anything even close to what he showed this year, he's an incredibly valuable piece to have for a team that doesn't really have any guys that you can count on for 7 every time out (at this point in time). With his versatility, I wouldn't at all be surprised if we look at Suter a year from now as the team's MVP. Regardless of stuff, he knows how to pitch and he's just a gamer.

[liveforoctober]

Lol I saw that too,got concerned for a second

 

Suter proved to be an absolute weapon for the Crew down the stretch. I know people aren't in love with his stuff but the guy provides so much from a locker room/glue standpoint that if his performance next year mirrors anything even close to what he showed this year, he's an incredibly valuable piece to have for a team that doesn't really have any guys that you can count on for 7 every time out (at this point in time). With his versatility, I wouldn't at all be surprised if we look at Suter a year from now as the team's MVP. Regardless of stuff, he knows how to pitch and he's just a gamer.

 

This particular point about Suter has been hashed over and over again, especially when he was a starting pitcher but it is worth revisiting in any convo about him. His pace is such a change up to anyone else in the league and the first time through an order for hitters it is just odd and uncomfortable to hit against him. Someone will need to verify this for me because I am bad at the internet, but when he was a starter I felt like his first time through the order was good to possibly even above average and then he struggled the 2nd time through. When you bring him in after a starter throwing 92-97 you get hit with a slower pitch at an electric pace and I don't care who you are .. it is uncomfortable. Suter in that mid game 2-3 inning role makes so much sense why he was successful and I would hope/expect that to be the norm from here on out. Incredible piece to have in the bullpen.

[Roderick]

Lol I saw that too,got concerned for a second

 

Suter proved to be an absolute weapon for the Crew down the stretch. I know people aren't in love with his stuff but the guy provides so much from a locker room/glue standpoint that if his performance next year mirrors anything even close to what he showed this year, he's an incredibly valuable piece to have for a team that doesn't really have any guys that you can count on for 7 every time out (at this point in time). With his versatility, I wouldn't at all be surprised if we look at Suter a year from now as the team's MVP. Regardless of stuff, he knows how to pitch and he's just a gamer.

 

This particular point about Suter has been hashed over and over again, especially when he was a starting pitcher but it is worth revisiting in any convo about him. His pace is such a change up to anyone else in the league and the first time through an order for hitters it is just odd and uncomfortable to hit against him. Someone will need to verify this for me because I am bad at the internet, but when he was a starter I felt like his first time through the order was good to possibly even above average and then he struggled the 2nd time through. When you bring him in after a starter throwing 92-97 you get hit with a slower pitch at an electric pace and I don't care who you are .. it is uncomfortable. Suter in that mid game 2-3 inning role makes so much sense why he was successful and I would hope/expect that to be the norm from here on out. Incredible piece to have in the bullpen.

 

If they allow 14 pitchers with expanded rosters, CC may even limit starter innings even more than prior years (is that possible), which makes Suter just as valuable as a starter if he pitches 2 innings every three days, especially since you would hold him for leveraged appearances.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Someone will need to verify this for me because I am bad at the internet, but when he was a starter I felt like his first time through the order was good to possibly even above average and then he struggled the 2nd time through. When you bring him in after a starter throwing 92-97 you get hit with a slower pitch at an electric pace and I don't care who you are .. it is uncomfortable. Suter in that mid game 2-3 inning role makes so much sense why he was successful and I would hope/expect that to be the norm from here on out. Incredible piece to have in the bullpen.

 

There's been a notable dropoff the second time through as both starter and reliever in his career...

 

SP 1st Through: 306 PA, 283 AB, SO/W 3.71, .230 BAA, .658 OPS

SP 2nd Through: 294 PA. 280 AB, SO/W 5.36, .271 BAA, .740 OPS

SP 3rd Through: 133 PA, 130 AB, SO/W 1.67, .350 BAA, .989 OPS

 

RP 1st Through: 168 PA, 157 AB, SO/W 4.11, .204 BAA, .536 OPS

RP 2nd Through: 19 PA, 17 AB, SO/W 4.00, .294 BAA, .898 OPS

 

He's been most dominant as a reliever facing a lineup once. In other words he's like 90% of MLB pitchers.