Packers Draft Thread.....

[HiAndTight]

I know we have a dedicated thread to the Packers FA signings and their off-season acquisitions, but the Draft is such a huge focal point for every NFL team, I thought I'd start a new thread here to discuss some of the guys we'd like to see picked, and then discuss those selections(as well as anything else the Packers may choose to do with their draft capital).

 

EDIT-(MAN, sorry, this post got away from me a little bit. I put in bold and quoted the guys I'd like to see us pick, skip over and do the same if you'd like!)

 

 

With the Packers signing the two Smiths, both of whom are looking better and better the more you dig into them, Preston among the top in the league in QB pressures the last 3 years, Za'Darius looking like a freak who can lineup over the guard and blow him up, we no longer NEED to draft an Edge in the first round.

 

That coupled with possibility that at least 2 QB's go before our pick and now I've heard some experts even talk about 4 with the Duke QB and Lock going in the top 10 as well(the prior would really shock me, but runs on QB's aren't exactly unheard of) I'm hoping one of the premium talents falls to us.

 

Greedy Williams the CB from LSU looked like a top 5 pick, but now he looks to be falling in some mock drafts as he struggled a bit as a redshirt Soph this past year.

 

Still, can't look past 6'2 and a 4.38 40 time. CB is no longer a position of need like OLB'er was for us coming into the year, but it's also not a truly established position.

 

 

If the Packers get a little Greedy, and Kevin King stays healthy next year, they could be working with two athletic 6'2-6'3 CB's on the outside and then Alexander could EASILY move intisde to the slot....a position he's suited to play equally as well as he played outside.

 

Next two picks, I'd like to see offense, so I'm pulling for Fant, the Jered Cook type athlete(but faster) at TE, but from a school that we've had a ton of success at, and perhaps one of those OLE Miss WR'ers, or Parris Campbell, the speedy, versatile WR'er/Return man, Percy Harvin tye guy who'd be a awesome fit in our new offense where we're running quickk hitting WR'er screens and a lot of RPO's that often give the ball to a guy in space with just his man to beat for a 15+ yard gain.

 

 

Of course I'd like to see Sweat with the first pick, even with rumors that BOTH Matthews and the Packers are open to Clay coming back on a 1 year deal for a huge salary gut if he's available. He seems like he could legitimately be the next Von Miller with his ability to bend and his ridiculously explosive 1st step, but his 4.41 MAY have dropped him out of our range.

 

 

So my hopes for our 1st 4 picks

1st-12-CB Grady Williams 6'2 4.38 40 out of LSU, a ton of talent and the potential to be a #1 lockdown corner in the NFL. Could help give us a trio of studs and two outside guys with great length in King, Williams and Alexander.

 

1st-30-Noah Fant Iowa TE 4.41 40

He's like a Cook, but not as good of a blocker...but he was among the strongest TE's in the draft, so that's he can certainly develop with the Packers. He could learn for a year from Graham and then take over.

 

2nd-44th pick Deionte Thompson DB/S 6'2 210 Alabama

He's a versatile safety who's more of a FS than a strong safety..which is fine because Amos can play either. He was listed in the top 15 on many draft boards during the CFB season, but a wrist injury and some foggy legal issues have seen his stock drop. But another big, versatile Safety who can play CB(similar to a Byron Jones) and play a legit CF could be the safety made Eddie Jackson(also from 'Bama) was to Amos in Chicago. Possible he ends even lasting to the 3rd if he doesn't run at his pro-day because the 4.45 projected 40 time doesn't do anyone much good, nor does the lingering wrist injury.

 

3rd-Jaylon Ferguson 6'6 260 LB OLB'er from La Tech

Holds record for most sacks in career. 27 pct of his tackles were for loss. Went to combine after being disinvited due to a fight he got into before he started playing football, but after he enrolled into college. Supposed to be a high cieling, lose floor type guy and we could do worse than loading up at edge rushers with talent.

 

Also, very good vs the run.

 

 

 

Also, while I'm speculating, I'd like to see the Packers try and swing a trade for Daron Lee from the Jets. They have almost no reason to keep him any longer, but he's still just two yeras removed from being a 1st round draft pick, he has the physical ability to be a sideline to sideline MLB'er and I'd rather see us move a 5th and just get a guy who already has a couple years experiance than use a 2nd on a guy like Bush from Michigan. Devin White from LSU could be an impact MLB'er, but not a fan of drafting LB'ers that high.

 

4th round picks-BPA G/T, WR'er, RB. Someone like Alabama's Ross Pierschbacher, Alabama G/C, and then maybe a RB who fits the new system better than Jamal Williams. I'd like to see one more athletic back in there with Jones.

 

 

So that's a

1-12 Greedy Williams CB

2-30 Noah Fant TE

2-44 Deionte Thompson DB/S 6'2 210 Alabama

3-Jaylon Ferguson EDGE

4th-WR'er with upside from the slot and more depth on that line. Preferably a guy who can play Guard and Tackle, but someone like Pierschbacher who can also back up Corey Linsley as I doubt he goes another 2 years without missing a snap would be great.

 

Trade with the Jets for Daron Lee, a former 1st who struggled, but came on last year a little bit, but is almost certainly getting pushed out now with Mosley signing a 90 million dollar deal.

 

If we hit and get lucky like the Saints did, we should have a lock down secondary in short order, at least one young OLB'er who can contibute right away, but whom we don't HAVE to count on to do so, a potential 1st year starter and a top backup at both guard spots and C, and that field stretching TE we've lacked since Finley teased us with his ability for a few years before suffering a unfortunate career ending injury just as he was bouncing back.

 

 

 

Obviously there's no need to write a theisis paper here as I did, just excited about this draft after the Packers added 3 PROVEN starters to the defensive side of the ball and are talking to a couple other guys who could provide quite a bit of value for us THIS YEAR, namely Clay who'd only have to come in once in a whie, and trade for a former 1st round LB'er who hasn't lived up to the hype, but has 4.4-ish speed.

 

 

Of course, as we all know, guys right now projected to be top 20 picks ending falling to the 4th round and some guys whoot up draft boards like Ferguson who could be this years Davenport. So I reserve the right to edit my choices as the season goes on.

 

 

But with a healthy DL, a rebuild LB'ing Core, a CB coming off a great rookie season, a couple more who show great upside and a few leaders on D and just a HC and new OC who bring Arod back to life and I see no reason why the Packers can't do.

 

 

Hopefully the Packers just took the first few steps to getting ARod what they could never get Favre, some talent to help him wrap up his career in GB like Tom Brady is in NE. Unlikely, I know, but I'm feeling a little giddy here.

[CheezWizHed]

Now that my shock has wore off from the FA blitz we just put on, I think we are in a very interesting position for the draft.

 

If Sweat falls to us, I think you have to pull the trigger despite our OLB FA binge. He is a boom or bust guy, but we would be in the position to handle the "bust" if necessary.

 

Otherwise, I see White or Hockenson at #12 (or perhaps trading down to #15 with the same result). Hockenson is a unique player that aligns better with LaFleur's offense than Fant. White fills a need at ILB and protects against losing Martinez next year. I could see a T/G going here too.

 

At #30 and 44, I could see a focus on S and DL (Daniels a FA next year).

 

Then in the 3rd and 4th rounds you can address G/C and RB.

[MrTPlush]

I could really see Hockenson. After the all out FA finding defense I think their preference might just be offense for their first pick or two...but if someone with great value falls to us that they like on defense I don't think they would go against taking that guy. If they go defense I would guess it would be pass rush.

[HiAndTight]

Now that my shock has wore off from the FA blitz we just put on, I think we are in a very interesting position for the draft.

 

If Sweat falls to us, I think you have to pull the trigger despite our OLB FA binge. He is a boom or bust guy, but we would be in the position to handle the "bust" if necessary.

 

Otherwise, I see White or Hockenson at #12 (or perhaps trading down to #15 with the same result). Hockenson is a unique player that aligns better with LaFleur's offense than Fant. White fills a need at ILB and protects against losing Martinez next year. I could see a T/G going here too.

 

At #30 and 44, I could see a focus on S and DL (Daniels a FA next year).

 

Then in the 3rd and 4th rounds you can address G/C and RB.

 

 

How is it you think Hockenson fits what LaFleur wants to do more than Fant? As I read this I'm thinking you're putting too much weight into his short time with the Titans, but I really don't know what HIS offense is so much as I know what Shannahan wants to do and McCvoy and his coaching tree and they seem to desire those Jordan Reed TE's.

 

Not that Hockenson isn't a TE who fits everywhere..it just seems as if you're saying he's a better fit than Fant in this offense. Not arguing, just curious.

 

 

White fills more than just a need, he MAY end up being a Kuechly/Deion Jones hybrid, but I hate MLB'ers in the 1st round. Even if everything suggests they could be super-star game changing players. That would likely be a prefect fit and despite my stuborn attitude, a guy like that could make an enormous difference. Look at what Leanoard and Vander Esch did last year for the Colts and the Cowboys. And White(and even Bush if they grabbed in later on) have the athletic ability to play the run and disrput the passing lanes like that.

 

 

As for Martinez, I'd try to re-sign him right now to something like....4 years 28 million WITH this year tacked on and 12 million guaranteed, but try to get the Signing Bonus down to around 8. If we end up with White, he'll end up taking over, but together they could be a pretty nice combo.

 

And I think it's really important we bring back Mike Daniels, but I'd try and extend Kenny Clark 1st. I know he has some time, but the sooner you get it done, the bigger discount you get. Take on 4 years 48 million, then go to Daniels with 3 years 30 million and 10 guaranteed.

 

Those two bring an attitude that we'd been missing for a long time, and while I think the Smith duo can provide some extra toughness, we've been a notoriously soft defense for a while. Daniels has almost single handedly tried to toughen us up and it's worked for stretches. It'd also see him bounce back and stay healthy this year.

[HiAndTight]

I could really see Hockenson. After the all out FA finding defense I think their preference might just be offense for their first pick or two...but if someone with great value falls to us that they like on defense I don't think they would go against taking that guy. If they go defense I would guess it would be pass rush.

 

 

So lets say hypothetically that Greedy Williams falls to 12....a guy most thought would be a top 5, even a top 3 pick a month ago, would you be in favor of taking a lesser talent(the talent difference is going to be small, but for the sake of argument) in order to help the offense?

 

Like for instance a Jonah Williams or Hockenson?

 

 

I guess maybe I'm a bit too enamoured with Fant's 4.41 40 time and not impressed enough by Hockenson who can do everything and who's 40 time was 4.70 compared with Finley's 4.67.

 

Add that one's essentially a Funchess type WR'er and the other is complete and I can see the love for the "slow" Iowa TE.

[HiAndTight]

I could really see Hockenson. After the all out FA finding defense I think their preference might just be offense for their first pick or two...but if someone with great value falls to us that they like on defense I don't think they would go against taking that guy. If they go defense I would guess it would be pass rush.

 

[sarcasm]I guess we can hope that 'Bama's Williams has a Tunsil type moment on draft night![/sarcasm]

[monkeyman343434]

I don't think 40 times matter at all, for example, look at John Ross. I'd be a huge fan of Greedy at 12 if he somehow falls that far. Agreed on Hockenson if they decide to go the TE route, as by all accounts he is a great blocker as well as pass catcher - haven't heard much about Irv Smith Jr's blocking ability.

 

I'd be happy if they took Ferguson at 30 or 44, I don't think he falls to the 3rd round.

 

Hopefully 4 qbs go in the top 11, would make pick #12 that much sweeter.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't think 40 times matter at all, for example, look at John Ross. I'd be a huge fan of Greedy at 12 if he somehow falls that far. Agreed on Hockenson if they decide to go the TE route, as by all accounts he is a great blocker as well as pass catcher - haven't heard much about Irv Smith Jr's blocking ability.

 

I'd be happy if they took Ferguson at 30 or 44, I don't think he falls to the 3rd round.

 

Hopefully 4 qbs go in the top 11, would make pick #12 that much sweeter.

 

I think the combine is for the most part useless. Beyond a gauge for how someone might perform under a lot of pressure, there is nothing about playing football you can actually take away from watching a guy run 40 yards straight ahead unobstructed, or my favorite, the number of times he can bench 225 pounds. The latter is truly worthless.

[MrTPlush]

I could really see Hockenson. After the all out FA finding defense I think their preference might just be offense for their first pick or two...but if someone with great value falls to us that they like on defense I don't think they would go against taking that guy. If they go defense I would guess it would be pass rush.

 

 

So lets say hypothetically that Greedy Williams falls to 12....a guy most thought would be a top 5, even a top 3 pick a month ago, would you be in favor of taking a lesser talent(the talent difference is going to be small, but for the sake of argument) in order to help the offense?

 

Like for instance a Jonah Williams or Hockenson?

 

 

I guess maybe I'm a bit too enamoured with Fant's 4.41 40 time and not impressed enough by Hockenson who can do everything and who's 40 time was 4.70 compared with Finley's 4.67.

 

Add that one's essentially a Funchess type WR'er and the other is complete and I can see the love for the "slow" Iowa TE.

 

I am just guessing a new offense mind coming in will get a flashy offensive target he likes. I just can't see them not going out and getting one. One of the top TEs makes a ton of sense and obviously has been a trendy pick after they went pass rusher happy in FA. Maybe Graham coming back makes a TE unlikely and I would venture to say they have a solid TE corps...but idk, I could see the pick. A big time TE in the red zone would be pretty huge for the offense.

 

The only reason a specifically said edge rusher is because A) I think it is a focus for them now and B) I see a lot of edge rushers being floated in the Top 10 range where I could easily see one fall that they highly value. Really it could be any defensive player they highly value. I guess I also could see them easily going defense just because Top 10 offensive players are pretty far and few in-between this year. RB class sucks, WR class is poor and I don't see us targeting one anyway, OL class isn't all that impressive up top. The TEs seem to really be in our pick range though...which helps make it a trendy pick.

 

Something about sticking Fant/Hockenson and Graham on the field at the same time seems fun.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

If teams get crazy and wee see something like 4 QBs go in the top 11, there's no doubt that one of those highly-ranked edge guys, Greedy Williams, one of the stud DTs or Hockenson is going to be there at 12. That has to be the Packers' hope at this point. Either that or one of the QBs is still on the board, and the Dolphins have to overpay to jump into Green Bay's spot.

[HiAndTight]

I don't think 40 times matter at all, for example, look at John Ross. I'd be a huge fan of Greedy at 12 if he somehow falls that far. Agreed on Hockenson if they decide to go the TE route, as by all accounts he is a great blocker as well as pass catcher - haven't heard much about Irv Smith Jr's blocking ability.

 

I'd be happy if they took Ferguson at 30 or 44, I don't think he falls to the 3rd round.

 

Hopefully 4 qbs go in the top 11, would make pick #12 that much sweeter.

 

I think the combine is for the most part useless. Beyond a gauge for how someone might perform under a lot of pressure, there is nothing about playing football you can actually take away from watching a guy run 40 yards straight ahead unobstructed, or my favorite, the number of times he can bench 225 pounds. The latter is truly worthless.

 

 

 

The value of the workout of the combine is overblown and has led to some good players falling and some bad players rising, but it absolutely has value.

 

How much you can bench press has a DIRECT correlation with playing the game of football. What are you trying to do as a DL? Get your hands on the OL first, extend them, find the ball and then disengage. That's hard to do if you can only bench 225 5 or 7 times. A WR'er who CAN bench 225 20 times is likely going to have a far easier job beating the press at the LOS The 40 is useful as a gauge...ie, if a corner runs a 4.8, he's likely not gonna be a shutdown corner, but it's certainly flawed, but the vertical shows how explosive you are, the agility drills show your change of direction....

 

All of these are extremely important when you're talking about guaranteeing millions of dollars to people.

 

Also the measurements. You don't want a left tackle with 30 inch arms.

 

Then there are all the interviews and the wunderlic test which are extremly useful.

 

I agree, putting in a tape of Alabama vs Clemson and watching those guys go after it is a better way to evaluate than the combine, but you a few hundred schools that play football. You don't awlays have tape on a guy. And as FO guys will repeatedly say, they want to see the athleticism match what they see on tape as it can be mis-leading.

 

You'll always have Darius Heyward-Bey who gets picked 7th because of the combine or a guy like Antonio Brown who IIRC ran a 4.69 drop because of it, but it's most definitely a useful tool.

[HiAndTight]

I could really see Hockenson. After the all out FA finding defense I think their preference might just be offense for their first pick or two...but if someone with great value falls to us that they like on defense I don't think they would go against taking that guy. If they go defense I would guess it would be pass rush.

 

 

So lets say hypothetically that Greedy Williams falls to 12....a guy most thought would be a top 5, even a top 3 pick a month ago, would you be in favor of taking a lesser talent(the talent difference is going to be small, but for the sake of argument) in order to help the offense?

 

Like for instance a Jonah Williams or Hockenson?

 

 

I guess maybe I'm a bit too enamoured with Fant's 4.41 40 time and not impressed enough by Hockenson who can do everything and who's 40 time was 4.70 compared with Finley's 4.67.

 

Add that one's essentially a Funchess type WR'er and the other is complete and I can see the love for the "slow" Iowa TE.

 

I am just guessing a new offense mind coming in will get a flashy offensive target he likes. I just can't see them not going out and getting one. One of the top TEs makes a ton of sense and obviously has been a trendy pick after they went pass rusher happy in FA. Maybe Graham coming back makes a TE unlikely and I would venture to say they have a solid TE corps...but idk, I could see the pick. A big time TE in the red zone would be pretty huge for the offense.

 

The only reason a specifically said edge rusher is because A) I think it is a focus for them now and B) I see a lot of edge rushers being floated in the Top 10 range where I could easily see one fall that they highly value. Really it could be any defensive player they highly value. I guess I also could see them easily going defense just because Top 10 offensive players are pretty far and few in-between this year. RB class sucks, WR class is poor and I don't see us targeting one anyway, OL class isn't all that impressive up top. The TEs seem to really be in our pick range though...which helps make it a trendy pick.

 

Something about sticking Fant/Hockenson and Graham on the field at the same time seems fun.

 

 

Yeah, I would agree with that. Look at last year. Gute tried to sign Allen Robinson to a big contract, just one of several impact players we lost to the Bears.

 

I took your post to mean that they'd prefer to have a bigger, blocking TE instead of a ultra athletic one like Fant, but again, after comparing his times to Finley's, they're pretty similar.

 

And he looked amazing when he played us. They keep using Gronk as an example for him. I do agree with OldSchool that the 40 is extremely overrated, but Hockenson has done well at both the combine and he's been productive in the B10 for a couple years.

 

Let him learn his route running from Graham and his run blocking from Lewis and we've got the next Gronk!

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Yeah, I just don't agree with that at all. The bench press is useless. You would we better off with a power clean test. What's more, the vast majority of an OL or DL's power is coming from his lower body, not his chest. But honestly, I find all of it useless, I think it's interesting HiandTight mentioned wrestling, as I used to wrestle as well in D3. I can't tell you the number of guys that couldn't bench 250 pounds but when it came time to wrestle they were strong as an ox. I look at someone like Ben Askren who is built like a credit card and probably never wastes his time bench pressing, but the guy is crushing watermelons with his hands and beating the crap out of guys that look like Mr. Universe.

 

The combine is full of gym rats that do nothing in the NFL and vice versa. I think it exists solely to make scouts and executives think the draft is less of a crapshoot than it really is. I really don't think anything in a weight room could predict NFL success. If I had to put any stock in any of it, I would honestly put the interviews at the top of the list.

[HiAndTight]

If teams get crazy and wee see something like 4 QBs go in the top 11, there's no doubt that one of those highly-ranked edge guys, Greedy Williams, one of the stud DTs or Hockenson is going to be there at 12. That has to be the Packers' hope at this point. Either that or one of the QBs is still on the board, and the Dolphins have to overpay to jump into Green Bay's spot.

 

 

I'd have bet everything that there would only be 2 QB's who had a chance of being a 1st round pick and that Kyler would likely be picked in the 20's somewhere after Herbert decided to go back to school for a year. But the more you hear these teams talk aboug these QB's and the reporters who have some credibility, it sounds like you really could have 4 QB's go high in the 1st. Maybe only Murray, Lock and the Ohio State kid in the top 12, but still, that leaves us some talent.

 

Plus, who knows who's gonna do something stupid and go from top 4 pick to the 12th pick like Leremy Tunsil did a few years ago when someone(reportedly his agent or money manager after he dropped them) released a bad pic of him on his instagram.

 

Now we just gotta hope that Bosa or Allen fail a drug test or wear a gas mask that they use to hot box their own heads before the draft!

 

I also hope we're a LITTLE more open about some of the character concerns. Some of these can be pretty siliy. Like Jaylon Ferguson for example. A ideal guy to go from #15-#35, and perhaps higher, but before he even started playing football at La Tech 4 years ago, he got into a fight, pled guilty and had it expunged from his record. Yet he was not allowed to participate in any of the combine events.

 

Tyreke Hill would have sure looked good in GB the past couple years(though I don't know what he did).

 

Take a few risks after the 4th on high upside kids who have gotten into some trouble as long as it wasn't recent, wasn't too bad and they've tried to better themselves.

[HiAndTight]

Yeah, I just don't agree with that at all. The bench press is useless. You would we better off with a power clean test. What's more, the vast majority of an OL or DL's power is coming from his lower body, not his chest. But honestly, I find all of it useless, I think it's interesting HiandTight mentioned wrestling, as I used to wrestle as well in D3. I can't tell you the number of guys that couldn't bench 250 pounds but when it came time to wrestle they were strong as an ox. I look at someone like Ben Askren who is built like a credit card and probably never wastes his time bench pressing, but the guy is crushing watermelons with his hands and beating the crap out of guys that look like Mr. Universe.

 

The combine is full of gym rats that do nothing in the NFL and vice versa.

 

 

EDIT-For everyone else, you can probably skip this post. We're venturing slighly off onto the topic of wrestling which I'm guessing almost nobody but us cares about.

 

 

I wrestled probably about 3 thousand matches in my life and the guys like Ben Askren are the exception. That said, the thing about Ben is he has some of the strongest shoulders and absolutely CAN rep 225 multiple times and more importantly, he has an absurdly strong grip and huge hands. That's what made Ben so good as his technique could get him into trouble, his ability to hang onto that leg and the strength and flexibiity in those shoulders saved him.

 

Watch him wrestle Jake Herbert in the Midlands exhibition match. Askren is flattened out on his stomach time after time and Herbert is got his head stuffed, he's heavy hipping the hell out of him and all that strength and everything is on Askrens hands.

 

Yet.....Johnny Hendricks still couldn't beat Askren because Hendricks was too explosive. What's more, if you know Ben, ask him about his redshirt year at Missouris. He broke down because he KNEW he wasn't physically strong enough to wrestle with these guys. Which is why he revolutionized the sport(he also was in ridiculously good shape).

 

But picking Ben Askren out is like picking out Mugsey Bogues as an example. C'mon. If you wrestled in college, I'm sure you watch the D-1's. You don't see many guys out there build like Askren. Even on Penn State during their runs, those guys are still strong.

 

 

----As for the bench, you're just wrong. It IS EXTREMELY important. I work with a former Badger who was an AA and played in the NFL, is a Strength and Conditioning coach and now helps guys train for football. Now you're right, there are better lifts. A clean and jerk, squats, both better. But I don't know how you can say bench isn't important. Again, you're lower body is extremly important. But when you're engaged, if you don't have the horse power up top to get yoru hands into a guy and knock him back, it doesn't matter how much lower body strength you've got.

 

As for the guys who couldn't bench 250 in college, what, you go to Lawrence or something

 

We had to do a combine of our own and we had to rep 225 and there wasn't a single guy on the team(except this one slob walk on HWT who quit 2 weeks in) who couldn't do at least...5 or 6 and those were usually the 25 pounders.

 

 

Now, I will say this. If we were talking about Wrestling, I would actually agree with you. Your bench in wrestling isn't really that important. Positioning is 10x more important. You need a strong core, hips and mostly shoulders and neck, but I would always screw around with our 41 pounder who was one of the weakest guys on the team, but he was so tough with his positioning, it was hard for me to move him(174-184).

 

But I just don't agree that the same can be said for Football. Again, it doesn't tell the WHOLE story obviously, but it tells a good part of it. They have to use the vertical and long jump to judge the explosiveness in your legs....there are probably better ways.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Pushing barbells off your chest doesn't simulate linemen play though. I think anyone with experience in a combat sport can see this.

 

 

I expect eye rolling because it's John Cena, but regardless, he has a point and he's got a ton of experience in strength training.

 

A bench press really doesn't get you better at much besides bench pressing. I think if tomorrow you went to a wrestling room and drilled for someone doing nothing but hand fighting out of a 3-point stance, you would quickly realize that the first thing to get tired won't be your hands or chest, it's gonna be your legs. Or your lungs. The bench press doesn't really simulate any kind of athletic motion. That's why you've seen so many of these traditional exercises get replaced my functional workouts as sports med has advanced. The NFL is waaaay behind that with its combine drills.

 

The only thing that would stand out to me is if a prospect really bombed the BP test. Yeah, if I had an OL prospect pump 225 10 times, I would be very concerned.

 

Edit: Yeah, I know BA is a freak, but he's just a really extreme example of the point. I was in no way saying he was weak or something. Just that I doubt he has the biggest bench press in the UFC or did in the NCAA.

[xisxisxis]

I don't fall in love with specific players because it is almost impossible to plan what other teams will do, so I look more at the strategy of using the board and position to your advantage (such as trading down to taking the guy you wanted anyways and getting extra pick(s) - like Alexander in 2018).

 

As the draft looks now, I don't see that a stud may drop to us at 12. I think the available talent at 12 would be equal to 15-17 so if things play out as expected (2 QB, top 11 and most of the studs not falling) I would like the packers to trade down a few slots and possibly take Hockenson there and BPA at 30/44.

 

If there is an unexpected run on QB (as HiAndTight mentioned might happen) then it is much more likely we can pick up a stud D/DL/ILB/etc at 12 and the Packers should stay at 12 and pick up the best player that's fallen. Then target Fant at #30 and if he's gone, delay TE to later and pick BPA at 30/44.

 

It's great that the FA signings have really opened up the draft for the Packers. Depending on how it develops on draft night I hope the Packers can get the players they want and add some additional picks by moving around.

 

BTW, what are the best site(s) to go for mock drafts?

[HiAndTight]

Pushing barbells off your chest doesn't simulate linemen play though. I think anyone with experience in a combat sport can see this.

 

 

I expect eye rolling because it's John Cena, but regardless, he has a point and he's got a ton of experience in strength training.

 

A bench press really doesn't get you better at much besides bench pressing. I think if tomorrow you went to a wrestling room and drilled for someone doing nothing but hand fighting out of a 3-point stance, you would quickly realize that the first thing to get tired won't be your hands or chest, it's gonna be your legs. Or your lungs. The bench press doesn't really simulate any kind of athletic motion. That's why you've seen so many of these traditional exercises get replaced my functional workouts as sports med has advanced. The NFL is waaaay behind that with its combine drills.

 

The only thing that would stand out to me is if a prospect really bombed the BP test. Yeah, if I had an OL prospect pump 225 10 times, I would be very concerned.

 

Edit: Yeah, I know BA is a freak, but he's just a really extreme example of the point. I was in no way saying he was weak or something. Just that I doubt he has the biggest bench press in the UFC or did in the NCAA.

 

 

Of course you're getting eye rolling from me. Nobody is saying that Bench Press is a great determining factor in how good of a football player you're going to be. It's one of SEVERAL tests. As I've said, I've trained with Badgers who've played in the league and worked with a Badgers who became a Strength and Conditioning coach at UW and then transitioned to helping athletes life for their sport. Bench press was one of the most important excercises.

 

But just taking it alone means nothing. It's just an additional test. It's ONE factor that they use among dozens to evaluate a player.

 

You said it was completely worthless and now you're suggesting that I'm putting a LOT of stock into it. I'm not. I am saying it's important. Hell, a better life would be doing 200 pounds using dumbells to see how strong you are and how strong your stabalizing muscles are. But they can only do so much.

 

 

And with respect, I'm FULLY aware of how tiring wrestling is. Again, I wrestled for 22 years, in over half the states and 10 other countries. I don't understand what you mean by handfighting in a 3 point stance, but wrestling and handfighting, yes, my neck would get tired, my legs, my shoulders and my lungs, all before my chest. But I've arleady conceded that it's not really important in wrestling. Unless all you do is cradle a guy, ala Jeff Jaggers, it may be important, but it's well behind shoulders, neck, back, legs, core.

 

But we're talking about football. And football isn't behind, football training is on the cutting edge. The Combine however can't put 300 people through extensive workouts to see how much they clean and jerk or how many reps they can do at 200 with dumbells.

 

 

They just want to know what you alluded to. Is a guy weak. Not everyone has to bench over 500 pounds like Richie Incognito, but if a MLB'er can't put up 225 5 times, that's a problem. If a WR'er can't, that's a problem.

 

It's far more of a pass/fail. Getting 38 like Bandon Williams is fine, but they want to make sure that you're strong ENOUGH to not get rag dolled out there.

 

By the way, I've sat in the chair while I had family that wrestled Askren 8 or 9 times. Askren won 2 of them.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I would mostly agree then on it being pass/fail. I think it's entirely useless if a guy does it 23 times or 51, which I believe is the record (that guy did nothing in the NFL).

 

When I say hand fighting out of a 3-pt stance, I meant just basically mimicking what an OL/DL does most of the time; his break off the line and first move/counter are generally most important, and those are made better by athleticism, not bench pressing.

 

I'm biased here, but what would attract me to an OL/DL more than any weight test, honestly? If he had a wrestling background. No, I wouldn't draft a 160 #er to play line in the NFL, but if a prospect had that background it would make him very attractive to me. They would have such an advanced knowledge of getting people off balance and relying on things other than strength. There seems to be a really disproportionate number of them playing on the lines in the NFL which doesn't surprise me at all.

[HiAndTight]

I don't fall in love with specific players because it is almost impossible to plan what other teams will do, so I look more at the strategy of using the board and position to your advantage (such as trading down to taking the guy you wanted anyways and getting extra pick(s) - like Alexander in 2018).

 

As the draft looks now, I don't see that a stud may drop to us at 12. I think the available talent at 12 would be equal to 15-17 so if things play out as expected (2 QB, top 11 and most of the studs not falling) I would like the packers to trade down a few slots and possibly take Hockenson there and BPA at 30/44.

 

If there is an unexpected run on QB (as HiAndTight mentioned might happen) then it is much more likely we can pick up a stud D/DL/ILB/etc at 12 and the Packers should stay at 12 and pick up the best player that's fallen. Then target Fant at #30 and if he's gone, delay TE to later and pick BPA at 30/44.

 

It's great that the FA signings have really opened up the draft for the Packers. Depending on how it develops on draft night I hope the Packers can get the players they want and add some additional picks by moving around.

 

BTW, what are the best site(s) to go for mock drafts?

 

 

 

Back to the good stuff. I can't tell you a good site. You go to NFL network and it has guys going late in the 2nd that ESPN has going in the top 15...I just look at a lot of them and try to get a full idea. One I just saw had Greedy Williams falling to 23rd. If that happens....there will have to be some La'ael Collins story behind it. He's just waaay too talented.

 

I'm with you though, there's a goup, maybe 8 or 9 deep of really elite talents. If a Sweat, Oliver or Williams drops, nab 'em. If not, hope that one team loves Lock and move down 5-6 spots. Maybe you get another 1st next yera for your trouble.

 

But last year was a perfect storm. They traded back, they were going to pick Alexander anyway apparently(though they say that now, I bet Davenport was in consideration) and they got the stud they wanted. In the King draft, unless he becomes a stud, they should have just dont the obvious and drafted the Wisconsin guy with the Brother who's challenging Reggie as the GOAT defensively.

 

But yeah, maybe they drop back, they pick up Hockenson, a WR'er, Campell perhaps and then Fant with the 30th pick.

 

Still plenty of defense available on day 2 and 3.

 

 

I still would love to see a guy like Sweat, someone who can be the next Von Miller type be there at 12. Or even Ed Oliver(or as I've said, Grady Williams).

 

Speaking of bad mock drafts, this one doesn't even have Williams as a 1st, and another one I just saw had two Alabama RB's in the 1st.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001022837/article/charles-davis-2019-nfl-mock-draft-10-steelers-fill-ab-void

[HiAndTight]

I would mostly agree then on it being pass/fail. I think it's entirely useless if a guy does it 23 times or 51, which I believe is the record (that guy did nothing in the NFL).

 

When I say hand fighting out of a 3-pt stance, I meant just basically mimicking what an OL/DL does most of the time; his break off the line and first move/counter are generally most important, and those are made better by athleticism, not bench pressing.

 

I'm biased here, but what would attract me to an OL/DL more than any weight test, honestly? If he had a wrestling background. No, I wouldn't draft a 160 #er to play line in the NFL, but if a prospect had that background it would make him very attractive to me. They would have such an advanced knowledge of getting people off balance and relying on things other than strength. There seems to be a really disproportionate number of them playing on the lines in the NFL which doesn't surprise me at all.

 

 

I don't think it's bias, you see guys like Stephen Neal who never played football go from a National Champ to an NFL player for the Pats and have a really good career because he knows how to use his hands to handfight, and he knows about leverage.

 

Kenny Clark, Mike Daniels both wrestled. Zietler's old man asked me to come work out with him when he started wrestling as Wisconsin Lutheran. I don't know if it was flattery or not(I'm guessing it was) but he said it goes him the scholarship to UW. There is no sport that can better prepare you for playing on the OL or DL than Wrestling.

 

Brock Lesner wasn't even very athletic and he almost made a Vikings team.

 

 

But I agree. It's not going to tell you if a guy is strong, it's really just gonna tell you if he's weak. I'd want a Tackle to be able to get up 20 at least(some have those 35 inch arms though, that's tough. A guard 25, a DT 25, a Edge 20-ish, MLB'er 15-20, WR'er 5-8, CB-10 or so. As long as they can do that many, I wouldn't have concerns.

 

There'll never be able to come up with a fool proof way of doing it though. Jason Spriggs was explosive as hell and crushed his combine, but a guy can get inside on him and just walk him back to the QB.

[HiAndTight]

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/2019/01/29/2019-nfl-mock-draft-7-rounds-dwayne-haskins-kyler-murray-nick-bosa-quinnen-williams/2/

 

 

This mock isn't TERRIBLE. It does have us passing on Sweat, Greedy and a couple other studs for Polite and Hockenson going in the 2nd just in front of David Edwards....so like all of them, grain of salt.

[xisxisxis]

This mock isn't TERRIBLE.

 

Looks like that was from end of January before the bad performance of Polite at the combine. There was a recent version on USAtoday that I found last night which was updated for early FA moves.

 

I was in B&N and read the Athlon (sp?) and Sporting News draft issues/mags which both were early picks. Not sure how reliable either publication is based on past drafts. Maybe 538 can do a weighted ranking based on sites which could have more value.

[brewcrewdue80]

The mock site I look at is WalterFootball.com. They have mocks in place for 2020 and 2021 already. Lots of insight.

 

Only thing at the moment is the last Mock was on the 13th. So the homepage mocks us Clenin Ferrell a DE/OLB as replacing Clay Matthews departure. Followed by a S

Another Mock on 3/11 has us taking Jonah Williams a G/OT. And a S at 30 replacing HHCD.

 

So I'd say that these mocks for 30 aren't taking in to account Amos' addition

 

I'd think a well thought out Mock will be their next update and take more of a grain of salt towards.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't watch a lick of NCAA sports other than wrestling, so I really have no opinion on any players. But I wouldn't surprised or opposed if they went with another edge rusher. You really can't have enough of them. If I were a betting man I would put money one of those first rounders being a TE though. If I still agree with Ted Thompson on anything, the draft really should be BPA all the time outside of QB.