Kimbrel?

[Brew crew 92]

They have a plan. These guys have proven to be much smarter baseball people than any of us, so I'm inclined to trust them.

 

Ok, much smarter than us a given.

 

But how much a plan can you have when your two closers down just in the last 3 weeks. One last week. Am Curious to see how Counsell handles this pen.

 

Albers and Barmes both closed games last year. Claudio was a closer for part of the 2017 season. Alex Wilson has a bit of experience closing. If Hader was a closer, he'd probably be the best in baseball. They have options. Obviously, Knebel is a very tough loss for however long he's out. It will likely be a committee situation and Hader will probably have plenty of 2 inning saves coming his way.

 

If the Brewers like the way the rotation is looking, I think it's plausible that they could ease Nelson back in a pen role this year, and if so, he might end up being a high leverage option.

 

Nelson idea with his stuff and demeanor ace closer the day he goes to pen. But in all likelihood he gonna be building up his arm, gonna be a month or two at the earliest. Albers maybe, the rest terrible options. Let’s not blow this. If we knew jeffress was gonna be last years jeffress outside of his overused self(1st 68 innings) then just need to get thru April. But what if he’s not ok. We need to trade for closer/high lev arm now, plus sign Kimbrel if we can get him for the pillow.

 

And if the good jj comes back, we have a superpen and win 100+ and the pennant.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

Nelson idea with his stuff and demeanor ace closer the day he goes to pen. But in all likelihood he gonna be building up his arm, gonna be a month or two at the earliest. Albers maybe, the rest terrible options. Let’s not blow this. If we knew jeffress was gonna be last years jeffress outside of his overused self(1st 68 innings) then just need to get thru April. But what if he’s not ok. We need to trade for closer/high lev arm now, plus sign Kimbrel if we can get him for the pillow.

 

And if the good jj comes back, we have a superpen and win 100+ and the pennant.

 

I've been in the same situation you are on this board. You believe in what you are saying so much that you are actually getting mad that everyone isn't agreeing with you. Let me tell you from experience, that is never going to work out like you hope. It's baseball, and there is going to be different opinions on how you win. As long as you present those opinions in a respectful manner, and not get upset or condescend those who disagree or have an alternative opinion, things will be fine. It's obvious in this case that you are viewing the current bullpen situation as much more dire than a lot of other posters here. That's fine ... just be careful telling posters what they "need" to think. Trust me, I've been that guy.

[Brew crew 92]

 

Nelson idea with his stuff and demeanor ace closer the day he goes to pen. But in all likelihood he gonna be building up his arm, gonna be a month or two at the earliest. Albers maybe, the rest terrible options. Let’s not blow this. If we knew jeffress was gonna be last years jeffress outside of his overused self(1st 68 innings) then just need to get thru April. But what if he’s not ok. We need to trade for closer/high lev arm now, plus sign Kimbrel if we can get him for the pillow.

 

And if the good jj comes back, we have a superpen and win 100+ and the pennant.

 

I've been in the same situation you are on this board. You believe in what you are saying so much that you are actually getting mad that everyone isn't agreeing with you. Let me tell you from experience, that is never going to work out like you hope. It's baseball, and there is going to be different opinions on how you win. As long as you present those opinions in a respectful manner, and not get upset or condescend those who disagree or have an alternative opinion, things will be fine. It's obvious in this case that you are viewing the current bullpen situation as much more dire than a lot of other posters here. That's fine ... just be careful telling posters what they "need" to think. Trust me, I've been that guy.

 

Ok

I’ll try to be more cognizant of peoples feelings.

 

I will say this, listening to mlb radio right now, Steve Phillips and Eduardo Perez can’t believe Brewers not doing anything with their pen. Everybody outside of brewerland knows brewers pen in trouble. National big market biased talking heads ignorant of things Milwaukee, except in this case.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

Nelson idea with his stuff and demeanor ace closer the day he goes to pen. But in all likelihood he gonna be building up his arm, gonna be a month or two at the earliest. Albers maybe, the rest terrible options. Let’s not blow this. If we knew jeffress was gonna be last years jeffress outside of his overused self(1st 68 innings) then just need to get thru April. But what if he’s not ok. We need to trade for closer/high lev arm now, plus sign Kimbrel if we can get him for the pillow.

 

And if the good jj comes back, we have a superpen and win 100+ and the pennant.

 

I've been in the same situation you are on this board. You believe in what you are saying so much that you are actually getting mad that everyone isn't agreeing with you. Let me tell you from experience, that is never going to work out like you hope. It's baseball, and there is going to be different opinions on how you win. As long as you present those opinions in a respectful manner, and not get upset or condescend those who disagree or have an alternative opinion, things will be fine. It's obvious in this case that you are viewing the current bullpen situation as much more dire than a lot of other posters here. That's fine ... just be careful telling posters what they "need" to think. Trust me, I've been that guy.

 

Ok

I’ll try to be more cognizant of peoples feelings.

 

I will say this, listening to mlb radio right now, Steve Phillips and Eduardo Perez can’t believe Brewers not doing anything with their pen. Everybody outside of brewerland knows brewers pen in trouble. National big market biased talking heads ignorant of things Milwaukee, except in this case.

 

Just remember, those same talking heads admonished the Brewers for not doing more to help their rotation last year, saying they were wasting a prime opportunity to get to the playoffs. We all know how that turned out. Those guys are wrong, A lot. Just because you happen to agree with what they are saying now doesn't mean it's any more right. THere's also a reason why Steve Philips is no longer running an MLB team ... and overpaying in panic moves is ironically one of them.

[coolhandluke121]

I think they young starters will pick up the slack early in the season. Unfortunately that means burning up a lot of their innings, but at least it buys them some time to improve the bullpen. I'm not real optimistic about Knebel and Jeffress, but I honestly would be a little nervous about Kimbrel too, and he'd cost about 5-10x as much depending on years.

[Brew crew 92]

They wrong all things Milwaukee agree. But even a blind squirrel.....

[adambr2]

I'm guessing also they are going to try to mix and match quite a bit with their extreme split relievers. Righties have a career .558 OPS off Taylor Williams and lefties have a career .498 OPS off Claudio.

[pacopete4]

[sarcasm]Steve Phillips said we should get pen help? Oh, I really hope Stearns was tuned in that day. We are in trouble![/sarcasm]

[Brew crew 92]

I'm guessing also they are going to try to mix and match quite a bit with their extreme split relievers. Righties have a career .558 OPS off Taylor Williams and lefties have a career .498 OPS off Claudio.

 

Yes, good point with matchups.

Albers the key here for sure, if we get last years before he got hurt Albers that’s helpful, if not gonna be tough sledding.

 

I so hope one or two of Albers Barnes Wilson Williams rises to the occasion.

[JosephC]

If I was Kimbrel (goes for Keuchel too), I'd be telling my agent that I'd have a major league contract by next Friday, and if that doesn't happen, then I'd be looking for different representation.

[BuckyBrewer61]

Friend of a friend has a connection with the Brewers, claimed the Brewers offered Kimbrel 2years/$20mil. Kimbrel’s agent countered with 6years/$100mil. Brewers said they’d go as high as 3/$30, but Kimbrel’s counter offer basically ended negotiations on the spot.

 

Kimbrel is going to need to come waaaay down on expectations if he wants to be paid to play baseball this year.

[Fear The Chorizo]

If I was Kimbrel (goes for Keuchel too), I'd be telling my agent that I'd have a major league contract by next Friday, and if that doesn't happen, then I'd be looking for different representation.

 

Agreed - only thing I'd add is I would've been telling my agent about 2 weeks into spring training that they had a week to get a deal done, not wait all the way until now.

 

I see no way how 30-31 year old FA pitchers benefit from trying to wait out a market to this degree that obviously doesn't price them in the same stratosphere as what their current representation is demanding. Trains have left the station and these guys are stuck arguing at the ticket counter over seat assignments.

 

When I read that article early winter about Kimbrel's agent throwing out him being the 1st $100M reliever I about fell off my chair - if that was their actual counter to a Brewers' 2 yr $20M offer in mid March, that is hysterically poor representation.

[xisxisxis]

Friend of a friend has a connection with the Brewers, claimed the Brewers offered Kimbrel 2years/$20mil. Kimbrel’s agent countered with 6years/$100mil.

I could see the response to the brewers offer if it was a straight 2 year/$20M or $10M AAV. That's insulting after giving a top 5 catcher $20M for 1 year, while Kimbrel is probably top 4 in baseball for closers. Now if the Brewers were doing a similar deal to Grandal, then I think Kimbrel should have taken it as that's likely what he will eventually sign for.

 

Brewers said they’d go as high as 3/$30, but Kimbrel’s counter offer basically ended negotiations on the spot.

That tells me (if true) that the Brewers really weren't serious about signing Kimbrel. Kimbrel isn't going to sign for that little over multiple years. He can wait for the contender who loses multiple bullpen arms to come calling - it happens almost every year.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Friend of a friend has a connection with the Brewers, claimed the Brewers offered Kimbrel 2years/$20mil. Kimbrel’s agent countered with 6years/$100mil.

I could see the response to the brewers offer if it was a straight 2 year/$20M or $10M AAV. That's insulting after giving a top 5 catcher $20M for 1 year, while Kimbrel is probably top 4 in baseball for closers. Now if the Brewers were doing a similar deal to Grandal, then I think Kimbrel should have taken it as that's likely what he will eventually sign for.

 

Brewers said they’d go as high as 3/$30, but Kimbrel’s counter offer basically ended negotiations on the spot.

That tells me (if true) that the Brewers really weren't serious about signing Kimbrel. Kimbrel isn't going to sign for that little over multiple years. He can wait for the contender who loses multiple bullpen arms to come calling - it happens almost every year.

 

Grandal playing 120+ games at catcher and providing offense to his career norms is at least twice as valuable to a ballclub in terms of actual wins on the field compared to what the very best closer in baseball can provide over 1 season (appearing in roughly 1/2 as many games and racking up ~45 saves over 65 IP).

 

If a Brewers' 2 yr, $20M offer truly is insulting, then what about the other 29 teams who have apparently offered his camp either nothing or a less palatable deal? What's kind of insulting is starting at $100M and expecting your phone to start ringing off the hook from GMs chomping at the bit to pay that much - only to hear crickets for 3 months and then counter with that same amount to seemingly the first offer you get of any substance.

 

Oh, and the Brewers appear to be said contender who have lost multiple bullpen arms (to both injury and this year's starting rotation) that came calling...

[adambr2]

Friend of a friend has a connection with the Brewers, claimed the Brewers offered Kimbrel 2years/$20mil. Kimbrel’s agent countered with 6years/$100mil. Brewers said they’d go as high as 3/$30, but Kimbrel’s counter offer basically ended negotiations on the spot.

 

Kimbrel is going to need to come waaaay down on expectations if he wants to be paid to play baseball this year.

 

I'm pretty skeptical of this one. I don't think Stearns is the kind of guy to waste his time and that line of negotiating sounds like a big waste of time.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Friend of a friend has a connection with the Brewers, claimed the Brewers offered Kimbrel 2years/$20mil. Kimbrel’s agent countered with 6years/$100mil. Brewers said they’d go as high as 3/$30, but Kimbrel’s counter offer basically ended negotiations on the spot.

 

Kimbrel is going to need to come waaaay down on expectations if he wants to be paid to play baseball this year.

 

I'm pretty skeptical of this one. I don't think Stearns is the kind of guy to waste his time and that line of negotiating sounds like a big waste of time.

 

Yeah, no disrespect to the poster who shared this, but I'm not buying this one at all. Those numbers on the Brewers side don't make any sense. And the Kimbrel number that was used has been widely reported.

[brewmann04]

It would be nice at this point for him to sign with anyone so we can move on . I thought we were going to add him but now really have no clue what going on.

[SeaBass]

If I was Kimbrel (goes for Keuchel too), I'd be telling my agent that I'd have a major league contract by next Friday, and if that doesn't happen, then I'd be looking for different representation.

He could have a contract in the next 30 seconds, it would probably just not be one he'd like.

 

Agents do what their clients tell them to. Let's not lose sight of that. Some players have the stomach to wait teams out, some don't.

 

Kimbrel is holding out for more years/money because that's what Kimbrel wants to do.

[Warning Track Power]

If Kimbrel truly wants 6 years $100 million still then he will be waiting the rest of his life. That ship has sailed. If I were his agent, I am HOPING 4 years $60-$70 is still realistic. Count me as one of those who has a hard time believing the Brewers offered only $10 million per as that is significantly less than what his rumored 6 year $100 million ($16.7 m per) ask was. At this point in the offseason, 1 year at $18-$20 or 3 years $50-60 seem to be about right.

[xisxisxis]

Grandal playing 120+ games at catcher and providing offense to his career norms is at least twice as valuable to a ballclub in terms of actual wins on the field compared to what the very best closer in baseball can provide over 1 season (appearing in roughly 1/2 as many games and racking up ~45 saves over 65 IP).

 

If a Brewers' 2 yr, $20M offer truly is insulting, then what about the other 29 teams who have apparently offered his camp either nothing or a less palatable deal? What's kind of insulting is starting at $100M and expecting your phone to start ringing off the hook from GMs chomping at the bit to pay that much - only to hear crickets for 3 months and then counter with that same amount to seemingly the first offer you get of any substance.

 

Oh, and the Brewers appear to be said contender who have lost multiple bullpen arms (to both injury and this year's starting rotation) that came calling...

I'm not advocating that he's worth a lot of money - I agree that paying a lot for 65-70IP isn't valuable. My take (which may not have been clear) was more as to why Kimbrel and his representation would not take/like that offer. The likely thinking by Kimbrel is that there will be a contending team that during the season loses several bullpen arms and will be desperate for his services (and I don't think the Brewers are that desperate team unless both Jeffress and Knebel miss significant time). I think that's a "Greg Holland" strategy for Kimbrel to take and we see how well that worked out for both sides. I really doubt that Kimbrel sits out the season. I think some team will come up with a one year deal at high AAV to get him signed. Kimbrel may still want some team to fork over $100M, but that ship has sailed. I don't think it's insulting for them to expect that, just really stupid given the current market. It took me 4+ months to sell my house in a very good area in the SoCal market because nobody was willing to pay close to what I wanted. But I reduced my expectations slightly and waited for the right buyer and they came. It remains to be seen if Kimbrel has reduced his expectations...

[pacopete4]

My theory is he’s hurt and buying as much time as he can.

[Brew crew 92]

2 yrs 20 IS total low ball

 

1 yr 18.5 plus 2 mil buyout saves face> signs

 

If those reports are true all the Brewers have done up to this point is annoy him > sad

[BuckyBrewer61]

Yeah, no disrespect to the poster who shared this, but I'm not buying this one at all. Those numbers on the Brewers side don't make any sense. And the Kimbrel number that was used has been widely reported.

 

No offense taken at all - like I said friend of a friend, so I’m not sure if I believe it either. Figured it interesting enough to throw out there either way. But the *supposed* source is someone that would absolutely know what was offered.

[mattyo]

Well surely the Knebel news going official hasn't helped our leverage if these talks were ongoing at all. Still don't think it happens, but am not totally against it. EDIT: For the record, I really don't think there is any need to panic spend. Id rather let the season, or consider other relief options.

[JosephC]

Yeah, no disrespect to the poster who shared this, but I'm not buying this one at all. Those numbers on the Brewers side don't make any sense. And the Kimbrel number that was used has been widely reported.

 

No offense taken at all - like I said friend of a friend, so I’m not sure if I believe it either. Figured it interesting enough to throw out there either way. But the *supposed* source is someone that would absolutely know what was offered.

 

I find it hard to believe too. The Brewers wouldn't have even been sure at the time if Knebel was going to be out for two years or just two months. Why would they have jumped in with any multi-year offer that late in the off-season when there still was complete uncertainty with Knebel?

 

I don't doubt the Brewers make an official offer but a two year offer just seems odd considering the timing. Now that Knebel is definitely out for this year and perhaps a big chunk of next year, now it would make sense if the Brewers threw a two-year offer out there.

 

For equal money, I'd still rather have Keuchel and then kick Woodruff or Burnes to the bullpen. But Boras is probably in 5 year, 125 million dollar dreamland with Keuchel.