Packers Draft Thread.....

[OnTheBlack]

Some buzz that New England would like to move up to get either Hockenson or Fant. The Patriots have two 2nd round picks, and probably three 3rd rounds picks (they are likely to get a couple of comp picks in that round since Nate Solder and Malcolm Butler signed elsewhere as FAs). I'm reading that they really like Fant.

 

That would give them plenty of ammunition to move up past the Packers #30 pick.

 

So if the Packers want a TE, they may have to make the move at #12.

 

 

Two 3rd round picks for two absolute garbage fires in their first years for their new teams.

 

Nate Solder signing for 4/62 makes you wonder how bad the Trent Brown 4/66 signing after spending one year in New England.

 

It also gives you an idea of the market for tackles. Of course both are left tackles, but would you take either over Bulaga? Solder is the same age roughly. Brown is a giant and much younger, but the 49ers traded him just a year ago along with a 5 for a 3rd round pick. And he spent most of his career on the right side.

[patrickgpe]

I haven’t really made any predictions because I was waiting to see what they would do in free agency and get the combine and pro days in. If they don’t trade up I’d be ecstatic with hockinson or Oliver at 12 and fant or abrams at 30.

 

I do think that with these quarterbacks moving up the board , it doesn’t make sense to trade up and someone who we thought was guaranteed to be gone could be sitting there like white or bush.

[HiAndTight]

I haven’t really made any predictions because I was waiting to see what they would do in free agency and get the combine and pro days in. If they don’t trade up I’d be ecstatic with hockinson or Oliver at 12 and fant or abrams at 30.

 

I do think that with these quarterbacks moving up the board , it doesn’t make sense to trade up and someone who we thought was guaranteed to be gone could be sitting there like white or bush.

 

 

I only trade up if I can get Allen or Bosa.

 

And even at 12, I hate the idea of taking Bush. Maybe White, but Bush was a 2nd round pick before his 40 time. I think both have the potential to be busts. And I don't like a MLB'er that high.

 

But that's just me. You trade up ONLY if you can get UK's Allen or OSU's Bosa. If not, I'm 100 pct with you, Oliver works, Hockenson works...Fant looks like he'll be gone at 30, but you never know.

 

We can do BPA, and if those BPA are offensive studs to give Rodgers more weapons, that's great. Both Smiths mean we don't HAVE to take a pass rusher(though it'd be really great to add a 3rd and keep them fresh or move Za'Darius inside on passing downs with Clark and Daniels.

[OldHeidelberg]

It's possible Allen could drop to around 5 where the Packers could actually get to trading both the firsts but with all the money they just spent on the edge rushers I just don't see them using that much draft capital and the larger contract those high picks get on him. But I would be pretty excited if they did.

 

If there is a run on QB's above the Packs pick there should be some great value around #15, that's maybe where we should think of trading up to. Imagine landing both Hockensen and Oliver and only spending our second rounder to move up. We would still have holes to fill but that would be a major upgrade on both sides of the ball.

[patrickgpe]

I haven’t really made any predictions because I was waiting to see what they would do in free agency and get the combine and pro days in. If they don’t trade up I’d be ecstatic with hockinson or Oliver at 12 and fant or abrams at 30.

 

I do think that with these quarterbacks moving up the board , it doesn’t make sense to trade up and someone who we thought was guaranteed to be gone could be sitting there like white or bush.

 

 

I only trade up if I can get Allen or Bosa.

 

And even at 12, I hate the idea of taking Bush. Maybe White, but Bush was a 2nd round pick before his 40 time. I think both have the potential to be busts. And I don't like a MLB'er that high.

 

But that's just me. You trade up ONLY if you can get UK's Allen or OSU's Bosa. If not, I'm 100 pct with you, Oliver works, Hockenson works...Fant looks like he'll be gone at 30, but you never know.

 

We can do BPA, and if those BPA are offensive studs to give Rodgers more weapons, that's great. Both Smiths mean we don't HAVE to take a pass rusher(though it'd be really great to add a 3rd and keep them fresh or move Za'Darius inside on passing downs with Clark and Daniels.

I would have agreed with you before they got the smiths. I guess you can never have enough pass rushers and I am not against using the pick the saints have us to move up. My point was there are more pressing needs now that can be addressed at 12 and 30.

[HiAndTight]

I haven’t really made any predictions because I was waiting to see what they would do in free agency and get the combine and pro days in. If they don’t trade up I’d be ecstatic with hockinson or Oliver at 12 and fant or abrams at 30.

 

I do think that with these quarterbacks moving up the board , it doesn’t make sense to trade up and someone who we thought was guaranteed to be gone could be sitting there like white or bush.

 

 

I only trade up if I can get Allen or Bosa.

 

And even at 12, I hate the idea of taking Bush. Maybe White, but Bush was a 2nd round pick before his 40 time. I think both have the potential to be busts. And I don't like a MLB'er that high.

 

But that's just me. You trade up ONLY if you can get UK's Allen or OSU's Bosa. If not, I'm 100 pct with you, Oliver works, Hockenson works...Fant looks like he'll be gone at 30, but you never know.

 

We can do BPA, and if those BPA are offensive studs to give Rodgers more weapons, that's great. Both Smiths mean we don't HAVE to take a pass rusher(though it'd be really great to add a 3rd and keep them fresh or move Za'Darius inside on passing downs with Clark and Daniels.

I would have agreed with you before they got the smiths. I guess you can never have enough pass rushers and I am not against using the pick the saints have us to move up. My point was there are more pressing needs now that can be addressed at 12 and 30.

 

 

I'm only saying this because of the little I've seen on tape, how good he looks, and how good he projects to be. Edge rushers, the real elite prospects seem to hit more than any other position save for maybe OL and even there it's mostly guard and center. Hockenson looks like he's going to be at worst a serviceable TE.

 

Coming into the draft season I knew next to nothing about Allen. I'm just an advocate of taking a position of strength and adding to it if possible. Not to the detriment of other positions, but I think we're solid just about everywhere. No massive holes that can't be addressed. If we can get a pass rush that's not just solid, but elite and one truly dominant edge guy, I'd go for it.

 

 

 

The idea of moving up into the #15 range if there is a run on QB's and nabbing both Hockenson and Oliver sounds good to me. I'm not understanding the reason for Oliver to go sliding down the draft board. He WAS being talked about as the top overall pick since he was a recruit. He was the top overall recruit, he dominated at Houston, people talked about if he was going to play this year. He did, but when you're playing no to get hurt and then you get hurt....I guess with him it just sounds like he was looking forward a bit and if he was that great of a talent just months ago, I'd be pretty happy with getting him as well. Clark to me is a defensive centerpiece. He can rush and play the run. Daniels may well be gone after this year, though I'd like to see him back, but if Oliver really is even 75 pct of Aaron Donald, that's a pretty nice pick at 12.

[brewcrewdue80]

I really didnt think just our 30th could climb the team to #5 but value sites show it does. Id assume you give like a 6th as well. Now the scenario I assume is to draft ahead of Detroit if we're looking at same guy or moving up from 30, ahead of the Vikings pick. That looks like adding the 3rd and first 4th to pick 17. I like the plausibility to do that similar to the Raji/Matthews draft get.

[OnTheBlack]

I really didnt think just our 30th could climb the team to #5 but value sites show it does. Id assume you give like a 6th as well. Now the scenario I assume is to draft ahead of Detroit if we're looking at same guy or moving up from 30, ahead of the Vikings pick. That looks like adding the 3rd and first 4th to pick 17. I like the plausibility to do that similar to the Raji/Matthews draft get.

 

 

I wonder if the Packers have taken Polite off their board after his ridiculously bad interview at the combine.

 

Anyway, going back to that 2009 draft, remember how there were questions regarding the Packers possibly picking Crabtree at #9 because Thompson apparently loved him and he was already gone in virtually every mock draft(that may even be the draft the Raiders took Heyward-Bey at 6th or so).

 

Crabtree was thought of as guy who'd become a #1 right out of the gate and many thought he'd go #2 overall?

 

Two points here. 1st, the draft ends up playing out so much differently than we expect. Who knows where Allen goes. I think it's a given Bosa goes in the top 3, but maybe Allen does drop to where we can get him without giving up too much.

 

2nd, that was one of Thompson's better drafts and he only drafted 3 players who really contributed. Raji at #9 who performed as well as a guy at that spot generally does, Matthews, a guy who was among the best defensive players in the NFL for a good chunk of his career with the Packers, and then TJ Lang in the 4th, a pro-bowler(only twice, but should have made it another couple times IMO).

 

 

It's kinda interesting to go back and look at how these 1st rounds play out. You end up seeing how few true difference makers there are in each draft and how many of them are taken late in the 1st or early in the 2nd. Maybe trading down and taking 4 or 5 swings is a better idea. Though it's not nearly as fun as a fan.

[patrickgpe]

I don’t think Oliver is around at 12 anymore. Most mock drafts I see have him in the top 10. He was a consensus too pick before the year and his pro day will probably mean he won’t be around. That being said, very likely bush or white will be around, id be happy with either or hockinson at 12. Still want abram at 30.

 

It’s very likely 4 quarterbacks will go in the top 15, 2 have no business based on ability alone. This is great news for GB who will get a much better player at 12 than previously thought. This is why I am now anti-trade up, unless you can get Bosa or Allen.

[reillymcshane]

I don’t think Oliver is around at 12 anymore. Most mock drafts I see have him in the top 10. He was a consensus too pick before the year and his pro day will probably mean he won’t be around. That being said, very likely bush or white will be around, id be happy with either or hockinson at 12. Still want abram at 30.

 

I've been seeing the same thing. I think Oliver would be a steal at #12 - and if he falls, great.

 

I like the other guys you mention at #12 as well - Bush, White and Hockinson. I'm guessing White is gone by the time Green Bay picks, but you never know.

 

Another guy I love is Montez Sweat - but he had a good combine and looks like he'll be gone.

 

Lately, I've seen the Packers linked to WR A.J. Metcalf as well. The guy is an athletic freak, but he needs to work as a receiver. That concerns me. He should be better than he's shown. But the upside is huge - so it's tempting to go after someone like him - even if he needs some development.

 

And another guy that I feel will be gone - but I'm starting to see drop in some mocks, is OT Jawaan Taylor. He would be a great bargain at #12. Offensive line isn't the sexiest thing to pick, but he would be an instant impact guy.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I don’t think Oliver is around at 12 anymore. Most mock drafts I see have him in the top 10. He was a consensus too pick before the year and his pro day will probably mean he won’t be around. That being said, very likely bush or white will be around, id be happy with either or hockinson at 12. Still want abram at 30.

 

I've been seeing the same thing. I think Oliver would be a steal at #12 - and if he falls, great.

 

I like the other guys you mention at #12 as well - Bush, White and Hockinson. I'm guessing White is gone by the time Green Bay picks, but you never know.

 

Another guy I love is Montez Sweat - but he had a good combine and looks like he'll be gone.

 

Lately, I've seen the Packers linked to WR A.J. Metcalf as well. The guy is an athletic freak, but he needs to work as a receiver. That concerns me. He should be better than he's shown. But the upside is huge - so it's tempting to go after someone like him - even if he needs some development.

 

And another guy that I feel will be gone - but I'm starting to see drop in some mocks, is OT Jawaan Taylor. He would be a great bargain at #12. Offensive line isn't the sexiest thing to pick, but he would be an instant impact guy.

 

My feeling is that there is no way all those guys are gone at #12, especially if, as predicted, there is a run on QBs, and 4-5 of them are drafted before #12. The Packers are going to get an excellent prospect at #12, or they are going to get caught in the midst of the run on QBs, and get some team to vastly overpay for #12. If, say, Oakland falls in love with a QB and he's available at #12, the Packers could theoretically get #24 and #27 (and perhaps even more). Maybe you aren't going to get the blue-chipper you can at #12, but three late #1s would go a LONG way toward building depth.

[xisxisxis]

Lately, I've seen the Packers linked to WR A.J. Metcalf as well. The guy is an athletic freak, but he needs to work as a receiver. That concerns me. He should be better than he's shown. But the upside is huge - so it's tempting to go after someone like him - even if he needs some development.

I've seen that and it scares the hell out of me. I really always wonder with guys who have great combines, but don't have great production. To me the combine tests 1 skill at a time, while the games test your ability to combine all those skills. I really don't think the Packers pass up the other options since I think there will be a lot of elite players falling, but just the mention of Metcalf to the Packers makes me anxious...

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Lately, I've seen the Packers linked to WR A.J. Metcalf as well. The guy is an athletic freak, but he needs to work as a receiver. That concerns me. He should be better than he's shown. But the upside is huge - so it's tempting to go after someone like him - even if he needs some development.

I've seen that and it scares the hell out of me. I really always wonder with guys who have great combines, but don't have great production. To me the combine tests 1 skill at a time, while the games test your ability to combine all those skills. I really don't think the Packers pass up the other options since I think there will be a lot of elite players falling, but just the mention of Metcalf to the Packers makes me anxious...

 

Metcalf is certainly an athletic freak, but drafting him would scare the crap out of me. I just think he's a chronic hamstring strain waiting to happen. Professional athletes just can't function at 1.5 % body fat and take any sort of pounding. Body fat isn't necessarily a bad thing with these guys, as it provides some protection for muscle, tendons, ligaments and cartilage that isn't nearly as durable.

 

I mean, I could be wrong on him, but I have a really hard time seeing Metcalf ever having a major impact in the NFL. Just too many red flags.

[patrickgpe]

There seems to be a bunch of second round WR’s they could target. I’d stay away from metcalf at 12. IF brown is around at 30, I’d look at that but it’s unlikely. I’d rather focus on other needs and get a wr with their second round pick, like N’Keal Harry.

 

Historically, the packers have had great success with 2nd round WR’s (Nelson, Adams, Cobb) too.

[reillymcshane]

There seems to be a bunch of second round WR’s they could target. I’d stay away from metcalf at 12. IF brown is around at 30, I’d look at that but it’s unlikely. I’d rather focus on other needs and get a wr with their second round pick, like N’Keal Harry.

 

Historically, the packers have had great success with 2nd round WR’s (Nelson, Adams, Cobb) too.

I like AJ Brown of Ole Miss. I see him as the opposite of Metcalf - a guy who might not be a burner, but does everything else right and simply produces. Good hands, good route runner, smart, strong player. He could line up from day one and contribute big time. While not tall, he's going to be a great possession type player and would be a huge addition for the Packers.

 

I see him as a late 1st round pick - so if he's there are #30 - he's a good pick. Especially if we don't take a receiver at #12.

[reillymcshane]

My feeling is that there is no way all those guys are gone at #12, especially if, as predicted, there is a run on QBs, and 4-5 of them are drafted before #12. The Packers are going to get an excellent prospect at #12, or they are going to get caught in the midst of the run on QBs, and get some team to vastly overpay for #12. If, say, Oakland falls in love with a QB and he's available at #12, the Packers could theoretically get #24 and #27 (and perhaps even more). Maybe you aren't going to get the blue-chipper you can at #12, but three late #1s would go a LONG way toward building depth.

The QB stuff is - as you note - a big deal. If clubs start making moves to get into the top 10 -- we could end up with some nice options. Let's hope it happens.

[HiAndTight]

Lately, I've seen the Packers linked to WR A.J. Metcalf as well. The guy is an athletic freak, but he needs to work as a receiver. That concerns me. He should be better than he's shown. But the upside is huge - so it's tempting to go after someone like him - even if he needs some development.

I've seen that and it scares the hell out of me. I really always wonder with guys who have great combines, but don't have great production. To me the combine tests 1 skill at a time, while the games test your ability to combine all those skills. I really don't think the Packers pass up the other options since I think there will be a lot of elite players falling, but just the mention of Metcalf to the Packers makes me anxious...

 

 

I agree with you normally, but even moreso on Metcalf. Brown was the 1st rounder on that team, not him. Now because he has a tweet in which he looks like a body builder and then runs fast he's suddenly a great WR'er?

 

Please. Jerry Rice was skinny and slow(relatively speaking) and is by far the best ever. I want someone who's fluid, quick in and out of routes and not a body catcher if we're drafting a speedster to play in the slot. I'm happy Metcalf is moving up as long as it doesn't mean we take him.

 

Of course, I feel the same way about Devin Bush(Michigan MLB'er). He wasn't a 1st rounder until well after the season. n fact, he was a disappointment. And I REALLY don't want to see a MLB'er at 12 if it's not White and even then, I have 6-8 people who are at least 80 pct likely to be there that I'd much rather see the Packers get. And honestly, I'm not sure Owen Burks isn't as good as Devin Bush anyway. I know he was banged up last year, but in the few snaps he got early he looked active and athletic.

 

Oliver probably will be gone because teams are likely not as fickle as the writers who put these mock drafts out.

[HiAndTight]

Lately, I've seen the Packers linked to WR A.J. Metcalf as well. The guy is an athletic freak, but he needs to work as a receiver. That concerns me. He should be better than he's shown. But the upside is huge - so it's tempting to go after someone like him - even if he needs some development.

I've seen that and it scares the hell out of me. I really always wonder with guys who have great combines, but don't have great production. To me the combine tests 1 skill at a time, while the games test your ability to combine all those skills. I really don't think the Packers pass up the other options since I think there will be a lot of elite players falling, but just the mention of Metcalf to the Packers makes me anxious...

 

Metcalf is certainly an athletic freak, but drafting him would scare the crap out of me. I just think he's a chronic hamstring strain waiting to happen. Professional athletes just can't function at 1.5 % body fat and take any sort of pounding. Body fat isn't necessarily a bad thing with these guys, as it provides some protection for muscle, tendons, ligaments and cartilage that isn't nearly as durable.

 

I mean, I could be wrong on him, but I have a really hard time seeing Metcalf ever having a major impact in the NFL. Just too many red flags.

 

 

I can tell you with ALMOST absolute certainty, he does not have 1.5 pct body fat. They throw these ridiculous numbers out. I doubt anyone remembers, but a few college wrestlers died in the late 90's from cutting weight and they implemented body fat tests. You could not go below about 6 pct without a parents signature or your own signature and then you still could only go down to 4.5 pct.

 

You'd take those tests and if it showed you were .5 pounds away from being at the weight you wanted, you had to go up to Madison and get an exact measurement done. I've seen some absolute monsters who were 5-6 pct. AS big as or bigger than Metcalf with less body fat than him.

 

They pull these numbers out of thin air using ridiculously inaccurate sets of data that can be SO easily manipulated by the person doing the test.

 

I can make your body fat 8 pct or 13 pct by making a couple of centimeter change in a few places on your body.

 

 

Sorry, this is just a pet peeve of mine. I'm about 99 pct sure he had someone do a skinfold test and skew the numbers.

 

Don't get me wrong, he's ripped, but he's not 1.5 pct body fat just like Driver wasn't when he played.

[HiAndTight]

There seems to be a bunch of second round WR’s they could target. I’d stay away from metcalf at 12. IF brown is around at 30, I’d look at that but it’s unlikely. I’d rather focus on other needs and get a wr with their second round pick, like N’Keal Harry.

 

Historically, the packers have had great success with 2nd round WR’s (Nelson, Adams, Cobb) too.

 

 

And potentially the most talented among the group, Terrance Murphy never got to play in the NFL.

 

That was TT's position though. We'll have to see what Gute's are.

[docduany]

I am definitely NOT in the Metcalf fan club. Scares me with his lack of production. Combine workout warriors without production to back it up are not what we need at #12. I'd be happy with Oliver, Hockensen, White, and Bush. I'd be mostly ok with Sweat. I'm coming around on Taylor or Jonah Williams. I understand the need for talent, youth, and bodies on the OL. Its just not sexy, and we've not picked this high in quite a while.

[HiAndTight]

I am definitely NOT in the Metcalf fan club. Scares me with his lack of production. Combine workout warriors without production to back it up are not what we need at #12. I'd be happy with Oliver, Hockensen, White, and Bush. I'd be mostly ok with Sweat. I'm coming around on Taylor or Jonah Williams. I understand the need for talent, youth, and bodies on the OL. Its just not sexy, and we've not picked this high in quite a while.

 

 

From a Packers fans perspective, it's probably tougher to get behind a tackle at #12 as we've drafted and developed all-pro and pro-bowl guards and centers in the middle rounds, as well as the best pass blocking, left tackle.

 

And the best pass rushers are usually drafted early on.

 

You say mostly ok on Sweat. What would be your hesitation?

[CheezWizHed]

There seems to be a bunch of second round WR’s they could target. I’d stay away from metcalf at 12. IF brown is around at 30, I’d look at that but it’s unlikely. I’d rather focus on other needs and get a wr with their second round pick, like N’Keal Harry.

 

Historically, the packers have had great success with 2nd round WR’s (Nelson, Adams, Cobb) too.

 

 

And potentially the most talented among the group, Terrance Murphy never got to play in the NFL.

 

That was TT's position though. We'll have to see what Gute's are.

 

Don't forget Gregg Jennings

 

We will see if Adam's passes Jordy, but so far Joday was the best of those five 2nd round picks.

[HiAndTight]

 

Don't forget Gregg Jennings

 

We will see if Adam's passes Jordy, but so far Joday was the best of those five 2nd round picks.

 

 

Good catch. I didn't even notice that he wasn't in there.

 

 

Adams has already surpassed what I thought he'd be last year. I thought he'd be good, but not a clear cut #1 WR'er like he has been.

 

And I agree Jordy's been the best, he and Jennings career stats are remarkably similar. I think both got a bit overlooked outside of GB because of the weapons around them and their QB in their primes.

[Jenkins5]

Don’t sleep on Bush at 12! Gute skipped Clemson and other major pro days to go to Michigan. Gray didn’t participate & after huge combine Bush has worked way up. Doubt Gute picked that pro day over the likes of Clemson with 3 huge targets in top 15 just to see Chase Winovich as 2nd rounder. Clearly Packers had scouts at all the big ones but fact GM went there, leads me to believe Gray and/or Bush may be high on their list.

I think that was when the Jets were shopping their pick and Gray was a likely option for the team. I haven't seen any mocks where Gray lasts until the 12th pick. All of the above occurred before the big FA signings so there may be a big change in thinking now. I believe without the Smith's, Gute was going to trade up to take an impact D, but now he has the luxury to see what happens before him at #12.

 

 

Hmmmm Looking back....

[OnTheBlack]

Don’t sleep on Bush at 12! Gute skipped Clemson and other major pro days to go to Michigan. Gray didn’t participate & after huge combine Bush has worked way up. Doubt Gute picked that pro day over the likes of Clemson with 3 huge targets in top 15 just to see Chase Winovich as 2nd rounder. Clearly Packers had scouts at all the big ones but fact GM went there, leads me to believe Gray and/or Bush may be high on their list.

I think that was when the Jets were shopping their pick and Gray was a likely option for the team. I haven't seen any mocks where Gray lasts until the 12th pick. All of the above occurred before the big FA signings so there may be a big change in thinking now. I believe without the Smith's, Gute was going to trade up to take an impact D, but now he has the luxury to see what happens before him at #12.

 

 

Hmmmm Looking back....

 

 

Man, I can't say definitively, but if the Packers had taken Derwin GRAY, the 7th round pick out of Maryland, then I would say with a pretty high degree of certainty(not as high as others) that he was going to be a bust!

 

 

Seriously though, this tells me they really did their homework on Gary, they went and got as much info on him as they could and were told privately by the Michigan coaches what they've since said publicly. The guy plays hard(watch video of him making Clay like plays coming off the backside and tackling a RB 10-15 yards downfield...for a 280 LB man....good god that's impressive.

 

And he just seems like a smart, hard working kid who was played over the guard more often than he was played out wide.

 

If the Packers had taken a guy like Montravius Adams(or Jerel Worthy, or any number of guys with ability, but questions about heart), someone who was dominant at times, but disappeared at others due to EFFORT, I'd be worried. But they took a guy with unprecedented athletic ability, position versatility, who very well may have been a top 5 pick in a draft that wasn't SO heavy on the pass rushing talent, and this guy works his arse off, he doesn't take plays off, he's always hustling.

 

The little bit I've seen, maybe he's a bit raw when it comes to hand fighting...but the kid is 21. You don't get perfectly polished 6'4 280 LB OLB'ers with 34+ inch arms who runs a sub 4.6. Kenny Clark, Mike Daniels...from what I've heard Za'Darius Smith and then ultimately Mike Pettine are gonna get the most out of this guy. I'm more confident the more I read about him.

 

 

Plus...as has been said, as a fan, given our obvious ignorance, no insult to anyone, but we don't really know what the hell we're talking about with these prospects, we're just going by needs and the latest mock drafts. SO, given how ignorant we all really are, why NOT take the optimistic POV when it comes to draft picks?

 

That's not what I'm doing with Gary, I really like him...but that's what I'm doing with Savage. That's what I'm doing with the Miss St kid who they picked at 44...and pretty much every other player. So basically, in lieu of more insight to give you reason to be optimistic like I believe we have with Gary, just be optimistic since the only other option is whining and worrying about something you don't have a clue about.